Interview with Todd Fixler

Foreign.

Welcome to Punk Loving Compassion.

Today I'm interviewing Todd.

I've known Todd for a while, 15 years, give or take.

I met Todd through the collecting community versus the punk community.

But he and I just happen to have the music part in common as well.

And just we became friends over that and seeing each other through that, but we haven't seen each other in a couple years.

Minute.

Yeah.

So I'm glad I get to see you today, my friend.

Well, you as well.

Thank you.

Todd has been going to shows since

early 94 or 93.

Cool.

And yeah, so.

So a while.

A minute, as kids say.

And you're also a photographer, right?

Yes.

Cool.

Yep, yep.

As well as being many, many other awesome things.

Before we get into this, just want to remind everybody.

One, I'm not a professional.

I'm not a professional podcaster or a journalist or anything that you probably expect out of listening to a podcast.

I'm not that, but I'm working on it.

I'm working on getting better.

I'm working on editing.

So hopefully, you know, as we get through this journey, things will improve and I might become a pretend professional at some point in time, but I'm not there yet.

Also, be nice to each other and we're going to get started.

So, Todd, do you want to say anything about yourself before we get into this?

Like introduce yourself any further than I did?

You don't have to.

I think.

You think you covered my bases.

I've been doing fatigue kind of in the music scene for probably like 15, 20 years now.

And I'm sure we'll.

It'll kind of cross over into kind of what we discussed kind of moving forward with the ballet shows and whatnot.

And then, yeah, they.

You did great.

Very professional sounding.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Also, I do have a child and I also have two relatively large dogs, so they, they may appear in the background from time to time.

I usually keep the dogs outside during the podcast, but it's raining, so I have them inside.

One likes to try to climb in my lap from time to time, so hopefully she won't.

But just giving everybody a heads up, it might happen.

Okay, so start the interview.

Question number A.

Do you remember what the first punk esque song you ever heard was?

I'm pretty sure it was the.

The one that that sticks out to me is the Ramones and it was actually the song from the movie Pet Sematary.

That's the one I remember.

It's not a bad start.

I never kind of associated them with punk rock and Punk, they were just the Ramones.

They were ubiquitous.

But kind of when I got more into punk rock and saw their influence, their influence was insurmountable.

It was amazing.

My journey into punk rock was kind of trying it a little bit and then metal and then trying a little bit and then kind of you had grunge, like 91, 92.

It was probably around like 93, 94 when I got exposed to not just like Offspring and Green Day, but like Bad Religion and pretty much everything on, like, Epitaph and like Pennywise and then Nofax and by Nofex and everything on, like, Fat Records.

When those bands came to town, the bands that they brought with them were the ones that was like, oh, is this like, they're the first man playing?

And they were by far the best band that night.

And so bands like I saw and then like, no Use for a Name and the Riverdales and all very, very early.

And by seeing like, these big shows with those bands opening when they came back to town and they were headlining like a dive bar, that was kind of how I got really into the punk scene was like, oh, man.

Me and 50 of my closest friends get to like, watch this incredible band, no play and then kind of hang out and then have drinks afterwards or.

Or my case water because.

Because I was like.

I was like 15, 16 at this time.

But it was kind of education into.

You have this one kind of kind of headliner.

And then every band that they brought with them was incredible.

Everyone.

So.

So, yeah, so that's kind of how I.

It just kind of built and built and built.

And at the time, Epitaph bands had a.

Had a sound.

Fat Rec bands had a sound.

And then I eventually got into like, Revelation bands.

And at that time it was like, like Far side and Texas is the Reason and like Sensefield and.

And Quicksand and that sort of had.

Had a vibe.

So just the record label, by virtue of the fact of it being on a record label, you would pick up the.

The cassette or the CD not knowing the band at all, and it would just sort of kind of build from there.

So it was a great time for me personally, because it was very pre Internet, so you had to kind of just like, oh, Wishing Well Records.

Okay, I'll check that out.

Skiing.

That's pretty awesome.

I'll check that out.

And Discord, obviously.

Well, well.

And like you said at the time, you know, a lot of labels had a sound.

So pretty much if you.

If you heard one band on label, you knew you Were going to like, you know, chances are you're going to like the rest of them.

You know, you mentioned Epitaph and Fat Rack, but also like, like Victory had a sound, you know, I think off the top of my head, the only real label around at the time that didn't necessarily have a sound, and you can disagree with me if you want, was like initial records.

Yeah.

Like they had Ink and Dagger, the, the Vampire band from, from Philly.

But then they also had like Despair.

Right.

Just, you know, both, you know, still like quote unquote, hardcore or whatever, but very different sounds.

Agreed.

Sorry, I, I interjected.

No, no, not at all.

Train of thought.

So I mean to, to answer your, your question kind of long windedly how I went from kind of my first kind of punk band exposure, which was the Ramones, and then kind of just how it built and built and built and built and which brings us here to this day because I'm still, that, I'm still that guy kind of seeing those bands and kind of watching the openers and I still see like bands that blow me away and they're like in their 20s and you're just like incredible.

So it's it.

So anyone listening, get there early and watch the opening band.

And like I still, still going to shows.

I find so many amazing people by watching the opening band, you know, like you're paying for the whole show.

Watch the whole show.

Agreed.

A couple years ago I went to see Lucero and they had a person opening for them who I'd never heard of at the time.

And she was this sort of Americana esque, touching on outlaw country a little bit.

And her name is Jade Jackson.

And I'm watching her and I was like, she is just spectacular.

I actually liked that night.

I liked her a lot more than I liked Lucero.

But through watching her like her like guitarist, I was like, God, that guy looks really familiar but I can't like put my finger on it.

And I was like, God, that guy looks like, looks like Mike, like a young Mike Ness.

That guy looks like a young Mike Ness.

And I was watching and then like, you know, after the show, went up and talked to him.

It was Mike Ness's son.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

But regardless, not taking away from Jay Jackson.

Jay Jackson is spectacular and I highly recommend checking her out, but I would have never found her if I wouldn't have done this, you know.

But also, and I realize that's not sort of punk umbrella type stuff.

But yeah, so many bands out there that you will Never learn of or hear if you don't watch all of the bands.

Agreed.

So at what point in time do you remember, at what point in time you went from like, consuming to participating and, and then as, as, as an extra side, like, from consuming to participating to belonging.

So by participating, do you mean like with my photography stuff or just.

However you want to define that question is up to you.

So the belonging part was.

Was, you know, in participating was all I want to say, like 94, 95, when I was kind of going to those smaller shows and kind of seeing like, what would end up being huge bands now.

Like, like, I remember AFI being like the first band at like a tiny, like 100 cap club.

But they were playing, I think with like good riddance, maybe 88 figures.

Louis.

Like, like the lineup would be stacked now and they're just doing like a tiny tour, but going to like mall show like that.

And then knowing everybody in the crowd, everybody knows your name, everybody has like their arms around each other, singing the songs together and just a real tight sense of community.

And then just kind of, like I said, hanging out before, after, not just with the bands, but with kind of each other.

And so that part was.

Was readily apparent in that scene.

I was very, very lucky to kind of be.

Kind of be in that place in that time.

And then in participating, I. I always brought like a point and shoot to shows.

Like a point and shoot camera.

I was not good.

That was not good at all.

But over time, band, Bands.

Yeah.

So you were, you had a point and click.

Yes.

So my, My point and shoot camera, I was quite terrible.

But bands like pictures, especially again, pre Internet.

So like.

And at this point in time, it was also on film, so it was pre digital.

But with every, you know, few dozen photos that I would take a hand, a handful would come out.

Okay.

And bands would always want like, just copies.

And so I was like, oh, that's kind of fun.

Really didn't think anything of it.

But as kind of the 90s kind of progressed and a camera got a little bit better, et cetera.

Like, and I'm speaking over the course of 10 years at that point, 10, 15 years, as my equipment got better and the lights in the venue got better, my photos got much, much better.

And that was kind of what I felt like was my contribution to the scene.

I was.

I am not a songwriter.

I doodle on a guitar.

Like, I love, I love music.

Music is all consuming for me, but I'm.

I.

My contribution is, is not going to be writing songs it's going to be taking pictures and, and you know, creating art that way.

And I've, I've been relatively successful in the sense that people seem to like some of them, so that's awesome.

So I'm stoked.

Nice.

Well, yeah, and I think participation is different for everybody.

One of the things I would like to accomplish with this podcast is that because most zines or most however people consume interviews these days, podcasts, whatever, you know, you're dealing with bands, right?

And having those bands being the driver of the scene and yeah, like, obviously the music, the bands are important, but there's so many other ways to participate and contribute.

That's not making music, you know, so whether it be putting shows on, taking pictures, giving bands a place to sleep, just going to shows, making art, doing whatever, like, you know, we, we all play a role in the greater quote unquote scene and, and contributing to it and making it stronger.

Right.

And that's one of the things I'd really like to explore with this is, is how else do people contribute in a beneficial way that are.

That's often, you know, over overlooked or taken for granted.

I, you just kind of jogged my memory there.

I did a zine in like 96, 97.

And it was kind of cool back then because you didn't or I mean, you could have gone through a publicist, I guess, but most cases you just went to a show and got there a little bit earlier.

And in my one issue, because that, because I graduated high school and, and moved in my one issue, this is my senior year, I had Bad Religion Strung out in Voodoo Glow Skill Set in my zine.

And it was, every one of them was just, hey, can I interview you for my zine?

And every one of them, you know, and this was again, like, I think 96.

They were all like, sure.

And I would have these, you know, an hour long conversation with, with Greg Graffin in like a back room somewhere at like prior to a show.

It was awesome.

They were super accommodating.

So to your point, you know, a great way to, to try to, you know, contribute and participate in a scene certainly would be to kind of amplify some of these kind of smaller bands and kind of give them a platform because right now, and I don't know if you agree with, with the Internet and with kind of social media, it, it's almost the opposite now.

It is so chaotic and trying to kind of cut through that noise for anybody who's creating art is, I imagine, quite difficult now.

Yeah, it is and also consumption is different and I'm guilty of it.

You know, when I was younger, at first, getting into it, I loved buying an album and holding it in my hand and I would go to whatever my home was at the time and, and listen to it and just, and, and listen to it and go through the lyrics and go through the liner notes and just, just consume it.

And I found out, like, I found out about so many other bands that way and zines and everything just through that, through those liner notes and just the way, you know, that happened.

And now it's that consumption is very different with streaming, right?

And since that conversation, I've been trying to change my consumption again back to that, like, let's listen to entire albums and not just whatever you know pops up next, right?

To be more purposeful with, with the consumption.

And so one of the first people I did that with it, I mean, it was just this weird universal thing was Kimia Dawson.

Nice.

And, and I became familiar with Kim Adasa, as I'm sure a lot of people did through Juno.

Juno soundtrack.

And so I liked it.

Like, I was like, oh, you know, this is cool, you know, but it's all this sort of like happy sing songy stuff, right?

Not knocking it at all.

I liked it, but I just assumed all of her stuff was like that.

And so like I said, a couple weeks ago, had a conversation with this other band, decided to try to change how I'm consuming things.

And one of my social media feeds, she popped up and had just made

a shirt and it said it was

sort of like this hand drawn shirt.

And it said something along the lines like, tear this racist, racist, fascist system down or something like that.

So I was like, hey, you know what?

It's time for me to do a deep dive into Kimmy Dawson.

And holy hell, my assumptions of her were so wrong.

And she, like, she has those, those happy sing songy songs.

She has songs about like farts and going to the library and her favorite book's a library and peeing her pants and whatever.

But she also has these really deep, emotional, like, killer, just amazing songs that I would have never found out about without, like, okay, I'm gonna go through and listen to an entire album, like album by album and just explore this entire thing that I have neglected.

And I've done that with a couple other bands since as well.

And through doing that process, I have found that I'm enjoying music more.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Sorry, I just totally hijacked your.

Your thing on Tangent.

This is A conversation.

I love it.

Yeah, but, yeah, but zines.

I, I, I did a zine as well.

And yeah, you know, it's time you just like, you know, wrote a band or saw a band live, like, hey, want to do an interview?

And like, yeah, sure.

No, but most bands were pretty into it.

And then, you know, for me, I just went to like Kinko's and, and I knew how to, how to jig the, the copiers at Kinko, so it wouldn't charge me as much, you know, so I'd use all their paper, you know, double, double print everything, use their stapler, put it all together.

I'd make, you know, 50 of them and Yep.

Go at hand about at shows.

Right.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I would never do that.

Yeah, definitely not Kinko's or Office Depot.

Yeah, it was a great way and to your point, kind of participate.

And I didn't really equate that initially when we were talking about that, but yeah, no, it was fun.

It was a lot of work that was, I would give anything for somebody to transcribe my interviews.

That was the, that was the worst part.

I, it was tedious and awful, but it was, it was a great experience and it definitely fed into my kind of photography from that, from that perspective of just not really being afraid to ask.

Just to ask.

The worst thing that anyone can do is just say no.

Yeah, most people are fucking cool.

And they recognize, they see it like, especially if, you know, in high school or in their, like, late teens.

I would say by far the most like, common question I get is, how do you get into like concert photography?

And my answer is the same for everyone to local shows and bring a camera.

And just because those local bands love having their picture taken, they want that content.

You can get better and kind of learn what works and what doesn't work.

So kind of just starting off in the beginning and just kind of enjoying it and then eventually you'll kind of find somebody who can kind of help you and answer your questions and then you'll, you can be that person, you know, a little bit further down the line for somebody else.

Yeah, it develops like a, almost like a, like an unintentional mentorship program.

Exactly.

You know, and I've def.

And I've definitely had people do that for me early on, for sure.

I literally did not know what aperture and F stop was at all.

I'm sitting there showing up with like an slr.

I'm like, what does this button do?

And they were Infinitely patient with me.

And we're just like, oh, no, it's, you know, here.

It's the amount of light that's, like, coming in.

Speed is shutter.

So rather than kind of like, kind of, kind of doing one of these, what are you doing?

They were incredibly supportive and really, really good people.

And it set an example, obviously, kind of moving forward.

You're like, when somebody comes up to you and asks you those questions, you want to be that person for them.

You want to be that positive influence and create art moving forward so that they can do the same.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think that mentorship piece is huge.

You're not just with.

Well, I mean, with any kind of art, right?

And.

And I think within.

Within punk, it's.

For me, and just from my experiences, it's a really special thing because.

And, you know, there are assholes everywhere.

They're assholes in every scene.

Oh, for sure.

I just.

I just choose to focus on the more positive pieces of it, you know, But.

But it's like, whatever.

Within the punk scene, you know, whatever you want to create, like, there's going to be somebody out there, like, cheering you on, you know, or encouraging you to do it, or, you know, if you ask for help or pointers, there's going to be somebody, you know, to do that.

I was talking to a couple kids at a show a couple months back, and I was like, hey, when are you all going to play?

Like, you're at every show.

What are you going to play?

And they all said, we don't play the instruments.

We can't do that.

How do you think all these people started?

Nobody knew how to play an instrument.

Nobody knew how to write a song.

Nobody knew how to do anything.

You just have to get up there, and it's punk rock, so who cares?

We're not expecting, you know, some great composition, you know, we're not expecting some.

This great metal masterpiece to come out.

Like, just get up there and play your heart, and it will be good because it's honest and.

And it's your heart.

And so whether that's music or art or whatever, it's like just.

Just do it.

Just create.

Couldn't agree more.

Absolutely.

And so.

So with that sort of taking.

Taking our next little, little step, if you don't mind, what struggles have you had and how did sort of belonging to the scene either help or hinder your advancement through that struggle?

So I'm in the LGBT community, as you know, and so in the 90s, it was still very kind of you, still had like kind of the AIDS epidemic and everything.

I mean you still do now, but very.

Still highly stigmatized.

And so it was still a pretty fearful time to be gay.

And I was still trying to figure out my stuff completely.

Like I was, I was definitely still closeted, honestly even to myself in like 93, 94, still kind of figuring out kind of my personal journey.

And was those, those paths in sort of the punk rock scene and, and kind of self discovery kind of ran, kind of ran parallel.

They were.

They were happening simultaneously.

And what I think the, the punk rock scene there enabled me to do was high.

Like high school is horrible.

Like horrible when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Everything is horrible when it comes to everything.

So having that kind of punk rock scene and finding like kindness and, and acceptance, not in the sense that like, oh, you're gay, you're cool.

It was more just like a community where I didn't feel kind of judged or kind of uttered.

It was more just like you belonged and, and finding that was invaluable at that time because you, you feel.

Or.

I felt so unsure of myself and so not belonging.

Like in high school I, I was both simultaneously kind of like a music misfit, kind of like go to record stores and that kind of stuff, while also in like the theater scene.

So I was, I was, you know, acting and doing like improv and that kind of stuff.

And then also was on the wrestling team.

So I was a member of all three and felt only.

I only felt like I really kind of belonged in like kind of the music part.

And so that helped me a great deal because the, the other ones, it was just like, oh man, I do not feel like I belong really at all.

So.

But it was, it was over time when I kind of became more sure of myself and, and more confident.

I always had kind of my kind of my music.

People who are still my closest friends to this day are all people that, that I met through kind of music.

And, and, and so those bonds have just kind of kind of become stronger over the years.

But in the 90s when I was just so unsure of everything, it was, was kind of like kind of that.

That.

That stable base that I needed to kind of be able to find myself.

Yeah.

And, and I am not part of that community, but from like.

And obviously I was part of a different scene, like a different physical scene than you were because I was in a different part of the country.

Like, I don't think even then, like it wasn't as accepted even within the punk scene.

Then as.

As it has become, it's like.

I remember the first time I really heard anybody.

Sorry, my dog.

Look.

Oh, puppy.

That's Athena.

And then Fred.

Hello.

Also around somewhere was at the time the singer for Boy says Fire.

Watching them and, you know, with a bunch of my buddies.

And I forget what at the time he said, but we also looked into each other.

Like, did he just, like, come out?

Like, did he just, like.

And, you know, and we're like, that, you know, that's sort of cool.

Like, that takes some.

You know, that takes some gumption.

And now it's Natasha and she sings for Nine Roses.

But even at the time, we were.

We were all very sort of impressed.

We went up to her and talked to her at the time afterwards and just had a conversation about that.

And that was 95, 96.

But.

And then.

And I hope this isn't like street splaining, because I'm just trying to give you sort of from my straight perspective and because, of course, I'm more aware of it in the scene, so.

But like, the next real big jump that I remember again, being a straight person was Martin from Los Crudos came out with Limp Wrist.

And then sort of becoming aware of all these other, like, bands.

I was like, holy smokes, this is awesome.

And being all my friends sort of being really pumped.

And at the time, you know, some of those friends were closeted.

And seeing these bands being more out with it sort of helped them with their journey as well.

And now.

And now it seems very much like, come as you are.

And of course, there's still the.

There's still the.

Right?

There's still the.

The.

The slurs slung around, you know, But.

But there's also a lot more people, I believe now, like, standing up saying, hey, like, that's not cool.

Like, check yourself.

Everybody's welcome.

And punk's always been about, like, everybody welcoming.

And sometimes just the journey of our understanding has taken longer than it.

Than it should have agreed.

And I.

Please correct me and confront me on everything I got wrong.

And in that.

Well, no, I don't think any of it's wrong because it was your experience.

It was your.

Your experience for sure.

I think for me, like, Panty Division was.

Was that first one for.

I think, if.

If memory serves, I think Green Day, like, I'm not their.

Not their height because they're literally playing stadiums now.

But like, when they were like, dookie or like.

Or at the height of dookie, they brought Panty Division out to open for them.

And so A lot of people got exposed because of that.

And so.

But to your point, I agree 100% now it's, it's, it very much is come as you are.

And I find that a lot of like, kind of the pushback that, that maybe you and I both saw in the 90s when it comes to kind of gay and lesbian, like musicians or just anybody is now kind of reserved for the trans community.

And I think that's one of the reasons why it's so important to just support each other on whatever their personal journey is, because it's so individual for everyone.

And so, I mean, I think, to put it just simply, just don't be a dick.

Don't be a dick.

Yeah.

And support each other.

And.

And I realized, like, in sort of my description of my journey, I totally glanced over the whole like, riot girl movement and, and the band started with that.

And, and just at that time in my life, I wasn't as in tune with that movement as I became.

Like, you know, I knew of like Bikini Kill and, and you know, a couple others, but like, at that time in my life, I wasn't listening to that stuff as much.

So, so that that realization came later.

And I wasn't like, I wasn't just like glancing over that and pretending it didn't exist.

It would very much exist.

It very much was and is a powerful platform for people.

I just wasn't as in tune with it at that time.

So I just want to make sure I'm not completely negating that entire thing.

Yeah.

And, and so when I first moved to where I live now, you know, I got involved in the, in the punk scene pretty quick.

And, and, and like, everything was 21 plus.

It was very small.

And I kept, I, you know, I kept asking like, hey, where, like, where are the all ages shows?

Pardon me?

And like, oh, there are no all ages shows.

And like, there has to be all ages shows.

And everybody, you know, that I knew was just like, nope, no all ages shows.

All ages shows don't happen.

There's no all ages venues.

There's just doesn't happen.

And so I had a real hard time.

And it's also the, and when I say punk scene, I mean like the, the punk scene, not the greater scene in general.

And so I had a very hard time sort of connecting with and like a sense of belonging because it also was a more like conservative scene too, which is very baffling to me.

Agreed.

It was probably three years ago, four years ago, I saw a flyer for an all ages show and I was like, awesome.

Like, and, and I don't know how I missed, like, I just, I just missed it for, you know, however long I've lived here until then.

And so I went to, I went to it and I was like, this is amazing because it was, was a hardcore show.

And hardcore growing up was always male dominated, you know, this macho, you know, whatever gate kept thing.

And I love hardcore.

But I also recognize that the scene has, has traditionally been problematic if you didn't fit into that narrow definition.

And I walked in and just immediately, where the hell am I?

Like, because this is not quote unquote hardcore.

Like, there's, there's kids like dressed up like juggalos.

There's people dressed up like, like full on, like clown makeup.

So not juggle makeup, but like actual like clown makeup.

There's kids dressed up like anime characters.

There's obvious people who are obviously trans just like everything.

And I was like, I don't, I don't know if I'm in the right place.

Like, I like, this is weird.

And then music started.

Like, no, this is definitely hardcore.

And everybody's out dancing as I go.

This is amazing.

And I don't know how I've missed this for the last 15 years.

However many years I'd live here.

I was like, this, like this is everything the punk scene should be.

And it was just, come as you are, like, we don't care.

Everyone's welcome.

And at that point in time, like I went back to my band, I was like, hey, we are only playing all ages shows from now on and there are no all shows.

I was like, nope, you're wrong.

I found them.

I found them and that's what we're doing.

And you know, at first it was, it was a little struggle at first, but eventually everybody, you know, sort of came around to, to my way of thinking and it's great and, and it's awesome and just that scene is so spectacular.

And when, and when touring bands come and I don't, I'm assuming it's not like that everywhere because we've had a couple, you know, sort of bigger touring bands come through and, and they comment on it.

Like, this is like, this is like, this is something different here, you know, like cloud makeup and this and that.

Like we don't see this and you know, wherever they're from.

And I just think it's, I don't know what happened here in North Alabama that like all this became this welcoming space, but it's, it's awesome and I'm, and I'm glad for that.

Like, the people have, have that and it.

And, and, and again, you know, I don't, I don't belong to any of these other communities, so.

So obviously it's from an outsider's perspective looking in, but it appears that, you know, there is this safer space for them and that's awesome.

Couldn't agree more.

We have a skate park here in Tampa that's, I guess, fairly well known skate park in Tampa.

They're, they're putting on shows.

I mean, they, they have been for years, but personally have, have only recently become aware of like, kind of some of the hardcore shows they're doing.

And I would definitely describe some of the crowd exactly kind of how you did.

And it was awesome.

It was really, really, really cool because it did not resemble the hardcore shows that I remember growing up in.

And that, like you said, like the, like an accepting space for, for, for everyone was, Was very heartening.

I am still the old guy in back with my arms crossed or the guy to the.

To right or stage right or left with, with the camera.

My, my, my days of dancing are behind me.

Oh, definitely, definitely.

I am, I'm there with you on that one.

But doesn't mean I enjoy it any less.

Just my, my, my knees and ankles.

Thank me.

All right.

Yeah, our consumption is different.

Yes.

But I still listen to records.

Yeah, I still have my sheets.

Like I said, the collecting community did not just stop with things like toys and posters.

It started and still is ongoing with my vinyl.

Awesome.

Okay, where do I want to go next?

And you can feel free to ask me whatever as well.

Like, you know, this is a conversation.

It isn't just.

I don't want this just to feel one.

One direction thing.

So, so I'm going to start getting into a little political, if you don't, don't mind me.

But living in Florida and being in part of that community, like, what do you want?

Do you want to talk about sort of what that is like, or do you not.

And if you don't want to, that's fine.

We can, we.

I can, I can kind of go over it kind of because it's, it's my experience, but I'm in a city, like a local municipality that is for the most part pretty accepting.

And I know there are red states that have cities or communities that provide a safer space for that.

So even though the state politics may not be conducive and in some cases actively working against things like diversity and equity and inclusion, our local Community, I find, is not the case.

So my lived experience is.

I like, I feel like this community here still enables us to kind of, to be ourselves and be expressive and create art without really any kind of issues.

Whereas the larger kind of political landscape is a little bit more disheartening.

For sure.

I am an optimist by nature and I try to like, kind of focus on the things that I can kind of control and that I can then kind of contribute to and just make sure you guys vote.

Please vote.

Yeah.

And that I think that for a lot of people is, Is a daunting task.

Right.

But you know, and even for me, I get, I get very.

I mean, I vote in every election, but.

But sometimes it's.

The casting of that vote is very hard for me sometimes because it's, you know, a lot of times I go in and see the two, the two major parties is, you know, okay, well, I'm going to pick the lesser of two evils and precisely.

And, and like, I, I really cherish my vote.

Like, my ability to vote whoever I want for is to me is worth so much.

And I feel that asking that vote for somebody I don't really believe in, but I just think they're going to be better than this other person.

And like, is really tough for me.

But then sort of on the flip side of that coin, I also have to look at like, okay, like, yes, it's, it's my vote, but my vote has the impact on a lot of other people I care about.

Agreed.

And so every time major election comes up, I have this internal struggle of, okay, this really isn't the person I want to vote for, but they're definitely better than this other person.

But like, this person is going to have a greater impact on all these other people I care about.

So, you know, I have to put my own self aside to try to help all these other people I care about.

And then, and then work in, in different ways to try to hopefully make sure the next election there is somebody hopefully that I can feel better about for.

Well, I think, I think the hopefully what everything kind of going on, showing the very, very stark differences now.

Like, like, it's very, very different.

Where I feel like in my lifetime there was very small differences between the two, the two candidates.

And so you're kind of like, whereas now kind of what's going on, like, there's, there's people who are actively kind of working against communities.

And I wasn't aware of it as much then, and I've kind of become More political now.

But one thing that if I was to kind of hit any point, take home is vote in your local elections.

And I think a lot of people do not do that.

They just kind of vote in maybe the midterms, maybe the kind of the presidential one.

But local vote can have just as much impact, if not more, on your school boards, on your election boards, and your supervisor of elections.

City council.

City council, exactly.

Yeah, Everything.

It's all important.

So just, you know, find somebody who is this close to your ideology and, and kind of go for that.

But as.

As we kind of saw in, in New York City, no one saw that coming.

No.

So anything can happen, I guess.

Right.

Well, there was that election in Texas recently that flipped that seat like, huge.

There was an election in, I think, Louisiana that flipped a seat like by.

By a lot of, um.

It's hard waking up each morning and just sort of watching the news and watching everything that's going on in our country.

But I have hope.

I have great.

You have to.

Yeah, I guess talking about hope and having hope.

What are a couple things that give you hope right now?

Again, because of the, of where I live, like kind of the city that I live, I. I see price flags, like, pretty regularly.

Not so much the ones that were kind of like taken down by state government, but like homes, communities, businesses, like, or city.

City council.

From a, from a local perspective, there's hope here.

And my hope is that it kind of expands outward.

So much of it is like just kind of exposing people to diversity and kind of being like, look, they're literally just wanting the same things that we are, just those hierarchy, food, roof, family, you know, and when you put it in that perspective, it feels like we should all be on the same team when it comes to that.

So that's my kind of eternal optimism is at the end of the day that we all kind of want the same things.

And it's just kind of cutting through the noise of social media and the echo chambers and all that stuff.

And it's all manufactured.

It's all just literally clickbait and they don't care.

They just want your advertising money.

And if you just think everybody, think of everybody as a person, it becomes a lot simpler.

Instead of just rage baiting and like arguing with, you're probably arguing with a bot.

You're literally arguing with.

With a algorithm that is, that is literally intended to just make you angry.

You don't really participate in political discussions, like, online at all.

It's a pointless exercise.

But even in like, vinyl Collecting communities and punk rock community.

Like stuff where I'm actively like, oh, this man rules.

Oh, you should check out this one.

Whatever.

And then sure enough, somebody will post some kind of like inflammatory whatever it is and then just the discussion happens.

And I'm like, that guy's a bot.

He has like four followers and zero posts.

Like, no, like that is an algorithm, my friend.

Don't, don't feed it.

So focus, focus on, on the stuff locally.

One of the.

I, I don't know, like, I'm not going to like say specifically who he is, but he's a, he's a fairly well known punk rock guy.

I think he's in Jersey, ran for city council and, and so rather than just kind of talking about it, he just ran it.

So if you feel strongly about, about these values and, and you have the time and ability to, to do it, run for city council, run for, run for a local election and be the voice for, for the, the folks who, who are unable to do that.

So that like with him running and winning and with kind of New York City, I try to take hope when I where, where I can because there's a lot of, a lot of kind of negative stuff out there a lot right now.

So I try to tend to focus on, on kind of like, okay, things are shifting a little bit and really it's just in the name of just kind of being good to your, to your fellow person.

Really, at the end of the day, just don't be a dick.

Well all said, well said.

Yeah, it was, it was me.

I'm gonna ask myself that, that question as well.

With me, it's like my kid, like, just gives me hope.

Like, he's just an awesome, awesome kid.

And so, so a lot of me is like, okay, like what, what can I do to make this world better for him?

Right?

There's a lot of like grassroots organizing going on, you know, in, in my community, which, which is also like inspired me as well.

So within the last six months or so, like a Food Not Bombs chapter opened up here, which is, yeah, again like we're in Alabama and although I live in a more liberal place in Alabama, like it's still Alabama, so, so seeing that, you know, people are taking on that, that more.

And so I've, I don't go to the things as much as I should, but like, I donate all I can.

It's awesome.

There's a pretty good mix of people.

Like you have like the anarcho punks, but then you also have like engineers there.

So I live in Huntsville and Huntsville's has a lot of aerospace and defense contractors and a lot of engineers.

So like you go and there are.

It's like, oh, you're obviously like an engineer.

So you have these more recently activated people who may.

May not have been as active in the past, but they've had their fill.

And so now they are.

And then not just with that.

Like there's a lot of activism going on within like our library system right now.

Moms for Liberty is real active here and so they're trying to.

So you have this amazing activism going on with our library networks throughout the entire state.

Just seeing that this grassroots activism is really awesome.

That's awesome.

That gives me hope as well.

Okay, so.

So to be.

To be respectful of your time, I'll start wrapping this up.

But before I ask my.

My couple wrap up questions, is there anything else like you want to talk about before.

Before we wrap this up?

Well, I did have a question.

Oh, go for it.

Coming from the 90s.

And I remember this vividly because I was very much guilty of it and kind of speaking to the more kind of acceptance of kind of our kind of music communities.

Now.

Do you remember how gatekeeping we were about major labels?

They did best.

No, there was.

It was.

They sold out the worst.

Like what entered that major label.

You were dead to me.

And now obviously.

And I mean in retrospect, it was like some of my favorite bands, like albums were their major label record.

Like they would be indie, indie, indie, indie.

And I'm not even talking about like grade A, like so, so perfect example.

I'm a huge Sam.

I am guy.

Huge and clumsy.

Is.

Is perfect.

I love, love, love that record label.

Atlantic Records.

Bad Religion.

Huge Bad Religion Guy.

Stranger Than Fiction.

I think is.

Is incredible.

One of my favorites of all time.

And then you have like to meet world like clarity is incredible.

Like, but at that time you're like major label now.

They're terrible.

Yeah.

Well, who else like Jawbreaker.

Right, Jawbreaker.

You.

Oh yeah.

But even like, even quote unquote, maybe not bands that were necessarily under the punk umbrella, but like we rubbed elbows with them.

It's like Modest Mouse, right?

Like they start off like way indie.

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.

Who else?

You know when Victory was bought?

When Victory Records was bought.

Oh yeah.

Dead to me.

What do you think of so Saves the Day?

Their first.

Their first major was in Reverie.

I think that to me personally, like that record aged better at the time.

I was like, no, it's not Vagrant.

Terrible Yeah, I haven't listened to it in a really long time, so I'm gonna have to go back and give

it a listen in reveries.

Much better than I.

Than I gave it credit for back then.

Back then, I was very bothered and like.

And I was.

I was also very guilty of, like, not listening to bands at all because I didn't like the people that listened to them.

And so it was just like.

Like, oh, like you're the crowd that listens to this band.

Not.

Not even going to touch.

It's like Alkaline Trio hated them.

I just wouldn't even.

Because, like, the couple people I knew who were really into Alkaline Trio just didn't like them.

And so Alkaline Trio was then guilty by association.

I mean, I was wrong, obviously.

They're a great band.

I love their stuff.

Yeah.

So I wasn't even gatekeepy about.

About, you know, major labels.

I was also gate.

Gatekeeping about people who listen to that music or listen to that.

Yeah.

Like, nope, I'm not listening to them because that person listens to them and I don't like that person.

So that band also sucks.

We were very wrong.

Oh.

So let the record show.

Yeah, I. I hold my head in shame on my major label, Gatekeepiness.

So I just wanted to talk about it because we were kind of talking about, like, an accepting community and feeling like kind of belonging to.

Unless you sign to a major label.

Yep.

Yeah.

No, yeah, it's terrible.

Yeah.

For the record, I was wrong as well.

I'm with.

I'm with you in that, my friend.

Yeah, I have a. I have a story that goes along with that too.

So I was at some show.

I don't remember what show I was

at, but, you know, I was at a merch table and there was some distro there.

And one of my buddies walks up and points out now was like, hey, do you have that album?

And it was Converge petitioning the Empty Sky.

Right.

I think that's.

That was their, like, first ish album anyway.

And I was like, nope, they're metal.

I don't listen to metal.

And like, you're wrong.

You need to listen to it.

Because, like, I did listen to, like, other sort of, like, metaly bands.

Like, I really love this band out of D.C. called Damnation Ad.

But he's like, no, you need this in this album.

I was like, I'm not like, no.

He said.

And so we sort of argued over this album in front of this merch guy for however long.

And he Said, look.

He like, here's the deal.

Buy the album.

He said, if you don't like it by the third time listening to it, then I will give you the money for the album and you can keep the album.

Okay.

I bought it, you know, listened to, you know, put it in.

I was like, don't like it.

I saw a couple weeks later, he's like, hey, have you listened to.

I was like, yeah, no.

Well, how many times you listen to?

I said, just once.

He's like, nope, Three.

Three times.

You know, a month or so later, put it in again.

I was like, nope, nope.

Like, I. I don't like metal.

Don't listen to metal.

Which is stupid because, like, my foundations were in metal.

Like, I got my start in into the music, journey through metal.

So it was just.

We just get these stupid ideas in our head when we're younger and, you know, think we're right and we're not about some things.

Didn't like it.

And then a couple weeks later, after I listened to the second time, he was like, hey, Converge is coming.

Are you going to the show?

I was like, no.

He's like, have you listened to it three times yet?

I was like, no.

He's like, you know, go home, put it in.

And then, like, we're going to the show and something.

And when I put that album in for the third time, it was just something clicked with me.

And then, you know, for me, that opened up the whole, like, the whole, like, whatever metal.

Like, the metal core at the time was like, cave in and coalesce and like, all that stuff at the time.

This is spectacular.

Like, I'm stupid.

And then.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, then of course, I went to the show.

I was, like, blown away.

They just put on an amazing show.

But yeah, yeah, we just get these silly ideas in our heads sometimes about.

About music.

Oh, yeah.

Oftentimes we're wrong.

Yes, agree.

In hindsight, but in hindsight, at the

time, we are 100 correct.

So there's no way of telling us differently.

Yes.

Dear Jawbreaker, dear you is an incredible album.

You were wrong.

Not you, but me.

I was wrong as well.

I'm sorry, Jawbreaker.

Yeah, Yeah.

I feel like we could go down a whole.

Because not only the gatekeeping stuff, right.

Was going to majors, it was when, like, bands broke up and started, like, side projects or different bands, right?

So, you know, it's like.

Like.

Like jets to Brazil, right?

Like, oh, well, who's better?

You know, or that stupid argument, like, who's better?

Minor third or Fugazi but you never.

You like, you never hear the argument like who's better Rights to spray your fugazi.

Right?

Or like, you know, who's better?

Embracer, Fugazi or a Con Akon or Minor Threat.

You know, like there's all these things at least people have been in and you know, like that's the argument when really like they're all good.

You can like all the bands.

You can like all.

It's okay.

Like, I've always struggled with Akon a little bit, but.

But you know, the rest of them, the rest of them I'm into.

Right.

Okay.

So.

So talking about music and talking about all this now, what.

What are a few bands that you're currently listening to?

Like just, just in.

In pretty, pretty frequent rotation.

I'm obsessed with Brutus.

Do you know Brutus?

I do not.

B R U T U s. Okay.

They're 3Ps from Belgium, ironically brought up Converge.

I drove up to South Carolina and Georgia to see them.

Because they're from Belgium.

They don't come over here too often.

They opened for Converge on that tour.

Okay.

And.

But they are melodic, kind of.

I don't know.

I rock, rock and roll.

Drummer's a singer.

Guitar, bass, just a three piece, hooky, hooky songs, extremely talented.

Kind of a lot of reverb delay on the guitar pieces.

So really, really good stuff.

Obsessed, Obsessed.

I love them so, so, so much.

Trying to think what else kind of like that.

The.

The new Propagandi is really, really good.

Have you heard that yet?

I have not.

I will write it down.

Just.

Just watch.

Watch the lyric video for At Peace.

Because like with anything Propagandi does, like their music is just insane, but their lyrics are oh so on point and I think really speaks to.

And I think you and I are very similar.

I think it probably very.

It really speaks to kind of how we feel.

Okay.

Right now in this general kind of thing that we're doing in this current state.

I would say those.

And.

And as an aside, and I'm so, so sorry every time you take it like a, like a clip, I feel like I'm like in the midst of doing one of these, you know, And I'm just mouth agape.

Anyway, you know what I think those are.

And then I kind of just go backwards.

I still like listening to older bands is.

Is kind of like that warm blanket.

It just.

It kind of takes you to a time and do that to me now more than ever.

And it's kind of like not just like kind of like, oh 16 candles and breakfast Club, you know, reminds me of the 80s.

It's.

It's kind of like.

Do you ever see that movie Angus?

It was from the 90s.

Yes.

And it had.

It had like, more like sort of like popular esque, like punk bands on it, if I remember correctly.

So had like, like Offspring and.

And stuff.

Day Weezer, I think the Riverdales, but the Muffs were on there are fantastic.

Yeah, yeah.

That.

That whole.

And then Love Spit Love, which was.

They're fantastic.

And so it's varied.

And then I'm gonna.

A lot of people annoyed with this comment.

I will live and die and say that Goo Goo Dolls are incredible.

But earlier, Goo Goo Dolls, for me personally.

Well, they were on Metal Blade.

Yes, thank you.

Okay.

Exactly.

So just for me, when their guitars were a little bit more distorted, I. I love that band from that area.

Superstar Car Washes is incredible.

And then Hold Me up is incredible.

So anybody who would not give them a chance if anybody was being gatekeepy.

Because Goo Goo Dolls are Goo Goo Dolls.

Listen to those records.

If you like, like the Replacements, there's no reason you would not like Hold Me Up.

Yeah.

Or even Superstar Car Wash. Those songs are incredible.

And Paul Westerberg, I think is even on.

On the Superstar Car Wash, if you like that stuff.

Cool.

But don't be Gabe Keepy.

Try it.

But yeah, that's kind of what I'm listening to these days.

It's just soundtracks and then Brutus Propagandi and then like just kind of older stuff.

But yeah, awesome.

So I've been listening to this band called Nasty.

They're out of German.

I think they're out of Germany, but just.

Yeah, you know, it's like hardcore.

But like, just.

I saw them live about a month ago.

They were on tour with Haywire.

Oh, cool.

Okay.

Yeah.

And if you're not listening, like, if you've never seen Haywire live, I have.

They are amazing.

God, like, dude has some energy and amazing live show.

But anyway, Nasty was.

Nasty was on tour with them through, like, you know, a little stint they just did.

I was just really, really impressed by them.

So I've been listening to them quite a bit.

And then I've been listening to this band out of, I'm going to say the United Kingdom.

Like, I know they're from that island somewhere.

I just don't know where.

Not like, not.

Not punk, hardcore, nothing like that.

They're called Hen Ogled.

It's like H E N and then O, G L E D D. Okay.

They're this.

It's almost like if Throbbing Gristle.

Listen.

Was heavily influenced by, like, Duran Duran and the Proclaimers and Weezer.

Okay, okay.

And that.

That isn't a good description of it at all, but the first time I heard one of their songs, it's a great song, but it just made me, like.

It made me uncomfortable.

Just like.

Like, there's something with the time signatures.

It just.

Okay.

It doesn't sit easily with me, but I love it.

And they have a new album coming out soon, so they've sort of been dropped.

Like, they've had this very long release of, like, One Song at a time.

But the first song I heard from them is off this new album that's coming out.

It may have come out now, but it's coming out sometime in mid February.

But it's called Scales Will Fall and they have a video for it.

It's like.

It's almost as if a bunch of kids who are in high school got their dad to come, like, film this video for them.

And so it's all these kids who just went through their house and dressed up like medieval fighters and are having this battle somewhere on the island out there.

And.

But the lyrics and the person singing are just.

I mean, it's just amazing and really.

Just really good.

And there's, like.

There's a harp player and.

Yeah, like, the second song they dropped was called Clara.

And that's where, like, the Throbbing Gristle comes into it because it's like they're going through this song.

You have to watch the video with it, too.

They're very much more like a perf performance.

Adds.

Adds a lot to the song.

And the song's going on and, like, there's this weird horse going around.

Or like, people dress up like a horse, and then, like, all of a sudden, like, the song will stop and looks like Clara and then the song will start.

And Clara definitely is not as good as.

As Scales Will Fall.

But, yeah.

So, anyway, so I visit those two bands, and then I've also been going back and listening to a lot of, like, Sinedo Connor.

Okay.

And.

And very much like I was talking about earlier, sort of doing this deep dive into Kim Adaweek, dive into S O Conor.

Just could have been really a long time since I. I really listened to her stuff.

And holy smokes, does she has just solid, solid music, you know, beyond just what was played on the radio.

So, like, Queen of Denmark is a spectacular song.

Like, Black Boys on Mopeds, like, still.

Still irrelevant song.

God.

Just.

I mean, and she just.

We weren't worthy of Sinead o'.

Connor.

Like I just.

What a spectacular musician.

Okay, so next question is, what do you think people should be listening to?

Like a band that went under the radar a little bit?

Sure.

More like bands that are that, that like should be relevant to like the time and just like, hey, like even though I'm not listening to them right now, you should check this band out or you know, or, or whatever.

Or like maybe you have some friends in a band and they're like, hey, you know what?

My buddies are this band and they're good and everybody should know about them.

How you want to define that question?

Go for it.

There's.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I think two bands that people should definitely listen to lyrically.

One of them is called the Levelers.

They're from the uk.

They are like, I don't know if they're full on anarchist, but they are definitely very left, left leaning folk acoustic punk.

So if you enjoy things like Frank Turner.

Frank Turner, like I don't know if I can't speak for the men.

I can't say if he would say he was influenced by them, but I definitely hear influence of them.

Lyrically they are 100, like where we are at right now.

Check out a weapon called the Word.

It's like an early album as a good kind of starting point, their big album because they were, they actually had some mid-90s success.

Their big album was called Leveling the Land.

So that's where the hits are.

But I would start with a weapon called the Word.

Propagandi is another one, of course.

Just lyrically I, I think is a good place.

And then of two bands that I think I, I, I wish would get bigger so I could have more music by them.

Do you like Fleshwater?

Do you know them?

Okay.

Flushwater is getting big so I, I think they're doing just fine on their own.

They're playing like, like Fya fest.

Like they're.

I just saw them here in town last year and the crowd was big.

It was awesome.

So you got one kind of rough vocals and you have a, a clean female singer and her voice is angelic.

It's amazing.

I mentioned them because as I said, they're kind of getting bigger.

There's a band that I love, love, love called the Darling Fire.

And beautiful clean vocals, but like intricate music, heavy parts.

It has the drummer Further seems forever.

If you were ever a dashboard person.

Have you ever listened to Dashboard Confessional?

So on those first two records he had a female singer doing backups, like the callbacks on some of the songs.

That's her.

Okay.

So her name is Jolie.

That.

I love that band.

And they're.

I want to say, their most recent record, it's been out for a few years.

It's incredible.

So I want people to like that.

So please listen to it and then make them huge so they make more records.

And then lastly, do you like Wilco and that kind of stuff, like, Jeff

Tweedy stuff, You know, I really want to like Wilco.

And I don't.

I don't like.

Like, there are a couple songs that are really, really great.

Like, they released one song during the pandemic.

Like, Love is Everywhere.

I mean, spectacular song.

My biggest problem with Wilco is I've seen them live a couple times and they just bore the piss out of me, like, and.

And so when I'm listening to their music, like, I. I can't get the boredom out of my head, you know?

And also, like, when.

When I.

When I see music live, it just goes back to that consumption part.

When I see music live, like, I don't.

I don't care about hearing a song note for note.

Like, I want to feel something, you know?

And so I want passion and I want emotion, and I just don't.

Like, I personally.

I know there's thousands, if not millions of people in the world who are going to disagree with me, but I personally don't feel that emotion or passion when I'm.

When I'm seeing them live.

Like, I get the feeling like, we need money and so we're on tour to make money and this is our job.

That's not saying they are not amazing musicians.

They're great songwriters, whatever.

Like I said at the beginning, I really want to like them.

There's a couple songs that are just amazing.

I really like the album they did with Billy Bragg, but that's because they did it with Billy Bragg, and I'm a huge Billy Bragg fan.

Incredible, obviously.

But.

But regardless, I don't want to take away from whatever you were about to say, because I'm sure.

Oh, so I was gonna say I was.

I was setting myself up, actually, so.

All right, so fans of Wilco, and then I'm gonna back up a second.

So I love, love, love this band called Game Face.

They were on Revelation for a while.

I remember that.

And then they.

They put out.

I think it was on Rise Records, sort of like a reunion record, which I think is perfect.

And my favorite record by them, which really, I Mean.

And just be perfectly honest.

When is the most recent album by a band you love your favorite record?

It's always like it to me.

Like the first record that you heard by them and then you kind of like, oh, that record's good.

The album's called now is what Matters Now.

But anyway.

But.

But.

So if you want to check that one out, it's great melodic, great songwriting.

But the singer, Jeff Cottle has another band called Locoast which if you like kind of more acoustic kind of rock alternative stuff, kind of in the vein of Wilco Ish.

But I love Jeff's voice so much.

It's beautiful.

The songwriting is fantastic.

Go check out Locoast.

All right.

That's it.

That's all my recommendations.

Cool.

Okay.

I'm going to throw one out there.

Sure.

The band's called 1876.

Okay.

So it's a native band and.

And I don't want to get their tribes wrong.

They're from.

I believe they're from the Blackfoot Reservation and I believe it's.

They have members of both the Blackfoot Nation and Cheyenne.

I'm pretty sure that's it.

And I could be wrong.

If I'm wrong, I apologize.

Go check them out.

Let.

But they are.

They're sort of all over the board, punk wise.

Like.

Like, you know, very mostly that.

Very just traditional.

Like if I were to say punk to you, like the first thing that pops in your head.

Sort of rancid.

Rancid esque.

Right.

But they make some Scott in.

They make some hardcore in like there's some good sing alongs.

A lot of their lyrics are very much about like sort of being native in that and that and the stuff that just goes along with that in this.

In this country and in this world.

But just a lot of it.

And they say they like.

They.

They sing in English but they also sing in their native languages as well.

And they'll mix it all up within a song, you know.

And then they play guitarist and all that.

But they also have more like their traditional drums as well.

It's just great.

It's catchy.

There's a lot of heart in it.

That's awesome.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah.

1876.

That's the number 1, 8, 7, 6.

I'll check them out.

That sounds awesome.

Okay, last question is.

So let's say, you know, a kid is listening to this in middle of Heart of Deep Red, Florida and they are like us.

What are your words of encouragement to them?

It always gets better.

It.

I. I like the.

The what I was experiencing, you know, when I was in high school compared to just a few years later.

And then compared to just a few years later after that, you become more confident.

You'll become more sure of yourself.

But if you find yourself in a tough spot, find your community in whatever your interests are.

It's music or punk rock or hardcore or theater or record collecting or, or collecting in general, whatever the thing that you love to do, there are other people that love to do it too.

Find your community there and that will help you through any of your tough, tough times.

Awesome.

That's.

That's what I got.

Awesome.

Thank you so much, my friend.

Of course.

Thank you.

I really appreciate your time.

I really appreciate the conversation.

Even though we're not in the same place at all.

I appreciate getting to see your face and I appreciate your friendship.

So thank you.

Thank you so much than you as well.

So everybody else, thank you for listening.

If you want to get in contact with me, I should know this off the top of my head, but like I said earlier, I'm not.

I'm not a professional.

So I have to find my notes.

They're here somewhere.

Let me get to.

Ah, here it is.

Email address.

If you want to email me something great.

Like we talked about earlier, mentorship is awesome.

So if you know things I'm doing wrong and you want to help me do that better, I am, I am open to that feedback.

Email address is punklovecompassionahoo.com Facebook is Punk Love and Compassion.

Instagram is @punklovecompassion.

And Blue sky is punklovecompassion.

BSKY Social.

I'm not the best at social media, but they're there.

I. I think the one that gets updated most frequently is the Instagram account.

Yeah.

But I appreciate everybody else.

I'm glad you're here.

I'm glad you listened.

Hopefully you'll tell a friend about it.

And again, Todd, thank you.

I really appreciate it.

And until next time, my friends, we will see.

Sam.