Sar Rah and Crafting Cootie Catchers

Welcome to Punk Loving Compassion.

Radical voices telling stories of resilience and hope.

We have Sarah from Colorado joining us today.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Sarah is one of my longtime friends.

I really appreciate her.

I enjoy her being in my life.

Today we're gonna talk about a couple things, but we're also going to do some crafts while we're doing this, making cootie catchers.

And I have no idea what a cootie catcher is, but I'm sure.

I'm sure.

I'm sure it will be explained in this process.

I think as we bake it, you're gonna be like, oh, I totally know what this is.

Cool.

And also, like, I'm drinking raspberry zinger tea today with.

With a lemon ginger honey.

And what are you drinking?

I have a.

The chocolate mint.

Yeah, Nice.

Used to make honey.

This doesn't have your chocolate mint honey in it, but it bought it wanting your chocolate mint honey in my tea because I used to drink that when I had it.

Cool.

I think I might have some laying around I can send you.

That would be rad.

Cool.

So let's get started.

How do you want to do this with the.

The craft thing?

Like, do you want to explain the craft and then we'll craft as we.

As we talk?

No, let's talk first.

Okay.

And then we're gonna start the craft and talk more.

Okay.

I don't know how long this craft is gonna.

Is gonna take, so as hopefully like.

10 to 15 minutes.

Okay.

Okay.

So first that's.

That's create sort of a baseline entry point for people who are.

Who are listening along because.

Because they don't know us.

So for you, do you remember the point in time where you decided either consciously or subconsciously, that you belonged in the punk rock community?

You know, it wasn't.

It wasn't just music you listened to.

It wasn't just your friends you were hanging out with.

But.

But like, holy crap, I am a punk, and this is part of my identity.

Great question right off the bat.

You know, I remember the first time that I felt like music or punk rock was more than just the music.

So for a while, I lived in Venezuela and I.

So getting into punk rock for me was.

I mean, I'm sure for most people, kind of organic.

I didn't realize what punk rock was and the community behind it.

When I first started listening to it, most of it was on the radio, and it was just music that I liked, but I really liked liner notes and I Liked reading liner notes.

Even before I started getting into punk rock, One of the ways that I found new music was reading liner notes and albums.

Because people that I like to listen to would thank other bands and other musicians.

I really loved Emmylou Harris when I was little growing up.

And on one of her records, she covered a lot of Bruce Springsteen and, like, mentioned him in the liner notes.

And then that got me into Bruce Springsteen.

And, you know, I think a lot of kids probably got into music that way.

So I had bought a Green Day album.

And actually, this is a funny story.

I wanted Dookie because that was the cool record.

And.

But I lived overseas and my dad was going to America, and I was like, buy me this.

And this actually wasn't when I lived in Venezuela.

This was earlier.

He came back and he had bought Kerplunk.

Because I didn't know the name of the album.

I was just like, buy a Green Day album.

After the devastation that I was in Dookie, I listened to it.

But in the liner notes, they mention, you know, that album is on Lookout Records.

And they mention all these other bands and I think some zines, too.

And that was the first time I'd ever really discovered zines.

And going down that sort of route of Lookout Records really showed me.

Painted this picture of a community.

So not just the music, but the community behind it.

I always thought it sounded cool.

I don't know.

It was like this thing in California.

Maybe it just didn't happen everywhere.

But then when I moved to Venezuela, we.

I really got to sort of experience it with my friends.

Just getting together, having common music tastes, hanging out together, and starting to create a space for us to be creative in.

You know, having band practice or little shows.

Because there wasn't anywhere to do it.

We had to create it ourselves.

When it was happening, I. I kind of knew that I was touching on this, like, magic punk rock community that I'd only read about.

Just being in it, experiencing it, made me feel like I was part of something and I was in the right place for the first time.

Did I answer your question?

I feel like I went on a tangent.

No, no.

But it.

You got to your own point.

I think it was all relevant to.

To the end point.

Yeah.

Going through that and creating that space and realizing that I could make things with my friends and start doing this sort of like, do it yourself DIY mentality that is such a big part of the punk rock scene was really important to me because I couldn't fit into other people's structures.

You Know, I struggled at school, I struggled even in like clubs, in band and church groups.

And it just never felt right.

And to be able to feel like I don't have to, I don't have to follow other people's organized structure, whatever it was, whether it was school or at home or even like potential fun things that maybe I didn't find fun.

Learning how to make it myself or make it with my friends, find people that had that same mentality meant a lot to me.

It still was.

So being able to realize that you can do yourself and you can make art yourself.

Because I think, I don't think we're really taught that going to school, right.

It's a very one track.

In order to do whatever it is you're going to do in life, you have to go to school, you have to go to college, you have to study, you have to take all these classes and you have to follow this make believe tract in the world, right?

Yeah.

And I really struggled too in school, even with art, because.

So as an artist, I know that it's important to learn the basics and the structure of whatever kind of art you're trying to learn.

But there comes a point when I felt like I was being creative and making creative choices and I was getting bad grades because of it, right.

Or I was getting told that I was doing things wrong.

You know, maybe I wasn't away, but it ended up actually being really restricting and made me feel like I couldn't make the kind of art that I wanted.

I just didn't thrive in that school structure.

Right.

And I think my freshman year in high school, I took an art class, didn't do well in it at all because part of, I was just questioning the teacher and what, you know, they were trying to teach at the time because I thought it was crap.

And in hindsight, I still, I still do.

You know, I'm not, I'm not an artist, you know, but you know, at the time I was, you know, whatever, whatever it was I was trying to draw, you know, I was outlining in black and the tears, like, no, you can't outline it in black.

Real artists never draw an outline.

You just have to, you know, use colors and shapes and whatever and don't outline it in black.

And for me, and just, you know, how my brain work, I was like, no, like I need, like, I need the boundaries in there to create these other things, you know, Now I'm, you know, as old as I am and I'm looking at the art I have on my walls and almost every single one has a black outlines, right.

And.

And it's all art.

I've bought from very successful artists.

You know, I don't own like Picassos or anything, right.

But I own art from.

Most of them are still alive.

They make a living at doing art, at making art.

All of them have black outlines.

You know, my tattoo artist friends, black outlines.

And for whatever reason, that teacher was like, no, no black outlines.

And great.

And just for me in the way my brain worked, I needed those outlines.

And there were other.

I don't remember the other things, but I mean, to me it was all silly at the time.

It's still silly looking back on it because.

Because I think art is a very personal thing and it's a very expressive thing.

And when you are putting, you know, boundaries on it by saying, oh, no boundaries, you can't do this.

This is an art.

This isn't whatever, you're then taking that person's self expression away.

You know, I feel like a lot of the message that I got and, and I had great teachers and I had bad teachers, but I feel like there is this thing where they're like, where when you grow up, you're kind of told like, follow the rules, but.

But also be creative, but still within the rules, you know, and.

And I think that there's some people that are really good at finding the rules and finding balance in it, but there's a lot of people that aren't, you know, And I think that especially for me, anyway, through my whole.

I found later, through my whole life that not just in art, but in school and even at work and in relationships, we live in a world where we're given a schedule or a set of rules or the way things should be.

And not everyone fits in that box.

And you have to figure out by yourself how to make that work.

Are you gonna create something completely different?

Like, do you have to go a completely different way to be happy?

Or do you take what you've learned and just like twist it a little bit?

And we're not taught how to do that.

No.

Right.

No, we're not taught that at all.

We're taught how to fit in the box.

Exactly.

Not like how to truly make it your own and how to know, right, how to know what you need to change to make it work for you.

And for me, like punk rock did that.

And I agree with something you said.

Like, you know, I agree that, you know, people do need to know or should know the history and the theory and some kind of framework, like what's your starting point?

What's your starting point?

Right.

And, and what has come before just to give them a reference of, okay, like whatever I'm doing, this is, this is the greater picture and the greater world I'm operating in.

But just because I'm an artist doesn't mean I have to paint exactly like Picasso.

Right.

Just because I'm a musician doesn't mean I have to sing exactly like Enya.

You know, just because I, I'm.

This doesn't mean I have to be exactly like that.

Like, yes, we are now part, both part of the same world and we sort of operate within these weird loose boundaries.

But there's all this freedom to do whatever I want within this world versus no, this is, this is the world.

It's a very neat, organized world.

In order to operate, you have to operate within this very small, neat, organized box.

I think you bring up a good point there because you know, when we had talked about doing this, we talked about mental health and depression and you know, I think that there's this message that gets sent oftentimes when we're younger that in order to be happy we have to fit into this box.

Right.

And then when you learn that you don't fit into that box and you don't know what else to do, you get depressed, you feel lost.

Yes.

Grown ups tell us that we have to be this certain way and then be this certain type of grown up.

And then when you become a grown up, you realize that nobody still knows what's going on, Right?

Correct.

You're like, be this way and when you're a grown up, you'll be happy.

And then when you're a grown up you're like, no one knows what the F is going on.

Everybody lied.

Everybody lied to me.

And so one of the things I got from punk rock and it sort of ties into mental health and what we're talking about is like my self efficacy is, is crazy high.

And do you know that, do you know the difference between efficacy and esteem?

Like self efficacy and self esteem?

I do not.

So please tell me so.

And I'm like, I'm going to way simplify it.

But self efficacy is your belief in yourself about your ability to achieve.

Okay, okay.

Whereas esteem is, that's, that's like yourself worth.

Okay, okay.

So.

So it's different.

That makes sense.

You know, so you could have really high one, but really low the other or you know, vice versa.

So punk rock and being involved in punk made my self efficacy probably unhealthily.

High, like I think I can do anything.

And I was, I was talking a couple, I was, I had a very long delayed layover in Washington D.C. a couple weeks ago.

I was flying home right in the middle of the, the, the shutdown.

And so my plane ended up getting delayed like 10 hours.

So I was like, well, hell, I'm here.

I'm going to try to see if, like, you know, some people I know are around.

So I went and hung out with the family I lived with growing up for a little bit.

I was talking to the dad and it had been a couple years since we had seen each other, really talked and sort of giving him an update over everything I'm doing.

At one point in time, he looked at me and he said, how, like, how did you learn to do all of this?

Like, how do you know how, how to do all of this?

And I said, what do you, what do you mean?

And he said, well, who taught you how to do all of these things that you do?

From, from rafting to making sorbet to just, you know, all these things, like, nobody, nobody taught me.

He said, well, how, like how do you know how to do it?

As I figured it out, like, what, why can't I do that?

Why can't I make sorbet?

Why can't I learn how to.

Or teach myself how to whitewater raft?

Why can't I, you know, create a co op of farmers that never existed before?

Why can't I make a podcast having no idea how to do one?

You know, why can't I?

Sure, I can do that.

I can do anything.

But like, my self esteem isn't always there, right?

And so, so a lot of times, you know, I'll start these things or get these really great ideas like, oh, yeah, I can do it and I'll, I'll do all the research and cool, I'm ready to go.

But then it's like, oh, like, I know physically I can do this, but I don't know if, like I can do this, you know, so, so yeah, so that, and that's where that esteem part gets in the way of the efficacy part.

And it's silly because I can.

You can, anybody can.

You know, it's just our own selves getting in, in our way.

And I think that esteem part for me is definitely comes from outside the umbrella, right?

Like that.

The esteem part comes from, you know, those not.

And not to.

Not to bash teachers, because I know there's some good ones out there.

I had some.

Also had a really, had a Lot of really horrible ones.

But it came from the teachers who were like, nope, this is wrong.

You're wrong.

You don't get this.

Right.

You don't fit into this box.

You don't fit into this box.

You know, but it also comes from, you know, my own parents just being, being who they were, you know, the various clubs and kids I tried to hang out with and churches and all of that too.

Right.

Like everybody wants you to fit into this box and some of us just don't.

And, and then we face all that sort of ridicule and rejection and bullying because we don't fit into this box.

And where do you find the other people that don't fit in the box?

Right, right.

Where do you find them?

And luckily, I think for most of us, we, we end up finding each other.

Exactly.

And I think partly like through punk rock and music and that scene, finding that space.

Yeah.

Do you feel like you're the efficacy versus like the esteem?

Do you feel like it's changed as you've gotten older?

Like as you've done all these things and accomplished them by yourselves?

Maybe that gets high and me.

And then, I don't know.

As you get older, are you having a little bit more self esteem issues or like imposter issues?

I have imposter issues on a daily basis, you know, on a daily basis.

And, and it's silly me too, but on a daily basis.

On a daily basis it's like.

Because.

Because like I look on my life, back on my life and, and I don't see anything extraordinary about my life.

You know, I, I've.

It just how I look at it, like I've done what I've needed to do to A, survive and B, take care of my family, you know, once I got married and had a kid and all that, and to take care of my family.

Like I've done what I've needed to do to do that.

And in the process, like some really amazing things have happened and I've met amazing people and I've had amazing experiences.

Just really great things have happened and I don't want to take away from that.

But for me it's like it all came through just doing what I needed to do to survive and this like magical thing happened in the process.

Right.

But going back to your question about esteem and efficacy is like now I'm more aware of it more like I think it still happens.

It probably doesn't happen as frequently now as it did before, but it definitely still happens.

But now I know about it.

And I have.

I have more tools to, like, identify it and process through it.

And even then, like, still, sometimes I'm more successful than other times, you know, so.

So when I first thought of this, the idea for this podcast, it was, you know, it was back in the spring, and it was like, cool.

Like, this is what we're gonna do.

Here's what we're gonna do.

I didn't have time right then just to do it.

Just.

Cause I was doing a couple other things.

Just didn't have the time.

But I was.

Just needed to think it out a little bit more.

Cool.

Like, we can do this.

And then my.

Then, you know, I was talking about my son was like, hey, dad, that's.

That's you.

And I do a podcast.

I was like, cool, we'll do a podcast, too.

You know, why.

Why can't I do two podcasts?

It's like, I don't even know how to do one.

If I don't know how to do one, I don't know how to do two.

Like, let's figure it out in the process, right?

Like, we can do this.

Yes.

But for this one, you know, that.

That imposter thing came up.

That esteem thing came up.

And, And.

And so I call.

I, you know, talk to one of my.

One of my good friends.

I was like, hey, here's my idea, and I want you to be my co host.

Like, we'll do this together.

And again, I talked to him back in the spring, and.

And he was like, I don't have time.

I said, well, I don't have time right now either.

He's like, well, let's talk in October and see where we're at.

So I talked to him in October and, you know, still has a lot of stuff going on.

Like, he's in a band right now that's, you know, playing some pretty big shows.

Like, he's a tattoo artist, great dude.

But he was like, why don't you just do it?

He's like, and then when I have time, you know, I'll.

I'll help.

He's like, and I'll put you in touch with people and all that.

And I was like.

You're like, like, do it by yourself.

Right?

And.

And.

And I realize I'm making all these.

All these motions, and this actually isn't going to be broadcast videotape.

It's gonna be broadcast audibly.

But it was like.

But it was that.

That.

That esteem piece came in, right?

And it was like, I. I don't know if I, like, I know I'm physically capable of doing it by myself.

I don't know if I'm mentally capable of doing it by myself.

And so that was processing through that.

Then it was, you know, one identifying it like, oh, here's my esteem coming into, you know, that past trauma or whatever, coming in to rear its ugly head again.

And actually, yes, I can do this.

And yeah, so then.

So at that point in time, it's like, okay, like, what do I actually need to do a podcast?

So I started doing research on that and talking to people and started talking to people about being guests.

And I, you know, started with friends, of course, but even with my friends, I was still like, I didn't ask everybody, right?

I was like, okay, who.

Who are my safe people?

You know, who is, like, a 90% likelihood of saying yes, so let me reach out to them.

And then I was like, okay, I've identified those people, but, like, who can I talk to?

And so I came up with a very short list of some other people who aren't friends but are, I know, very loosely or vaguely, but are.

Are very well known under the greater punk rock umbrella.

And they cool.

Let me.

Let me shoot out some.

Some messages them, see what happens.

Some got back to me, some didn't.

Like, you know, the ones that got back to me, I was like, awesome.

They got back to me.

And the ones that didn't is like, oh, why didn't they get back to me?

You know?

Right.

It's how the steam piece comes again.

Oh, that imposter piece.

Right?

Like, oh, maybe, like, this really isn't a good idea.

You know, maybe I'm just making this all up, right?

That stupid voice, right?

But it's working through that and saying, you know what?

No, Like, I've talked to enough people who think this is a good idea and who think this is needed.

People are gonna say no.

Just deal with it and go forward.

Right?

Like, there's always just gonna be people that don't get back and say no.

Right.

Even if, like, in your.

You had been doing this for years and you didn't feel like an imposter anymore.

Right?

Right.

So, yes, like, it still does happen.

It's easier to identify.

It's easier to work through most of the time than it was, but it still sucks.

Right?

Yeah.

But again, like, being involved in punk rock and that DIY culture gave me the physical belief that I can do any.

Do anything, and the initial mental belief that I can do anything.

But then it's.

Then it's, you Know, then that esteem piece sort of crawls in from the back and starts, you know, pecking.

I go, can you really?

Can you really?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Maybe not.

I guess I thought I could.

Yeah.

I feel like I've been having trouble with that the last couple years.

I.

You know, coming from that place where you make it happen and you can do anything, and being in bands, touring, and having, you know what I would consider success in it, and as I start these new ventures that are different, that aren't music, and being older, I'm definitely experiencing that inner voice that's like, you're too old to start something new.

You don't know what you're doing.

If you had wanted to do this, you should have done it a bajillion years ago.

It's depressing.

It's so funny, because when we were younger, I didn't care.

And, I mean, I've changed my career, like, five times and, you know, always been able to take on these new adventures and new hobbies and new experiences.

And then just the last couple years, it's been a struggle to get past that voice.

Like, you don't know what you're doing, you're not doing it right.

Other people are gonna judge you, you know, Definitely depressing.

And I wonder, too, if it's like, for me, it was getting older and, I don't know, dealing with that, I feel like I couldn't wait to get older.

And now that I'm older, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing.

More so maybe than when I was younger.

Yeah.

Funny side thing, I don't listen to very many podcasts, and the ones that I do listen to, I watch on YouTube.

So when we were doing this Cootie Catcher, which we're still going to do, I thought that the video was also going to go out too.

Well, the initial plan was for the video go out as well, but then realizing how much I don't know.

My plan is to initially just release all audio, but then to eventually also release video.

Okay, that makes sense.

Take it one step at a time.

Which actually I'm going to jump into.

Okay, go for it, because I'm going.

To get into this Cootie Catcher piece.

Okay, then I'm sorry.

No, go for it.

I'm moving the conversation, but it's along the lines of what we're talking about.

So what do we need to make a Cootie Catcher?

Okay, so this is something that I started doing to help me with my depression.

And what you need is a piece of paper like this.

It can be a rectangle or a square.

We're gonna turn it into a square.

Okay.

It doesn't matter.

You need some colors, because we want to make it pretty.

Got those.

And then just, like, a pen or you can use your colors.

Okay.

And.

Okay.

So that's what you need.

Okay, let's talk about the reason that we're making the c. One of the things that I experience bouts of depression.

I have anxiety.

I get very easily overwhelmed.

And on occasion, I've been so depressed that, like, I can't get out of bed.

I can't leave my house.

I get horribly overwhelmed.

I let everything build up to the point where I feel like I have completely lost control of my life.

And over time, I have learned that, again, there's no right way to deal with depression, even when it's yours and you've been experiencing it for years.

What worked one time doesn't always work the next time, Right?

But one of the ways that I deal with it is by breaking things into very small tasks.

When life gets you down and feels overwhelming, one of the things that I do is, again, break things down into small tasks.

And I taught myself this to get over depression.

But I use it now in my life because it works.

But there's different ways to do it.

And the first way that I learned how to do it was by watching Murder She Wrote marathons on the Hallmark Channel.

Nice.

So at this particular time in my life, my husband was.

Had this job where he was out of town for, like, months.

He was an insurance adjuster.

When he was gone, I just really struggled.

Like, I was already depressed.

And then when he was gone, I think I used.

I mean, I didn't use our relationship, but when you're in a relationship, you feel responsible for certain things.

There's certain things that you do, and you share chores and blah, blah, blah.

And then when he was gone, I wasn't doing those things.

And so, you know, I didn't want to leave the house.

The house was a mess.

I couldn't pick up the mess.

And then I felt like I couldn't pick up the other pieces of my life.

And it just became this, like, hole that I dug myself into.

And the only thing that made me feel not like I was suffocating in a growing black hole was watching Murder, She Wrote on the Hallmark Channel.

So there were commercials, and over the weekend, they'd have these big Murders She Wrote marathons.

And during the commercial breaks, I would pick something small to do in the house and just do it.

And then I would, like, go hide on the couch under my blanket and, you know, watch the show.

And then when it was time for a commercial, I would do something else.

And over time, like, obviously a slow process, because I'm just doing things, doing commercial breaks, but it really helped me feel like I was working towards getting better instead of just, like, sitting in my hole.

And then a couple years ago, when I started experiencing a shitty level of hopelessness, I tried this again, but in a different way.

Because the first of all, there's not a lot of shows anymore that have commercials, and my life was different.

And so that process didn't quite work for me the way that I had hoped.

So I started making these cootie catchers.

So the first thing we're going to do before we make the cootie catchers is make a list, okay, of four things that we have to do today.

And maybe back then it would have been, like, really small things, like, say I had to clean the kitchen because I hadn't cleaned it in weeks.

And it would be like, throw all the trash away, put all the glasses in the dishwasher, wash only the plates, watch only the silverware, like, just the littlest, tiniest tasks, and breaking it down for me.

Now I'm gonna do slightly bigger tasks, and I have a list of things.

Because first of all, we've talked about this before.

I've been sick for, like, two weeks, and I'm fucking sick of it.

And I'm having a hard time getting anything done.

But I'm gonna do trash and laundry.

So I have, like, my overthrowing office trash.

There's, like, trash in every room that needs to be taken out.

And then I'm not gonna do my laundry.

I'm just gonna put the laundry in the laundry bin, which is a chore.

In of itself sometimes.

Yeah, so that's my one.

And then I'm thinking of, like, 15 to 20 minute tasks, and then I'm gonna do dishes.

I actually already put all the dishes in the dishwasher, but there's like, a full sink of dishes that I have to wash by hand.

We're gonna do some work in our guest room downstairs.

There's fluorescent lights in the ceiling, and we're gonna take them down.

But before we do that, I have to, like, take everything out of the stupid guest bedroom.

So I'm just gonna take the bedding out and put the decor in a box.

And then my fourth thing is there's this, like, junk drawer in our Kitchen that is overflowing and it's making me mad and it's making me kind of feel like a failure.

You know when you have the drawer you can't close.

That was once organized and now it's not.

Yep, we're gonna do it today.

It's one of those things that you avoid, but you know it's only gonna take like 20 minutes.

But it's like hurting your feelings.

Yeah, can't do it.

That's my four things.

Are you gonna say your four things?

You don't have to.

Sure.

No, I can.

So I have to pay my taxes for my sorbet company.

Oh, that sucks.

Sorry.

And then make dinner family time.

And then take care of the animals.

So we have.

We have two dogs and we have some backyard chickens.

Oh, gotta take care of them.

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm really like, my son takes care of the chickens, but like, we hang out in the backyard while he does that.

Great.

Nice.

Okay, now I'm gonna pick four things because we are not going to be watching Murder She Wrote, which is fun.

And the point is that you're breaking this up with fun.

I forgot to mention that earlier.

So now we're gonna list four.

Four things that are.

Sorry.

Four fun things.

And I want these to be really small, like ten 20 minute activities that hopefully, like, as you're doing this, you don't have to go out and buy.

Right.

The idea is that you're gonna make this and do it.

Okay.

Like, right away.

So I have a couple things I'm gonna have.

Oh, I'm gonna do 15 minutes of chasing Jo in the backyard.

So she's my dog and she just likes it when I chase her.

I've been trying to teach her fetch for like five years, but it just turns into me chasing her.

I'm going to play this game that I have.

It's a card game called Rove.

It takes like five minutes to play and I play like three rounds.

And then I'm gonna watch Tasting History with Max Miller.

I don't know if you've ever seen that on YouTube, but it's really good.

It's like 20, 30 minutes.

And then because I'm sick, I'm going to drink a shit ton of water while I watch it.

And then last but not least, your wife and I are in a book club, and it's a book club that I run and we're supposed to be doing a read along all day today.

I'm saying that she's reading and posting and I have not.

I need to read a chapter and post.

She tells me about that sometimes that.

I have a book club and I don't, like, run it.

No, that she.

That she's part of it and.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So those are my four things.

Okay, so now we're gonna build our kitty catcher, and we're gonna put the things in the Kuti catcher, and we're gonna play the cootie catcher game to decide what we're gonna do.

And everything's supposed to take, you know, 20, 30 minutes, so.

Or maybe less.

Maybe 10 minutes.

Okay.

So I still have no clue what a cootie catcher is.

Let me show you one, because I have one here.

This is it.

Oh.

Oh, it's like that.

That.

Like middle school.

Elementary.

Yeah, I gotcha.

Okay, let's get into the science.

Except I'm not a scientist.

Abyss.

Oftentimes when you feel overwhelmed or when I feel overwhelmed and depressed, just getting started on tasks is, like, the thing that is the hardest.

And doing this, making this craft and like, sort of taking your mind off of the overwhelm of it and then putting things sort of in this order where you do something fun and then do something crappy is just like.

It's nice.

That's the science.

Gotcha.

Take your rectangle.

Is your paper a rectangle?

Yes.

And then you're gonna take the top edge and fold it over to the side like this.

See?

So you're making like a.

Like a trapezoid, right?

Correct.

Sure.

Is that what that shape is?

So then there's this flap, and we're gonna fold it up against the long edge like this.

Yep.

Okay.

And then I'm going to fold it back on the same fold because we're going to remove it.

And, like, you could use scissors, but the idea is that we're doing this fast, and maybe we don't have scissors.

Yeah, yeah.

So basically, you're making.

You're making a giant triangle, and then you're removing the rectangle base.

Right.

Because we're trying to make a square.

Right.

Okay, now you want to make sure that you have this piece in, like, this.

You already did it because you ripped it off, which was.

Right.

I'm just going to lick this.

Okay, but you don't want to give yourself a paper cut and then flip.

Yeah.

Because that would suck on your tongue.

So now you have a square.

Now we're going to fold it.

See, this way.

Perfect.

Because.

And we're going to have two diagonal lines that go across the square so we know where the middle is.

That's what we're doing.

Good.

I like it.

Now we're going to.

So now we're going to fold the.

One of the corners into the.

So the top corners in the middle.

Yep.

So you're filling.

You're folding one point into the center point, Correct?

Yeah.

So if your square were like a.

Like a kite, you'd be taking one point of the kite and folding it to the center.

Great.

Got it.

So it kind of looks like a diamond now.

And then we're just going to do that to all the sides.

Now, this is not going to be perfect, and it's actually a little bit better if there's space in between the sides of the triangle.

So you are trying to get the points in the middle, but it doesn't have to be perfect.

We're just.

We're making ourselves a present.

Yeah, I got it.

Making ourselves a toy.

Okay, awesome.

So now flip it around like this.

And we're going to do the same thing, bending it backwards like this.

Gotcha.

So we're.

We're putting, like, the fold on the bottom, and now we're doing the same thing.

So we're making.

Turning our medium square into a smaller square.

So good at explaining things.

Okay, so now.

Oops.

You know, I made like 10 of these earlier today, and this one is gonna be, like, the wonkiest one.

It's okay.

Okay, so now we have this.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay, so we've actually made the cootie catcher.

At this point, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna just fold it in half and then in half again, and it's just going to help.

So then open it again like this.

And there's going to be the triangle side, and there's going to be the square flap side y.

And you're just going to take the flap side, stick your fingers in, and pop these up.

So you're opening them sort of like a.

Like a frog's mouth.

Like a pyramid or.

Yeah.

And then you're going to take the edges and just squeeze it to squeeze it together like this.

How's it going?

Looks like you're struggling.

Got it.

You got it.

Look at you.

Okay.

The other thing I like to do here is turning it over and just like, baking the folds.

Really.

Really making the creases creak.

Yeah, really making the creases crease.

Okay, so now we have it.

Little monster.

Yep.

So now what you're going to do is if you put it like this again and you have your little triangle flaps when you open it.

Now you have, like, in the center square, you have eight sections.

Just write your things in in each section.

So I'm going to put trash and.

Laundry, and then, like, do you put all of, like, the.

The tasks together and then all the.

It doesn't.

Or just however.

However they go in there is however they go.

You can make it a task and a fun thing, or you can just put them all in.

It doesn't matter.

Dishes, bedding, junk drawer.

And again with these, let yourself make these as small as you want.

You want it as less com.

You know?

Are you one of those people that makes things super complicated?

I can be.

I can.

I definitely.

I definitely can.

Like, I want this to be, like, basic little things.

Plus, I think sometimes when we think about fun things that we do for ourselves, we make those really complicated, too.

Not just the chores, but, like, do you need to spend money and drive across town to get a massage to have fun?

I mean.

Yes, that's a fucking awesome thing to do.

Yeah.

It doesn't always have to be, but.

There are other options, right?

There's smaller things, too, that we can do to make us happy.

Okay, so we have that in there.

Now we color.

Okay.

I'm gonna show you how I color, because I am one of those people that cannot draw, and I'm not lying.

Gotcha.

I don't know.

One time I was really sick, and you drew me as, like, a punk rock platypus.

Oh, yeah.

And that was pretty awesome.

Thanks.

I can draw.

Okay.

Stick people and, like, if it's just shapes, like ovals, because the platypus is, like, kind of not hard.

It's just kind of some circles and some ovals.

I was impressed, and I appreciated it.

Well, thank you.

So are we just coloring the whole thing?

Are we coloring parts of it?

Oh, my God.

So good question.

Okay, so right now we're just coloring the middle.

This is how I'm coloring it.

I'm just taking each triangle, and I'm just, like, giving it a border and then coloring it in lighter in the same color.

Gotcha.

So we're coloring, like, each section where we wrote something.

Yeah, but you don't have to.

You can make it super easy and just color the whole thing one color.

I just feel like the act of coloring is relaxing.

Also, I like the way crayons smell.

I find that that is also, like, weird aromatherapy for me.

God.

Do you remember those markers that, like, used to be scented?

Yes.

Yes.

I think they still make those.

If they do.

My child has missed out on life because he has never gotten those.

Speaking of, like, old stuff that we had when we were kids, for Halloween, I hand out pop rocks and fund it.

Amazing.

This year I also did lemon heads.

I don't think that's, like, a really popular candy anymore.

I think that, like, as far as sour candy goes, there's, like, cooler candy now.

The lemon heads took me back.

Lemon heads are great.

How do you feel about coloring?

Do you find it relaxing?

I don't know.

Like, I really haven't done it much in a very long time.

Yeah, you know, I know some.

Some, like, art therapists that.

That are really into various, you know, arty technique things for.

For, like, therapeutic things.

It's just not something I've done much of.

Yeah, I know that.

Doing coloring books was, like.

I think it still is kind of popular.

And, like, again, it goes back to that thing about, like, coloring in the lines.

Like, the cool thing about the cootie catcher is you can color it however you want.

You make your own lines, though.

You can make your own dark lines.

Gotcha.

What's your favorite color?

Purple, probably.

Yeah.

Interestingly, not surprising to me.

For some reason, I feel like I knew that, you know, you had that when we were friends.

I mean, we're still friends.

Back in the day when we were kicking it.

Yeah.

When we lived in the same place.

You have that purple ear Headband.

Headband, yeah.

How's your coloring going?

I'm almost done.

I'm sorry.

I'm taking forever.

Oh, no, you're fine.

I. I have finished.

I have finished my.

My part of it.

Yes.

Perfect.

Beautiful.

Okay, so now you're gonna fold the pieces over like this.

And so the idea here now is that you folded this over.

You kind of don't know what you wrote under it.

That's why it doesn't really matter the order that you write stuff in.

Okay, but now we're gonna color these flaps again and then put a number one through eight.

Okay, so.

So, like, we're coloring the flaps that are hiding what we just wrote and what we just colored.

Okay.

And we're putting numbers.

Numbers.

Gotcha.

One number on each.

One on each little triangle.

So I'm assuming like one through eight.

Yes.

And you know, and like you said earlier, like, you can't just have, you know, one go to thing, because life changes, abilities change, whatever.

So it's important to have, you know, different things that help you cope.

And not the same thing is going to work all the time.

Right.

Right there Is that sort of level of what can I actually do today versus what I think I can do today.

Yeah, right.

So even doing something like this, maybe you start doing it and you realize that it is still too much.

And maybe you need to only do four things instead of.

Or only do two things, two chores.

Or maybe this is just the kickoff of doing more things than just these eight things.

But we're gonna do chores and be creative and do fun things instead of just sitting feeling overwhelmed and shitty.

Yeah.

Like, I remember the first time I really felt like at peace or calm was shortly after I'd moved to Laramie.

I, I didn't know I knew one person there, but I hadn't really met a friend group yet.

I just moved there from Washington D.C. northern Virginia area.

Things were rough and I ended up dating this only person I knew who I was also living with, which hindsight probably wasn't the best idea.

It happens.

Right?

Right.

And, and like three days into that relationship I knew, like, I knew it was a mistake.

It just took me like 18 months to rectify the mistake.

Yeah, like she and I just got in a horrible fight.

I had no resources, so I just drove up into the mountains.

Like I took my tent, headed up into the mountains and I always liked being out outside before this, but I'd never really done much on my own.

Got up in the mountains outside town and just started, started taking four service roads and, and my car at the time was not built for four service roads.

I, I drove an 86 Honda Civic hatchback.

A red one.

A red one.

And yeah, this thing's not, not built for, for off road travel, but I didn't care.

So anyway, I just like, I, like I took it as far.

I probably took it further than I felt comfortable taking it, but I didn't want to take it any further.

Then I got out and just, I wasn't on trail or anything, just walked.

I ended up on top of something.

It was mountain and I wasn't even backpacking.

Like I literally had like a grocery bag of food and my tent just like walking with them in my arms and my sleeping bag, you know, Like, I looked like a crazy person.

I had no idea what I was doing.

DIY camping.

You know, I got up next to this like alpine lake set up.

Dang.

And was just there for like three days by myself.

And I would just get up on this rock and overlook this lake and just spend all day there.

And that was the first time, time I really felt like at peace and calm.

And then it got to the point where I was like, ah, I'm out of food, and I need to go back.

I don't know if I want to, but I did, like I said, 18 months later, rectified the situation.

But still, you know, it was.

It was.

You know, I found something that finally helped quiet all of the craziness that was going on in my head.

Right.

And to make that just felt really awesome.

But again, you can't do that all the time or.

I can't do that all the time.

I can't just take off, run away.

With a bag of food.

Right in the mountains.

Right.

So it is.

So I think it is important to find these smaller things.

It's like, okay, cool.

What can I do for 10 minutes, 20 minutes?

Just put my.

My mind to recenter question.

So back then, would you go out camping to just, like, chill after that?

Like that same spot or different spots?

I could never find that spot again.

And I tried, but, yeah, yeah, I did.

Like, whenever.

Whenever I had some time, I would, like.

I was never able to do it for that length of time again, you know, so a lot of times it was just like a night, you know, or even just like five or six hours, you know, just getting out away from everything.

And, you know, and this was before cell phones and all that too.

So it was just being able to get out and just completely disconnect it where, like, nobody.

Nobody knew where I was.

I didn't know where I was most of the time, you know, just to, you know, put some silence and peace into.

Into my life and just to, you know, get.

Get center.

Mm, nice.

And then do.

Well, you've always kind of been outdoorsy since then.

Do you get out now?

Well, you guys go camping and rafting and.

Yeah, like, I really haven't been out much, much in the past.

Like, this last year has just been sort of rough because I, you know, shut down my farm, started a new thing.

It was like this last year, didn't really do much, but, like, today started planning a rafting adventure for next year.

So, you know, so it's that anticipation of getting back out on a river.

How's yours look?

Beautiful.

I love it.

Okay, one last coloring.

So each of these squares flaps is just like, one color.

Okay.

So you can make it.

I like to put shapes on mine.

Okay.

You can also just make it a color, because the first step with the cootie catcher is you pick one of these four colors and you spell it.

Okay.

But I like to spell the shape, not the color.

Gotcha.

Because I don't like to follow the rules, as we've established earlier.

Fair enough.

But it gives you a starting point.

So in some way, the four different sections need to be discernible.

Right.

So I got my Spotify unwrapped, and it made me realize that I did kind of have a hard time this year because I have this playlist that has just, like, songs that make me happy, random songs that make me happy.

It changes, like, every year.

And my number one song this year was on that playlist, and it was Waffle House by Jonas Brothers.

Nice.

I was like, wow, how many times did I listen to that song?

Did you watch the, did you watch the Jonas Brothers Christmas special?

You know, I don't listen to the Jonas Brothers other than that one song.

I heard it randomly one time and I was like, this is, is a fun song.

And I put it on the list and I guess it was my favorite song this year.

Cool.

That William Shatner, Joe Jackson, that song is spectacular.

Yeah, that's on that list, too.

What is not spectacular?

So William Shatner has a Christmas album, and on this Christmas album he has, he has, he has, he has guests come in to help him with these, these songs.

Guests like Henry Rollins and.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I, I think I, I think I listened to it a while ago and it's horrible.

Like, it is.

He, he does a rendition of Feliz Navidad where, where he is singing all the Spanish parts.

Like spoken word, Shatner style.

Yeah.

But he's trying to sing.

Okay.

And then, and then he has somebody else come in and sing.

Sing.

Sing the English parts.

Except.

And I, I don't know who the person is exactly who sings the English parts, but they definitely have an accent.

And, and so it's, it's this obviously not Spanish speaking white dude speaking the Spanish, speaking of the Spanish parts.

And it's.

It's worth a listen maybe once or twice.

Probably not more than that.

I listen to the entire album because that's, that's what I do.

Well, I listened to the rest of that album that the Pulp cover was on.

I don't know.

I wasn't stoked on the rest of it.

Yeah, I wasn't really stoked on the rest of that one either.

What's a happy song that you listen to when you're blue, Joe, or.

I don't know why it just calls you Joe.

Just my dog.

Just like Heaven by the Cure.

But I really like.

And that's, that's the superior version.

Like any version of it they do is the superior version.

But I really enjoy the Dinosaur junior Cover of that song.

Oh, it's just edgier.

And it's Dinosaur junior Right?

Yeah.

You know, J Maskus and all that.

But it.

I just really.

Yeah, that one.

Okay.

Or Trooper by Iron Maiden.

Sweet.

All right.

That song gets me.

Gets me pumped.

Oh, or another one just sort of out of left field is.

What's that song by Ti.

And Rihanna?

Is it?

No, no, that was in Tia.

I don't.

I don't know.

So there's this, like, a kids movie came out a couple years ago, and it was about this.

This girl who's.

Who's going.

She, like.

She makes films and she's going to college, and she and her dad just really live your life.

The song's called Live youe Life.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And.

And she.

And I just really don't see eye to eye.

Her dad's more of, like, a woodsy guy, and she's obviously, like, artist, filmmaker thing.

The whole movie has a really good soundtrack.

Regardless.

It's this crazy family that doesn't function at all.

And then, like, robots end up taking.

Over the world.

And then she and her dad end up.

Well.

And the rest of the family.

But it's really like, she and her dad, like, have this bonding moment and they're killing robots, like, to this song.

Perfect.

It's perfect.

Yeah.

But anyway, regardless.

Yeah, those three songs, like, always get me sort of pumped.

So I did sort of like a.

Like a whirlpool and swirls and, like, squares and circles.

Oh, here, show yours.

I'm going to take a picture.

Okay.

And then I'll put this picture on my social media pages so.

So everybody can see what we're talking about.

Well, now we have dessert.

Yeah.

It took us a while to do this because we're talking.

You know, I.

Highly encourage yourself to touch yourself while you're doing this and be your own friend.

But you know that it does only take a couple minutes, right?

Yeah.

Okay, so now this is how we decide what chores and what fun stuff we're doing today.

Okay, so I'm gonna pick heart.

Okay.

I'm gonna pick swirl.

Okay.

So you can either spell the color or the swirl.

I'm gonna spell heart.

But it's gonna go like this.

H, E, A, R, T. Okay.

And then I'm gonna look, and I'm just gonna pick a number.

Gotcha.

I'm gonna pick six.

I'm gonna go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

And then I'm gonna look here.

I'm gonna pick six again.

And this is gonna be.

And then I'm gonna flip the flap and I'm gonna do my chunk chore.

I got play.

Yes.

I love that.

That was.

Yeah.

So then the next time around, I do this again, pick the next thing until I'm done.

Gotcha.

Okay.

You can, you know, there'll be times when you have, like, all your chores first or maybe all your fun stuff first, and you can change the rules, make it your own.

Gotcha.

You know, but it's just a good, fun way to, like, do something fun to sort of get your mind off the overwhelm of the things that you're going to do that day.

Yeah.

Made yourself a present.

Awesome.

Well, thank you.

Thank you.

I'll do that.

Or you can watch Murder She Wrote.

Yeah, you can watch Murder She Wrote.

Okay, cool.

We've been going for a while and I appreciate it.

Yeah, sorry I always keep you too long.

Oh, no, no, it's fine.

But let's wrap it up.

So, couple.

Couple questions left.

One, what are you listening to?

What should people be listening to?

Again?

We're recording this on December 13th and I have an audience.

Unhealthy obsession with Christmas music.

Yes.

So I've been listening to, as I talked about just a couple minutes ago, William Shatner's Christmas album.

But that one has come to an end.

I've done it, We've gotten through it.

I recommend people listening to it once and that's really all you need to listen to it.

Bob Dylan also has a Christmas album.

Again, you probably need to hear it once, maybe twice, not much more than that.

But then the other two is.

Which probably deserve more than one or two listens.

And it really depends on what mood you're in.

If you're in, like, sort of an upbeat, positive, like, making dinner, like, getting stuff done.

John Prime's Christmas stuff.

Oh, yes, we have that too.

That's on our Christmas.

But, like, he has.

I don't know if he has a Christmas album or it's just like a Christmas John Prince trying playlist.

But regardless, it's worth a listen.

And if you're in more, like, relaxed, chill mood, like you just want to, you know, sit on the porch and drink some hot tea, or you're just, like, winding down at the end of the day, or you just need some calm and centeredness.

Enya's Christmas album.

Her version of Emmanuel.

Oh, Spectacular.

Oh, I bet.

Spectacular.

So that's what I'm listening to right now.

What people should be listening to is so my buddies have this band.

I Went to high school with them.

They've had this band since, I think they started it the year after they got out of high school and they're a year older than me.

It's called Couragea.

Great sort of this, this metallic, metal, industrial type great band.

Just released a new album.

It's only on tape.

You can order it off of Band Camp, but they only made like 25 of them.

But they just sent it to me.

I just got it and I am so stoked on it.

Yeah.

And it's courageous.

It's spelled C O R R E T J A. Yeah.

So that's like.

Even if you can't get a hold of the tape, you should track them down on, you know, on band camp or wherever.

I'm just not a big Spotify fan anymore.

But wherever you listen to music, do it there.

I'm not judging.

You create.

You listen to it.

It's great.

I think we talked about this last time.

I've been listening to a lot of instrumental music and I don't think I mentioned this last time.

If I did, you can call me out a noise.

This band from Japan, they have an album called the Black Ring.

I just love it.

Any mood I'm in, I can listen to.

It is the perfect record band you should be listening to the Vampire Squids from Hell.

They're surf rock and yeah, I don't think they have like a full length album, but they're on Bandcamp and I think Spotify too.

So good.

So good.

Is it the Vampire Splits from Hell?

Squids.

Squids, yes.

Vampire Squids from Hell.

Okay.

Yes.

Cool.

I will check them out.

Awesome, my friend.

Anything else you would like to say in.

In closing?

No.

Thank you so much for having.

For me.

Thank you again for doing.

I'm glad that we got to make kitty catchers and talk about being depressed, but also how we get out of it.

Yeah.

Because it is like, you know, we all struggle.

Unfortunately, it's part of it.

You know, we all struggle, but it is seeing that there are ways through it and figuring out things that work for you, you know, and what works for us may not work for somebody else.

But I think the important thing is just try something.

Yes.

You know, and.

And create something in the process.

Whether creating a cootie catcher or creating art or music.

If.

Yeah.

Social media.

I'm not great at posting on social media, but if you do want to check out our social media of stuff.

Facebook is punk love and compassion.

Instagram is at punk love, Compassion, Punk Love compassion.bsky.

social or you can email me at punk love compassionahoo.com and I like I have some cool people lined up that we're going to talk to.

Yeah.

Please join me in the future and my goal is to have these coming out about every two weeks.

So.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Until next time.

Time with Hope, Love and Compassion.

We will see you later.