Art, Ego, Waves, and After Apocalypses: '100 Foot Wave,' 'The Studio,' and 'The Last of Us'

[00:00:00] Hey, we're back. It's been one week longer than expected, but we're here for you each Tuesday other than a few planned breaks. We're Taking It Down, the Working Class TV and Streaming Podcast for the website The Alabama Take, one of a few podcasts for that site. Speaking of the site, I'd like to encourage all listeners to go to The Alabama Take, and for free, sign up to be a member. It'll allow you to comment on any podcast entry or any writing, converse with us, and as we continue to build, that free message.

[00:00:30] Membership will get you some features that we add. The big thing is that we have switched from Discuss to our own sites comments. It's a little more streamlined for everyone, and it keeps it all in-house, so to speak. It does allow for us to create features for members, which we would like to do. For our episode today, it's number 241 in our podcast. We're primarily discussing the Apple TV Plus series, The Studio, and the HBO hit, The Last of Us. As you know, we sit on anything that'd be a spoiler,

[00:01:00] until the back half, so that you can hear the first half with no worries. I'm also going to ask a little bit about the film Sinners in the non-spoiler section, and perhaps the HBO series 100-Foot Wave, as it's back on the channel and streamer, Max. Thanks for joining us this week. Enough from me by myself, though. Let's get Adam and Donovan involved. Welcome them to the podcast. Here they are. I'll take projection.

[00:01:31] Gentlemen, there you both are. Adam and Donovan, hello to you both. I'd nearly forgotten what you looked like, Blaine. It's been too long. Do we want to talk about why we were gone? We were gone. One week longer than expected. We're gone because Adam is famous now. That's right. If you want to hear more of Adam, hit up Sister Ray Davies on Instagram and beyond, as he and Cohort Jamie are ramping up probably shows and music releases.

[00:02:00] I enjoyed the Q&A in Blaine's weekly newsletter. If you guys don't know that, you should sign up for it. Plug, plug. It's pretty good. Yeah, plug. It was good. I liked it. It's a laugh and a half. You know what I mean? Thank you. Thank you. Caleb Johnson, author, Southern author, famed professor. Caleb Johnson was talking to me yesterday and he said I was actually on the phone rarely. He must have been driving. We were both driving. Yeah, there you go.

[00:02:27] And just killing time and he said that he enjoys the newsletter and that he loves how I just let it rip and there's just no shits given. Y'all, if you want a detailed breakdown of an Andy Griffith episode, and I know you do. You don't have time to watch them all. This is your place to come.

[00:02:47] You know, I knew that Blaine was a very funny man before this happened, but way back in the true heyday of Twitter, like when it was all sequential and you weren't getting a bunch of random people. It was just the people you followed. I won't name any names, but I remember this era. Not everybody had a smartphone, so people would like text in their tweets, like waking up on a Sunday morning and seeing someone's, I'm doing air quotes here, tweet from the night before.

[00:03:15] That they'd fired off at like 2.30 in the morning, you know? Yeah. Always funny, but nothing to do with Blaine. But one night he just started live tweeting an episode of the Andy Griffith show. Inspired. I was like, this is incredible. It was so good. This is the perfect use of this medium. It felt right. But as I was saying about Adam, actually, we're tooting everyone's horns here, but forgive us, okay? Okay.

[00:03:41] Sister Rae Davies, though, their first single is up on Bandcamp, but the 7-inch vinyl sold out in what, an hour? 30 minutes? What did we see? It was an hour, yeah. Look at this guy. On Friday morning, 7-inch vinyl. You can't, I'm sorry, unless there are physical copies in England, because Sonic Cathedral Records are with whom they are signed. And yeah. My goodness, Adam may not be on the podcast much this summer and this fall, winter, maybe? I don't know what to say.

[00:04:09] This is, you're making us sound cooler than we are. Dude, what if I said it's not factual, though? It's like, cool. Well, I mean, it's all true, but yeah, it is incredibly cool. And I will admit that I, he wanted to do a, you know, a bit of a time difference that we work around. I set an alarm so that I could be up to make sure that the social media stuff was, you're a collaborator, you're a whatever, and you make your post. And then laid in bed for a minute and checked again. And I was like, no, that number can't be right.

[00:04:39] But I say that because this is, it's a testament to being very fortunate to be on a super cool label. That he's got a, he's got a crowd. Yeah, they know what they're doing. It's not good, it won't sell, though. But Adam, hey, I got you talking a little. Let's, let's the three of us discuss a couple of things we won't mention in spoiler section at all. Since we're non-spoilers, tell me a little about, about the movie Sinners. You've seen it? Oh. And seemed like you had opinions. What'd you think? Donovan, have you seen it? Yes, I have not seen it yet. Neither of us have seen it.

[00:05:09] Multiple people besides Adam, who I respect, have been like, it's awesome. We might try to set this up for next week, a little movie adventure out of the house, but... Hell yeah. Blaine said he was going to come pick us all up and take us to the theater. I didn't really question the logistics of it. So it's good? Yeah, it was fantastic.

[00:05:32] And I, my old boss from my Center for Public Television days texted me and said that he thought of me specifically in one scene. There's a lot of music in the film. And then went on to say all these glowing things about it. And when he goes to bat for something, we share taste 99% of the time. I was like, man, if he thought enough of this to like text me, I have to go. And it really wasn't on my radar before that.

[00:06:02] And I went and didn't look anything up beforehand. And well, I saw it was horror adjacent. And I asked him, are there jump scares? And he said, no. So I thought, all right, I'll go. Perfect for me. Yeah. You know, we're a Southern adjacent podcast. I have to say adjacent because Donovan has fled north of the Mason Dixon. He's an Alabama guy. He is. He's an Alabama guy. He gets it.

[00:06:27] You know, I don't know if you guys have ever been driving through Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, the true deep south, but especially Mississippi and thought, man, there are just like stories in the air here. And this landscape is so sad at times. It's haunted, but like mythological almost. Like there's like magical realism exists in places in Central and South America and the south.

[00:06:56] You know, like that exchange or that idea is once you think about it, it makes complete sense. And there were elements of that in this. And, you know, I've long thought, man, I wish somebody would really take a big swing at a story like that here. And I, yeah, that's the other thing that my old boss said was like, man, they took really, really big swings at this. And I think it was really great.

[00:07:20] So, yeah, I think if you can, if you can go see it in the theater, I know we're a few weeks maybe behind the hype on this one. Although it seems to every few days, something new comes out celebrating it. It seems like. Yeah. Like Coogler was on, well, the video landed on Instagram, but he was dissecting aspect ratios and how he kind of played with that. I didn't watch it because I haven't watched the film. I was afraid they might show a scene or something. Yeah.

[00:07:47] No, it's beautiful and it's beautifully shot. And the use of music, you know, the music does kind of a little bit of everything in the film. It's both haunting and joyful and powerful and magical. And yeah, it's, I won't say anything more other than I think folks should go see it. But yeah, there's something about Mississippi. You, you kind of feel it when you cross the border.

[00:08:16] And this is the Delta too, which is. And when you get there, you really. Yeah. That's, that's, that's his own world. Yeah. I was born in Mississippi, a little known fact. Which part of Mississippi? Just right across the border, right there at, in Amory. Yeah, because Solajim, that would have been the closest. Closest hospital, yep. Yeah, we won't dissect this next one in spoilers either, but on Thursday, HBO came rolling back with its third season. Another documentary series from director Chris Smith about surfing.

[00:08:46] Rolling. I see what you did. Yeah. Came rolling in. This one's a hundred foot wave. I did not know they were going to do another season of this. And sort of surprised to see it back. Had no heads up, really. I was also surprised to see Garrett McNamara as almost the centerpiece again. Granted, they still include Cotty, Justine, Tony's kind of become this big figure in the last two seasons.

[00:09:15] Smattering of other big wave surfers. Adam, what did you think? This is, we're, we're non-spoilers. Um, but, you know, if you've seen, if you've seen any of the hundred episodes of the hundred foot wave, you probably get where we're going. I caught wind that this was gonna come out. It just said sometime this spring in January. And I have been eagerly awaiting season three.

[00:09:37] And kind of figured that it had to be coming close because HBO, we have YouTube TV and I'll occasionally actually look at what's scheduled on HBO. And they've been showing previous seasons quite a bit the last few weeks. I love this show so much. Yeah. Because of the storylines or it's just transporting. You know, you see these locales paired with the piano compositions of Philip Glass and it's just mesmerizing and transportational. I think the cinematography and the music, just all of it. Yeah, it is.

[00:10:07] It's not escapist even. It's like, it's like, it's beyond that. It's elevated to me. I think when, when people, you know, we were even in our group thread yesterday talking about a gardening guy, Monty Don, the famous British gardener that I like is, does such a good job of like providing reasons that this matters beyond just like the activity for the sake of the activity. Yeah.

[00:10:31] And I think that this show is because they're doing life and death stuff. Like it's either like the most life affirming thing, this huge adrenaline rush. And like, I, they're literally writing nature, right? Yeah. Like there is. They're trying to control nature to a degree. Well, no, not control. I don't think they're just trying to be one with it. Yeah. Yeah. And every other extreme sport that I can think of, I'm sure we could think of one that would be comparable.

[00:10:58] But you know, like if you get in a hell or in a plane and you jump out of it, you've manufactured that situation. If you climb up a mountain, you have decided to do that. It's going to exist no matter what. These waves are so transient in time and they have to capture the right one and they're watching weather. And like, is it all going to line up? It's pretty ephemeral. Yeah. Yeah. And it's this, to me, I just, the first season it was, it hit when the pandemic was still very much with us. That's right.

[00:11:26] And it, it made me think of music and art so much. Like the need to have the right collaborators, the need for the conditions to be just right, all these things. And now, yeah, I'm just completely hooked and love, you know, they've done a good job of, there's kind of an archetype for everybody in the show. Yeah. You know, you have now kind of the, the weathered hero, if we could say that about Garrett. About Garrett. You know, how much, how many more goes does he have left? You gotta wonder. I wondered that last season.

[00:11:56] And that's why I was like this season, whoa, he's, they're starting this episode, this season with him. And I was like, okay, let's do it. Cotty, say Cotty, kind of your underdog. I love him though. Yeah, that you, you root for and you, you know, like his, not really a spoiler. Now you see like his family with him there, kind of some personal growth kind of stuff. Yeah, he seems like a nice guy. I still can't believe that you interviewed Garrett. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. That's what I, that's where I was going.

[00:12:23] I was going to say, if you're a fan of 100 Foot Wave or if you're thinking about getting into it and you watch that first season and then go find on YouTube our short takes series. And yeah, I got to sit down with Garrett. Garrett, uh, computer, you know, across the internet there. He was in Hawaii that evening. I think that I, I don't know if you guys kind of like think through like who you would be starstruck by. Yeah. But my list is like very silly. Yeah. Like I cannot believe that you interviewed him. Yeah, he's sweet.

[00:12:50] And there's people that are like A-list, whatever that I would just could not give a shit about. But yeah, it's like this guy has, he has gone to the edges of what a human can do and come back. And now it's talking to my buddy Blaine about it. Yeah. He's, he was real cool about it. Uh, watch 100 Foot Wave if, if that sounds appealing to you. I think everybody should watch this show. Yeah, I think so too. This is my position. I would love for, uh, science to come along and, and see, check my blood pressure in the middle of watching this.

[00:13:20] I bet it goes down significantly. Yeah. You can probably do that yourself, Blaine. Uh, yeah. I like that saying science should come along. It reminds me of that, that office episode. They're like, we got to get YouTube on this. Yeah. Exactly. We'll get science to come to the house. Yeah. Take some readings. In a recent episode of our podcast, I've brought up the Apple TV plus series, the studio.

[00:13:47] It's put together by a collection of creators, Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Alex Gregory, Peter Hewitt, and Frida Perez. It stars Seth Rogen. He's a new, brand new head of a major studio. So he's, he's under pressure to get some movies done and done right. And under him is Sal, played by Ike Barinholtz. We got Patties there on occasion. That's Catherine O'Hara.

[00:14:13] O'Hara's popping up in a few things this, in our podcast today. Anyway, it also has frequent appearances by very note-perfect funny Catherine Hahn, as she's the head of how to market the films. Whenever she's on screen. Mm. Good stuff. We're not going to spoil anything here, but, you know, Adam, I sold you on this one so quickly after mentioning it here on the podcast. It's funny. It's frenetic. I know you enjoy it. All that being said, what's that say for the audience of this one?

[00:14:43] Who's going to love it? There might be people who would hate this show. I think that my wife probably doesn't like this show anymore, which is a 180 from her initial take on it. But I understand the, it starts, there's like a, you do have these very funny people, but there's also a lot of homages to old Hollywood and it's beautifully shot, all of these things, but it's so stressful the whole time.

[00:15:09] And I think that's what finally, you asked, who is this not for potentially, or who is this for? And it's, if you, if the juice is not worth the squeeze of the stress of some people navigating just a total collapsing situation, then yeah, it's to your point about your blood pressure during 100 foot wave. I think everyone involved in this show, all these characters, obviously not the creators,

[00:15:36] but these characters in these situations, they need to go to Nazare and just meditate on top of that cliff. One of my favorite things about this series is how it pretty straightforwardly addresses our moment in culture where we're all superhero movies or blockbusters that get greenlit. You know, is there not room for anything else? The answer might be no. That's true. And it's great, right?

[00:16:02] Like, cause you, you watching this guy's like self image crumble in front of you. Yeah. Of course I did see in theaters this year, the brutalist and centers. So that's true. Hey, it's not, not all is lost. There's hope. Yeah. Matt is the Seth Rogen character and movie hit or not. He, he longs for the day that, that of a quote I read this week from the London Morning

[00:16:28] Post in 1923, where film is to America what the flag was once to Britain. That's what he wants. Just one more, one more shot at the glorious Hollywood. It's so funny because it's, it's so much of what I've seen. I haven't seen as much of y'all, but it's so much like a man rising to the moment and being utterly useless for it, right? Like every, his moment has come. Yeah. He could rise above it and it's not going well. I love that.

[00:16:57] It's a horror, it's a horror movie. It's great. And you see it coming so much of the time. You do. It's telegraphed. I can't say like how, like it is stressful, but like the actor's performances make, like you know, it's coming and they are just so good that when it hits, it's still, it's hilarious. Yeah. You just see the way it's going. His desire to be liked and to like do the right thing, but like being so socially inept,

[00:17:26] he doesn't know when to get in and out of conversations that revolve. It's like, man, this is, this is too close to home. It's great. It's great. It's great. Cause he, especially like, like he's not a villain, but everything just like falls apart around him. Not at all. We'll save some more thoughts for this. We'll actually do the studio in a spoiler section as well. So we can unpack a few specifics. Cause I've got a few specifics I really want to talk about. Uh, also with us in spoilers is the last of us back on HBO.

[00:17:55] Uh, we will hold on to anything that will ruin those first three episodes of the second season, but broad ideas first. Donovan, what'd you make of the first three we've seen broadly speaking? You know, you like fungus people? No, I don't. You like, you like Westerns? Okay. I went into this season completely blind. I know that this is like one of those, it's an adapted work, obviously. So what's happening out there is, is known. Presumably.

[00:18:24] I'm going to assume, but I went into it blind. And so I, that's kind of what I'll be talking about, uh, in the spoiler section. What I noticed with this first three episodes is it's a lot more linear than the first season was. Okay. You know, where the first season goes back in time, goes forward in time, jumps around, has right for these first three episodes and who knows how it's going to end up. Yeah. But it's been like, here's episode one, which leads into episode two. Here are the events of episode two are leading into episode three.

[00:18:54] It's still gorgeously shot. It's, you know, they're out in, in a Western setting that where they were at the end of the first season. Yeah. I don't know. I'm still, I mean, you like it. I'm, I'm, I'm going to keep watching it. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I had a few, I have, I think there's more we can get into, but it's going to be all spoilers. Yeah. I've got big qualms, uh, and I think they might be getting close to resolved.

[00:19:21] So I have some qualms too, but I literally can't talk about it. Yeah. I'm biting my tongue as well. Let's, uh, let's take a break then so that we can talk spoilers on the back half and we'll, we'll keep our order of the studio and the last of us in the spoiler section. But here's something you might enjoy. If you're a fan of this podcast, any other podcast in the Alabama take network, or a fan of the Alabama take itself with its writings, we encourage you to go to the site, click on any article,

[00:19:51] scroll to the comments and sign up to become a member in the future. Being a member could allow you different things that others will not have access to see unless they too are members. It's absolutely free. Head to the Alabama take today and get that done. Okay. Yeah. We'll begin in the order of our non-spoiler presentations from earlier. Let's unpack some of the studio from Apple TV plus.

[00:20:19] Uh, it's, you know, Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg project for the most part, but they've got Peter Hewitt, Alex Gregory, Frida Perez involved. And it's fast paced, usually a 30 minute episode or less. If you're in spoiler section, you probably know a lot of this. Uh, I couldn't say this one earlier, but when you, when you ask, when I often ask who's the audience for this, what do you, do you like this? Let me set up a scenario.

[00:20:46] Do you like Catherine Hahn using a bottle of liquor like a dick? Yes. I think that might be a very recent episode in case anyone. I feel like Catherine Hahn is finally getting her due. Her sense of humor wasn't used well in The Witch Show. The Disney one, Agatha. Agatha, thank you. Yeah.

[00:21:13] Uh, I mean, she was fine, but she was too snarky and, but she's snarky here, so that's not right either. She was too... See, I would consider, I'm considering The Witch Show part of her renaissance. Oh, yeah. That, yeah, that she has, she's had a steady, obviously very successful career. Oh, yes. No, you were talking... But now she's getting a lot more, yeah, screen time and recognition for her, you know, she doesn't just have to be funny. She's had some good dramatic roles, but she's also very funny.

[00:21:43] She's very good as a dramatist, too, because you remember her in that show with... Oh, it was so depressing. Where Mark Ruffalo played twins and wanted a very mental... Yeah, she was great. Golly, I'm almost crying thinking about it. But she was fantastic. Connecticut's Own. Connecticut's Own, yes. By that author. Yeah, well, you hang out. Well, I don't really, but I'd like two degrees from him, yes. I know where his house is.

[00:22:12] That means they're both banned from the same pubs. They probably are. But yes, Catherine Hahn, having a great moment. Gotta love her. But here she's snarky, but boy, she is funny. She dresses like a 16-year-old kid, but yet she's in the show, probably 45, 50, and a marketing exec. You see her and you're like, this is pure try-hard energy. Yes, and it is so funny. And no self-awareness.

[00:22:41] That and her level of just mania, because she always seems kind of manic when she comes... And for some people, that's obnoxious. But the way she does it, it's funny. And they give her lines where she's using slang that I don't even know, and I'm just like, that is... This may not be the direction any of us want to go, so you tell me. But the thing with Matt Remick, this is the Seth Rogen character, the primary guy, the protagonist. The thing with him is, he's relatable.

[00:23:10] I don't know how many times, usually a drunken younger me, where I couldn't stop the slow train wreck. If I would have just shut up, if I could have just found the point where it would die its natural death. But I'd just be like, well, you know, something you said earlier. This is, you know, Natalie said that this is kind of the curb of the show. This is the curb aspect of it, but the belaboring the point, as it's called. I'm guilty.

[00:23:38] Larry David was very guilty in his incarnation. But here, it's not a mirror image of curb your enthusiasm. It's not at all. But it's the same, like, it's what you're talking about. It's he could pull out of this nosedive. Yeah. Whereas Larry David is going to double down because he's just being a jerk. He's a dick at times, yeah. Yeah, I feel like with Matt sometimes, right? It's like, yeah, there's like sometimes he's just like, I don't know how to get.

[00:24:08] The only way out is through, right? Yeah. But sometimes it's like his problem. It's like, dude, stop trying to fix it. Or he believes in it so much. Yes. He won't shut the fuck up. Whereas I think of Larry David. Exactly. He doesn't believe in it and he's just trying to pester the hell out of you. Right? It is funny to see a character so wide-eyed and full-hearted. Yeah. You know, whereas like the, obviously, if we're going to do a straight-up curb thing, they're, you know, they're ironically detached a lot of the time.

[00:24:37] And to see him like, I mean, he starts off. He's going to change the world. Like we talked about at the top. He's a true believer. Yeah. At no point is he insincere. But like, I love that, that he's a true believer. At no point is he really insincere. But when it all comes crumbling down around him, like he does what he has to do to like, you know, save his ass. Yeah. For another day.

[00:25:04] And you, as the season goes on, start to see, oh, his actions. He's going to have enemies no matter what because of the nature of the job. And he's like shocked that people don't like him and are out to manipulate him. His shock of people not loving him is a good comedy. That's good study. He's just a schlub. You love him. Yeah. It's not that he is a dick. No.

[00:25:32] It's just that like, you know, I understand why he's shocked that people don't like him. Yeah. He's not self-aware. Right. And sometimes that's really horrible and bad. Like, that's right on the edge, right? Like the nuts. Because this is like less of the Larry David where he's like, I'm just doubling down. And this is more of this like Steve Carell as Michael Scott, right? Where he's just not self-aware. And if you do it wrong, it's horrible. But if you do it right, it's hysterical. Because like, what's funnier than someone with no self-knowledge?

[00:26:01] As many books will tell you nothing. Yeah. Well, Larry David in Curb is probably very self-aware. It's just everyone around him isn't. And that pisses him off. And here we've got Matt Remick who just isn't self-aware. And neither are many of the other people, but they just don't like him anyway. Right. I just, I can't, this whole conversation, I can't stop thinking about the Warner episode. That's a good one. Let's start there. I mean, we're in spoilers.

[00:26:31] We can name him. That one does it perfectly where, and it's what I said at the top of like, you always see it coming. Like what the issue is going to be in him parking where he parks at the top. It's like, well, that's coming back for sure. Such good payoff. And you know it's there. And he just, it just sums up everything that we've said of like, just be quiet. Just sit still. But he has so much power that they can't. They can't tell him to shut up. Right. They have to placate him. Yeah. Yeah. That's my favorite.

[00:27:01] I did really like the first one probably because if you make Martin Scorsese cry, I'm gonna. It's good. I've only seen three, right? Okay. So, but the second one I think is my favorite with the one, just because it's like, it's like Adam said, it's just like every, it's, it's like an avalanche, right? Like a little pebble starts and, and, and everything has payoff. Yes. And they play with the very thing they're doing. It's meta. Exactly. I know. You know, this is the one-er, the one shot. And then they make the episode look up.

[00:27:29] I think it probably is close enough to a one shot. It might be about two or three shots, but it's close. He, he also does like his, cause he's obviously like, he's on the set, he's ruining everything. But like at the same time, he's so endearing. Cause he's almost doing that. Like Chris Farley, like remember when you were in the Beatles? Nice reference. That was awesome. You know, like he's just so, he's just like, he just truly loves it. And he just wants to talk. I think the audience who, this is not for an audience who has, who just can't relate to that.

[00:27:59] And I, and I can, I have been this bumbling dumbass. Like I said, usually in my past when I was drinking and young, luckily I think I've, I can steer out of it some this day and age, but I bet people who, who haven't had this experience very much are like, I don't get it. I don't understand why he doesn't just stop. Well, that's a very real thing. Put the brakes on. You know, when you believe in something, it's so hard to say, to just shut the fuck up.

[00:28:29] Yeah. That, that one, that one was solid. Now is the war, the episode that we've all seen, we've all seen up through the war, correct? No. No. The last, the last one that I saw was the missing reel. Which, okay, well let's, let's start with the missing reel or start. Let's continue with the missing reel. That, that's the one I just did not like very much. It missed so much of what makes all the other episodes great.

[00:28:57] And, and you'll find this out when you guys watch the next two or three, that it gets back on track and it's really, really good from that point forward. But I just didn't like the missing reel. It did a thing that a lot of shows dip their toe in, like a genre exercise. Yeah, it did. And that's fun. And it does that a lot even, uh, and gets away with it and examines it, you know, metatextually. And, and it just did not work for me.

[00:29:22] The comedy wasn't, it was too much of a parody and not enough of a, uh, satirical wink and nod. Two things. One, it was funny to see how disliked he is on a new scale. That like everybody that he encounters is pissed because he's so cheap that he's not going to let him have a, a rap party. Yeah. They don't invite him to the rap party. And even like his, his buddy is hiding it from him. Sal. Sal is hiding it from him.

[00:29:52] I love Sal. Yeah. Sal seems fairly self-aware. Oh yeah. In both his place in the world and he's kind of shitty. Yeah. Oh, he's shitty. Yeah. He's a shitty champ. Two, this had some pretty strong physical comedy. Yeah. I mean the actual physical confrontation over the reel. Yes. In the, in the road where they go down the hill. Okay. They've rolled down the hill. It's pretty funny.

[00:30:20] And like, how do you convince these actors to do that? Because it's, because it's Seth Rogen of course. And the other is. Olivia Wilde. There you go. Thank you. And they, that roll down the hill between the two of them is. And, and they're kind of making her a, just a flat out antagonist. She's kind of a bad guy. Yeah. She's the villain. Yeah. But I don't know. The, the LA No more, I don't know. I guess I've seen it too much. I have never been thoroughly that interested in it.

[00:30:47] I have on occasion, but not like, not like a Western. What are you trying to say about Chinatown? I'm saying that it, that's the peak. And then that, we should put the rest to bed. And what are you saying about the long goodbye, Blaine? I did like LA Confidential when I watched it, but it's just not a genre I'm that interested in. Now, if they, if they mimic a, or parody a Western, I think that might, it would work for me, but we'll see. I want to go back to Sal briefly.

[00:31:15] This, this is the best role to date for Ike Barinholtz. He's got the goods to do this barely caring, wisecracking movie studio exec. My only request for the writers for next season, I imagine they have this season and they can't, is to have him do more blow. Just, just have him coked more. Because, apologies, but in the fictional world, that's funny. And he plays it well.

[00:31:42] And I appreciate that they, they give him just like a little five minute backstory in an episode you guys haven't seen. And it's just like, oh, well that kind of makes sense a little. And I saw some complaints online that people were like, why did they put that in there? Why did they have him do that? And no, I think it makes sense. It gives him a nice little layer. And he is funny. And he's been pretty funny in most things I've seen. He was in the Mindy Project, which I've seen an episode or two.

[00:32:10] And he was, the very first time I ever saw him was in Eastbound and Down. And he played like a Russian baseball player who could barely speak English. And you hated him, you know, because he was, he was the foil to Danny McBride's very funny character. But, so I was like, well this guy, you know, who is he? He's an unknown actor. But no, he is a good actor for this kind of thing. But Sal, Sal might be one of my favorite characters. I said plays to his strengths for sure. Yeah.

[00:32:39] The studio does a fine balance of attempting to interrogate larger themes. And I think this is what makes it not Curb. It makes it not Seinfeld, whatever you want to, the office, whatever you want to say. The studio really wants to dig into what's art? How important is art in a grand scheme? Who gets to make art? Why do fans not like true art anymore? And more questions I could rattle off. That's impressive.

[00:33:07] Because it's doing all this and still giving us very funny comedy. Like I chuckled aloud and that's very hard for me to do in TV. When watching TV alone, especially. And I chuckled a few times recently. You know, I would add to that list of things that they're doing well that are other than comedy is power dynamics. Yep. Good one. Kind of an investigation of how people relate to each other and how abuses of power can happen unwittingly.

[00:33:35] And yeah, seeing that in Ego, the role that Ego and Vanity plays and all of that. Like not to continue referencing the one-er, but like them begging him to not actually see the actors because they knew that they would. What they just wanted like to fly private to the premiere, right? So they're like, well, they'll just kiss his ass and get out of the flow state or whatever. And yeah, just every time that that comes up, it's funny.

[00:34:04] And I think that may be another reason why I had a little bit of a problem with the noir parody. It just felt like the only episode that didn't reach the heights of those thematic interrogations for me. It did play with the power a bit. But, you know, wondering who gets final cut and a director and Olivia Wilde thinking the only way to achieve this thing is to manufacture a problem. But... Yeah, that's what she does.

[00:34:33] Yeah, and it's a little different. It is funny to see like the A-list celebrity throwing the party and not inviting the boss. It's also a lot of fun. This show's a lot of fun. And just seeing these actors and actresses do guest appearances and out of character, really. I think this is one of the strongest. There's going to be a guest in every episode, more or less. Yes. And this is one of the strongest, like how did they convince them to do that? Uh-huh. Kind of.

[00:35:03] Because they're all in. I mean, when you open with Scorsese sobbing. Crying. Oh, yeah. How do you do that? Getting kicked out of the party by Charlize Theron after Scorsese goes and cries. She kicks him out. She weeps in her arms. Scorsese's weeping in her arms. She throws him out of the party. But who's the actor that comes in and says, hey, is that Scorsese? Is he crying? Yeah, it's Steve Buscemi. Steve Buscemi. Steve Buscemi comes in right after that.

[00:35:33] But they're mispronouncing his name. They're all mispronouncing his name. We may be. That's so funny. I've got a lot of things to say about a few more of the episodes that are on the streamer. It releases on Tuesday. If you're a listener to us, just hold on. We're going to get into some of these, what I thought was fantastic ones. We might get into those next week. Save our notes for those so that all three of us will have seen those.

[00:36:02] The studio, though, on Apple TV Plus, we all thoroughly enjoy it. If you've listened this far, you've seen these episodes. We're going to shift gears into The Last of Us. This is a big gear shift. You're right, Donovan. It is a big gear shift. From the comedic, we'll turn our eye towards the dramatic. The dour. Yeah. Maybe dour is not the right word.

[00:36:29] It's HBO's adaptation of the video game with the same name, The Last of Us. Like a lot of big HBO dramas, this one has big spoilers, if you don't already know. If you're not caught up on the first three episodes, and some of you might have seen the fourth, because we released on Tuesday. Record on Sunday, release on Tuesday. Yeah. So a lot of y'all may have even seen the fourth. So have I, maybe, by Tuesday. We're just going to talk the first three.

[00:36:56] Very spoiler here, and that's your final warning. I have been turning it over my head since the night I watched it. I can't decide if I liked episode two. Yeah. And I'll say that episode three helped me figure this out quite a bit. So I've been turning it over a little less since then. But I kept thinking, do I like where this series is going now that Joel's killed? Yeah. Here's one. First, I'm ignorant of the plot.

[00:37:25] So video game people, don't jump in here. Don't jump down my throat. I know. I was spoiled, which was my own fault for lurking around areas online that have a right to talk plot points. But there's that. I was spoiled. I knew he was going to die. But even knowing it all going in, I saw it as such a shift from this fascinating and emotional foster-father-daughter relationship and what you do to keep your daughter alive in those circumstances.

[00:37:52] You know, Cormac McCarthy's The Road does it better than any dystopian writing can. But The Last of Us and its first season had me hooked because of that primarily. And then there was the action, the set pieces, which were fun. And then it shifts. I thought it was going to shift drastically to this revenge plot. And I just felt the weight of our very real world on my shoulders when I watched the second episode. And I thought, I don't know if I want the weight of this fictional world on my shoulders as well.

[00:38:21] I don't know if I want to visit this place anymore. I don't want to watch a revenge-driven plot. But, goddammit, everything else was so well done and beautiful and staged and acted. I just thought, I can't dip out. I've got to see where they're going to go with it. I feel like we had about the same feelings, really. I'm very much putting parameters on myself here. I'm only talking about the second episode as if I've only watched it.

[00:38:51] Now, when I get to the third, I have drastically different things to say. I agree with you because I also had no – I didn't know he was going to die. Wow, you didn't? Nope. No idea. Okay, because that's how I did. I haven't played the game. I got spoiled on that. I haven't played the game. I wasn't looking anything up. I was just watching it. And so my – What was your reaction? Well, my reaction – honestly, I was like, is this a big swing or because it already happened in the video game?

[00:39:19] Is this kind of a – but I agree with you, right? Where it's like, if nothing else, right, a show that the whole first season is built around this dynamic. If nothing else, it's going to be a different show going forward just by not having a major character there. And so, I mean, it is kind of like a big swing, I guess, to be like, you know that show that you liked? Well, we killed it. Yeah. And so what are you replacing it with?

[00:39:47] A major character who goes by the name of Pedro Pascal in real life, might I add. That's so bad. Of course, this is where people of a certain ilk will come along and scream at their phone or podcast player, but that's what the video game does. That's okay. That's fair. It's probably too huge of a moment to swerve and keep him alive. But what if they did? Yeah. What if they did? I kept thinking, what if they chose to keep Joel alive? So I was kind of thinking that too, where it's like, and I don't have it, but it's just the

[00:40:17] nature of an adaptation, right? And I do think that there's something, maybe there's an additional kind of interesting layer because it's a video game, but also with this video game, obviously what's going to happen is what happens. Yeah. So I think, you know, but that was almost, I feel like what I have to say is really trite, but it's like, what if they had let him live? And that was the surprise. No, that's what I thought too, dude. You know, shockers. So yeah, maybe they just tried, but anyway, they did.

[00:40:45] I think part of that is coming from, I do genuinely enjoy watching Pedro Pascal in this role. Um, I think he does a great job. You know, it's like you're taking, like you're taking away the show that I enjoy. Uh huh. Uh, you know, maybe you're giving me something else, but you are taking away the show that I, that I liked. Here's also my concern with the episode.

[00:41:09] They did take away Pedro Pascal, whom I was invested in. Mm hmm. And they had also decimated my care for Ellie, the Bella Ramsey character, because yeah, teens are absolutely rebellious and annoying. I know that, but they aren't in that persona every second of the day. And this is a piece of fiction where the writers are tasked to make me care about some main characters,

[00:41:38] but they were teetering in that first episode. They were teetering on that precipice of having her character be a little too irksome of a stereotype. And Dina was a little less that way. Uh, that she, that actress found a really good balance of charm and teenage annoyance and angst. Somewhere in the direction or Ramsey's performance didn't click with episode one. And I thought they can't put this whole show on her shoulders after making her one note. Mm hmm.

[00:42:08] But we, we, again, we're treating this as if we haven't seen the third episode yet, which we'll get into. Yeah. And there was a large part of me that just didn't know if I wanted to watch a series that I thought was based on Pedro Pascal's performance and interactions with Bella Ramsey without him. Yeah. Nothing against Bella Ramsey. I think she does a great job. But again, like it's not the show you, it's not the show you loved, which is, you know, either.

[00:42:38] I think, I mean, everything depends on how you do it. Right. Like, I do think that I'd rather be like, okay, someone's willing to like blow up what they did. But I feel like a lot of, this is not in the same realm, but one of the things, and they don't do it quite to this degree, but I feel like, like a great show like Mad Men or Breaking Bad is like, it's not the show it was at the last season that it was at the first season. Mm hmm. But it takes you along for the ride. Mm hmm. So I thought, you know, okay, I'll see where this goes.

[00:43:07] My third and final complaint is Joel's death felt way too much like a death on The Walking Dead. Mm hmm. The Walking Dead was able to get away with that for me because it was borderline camp and it did it every other episode. Here, I don't think that's what they're shooting for. The tone felt a little violent for human on human death. Yeah.

[00:43:34] Well, they've been violent, but I think that much like, I have not watched anything on the first season of The Walking Dead because I thought it was terrible. I did read the comic. And that's fair. I did. I hung out with it for a while. Say, I don't know how well it parallels. But I do think that, I mean, and it's almost cliche, right? But like the thing with The Walking Dead is like, who's the real monster? You know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:59] And I do think like the last, if you watch the first season, really like by and large, they're kind of doing the same thing where it's like, there are some episodes where like there aren't even the fungus zombies in it because it's like the real antagonist are other people. So I'm like, okay, I've seen, I've seen this before. You know, we did end the last season with him going on a really violent rampage. Yeah. He kills, you know, 18 people or whatever it is. So it's like, okay, this has been established. Maybe that didn't bother me too much.

[00:44:28] I also like the actor. I haven't seen her for a minute. Yeah. Caitlin Deaver plays Abby. Thanks. Could not remember her name. She's, she's had a big role these first two episodes, but that, that second episode had everything nailed down. Perfect. Other than these things I'm complaining about. Like as an episode, it was good and exciting and like horrifying and beautiful being over the town being overtaken. And yeah. And I do think so.

[00:44:53] I, I, I was a little silly and I said it was dour earlier, but I think it could have gone in that direction. But I do think that there's like, you, you kind of are rooting for the whole town, right? Yeah. You are like, this is a core of like basically decent folks and you don't want to see them wiped out. Yeah. And I think that part was working for me. Yes. Let's get into the third episode where I will say dress drastically different things. Uh, I thought it was excellent.

[00:45:22] I thought it was like excellent. Excellent. Like I thought super good. Excellent. I thought it was really good to do the time jump that they did where it's like three, four months later. Yeah. Something like that. On the dot. I think again, it's like instead of, and. And it's tough, right? Cause there's the, it starts with, um, Joel's brother, you know, next to his body. Yeah. But then it jumps and obviously the sad stuff has happened, but we're, we're rebuilding.

[00:45:52] Yes. The town. And all of a sudden like the stakes are complete, you know, instead of, which I think is really important because, you know, Bella, uh, Ramsey, uh, Bella Ramsey's character wants instant revenge. And you can kind of see the point that people are making that we're rebuilding. The community is more important than the one and you don't want them to get hurt. Yeah. I was curious if you, and I thought that worked out really well. Good. Yeah. I was going to ask you, you answered it already, but I was going to ask you if you felt one

[00:46:22] argument was better than the other. Hmm. You know, I see the points for both, but honestly, I don't blame the mom who's saying we're sending away 16 people and who may not come back and my kids could get just, you know, killed or hurt or, you know, what can we do at this point? Yeah. I was deeply hamstrung in the first episode and then going into the second of Bella Ramsey overplaying sulky, dare I say, kind of dumb teenage dumb.

[00:46:51] I know a director has a lot on their plate, but it came across as a time where they could have reeled her in a bit. And there were a few scenes where I can make this reference, but I'll just pick one. She and Dina make the decision to stab the cordyceps monster rather than shooting it from a distance because that's gotten a little boring for them. Yeah. And you know, that's, it's not really the decision that they make. It's just how it's played. She came across as flippant, especially there and elsewhere in the first episode and even some of the second.

[00:47:21] Um, but when she does get her dance with Dina, I thought that that was a little bit of a better portrayal. And I got super concerned at the end of episode two, this was going to become a, oh, Abby's the real protagonist story, storyline. Uh, and I just didn't think I wanted to travel that path. Those are personal preferences, not exactly critical reads on the show, at least not yet.

[00:47:47] But now that I had the third episode, I'll say that Bella's Ramsey's performance in episode three, where she wakes up from her, her injuries in the hospital and then sees sort of relives her traumatic experience. I thought that was a very believable moment. And then the rest of the episode, her performance is so calibrated.

[00:48:13] Her talk with Gail to begin the episode where she's about to be released from the hospital is, that's what I liked about her acting in the first season. Snarky, yes, but there's wit and charm. And it's not even my favorite delivery of hers in the episode. Her, my favorite delivery was her reaction to the cookies. She gets the line where she states that your final moment with someone doesn't define your whole time with them. And I thought that she said that, but she also conveyed it. Yeah.

[00:48:42] It was a mature, more matured countenance that she had. Well, so that was kind of like two, and we haven't, I haven't seen obviously the rest of this, so I don't know. But I was like, okay, like with Joel's gone, the most obvious theme is, okay, now Bella has to grow up because her parents is gone. Yeah. Foster parent. Yeah. And then of course, I think the other overlay we're going, you know, is she going to end

[00:49:10] up like Joel, a pretty, a haunted man because of choices that he made. Yeah. I didn't get super annoyed by her being a teenager because I saw, I had like kind of almost like two thoughts with that. And this is in the context of three episodes. But one was, you know, honestly, it's, it was believable for me as somebody who has gone

[00:49:37] through something extremely traumatic, but can't really talk about it very well with anyone doesn't know how. And also I kind of saw it as a Joel and the community's existence and the safety, probably in some ways physical, but also some emotional and psychological safety there. She's kind of being a brat because she, because she can, you know, because there are people to catch her.

[00:50:04] And I think having seen it in the third, and we'll see where it goes, but having seen it in the third, it's like that just got ripped away from her. Yeah. Right. And now she has to stand up as an equal member of the community and try and convince them to do something they don't want to do slash there's still, there's still immaturity, right? Is, is running off mostly the, is that really the most in the middle of the night? Is that really the most mature thing you can do? With only one other helper. Right. And with, with no plans to prepare as Dina points out.

[00:50:34] But, but I, that's kind of the, the shift that I saw is, is she can't be a brat because that luxury is gone. Joel, Joel is dead. That's a good point. I do. I don't know. Maybe. I do respect the choices they made to treat Ellie's injuries as very serious. You know, she got kicked hard, but any other action series would have her up and running after those people right there in the same scene. Yeah.

[00:51:00] It, it seemed like we're supposed to understand that she punctured a lung. Yeah. Yeah. Cause the drainage. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, okay. There's a, that's very serious. Yeah, it is. There's a subtle, but maybe obvious trick that the show is still pretty quality, high quality on all levels. It's when Dina comes to tell Ellie about the fireflies. She brings the cookies in the final seconds of that scene. Bella Ramsey slides the cookies back to her in the obvious signal that when you share

[00:51:29] food, it's communion, it's community. Back together. We're trusting one another again, but it's also the only time in that scene that they're in a two shot together. I just thought that's a pleasant maneuver and it's, that's a quality maneuver, a very subconscious way of showing us something. My problem a lot of times when I watch movies and TV is I don't notice that, but I love when someone comes along and it's like, Hey, you see this thing that you didn't even notice. Yeah.

[00:51:57] Like Roger Ebert used to have a whole like breakdown. Oh really? Like he'd go. Yeah. And he'd go, I got, when he was alive, I guess he would literally go through an example of his was the, uh, he went through the, the scene where in Pulp Fiction, where, um, she gets the, the adrenaline shot and they literally go through it frame by frame to figure out what's happening. I'm like, that must've been amazing. Yeah. And basically the, the question they were trying to answer was why do we laugh at this scene? Cause it is funny.

[00:52:27] People usually laugh with relief. Uh, but also, so anyway, I love, that's a complete tangent, but I love when somebody points out it's doing, I had, I have friends who are much better at film and TV than I am who will point out like, Hey, do you see what's happening here? It's like, that is so clever. Like the crap, the crap. For listeners, I'm reading a lot about this kind of stuff. So I'm trying to see if I can apply it, but you, you felt it even if you didn't notice it. Exactly. And that's the great thing is like, it's subconscious, but not manipulative. Exactly. There you go.

[00:52:57] It underlies, it underlies and, and reinforces the point. It's like great, right? Yeah. You know? I, so Pascal, his character's dead. It's enjoyable to see Gabriel Luna, the brother character, maybe expand here. Yeah. His. I was a little surprised, honestly, but he seems like he's picked up a little bit more, uh, from the first season, I guess. I wouldn't have said, he'd see, he's picked up a little more. Yeah. He's, he's deepened and he, he plays loss well here.

[00:53:26] It picked, particularly in the conversation with Ellie, where he says, yeah, like you know him better than me. You know, you, I felt that, uh, that's his brother. That was really good. And, you know, honestly, I feel like it was a, it was a really good and fair response. Yeah. To what Ellie was doing. Yeah. It was. The addition of, uh, the young man, his name is Young Massino to the cast. Captain Wyoming. Is that what they're called? Yeah. They did call it. No.

[00:53:56] What does it call him? Captain Wyoming. Briefly. Yes. Uh, yeah. He's, he was on the Netflix series Beef and he was not. He's the brother. Yeah. He was not the same character here. He was dumb and goofy. He, here. He's really good. He's got it kind of together even though he is still, still very much a young man. Yeah. Um, he's a good actor. And so it's an odd. He is a good actor. Yeah. I thought it was an odd choice to have Dina and Ellie say it, but say it aloud.

[00:54:25] I don't think it's an odd choice to have it a part of the show, but that he's got this sadness to him. He's got a sadness, but he also still has a wherewithal to see the community grow strong. And I like that balance. And it might be interesting if they said it aloud, there's gotta be something to it. I guess. And who at this point doesn't have a sadness to them in this world? That's true. Yeah. I, you know, it's, it's a little on the nose, but. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see what happens. We'll see what comes of it.

[00:54:52] Well, take Gail, um, the Catherine O'Hara character. Mm-hmm. What did you make of her saying that Ellie is someone who can't be saved and that she's a liar? Some people just can't be saved and that she's a liar. Yeah. That's a. It's pretty harsh, right? That's really harsh. And I thought, wow, that, I bet that's not in the game. Yeah. Uh, and I thought, man, that scene's got some resonance, not least of all because of

[00:55:19] the juxtaposition of Catherine O'Hara's defeated flippancy playing off Luna's somber survival. I gotta keep going. I do think that it speaks to fear many of us have with our friends and loved ones. And people have experienced this, right? Like you want to keep helping. You want to keep helping. You want to keep helping. You want to keep helping. But at a certain point, you can't help anymore. That's such a good point. And, and that, and I mean, that isn't that scary.

[00:55:46] I mean, it feels like, like people kick themselves over this, right? Like, okay. You know, he wasn't, he couldn't get a job or get clean or whatever. And so I had to stop paying for him and then he died. Right. You know, people all over you, you have this. And, and, and so that's kind of how I thought of it with her. I mean, obviously she's the psych, the psychiatrist is very wounded as we are. Are we all?

[00:56:11] I wonder if she's as a doctor, like, it's almost like she's doing psychological triage, right? I'm spending my energy on the ones that are receptive. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not wasting my time on Ellie. Yeah. And I'm recommending that, um, that nobody else do as well. Hmm. Thoughts, comments on the profit group in the woods that get. We'll see what, we'll see what happens with that.

[00:56:38] I thought it was smart of the show or game or both to have completely varied groups of who've developed after this. Yeah. Cause you're not going to have, everyone's not going to be wearing the same kind of clothes, wearing the. It, it works just for like, you know, like even though we somewhat have a monoculture, I think it's a good reminder that like the United States is huge. You know, it's a good chunk of a continent. And also I, and I appreciate it cause it helps me keep all the characters straight.

[00:57:07] Who's who and who's doing what and who's on whose side. You know? Well, these, this particular set won't be around. They got mowed down. Yeah. It seems like they had a pretty bad ending. So will we learn what the, what the cuts on their cheeks? I don't know. The profit, you know, either way I'm fine with it. I'd be interested to find out, but if it's just one of those things where it's just a detail that we decided to include. Okay, fine. Yeah.

[00:57:34] I do appreciate that the episode isn't trying to stretch plot. Ellie and Dina get to Seattle by the episode's end. That's something I wouldn't have guessed. There were like several points where I was like, it's going to end here now. Yeah. I really appreciated that. They're going to set up, you know, kind of something that we applauded Severance for doing, not just, you know, endlessly spooling out them because you could. And I assume with the, I hope anyway, I assume this is the last season, right? No. Maybe they'll do more.

[00:58:04] No, they've got one more on the books, but. Do they have one more on the books? I think so. But I guess what I mean is you have a finite amount of material. Yeah. And traveling with the cinematography was really easy to watch. Quality of the visuals, how they were presented. Oh yeah. The director and DP are doing great. Everyone, like the, it still looks great. Yeah. I thought the ending shot was great, albeit predictable with the wolves marching there.

[00:58:33] It's, you know, it's going to be a little, little more tricky than you thought it would be. Yeah. So I came out of episode three, totally different from two where I thought, okay, they made the turn. It was a sharp turn. It was a 90 degree turn, but they steered the car and still managed to stay on the gas. Yeah. The third episode made me, you know, want to keep watching. Yeah. And I do think in a lot of ways, and it was a good episode, but the third episode was a setup and transition episode. Yeah.

[00:59:02] And I think that it worked very well because they kind of gave it time to do that instead of just immediately swinging into like, you know, searcher style revenge or something like that. Right? It's like, okay, we are getting to see like, what's the next phase of this maybe going to be like.

[00:59:49] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:00:20] So stay tuned for Adam, for Donovan. I'm Blaine. And I hope though, damn you, you're one of the few who got the sister Ray Davies vinyl that I fucking wanted. Assholes. We can't afford it because of tariffs. That's right. These UK people with their vinyls. Yeah. If you have it, let me know. Yeah. Hey, take care everyone. See you next week. Bye.