On the weekly episode of the TV podcast, there are so many choices (0:38)!
To begin the non-spoiler section, Adam returns as he and hosts Blaine and Donovan try to unpack the quirky world of movie 'Hundreds of Beavers,' which truly exemplifies unconventional storytelling (0:59). The trio also explores the audience for 'Disclaimer,' a new series on Apple TV+, without any spoilers (7:57). The three dissect some of its themes and complexities while pondering who would appreciate it. Continuing in the early, non-spoiler part of the podcast, they talk about how 'The Penguin' and its third episode enhances the series as a whole (10:46).
As the spoiler section begins, they get into the competitive realm of 'The Challenge: Battle of the Eras,' where Adam shares what he's learned about certain dynamics (12:44). Donovan and Blaine try on 'Disclaimer' and its first two episodes: what's it about, those big choices, and the directing (21:11). To end, they discuss specifics of the third episode of 'The Penguin' and how it helped the show turn a corner well away from 'The Sopranos' (41:41).
Help the podcast or show some appreciation! Leave a one-time donation here: https://taking-it-down.captivate.fm/support
Visit The Alabama Take for more.
00:00:01
Hey, everyone, it's Tuesday morning. If you listen upon release,
00:00:04
you got taking it down with you, the tv podcast for the Alabama
00:00:09
take. We know tv is all over the place due to streaming, and it's
00:00:12
our goal to help you not only decide if something's worth your
00:00:15
time, but to dissect an episode or two or a movie. First
00:00:21
of all, you'll get our recommendations, general thoughts,
00:00:25
and then we'll do spoilers later on in the podcast. Let a friend
00:00:29
know you listen, and enjoy. Let's get into it. This week, I'll
00:00:32
be joined by Adam and Donovan.
00:00:35
Alabama, take projection.
00:00:46
I am joined by. Hey, it's Adam. Adam's back and ottoman.
00:00:50
Yeah. Thanks, Blaine.
00:00:52
Yeah.
00:00:52
Well, you've been no fawn over Adam. It's fine.
00:00:56
You've become familiar with Donovan.
00:00:58
We could pick anything at the airing at the moment and give it
00:01:01
a focus because there's so much streaming. It's not to say that
00:01:05
we watched it all, but there's so much going on. There's shrinking
00:01:10
from Bill Lawrence's back to fill Ted Lasso sized hole in anyone's
00:01:14
heart.
00:01:15
Is that for real? Back?
00:01:17
Yes.
00:01:18
There is so much going on right now.
00:01:20
Three episodes are out.
00:01:22
How is there so much going on at the moment?
00:01:25
Well, I'm not.
00:01:26
And there's other stretches of the year where there's like, we're
00:01:28
in a desert and now the Rogers. I feel like everybody I bump
00:01:31
into. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that's got Rogers shot, right?
00:01:34
Yeah, we got the backlog catching up with us.
00:01:37
Agatha all along improved recently, and the title of this week's
00:01:42
episode alludes. We'll eventually get into specifics on
00:01:45
episode three of the Penguin, not four. We're a little behind on
00:01:49
it. That's on HBO, as well as the new series on Apple TV titled
00:01:54
Disclaimer. I think it has four episodes out, and we're only
00:01:57
covering two. A little bit later, before we discuss any specifics
00:02:01
or spoilers about either one, Donovan, you brave soul, you dared
00:02:07
watch the 2022 movie hundreds of Beavers, which is.
00:02:11
I sure as hell did.
00:02:13
Is that on Tubi?
00:02:14
It's on Tubi. So you gotta watch ads. So there's an additional
00:02:17
hurdle.
00:02:19
We're not going to detail the movie so that we end up spoiling
00:02:23
anything, but people need to know a few things about this before
00:02:26
I even ask a question. The poster for the film is that of a
00:02:31
late seventies and early eighties style that reminds me of
00:02:34
what you'd see with, like, Cannonball run.
00:02:37
It is 100% based on the poster for it's a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad
00:02:41
World, which is a terrible movie.
00:02:43
It just reminded me of Cannonball run or that old Kenny
00:02:45
Rogers movie, six pack, that really cheesy racing movie. If you've
00:02:50
ever seen those or seen the posters, I encourage you to look
00:02:53
this one up.
00:02:54
It's exactly mad, mad, mad, mad. Whatever. How many man's world
00:02:58
poster just done with beavers and one man running away from the
00:03:01
beavers.
00:03:02
The plot's what a 19th century man. He's got to become basically
00:03:06
the world's best fur trapper by conquering hundreds of beavers,
00:03:09
who, by the way, are played by humans dressed as furries or something
00:03:14
you'd see in, like, a Disney park.
00:03:16
It's hilarious. All the animals are just people in little
00:03:19
suits.
00:03:20
I have so many questions.
00:03:21
So it starts. There's actually a nice moral to it, too. What starts
00:03:25
with a sock? He starts out as a hard cider salesman. He over invests
00:03:31
in the hard cider, and his house blows up. And then he's cast
00:03:35
alone into the wilderness. Do you like traps? Do you like bazongas?
00:03:43
I don't have opinions on those things. Never have. Well, how do
00:03:47
you stumble across these movies, Donovan?
00:03:49
You know, I sent you the review. It was Matt Zollersite.
00:03:52
You did send me a review.
00:03:53
And then somebody else, just another tv writer whose work I sometimes
00:04:00
look at was like, hey, it's on tv now. I just watched it. It was
00:04:03
incredibly fun.
00:04:04
I mistakenly did not look at the date of Matt Zoller seitz's review
00:04:09
for the movie. Was that a recent review?
00:04:12
So, therefore, you, like, within the past.
00:04:14
Year, say you had to dig for it even. I just don't understand.
00:04:18
Was it any good?
00:04:19
Yeah.
00:04:20
Come on.
00:04:21
Yeah. They made it for, like, $150.
00:04:24
That's right.
00:04:25
And, like, there was shit that I just, like, I couldn't stop laughing.
00:04:29
If you sat down to me and you're like, donovan, it's like a
00:04:31
live action cartoon, but there's video game elements. I'd
00:04:34
be. That sounds terrible. Get me away from it. It was.
00:04:40
What style of comedy here?
00:04:42
It's so good. Slapstick. Yeah. Cause it's mostly silent, so it's
00:04:45
all slapstick. It's like a lot of slapstick, a lot of visual humor,
00:04:48
a lot of gags.
00:04:50
Adam, jump in here. What the hell?
00:04:52
It's great.
00:04:55
It starts with a man who blows his house up with hard cider by accident.
00:05:00
Was this recommended to you after you're gallivanting around
00:05:03
New England admiring the fall foliage. There's somebody, like,
00:05:08
we need to caution our friend Donovan about what can happen if
00:05:11
he carries on this way. This is after you've been thrown out of
00:05:14
your umpteenth brewery.
00:05:16
Don't enjoy that applejack too much.
00:05:19
Exactly.
00:05:19
No, it was. It was. It was hilarious.
00:05:21
It's in black and white slapstick comedy. Mostly silent.
00:05:24
The. The animals are actually humans dressed like, I don't know,
00:05:29
kind of theme park, which is great.
00:05:32
It's a great conceit. Like, it just makes everything hilarious.
00:05:36
Made by unknowns. There are no known actors that I saw.
00:05:39
It takes place in Wisconsin, I believe.
00:05:42
Yes. Snowfield, Wisconsin.
00:05:44
Part of it is he's not only got to survive in this wilderness
00:05:48
that he's put in, but he also sees the beautiful daughter of the
00:05:54
merchant who you can trade him, like, a stinky fish for a little
00:05:58
coin, and then he'll give you. He'll give you something else for
00:06:01
your coin. And he needs hundreds of beavers if he's going
00:06:05
to marry her.
00:06:06
Can I ask something?
00:06:07
Yes, please.
00:06:09
You said this is Wisconsin. Is this the Justin Vernon origin story?
00:06:15
It's his great grandfather.
00:06:16
Think Xanier.
00:06:17
Ah. I mean, I'm in. I would totally watch this.
00:06:22
This is really one of those movies where I'm like, I enjoyed
00:06:25
the hell out of it. And especially if you're like. If you
00:06:28
come to it with an open mind of just, like, these people are making
00:06:32
a movie, and that's awesome. They're turning weaknesses into strengths.
00:06:35
It's very much along the line of like. And this is. I'm actually
00:06:38
quote this. I'm stealing this. But it's a good point from Matt Ziller
00:06:41
site's review, because it is very, very much along the line of
00:06:45
them not having horses in, like, Monty Python.
00:06:47
Right.
00:06:48
And just doing the coconuts instead. Like, take a weakness, turn
00:06:50
it into a strength.
00:06:51
Fantastic.
00:06:53
Everyone will reach it differently. But my friends, he keeps
00:06:57
trying to trap some rabbits by making lady snow rabbits with giant
00:07:01
bazongas. That's comedy.
00:07:04
I thought this was a family fear.
00:07:06
That's the comedy America needs. I ain't even gonna tell you
00:07:11
what those beavers are up to.
00:07:14
I'm reminded of the naked gun joke.
00:07:16
Well, which one?
00:07:19
Where he appears to be looking up her dress, and he says, nice beaver.
00:07:23
And then she hands him a literal stuffed beaver.
00:07:25
Right? They're building something over there. There's beaver
00:07:30
cops. There's beaver lawyers. There's beaver families. Beaver astronauts.
00:07:35
This is weird.
00:07:37
It was great. My wife is divorcing me.
00:07:40
Yeah, you didn't make her sit through it, did you?
00:07:43
She wasn't really paying attention.
00:07:44
Okay.
00:07:45
Yeah. She was in the room. She wasn't really paying attention. Just
00:07:49
desperately disassociating from.
00:07:51
Oh, yeah. In there.
00:07:53
What? I've turned on the tv I mentioned.
00:07:57
It's an Apple tv show from writer and director Alfonso Curion,
00:08:02
who directed a few of the latter stage Harry Potter films,
00:08:05
as well as the movie Gravity and Roma. He directed children of
00:08:09
men.
00:08:10
Yeah.
00:08:11
Wow. I'm talking about disclaimer. And again, we're in the
00:08:15
non spoiler section, so nothing will be spoiled here. It's
00:08:19
kind of a hard series to describe in a way, but I think mostly,
00:08:23
no, it's about a. This document, documentarian filmmaker.
00:08:28
She's played by the wonderful Clay Kate Blanchett. She's received
00:08:32
this book. It's mirroring some things about her life in the book.
00:08:37
And then, you know, things happen. Stars Kevin Klein and Sasha
00:08:42
Barrack and Cohen. It's a heavy show. It's an adult show.
00:08:46
It is. Which is why I thought the decision to have Sasha Bear Cohen
00:08:51
do the entire show in his Borat voice was really, really courageous.
00:08:55
Off putting, would you say?
00:08:57
No. Courageous. Courageous choice.
00:08:59
Is this a show for a general audience?
00:09:02
Ooh, wow.
00:09:03
Adult. I'll just say adult audience. I will put a modifier on
00:09:08
it.
00:09:08
Yeah. In the sense that, like, you're the kind of adult who's goes
00:09:11
to parties and you're like, michael Clayton was an underrated
00:09:14
film, and here's the 50 reasons. And what I mean by that
00:09:18
is, like, it kind of has the sensibility of, like, it's an adult
00:09:21
thing made for adults. Less on the. I mean, there's. There's. There's
00:09:25
always sex and violence, and we love it, folks. But less of the,
00:09:28
like, gratuitous and more of the. Just like, this is a show made
00:09:31
for adults, so watch it.
00:09:34
It's kind of. Grown people have sex, and then they often think
00:09:38
about the repercussions of their sex rather than they just do
00:09:42
it.
00:09:43
It's like, run, rabbit, run. It's great. I've never read that.
00:09:47
I won't ever read it.
00:09:49
I'm three episodes out of four. You're two out of four. And
00:09:53
did you like amazing filmmaking on tv? You're gonna get
00:09:58
that. You're gonna get great acting. You're gonna get a kind of
00:10:01
a complex plot for such a straightforward narrative. But I
00:10:07
did mention it's kind of hard to describe. It's hard to describe
00:10:09
without spoiling it. It's a tough one. We're gonna spoil the
00:10:12
first two episodes later if you want to stick around, if you've
00:10:15
seen any of them. I did like it. I'm not saying it's not enjoyable.
00:10:19
Well, maybe I am. I am saying it's not. It's not an enjoyable.
00:10:24
It's not bad monkey.
00:10:25
No.
00:10:26
You know what I mean?
00:10:26
It's not.
00:10:27
Tune in for the gags.
00:10:29
Gag. And the gags are few and far between.
00:10:31
Yeah. Do you like in depth adult human drama stuff with you?
00:10:37
Like a little twistiness?
00:10:38
Yeah, a little twistiness. It does have some thriller aspects to
00:10:41
it, I think.
00:10:41
Absolutely. Absolutely. It has a. Yeah. Throw. Like straight thriller
00:10:45
is what I'd say.
00:10:47
We're also going to return to the penguin, which I did not see
00:10:50
coming this week. Sometimes when we come back to a show we've
00:10:53
discussed a few times, we'll forego the whole who's this show
00:10:55
for? Did we like it? Bit of non spoiler talk, but I feel like
00:10:58
episode three did things.
00:11:01
Yeah.
00:11:01
Capital T. Things. You alluded to this a little last week, and I'll
00:11:05
phrase it this way and then we can move into the spoiler section.
00:11:08
Do you remember when all the talk was that DC is a darker. It's
00:11:12
a darker other studios in comparison to the MCU?
00:11:15
Yes. And I believe that that is true. If you specifically mean
00:11:19
their absolutely shitty.
00:11:20
Color palette, that too.
00:11:23
But, yeah, DC is like the r rated studio.
00:11:26
That's it. But this show demonstrates how you can do dark
00:11:30
in both of those ways, for lack of a better term, and really
00:11:33
be damn near stellar. It's as if the grit's there for the right
00:11:38
reason now. Yeah.
00:11:40
I thought this was this. I think if you'll remember my brief
00:11:44
comment, is it fixed? Some stuff that was annoying in episode
00:11:48
two.
00:11:48
Agreed.
00:11:49
I think it fixes. Not like this is. This still isn't the Sopranos,
00:11:52
but it's not terrible.
00:11:54
No, it's pretty good. Episode three on its own, taken out of even
00:11:59
context, was just good. Yeah. Yeah. I said stellar earlier. I said
00:12:03
stellar. Yeah. Oh, let's get into spoilers. Here's your line in
00:12:07
the sand. I'll tell you what. Let's put an ad right here and that
00:12:11
way everybody can really figure it out. Of course, taking
00:12:16
on sports. The Alabama takes premier sports podcast has a heavy
00:12:21
Alabama lean. That's what you want. But there's some serious objectivity,
00:12:26
too. Join hosts TD and Greg every other Monday as they recap
00:12:31
and break down the biggest news in college, sports and beyond.
00:12:35
Find it by searching. Take it on sports minus the g or head directly
00:12:41
to the Alabama take to stream it every other Monday. Yeah, we're
00:12:46
entering the spoiler part we truly love so much on the podcast
00:12:49
because we no longer have to bite our tongues. Figure out what
00:12:51
we want to say. We're in spoilers here. Before I tell you
00:12:54
about the shows we mentioned at the top, Adam, give me your best.
00:12:58
Three minutes on the challenge battle of the eras. Give me your
00:13:02
best. I thought you some softballs.
00:13:04
Okay.
00:13:05
Is Devin a Walmart, Wes?
00:13:07
No, it's a different brand, I think.
00:13:10
Okay. Okay. I've just throw em at you right now and you pick and
00:13:14
choose a little later. Is Kylan really overrated? How strong's
00:13:18
Rachel is a competitor? Where should a she rank? Do you keep the
00:13:22
targets or is that a weight on the show vacation alliance? And you
00:13:27
can even talk about Josh crying if you'd like.
00:13:31
You're going to have to be more specific.
00:13:35
We do have to call them each Thursday evening on thealabamatate.com
00:13:39
td and I contribute to that and sometimes Adam will. But when
00:13:44
Adam doesn't get the chance, I do like to talk to you about it.
00:13:46
I almost messaged you, but then I figured, no, he's going to
00:13:49
be on the podcast.
00:13:49
We'll have. Yeah, I'll start at the top. I don't. I think Devin
00:13:54
is his own brand of challenger and he's kind of doing it in a way
00:13:59
no one else ever has. And I think if you hear him talk specifically
00:14:04
about the way that he makes deals, they're only week to week
00:14:08
or for specified lengths of time. So he's playing a pretty clean
00:14:12
game and people accuse him of backstabbing whatever. I think he's
00:14:15
pretty upfront with what he does. I love that he knows that heels
00:14:20
are a good time and so he says things like, Kyland's overrated after
00:14:24
Kylan demolishes him in an elimination. I appreciate that. I
00:14:29
do think.
00:14:29
And he flips him the bird right before the challenge.
00:14:32
It's great. It's great because I think he's also able to, when the
00:14:35
cameras stop rolling, be completely cool with almost everybody.
00:14:39
I think him and bananas genuinely did hate each other at
00:14:41
one time. Even that seems to kind of be in the past.
00:14:45
Would you dare say it might have teetered into a little bit of
00:14:47
anger this time because bananas was commenting on Michelle,
00:14:51
whom he's still dating, apparently.
00:14:53
Yeah. Yeah, probably. So that was kind of a low blow. I do think
00:14:58
Kyland might be overrated a little bit. The things that he's
00:15:02
supposed to be good at. He was not particularly good at in the daily
00:15:06
this last week, for example, and I think he may get a bit of a
00:15:11
kind edit. I've heard people say some of his big brother style,
00:15:15
he was big brother guy, right. That some of the.
00:15:18
That's right.
00:15:19
He was not just this, like, good guy, you know? So I think maybe
00:15:23
he's getting. The show is in desperate need of a new face, and
00:15:27
I think maybe Horacio is not engaging enough in the social aspect
00:15:32
and Kyland is more well rounded, and so there, they're gonna
00:15:36
prop him up a little bit. I still think he's very good, and the
00:15:39
vets seem to respect him, too.
00:15:42
That's a real insightful breakdown, and I agree with that.
00:15:46
Still like him because of the edit. But, yeah, you go online and
00:15:49
you'll see people say, I hated Kyle on big brother, and I still
00:15:53
kind of hate him now. And it makes me, who's never watched big
00:15:56
brother, think, wow, what did he do wrong there?
00:15:59
Totally. People like that look good in the first half of the season.
00:16:04
We kind of got that midway trailer this week, right. So they
00:16:07
drop a big trailer usually to mark that you have passed either
00:16:12
a third or halfway or whatever. And as long as Jordan is
00:16:16
still there, as long as bananas is still there, it's just
00:16:19
hard to. To get too hyped about anybody else.
00:16:23
Any thoughts on Rachel being a team of one and winning and then
00:16:27
also winning an elimination, though, I guess the.
00:16:29
Week before, I think the show finally got out of its own way and
00:16:35
acknowledged that a single person team has to have a challenge
00:16:40
that can play to its strengths, you know? And so the daily
00:16:45
very much did, while also it allowed. That was a well thought
00:16:49
out. We don't know how even the teams are gonna be at this point
00:16:51
in the game thing to do. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's awesome
00:16:56
that she, she kind of grated my nerves early in the season talking
00:17:01
about what they're going to find out. I'm a challenge legend.
00:17:04
All these things. It's like you've been gone for a substantial
00:17:07
amount of time, and it's okay if the show has moved on. You come
00:17:11
in, you say you're in the best shape of your life, you have a chance
00:17:14
to prove it.
00:17:14
Now she's in good shape, and she's.
00:17:17
Playing a pretty smart social game, too, and now seems to be meshing
00:17:22
with the house and reintegrating into the current scene.
00:17:26
I did. I asked you earlier about the targets, and they're maintaining
00:17:30
those for however much longer. I don't like them. What do you think?
00:17:34
I think they messed up when they let era four pick last every
00:17:38
time. I think that impacted some of the gameplay, and I guess
00:17:42
we'll find out how they work now that it's an individual's game.
00:17:46
Yeah, it could be better. I wondered that too. Vacation alliance
00:17:51
thoughts?
00:17:52
I love that they got thrown in against each other. I like most of
00:17:56
the people. Like, I'm a Tory fan. Devon Kyland. I do. I said,
00:18:01
kylan's over. I still root for Kylan. Yeah, there's elements of
00:18:04
it. As much as I like Tori and Devin, I also really don't like Josh
00:18:08
and Michelle. Michelle, in a season when she's not the. The most
00:18:13
eloquent person there, like she has been the last few seasons,
00:18:16
they just had to rely on her so much in season 39 just to, like,
00:18:21
contextualize what was happening, and that's not really
00:18:23
her fault that she was giving the best sound bites. She's much
00:18:27
easier to take when she's just part of a larger cast.
00:18:30
Yeah.
00:18:31
Not gonna go out of my way to root for them like I do for Tori
00:18:34
and Devin. So not. Not bummed to see that broken up. And I kind
00:18:40
of love that, you know, era two has the, for me, kind of the
00:18:44
meat and potatoes of the show. Even though the guys aren't super
00:18:48
well represented, obviously, you want wes or somebody like that
00:18:51
there as well. But still, that's kind of. That feels like home
00:18:56
base for me as a viewer. So to see them partner up with Rachel,
00:19:01
that was a smart move. They all just played smarteen.
00:19:05
Do you dislike Josh? Like, I don't want him on the show. Dislike
00:19:09
or do you dislike him? Like, he needs to be on the show so I can
00:19:13
laugh and root.
00:19:14
Against him at this point, he's lost so many times that it's
00:19:19
kind of fun to have him around. It's not like fessy. Like,
00:19:22
I think Fessy is not good television, and I don't like, it
00:19:26
would upset me if he won. It bothers me when he does. Well, as
00:19:30
much as I like to see him humble, he's just not good tv. Josh
00:19:34
is, you know, and to his credit, he's clearly gotten in much
00:19:39
better shape and is doing his best and really giving it a go. And
00:19:43
people seem to like him, like, everybody on the show likes him,
00:19:47
which is pretty rare for somebody who talks as much as he
00:19:51
does, so he must be a decent hang.
00:19:54
Yeah.
00:19:55
I just have to say, Derek doing his thing, I know that was
00:19:59
a couple episodes ago. But going into elimination and doing
00:20:03
all of this with the torn was an MCL and a meniscus. Right. I mean,
00:20:07
his. His leg. I think he. It was an MCL. Like, he's going to.
00:20:12
He has had the reconstructive surgery since then. So if he were
00:20:16
a football player, he would have been gone, you know, immediately.
00:20:21
And he played through all of that. Obviously, he's hobbling around
00:20:24
and he's. He's. As much as we joke that it's the fifth sport, it.
00:20:27
You can gut it out a little bit more, but still, that dude is
00:20:30
tough as nails at his age.
00:20:33
Yeah, well, Adam's ducking out. Thanks for hanging.
00:20:38
I only watch the popcorn shows now. The candy shows.
00:20:42
Look, I can't scroll through any kind of headlines in the news
00:20:45
without despair. Who can blame you?
00:20:48
Well, there's just so many shows, like, we touched on at the
00:20:51
top for, like, everybody that I been playing shows and, like, seeing
00:20:55
people that I don't regularly see, and everybody has, like, hey,
00:20:58
have you seen fill in the blank? And I'm like, well, I'll just
00:21:01
add it to the list because there's 50 shows that I should be
00:21:05
watching right now.
00:21:06
You got to do your homework.
00:21:07
Yeah.
00:21:09
We'll switch gears from spoiling the challenge. We'll shift
00:21:12
gears. First of all, it's an Apple tv show disclaimer I mentioned.
00:21:18
It's Alfonso Curion and take it on weekly television.
00:21:22
Yeah. He's never. He's never done this before. Right? I didn't.
00:21:25
He's only. He's been a movie guy.
00:21:27
Yep. He's kind of known for borderline capital a art films.
00:21:32
Yeah. Except for that one. Harry Potter one. No, I'm kidding.
00:21:35
He kind of, like, straddles the line between, you know, like,
00:21:39
Roma is very much a movie about the personal and the political,
00:21:42
and even something like gravity is kind of. It's a high production
00:21:47
value thriller. I guess you would. Does that make sense?
00:21:49
It does. No, that's exactly what I had in mind very clearly.
00:21:53
Like a good filmmaker. Right. Because, like, his stuff is interesting
00:21:56
and engaging to watch.
00:21:59
No, you're right. Yeah, that's. That's it. To see him working
00:22:02
tv is just a, you know, he's making a clear decision with that,
00:22:05
I think.
00:22:06
Absolutely. Especially that this is both written and directed
00:22:08
by him. And I wonder if it was just right time, right place, too,
00:22:11
because, you know, he's not necessarily a prolific director.
00:22:15
And if I remember, like, I'm half remembering this, but I think
00:22:19
he has pretty exacting standards for his projects. And sometimes
00:22:22
they don't go off. Cause he won't. He doesn't want to compromise.
00:22:26
If I remember if I'm actually describing some other filmmaker,
00:22:29
Mister Groin, I apologize.
00:22:32
The show disclaimers based off a book of the same name written by
00:22:36
Renee Knight. And that just adds one more damn layer to this
00:22:40
whole thing. It's a show with a layer on it.
00:22:42
Okay. I was like, I don't know that book. I mean, I know it's based
00:22:45
on the book, but I don't know anything. Do you know the book?
00:22:47
I don't, but okay. You know, it's a show about a book.
00:22:52
It is.
00:22:52
Maybe a better title for this would have been disorienting, at
00:22:56
least for the first one.
00:22:57
Yes.
00:22:58
You have to figure out what's going on and how to watch it.
00:23:03
You just gotta. You gotta let it flow over you and, you know, take
00:23:05
a few notes.
00:23:06
Well, yeah, a couple mental notes here and there.
00:23:09
Couple, you know, just take note of some things.
00:23:12
One of the things this is definitely about, or it's going to
00:23:16
be about is it's a story about telling stories. And that can be
00:23:21
tedious if it's not in the best hands.
00:23:24
Absolutely. And, you know, I think part of what makes it potentially
00:23:29
tedious is like, what do artists do? Sequential artists that
00:23:34
work in narrative form. Oh, they tell stories. So what do they
00:23:38
know? A lot about telling stories. So sometimes this is like,
00:23:42
this is going to be a story about telling stories that's as exactly
00:23:46
as interesting as Bon Jovi describing riding on a tour bus.
00:23:49
Or like, this is actually going to change the way I think about
00:23:53
a particular narrative.
00:23:55
I always think of Tim O'Brien and the things they carried immediately.
00:23:59
That's a great. Yeah, that's a great example of it done well, right?
00:24:03
Not exactly. Not sluggishly, but also getting the point across
00:24:07
that this is a story about a story or a recollection. Yeah, he
00:24:12
did it and did it well. I also think of all the horrible times I've
00:24:15
heard it in songwriting. It, like you mentioned, where a song
00:24:19
references the song that's being played to you at the moment
00:24:23
or you're hearing. I always hated, I always tried to avoid that
00:24:27
when I would write an occasional song or two. I did not
00:24:30
want to reference the song I was writing or even songwriting in
00:24:32
general. No one cares. Shows carrying a lot of heavy weight. I
00:24:37
remember thinking in that 1st 15 or 20 minutes that I don't like
00:24:41
these people.
00:24:43
Well, no one is particularly likable.
00:24:45
That's true. I was thinking, am I supposed to care about one of
00:24:48
these. Where's my surrogate here?
00:24:51
Like, once we actually find out what happens, that the Kevin
00:24:54
Klein character is the most sympathetic. He at least seems to
00:24:59
have a reason for his action. A good reason for his actions. You
00:25:01
know, something has happened with his son dying, and it has ruined.
00:25:06
It. Ruined his wife. The last years of his wife's life.
00:25:09
Yep.
00:25:09
And also, I really wanted to know what he said to the kid on his
00:25:13
essay, because I bet it was really good.
00:25:16
Yeah, me too. That we know. My reaction definitely stems from those
00:25:21
older teens, maybe like a gap year kind of thing. In Italy, we
00:25:25
find out one is Jonathan and the other is a young girl named Sasha.
00:25:29
Yeah.
00:25:30
Who just tends to say wanker. A bit too much for anyone's taste.
00:25:34
This is really a cautionary tale about why no one should go to
00:25:38
Italy. We're on vacation.
00:25:40
Did we not learn our lesson with Ripley?
00:25:42
Seriously, are you English? Are you going to Italy? Stay away.
00:25:47
Are you american? Are you going to Italy? Are you going to
00:25:51
take a walk around the coliseum with an italian waiter at
00:25:54
night? You could die. You could literally die.
00:25:58
The show is not blatant about any of this. You had to figure out
00:26:02
his name's Jonathan. You have to figure out that there's a connection
00:26:04
to the narrative that's also happening later in the episode because
00:26:10
of the english teacher played by Kevin Klein. Steven, I think his
00:26:14
name is, and the timeline, too.
00:26:16
How are these? Because what we see first is not necessarily what's
00:26:18
happening first chronically.
00:26:20
That's right. And I did. You all right. You and I have very similar
00:26:24
mindsets when it comes to this. Did you keep looking for cell
00:26:27
phones as a time signature?
00:26:29
Once I was like, wait a minute. Then I started. But at first,
00:26:33
when he had the old camera, I was like, oh, he must just be cool
00:26:37
retro stuff. And then I had an inkling, and I was like, wait a minute.
00:26:40
And I started looking around. Pretty soon you're rewarded because
00:26:44
she goes to a payphone.
00:26:46
That's it. That was my signal. It was. Why did she use her iPhone?
00:26:50
That really confirmed it where I was like, oh, yeah, I think this
00:26:52
is in the past. I'm trying to think back if I've seen anything.
00:26:56
Like, it makes, the camera makes, and then all of a sudden,
00:26:59
she's at the pay phone, and I'm like, okay, yeah, this is in
00:27:01
the past.
00:27:02
And you sort through that. This guy Jonathan, who is.
00:27:07
He's a wanker.
00:27:08
He's a wanker.
00:27:09
Maybe we don't know him that well.
00:27:12
You figure out that he is the son of the English teaching Kevin
00:27:16
Klein character Steven. And you also figure out that he's dead
00:27:20
and his mother is also now dead in a current timeline.
00:27:24
Yes.
00:27:25
And that his mom wrote some sort of book, psychological thriller
00:27:31
book, maybe based on her son Jonathan and his meeting of a lady
00:27:39
in Italy, a lady who was little older than him but not, not
00:27:44
may september kind of older.
00:27:47
Yeah. Like he's, he's late teens, early twenties. She's late
00:27:50
twenties probably.
00:27:51
Mm hmm. Maybe early thirties.
00:27:53
Early thirties with a kid. Yeah.
00:27:55
Once those things click, I will say that the, I thought the
00:27:59
goddamn ball's rolling now. Here we go. What's, what are we doing
00:28:03
now? For me, it was difficult in the second episode to distinguish
00:28:07
that Robert is the same person who plays Borat. I know you made
00:28:11
the joke at the top, but I was thinking, that's really the guy who
00:28:14
played Borat.
00:28:15
Well, he's really, really good with, obviously he's really good
00:28:19
with voices and accents. Right. And so I think that it's,
00:28:24
that and just like a little mannerism that just makes him seem
00:28:27
like an utterly different person. Like his talk and a certain
00:28:32
reserve. You know, when I first looked at the cast list, I
00:28:35
was like, really? But it's where I works for me.
00:28:40
Yeah.
00:28:41
Especially against, you know, a heavyweight like Cape Lancet too.
00:28:44
You know, can you do kind of wonder, like can, can he match up?
00:28:48
It does make sense that he's a good actor though, you know, because
00:28:51
you're like, you know, he never, he had to stay in character.
00:28:56
Constant.
00:28:57
Yeah. Like ultimate method acting.
00:28:59
His, his boret and his, uh, his other two characters, olig. And
00:29:04
I'm forgetting Bruno, you suspect too.
00:29:07
That he's kind of a perhaps like a Chameleon ray. Like he's good
00:29:11
at kind of looking at someone. And I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't
00:29:15
know Mister Cohen personally, but I get the sense that he's, he's
00:29:17
good at impressions.
00:29:19
Oh yeah.
00:29:20
And this is a, and that you don't, and this is an impression
00:29:23
of an upper class.
00:29:25
Oh yeah.
00:29:26
British English.
00:29:28
And that's acting, right?
00:29:30
Yeah, yeah, that would say that's, you know, exactly. That's,
00:29:33
that's what acting is. Right. It's just one long impression.
00:29:36
Here again, we got another british show which employs foxes.
00:29:39
Yeah, I noticed that. Did you? Yeah, twice. Twice. And kitty cats,
00:29:43
of course.
00:29:44
A lot of kitty cats on the cats, which we might as well just
00:29:48
get into it since we're on the topic of animals. I had a little
00:29:51
bit of a thought on the only cat.
00:29:53
Yeah. Okay. We got a gray cat and we got an orange cat.
00:29:56
Yes. How they're into kind of everything.
00:29:58
Yes.
00:29:59
Or at least Katherine and Robert's cat are into. She always
00:30:04
jumping up on the counter and she's dealing with it in that way
00:30:07
but never talked about. No, I've got to get this cat off the
00:30:10
counter. Hold on.
00:30:11
Not really acknowledge like the most that she does is she kind
00:30:13
of like scoops the cat up and puts it down for it to jump right
00:30:16
back.
00:30:17
Up again like we all do.
00:30:18
Which I'm like, yeah, that's. The cat's not acting. You know, like,
00:30:22
are you kidding me?
00:30:22
That cats give it the performance of a life. Yeah. The
00:30:28
cats are, to me, obviously purposeful. You know, you don't put
00:30:33
a, you don't put something like that in a scene because that's
00:30:36
just one more thing to handle, apparently.
00:30:38
Like, cats are such a pain in the ass to work with, you know, that
00:30:42
you, like, you have to, you have to really want to have a cat
00:30:45
in your, in your show.
00:30:47
And I would think the same about foxes.
00:30:50
I mean, the foxes have to do a little less than the cat because
00:30:52
they just, they just trot along. They just gamble, kind of
00:30:56
run away.
00:30:56
But there's something to be said there. And I don't have a fully
00:31:00
formed thought, but I hope to by the end of the series. Did you
00:31:05
see the road from the Cormac McCarthy adaptation?
00:31:09
I have the movie with Viggo.
00:31:11
Yes.
00:31:11
Hortensen. No, I've read the book, but I've never seen that.
00:31:14
You never watched that?
00:31:15
Uh uh. No, I read, I read the road and I thought it was very, very
00:31:19
good. But I've not brought the Mortensen.
00:31:22
Yeah, most people have read it, but it's. I remember going to,
00:31:27
driving to Birmingham when it came out in the theater because eager
00:31:30
to watch it.
00:31:31
Yeah. I remember reading reviews and stuff of it. I like,
00:31:34
I heard he was good.
00:31:35
Cody Smith McPhee is the boy from.
00:31:39
Okay.
00:31:39
The film version of that. And here he is, the probably 25 year
00:31:44
old son of Robert and Kathryn.
00:31:47
Yes. Boy, he sucks, doesn't he?
00:31:50
Yeah, well, he comes into more focus in episode three slightly.
00:31:55
Yeah. Also, I mean, but no, he's just.
00:31:56
A character where you're just like, am I supposed to like him?
00:31:59
He's just a little dick.
00:32:02
When you see him at his job, it's like he's not good at his job.
00:32:06
Not really, no.
00:32:07
He's kind of being an asshole.
00:32:09
Exactly. And Steven, the Kevin Klein character knows it.
00:32:13
Yeah.
00:32:14
Speaking of Kevin Klein, I completely. This is so funny to me.
00:32:18
You know how you can laugh at yourself sometimes? Totally forgot
00:32:22
Kevin Klein was an american actor. And I had to look it up. I
00:32:27
looked up, is Kevin Klein American or. No, no, no. I just looked
00:32:31
at his Wikipedia page and it just said, an american actor. And
00:32:33
I thought, damn, I forgot.
00:32:36
He's got a pretty good little accent. And he looked, you know,
00:32:39
he really. It doesn't much. Like with Sacha Baron Cohen, I'm
00:32:43
not having the experience of. I'm watching Kevin Klein right now,
00:32:46
which I appreciate. Which I appreciate.
00:32:48
I think I might have.
00:32:50
Okay, I don't know.
00:32:53
Bad way. Just because I could not distinguish if he is american
00:32:58
or british.
00:32:59
That's funny. Kevin Klein, what was the last, you know, this
00:33:02
is neither here nor there, but I was sitting wondering, like, what's
00:33:05
the last thing I saw him in?
00:33:06
I remember thinking the same thing. Like, it seems like all of
00:33:10
these people are chosen so intentionally.
00:33:13
Yes.
00:33:14
Kevin Klein's putting on a british accent. Sasha Baron Cohen
00:33:19
is famous for kind of silly things. He's at least famous for
00:33:23
them. We know he can do more. Blanchett is just this renowned actress.
00:33:29
It's like putting them all in a pot and mixing them up on purpose.
00:33:33
To tell a story about someone telling you your story, this is probably
00:33:39
a.
00:33:39
Stretch, but it's almost just like a word association game, you
00:33:42
know, where I'm like, in some ideas or of the afterlife, you get
00:33:47
to heaven and you get told the story of your life. Right. This is
00:33:51
kind of the same thing, right? The judgment.
00:33:54
I like that.
00:33:55
Kind of like, it's probably not going to be comfortable for many
00:33:58
of us to look and see our lives exactly as they were.
00:34:01
I don't think that's a stretch. And I think that's the fun
00:34:03
of doing this show, this podcast, is that we do get a chance
00:34:06
to try out an idea with one another. I love that. I think that's
00:34:11
good. In fact, that might pepper my viewing going forward.
00:34:14
That was my thought. Obviously, the propulsive movement
00:34:17
right now is what's gonna happen. But I was kind of thinking
00:34:20
about, there were moments where her husband's like, oh, but
00:34:27
you've done nothing wrong. And then there's moments where she kind
00:34:30
of regains her equilibrium and she can kind of start telling her
00:34:34
own story to herself. But to hear somebody else tell your story,
00:34:38
possibly in the naked light of what actually happened, is more than
00:34:42
likely, unless you're a real saint. An uncomfortable moment for
00:34:46
you.
00:34:47
Yeah, I like that interpretation. And I also feel that
00:34:51
this is going to be a really good show in that there are several
00:34:55
ways of looking at. It tends to happen with good adaptations from
00:34:59
books, I think.
00:35:01
So unless it's something. I mean, I think a good adaptation.
00:35:06
I mean, this doesn't work one to one with all books, because not
00:35:08
all books are like that, but a good adaptation, like, opens up either
00:35:12
some aspect of it or some interpretation of it that really.
00:35:16
That really unfolds from the complexity. Kind of like, probably
00:35:19
one of the greatest adaptations. You know, the Coen brothers,
00:35:21
no country for old Mendez, which I think you can watch a couple
00:35:24
different ways and have a couple different thoughts about.
00:35:27
And it's taking, you know, it's not like just doing the book.
00:35:30
It's taking stuff from the book and highlighting those things.
00:35:33
Yeah. I don't want anyone to walk away from our discussion and
00:35:37
think that we're only seeing. I'm only seeing this as a story about
00:35:41
a story or a movie about a book. It's about mothers and sons,
00:35:46
grief, marriage. Of course, the story stuff we've mentioned that,
00:35:51
like, truth.
00:35:52
Yep.
00:35:53
Um, documentation. In documentation.
00:35:55
I was just about to say it's very on the nose that she's a documentarian.
00:35:59
Right? Sure.
00:36:01
Yeah. How cats are into everything. I mean, there's.
00:36:03
Yep. Fox's shitty department store employees.
00:36:09
Yeah, exactly. You know, when I suggested this show was a possibility
00:36:15
for our podcast, you said Kyrion's work is tailored for this
00:36:20
podcast, or that he himself is tailored. Do you have opinions of
00:36:24
his work going into the show?
00:36:26
Yeah, I like Roma and children of men very much. Same gravity, I
00:36:31
thought, wasn't perfect, but I liked, as a movie, almost like gravity
00:36:38
was almost an experiment in, like, can I just execute this single
00:36:42
concept? And so I thought it. I thought it was cool, and I thought
00:36:46
it worked. And, you know, even. Even with the, you know, he
00:36:49
did a Harry Potter movie, and for many people, it's their favorite.
00:36:53
And I think part of that is because, like, it's the one with
00:36:56
that's most visually striking. You know, the rest of them are all
00:36:59
kind of either kitty kitty sillies or sort of like a corporate.
00:37:04
This is what we figured out the Harry Potter brand is. So this
00:37:07
is what it's gonna look like.
00:37:10
His work is good. I think gravity's really good in that it
00:37:13
ends. It has an ending.
00:37:16
Yeah. I could have avoided ending, too, because I really like
00:37:22
the way gravity ended, too, because it feels like such a payoff.
00:37:25
Children of men is fantastic. And this show looks good.
00:37:31
Yeah, it looks very good. He's directing all of it. And I, like,
00:37:36
I'm not. I really wish at some point in my life I'd taken, like,
00:37:38
a film class. Yeah, maybe because, like, whenever you do, like,
00:37:41
video, like, whenever someone does, like, a video about, like,
00:37:44
breaking down directing choices, it's like, oh, okay, that's
00:37:47
really cool. But I was trying to watch this with, like, okay. He
00:37:50
wrote and directed it in time. Sorry, the entirety of it. So everything
00:37:56
here is intentional.
00:37:57
Yep.
00:37:57
Right. Coming from him.
00:37:58
Yep.
00:37:58
This is neither here nor there, but Roger Ebert used to do
00:38:02
at, like, film festivals, like, a bit where he would, like,
00:38:06
break down, like, flicker by flicker, a scene within the audience.
00:38:10
He describes doing it for pulp fiction and trying to figure out
00:38:13
why everyone laughs when, with the adrenaline shot for what's her
00:38:19
face, Uma Thurman's character. And, like, can you imagine, like,
00:38:23
doing that with Roger Ebert? That would be insane. That would
00:38:27
be incredible.
00:38:28
It was something I would sit through hell.
00:38:30
Yeah.
00:38:31
And I'm like, you especially since creating and doing this podcast,
00:38:35
I've tried to do my due diligence and listen to professionals,
00:38:40
breaking down certain things and learning as much as I can in
00:38:44
the time I've been given.
00:38:46
Yeah. I think one of the things that. That I like about, well,
00:38:51
one of the reasons, you know, I originally started reading Roger
00:38:54
back when I was in college. Oh, yeah. Like, he's such a gateway
00:38:57
to movies. Right. But part of it is, like, especially in, like,
00:39:01
his great movie essays, he always gives you, like, something
00:39:04
to look for or, like. Like, think about it this way. You know,
00:39:08
like he does. He does. He's such a good introduction to, like,
00:39:11
and here's how you watch a movie or this movie.
00:39:14
Yeah.
00:39:15
You know.
00:39:16
Yes.
00:39:16
I love that.
00:39:17
I love that. And that's what I love.
00:39:18
I love good critics who do that.
00:39:19
Yeah. It's what I try to do here or with my own viewing. Sometimes
00:39:24
I don't do it if I know. I'm not talking about it for this show.
00:39:26
I just. Just watch to watch.
00:39:29
We all do.
00:39:29
Yeah. There's a directorial choice I think we can talk about
00:39:35
with episode three next week and. Really interested to see what
00:39:38
you think. I've heard people, I've read people criticize it and
00:39:43
say that it's bad directing. I would be. And how do you come to
00:39:47
that conclusion with this director? And do you. And I. Me especially,
00:39:53
do I just take it for granted because this director's quote unquote
00:39:55
good, that everything he does is quote unquote good, you know?
00:39:59
Right, right.
00:40:00
I can be guilty of that.
00:40:01
Me too, for sure. I can absolutely be guilty of that, at
00:40:05
least with directing at this point. I've seen enough movies. I
00:40:09
can tell if this is, like, interesting, if this is merely competent,
00:40:12
or if this is bad and confused. But also, I think I can.
00:40:16
There's so much more to it than, like, moving a camera around,
00:40:20
right?
00:40:20
Oh, yeah.
00:40:22
So there's. It's. It can be. It can be a little tricky.
00:40:25
Can I admit one of my biggest confusions? And I think it's starting
00:40:29
to resolve. How much do you credit the director versus the actor?
00:40:35
I mean, it's kind of the classic question, right? Like. And
00:40:39
also, like, if you. So if you really look at it, right? Like, not
00:40:43
even. Not even with the actor. But I was. I was reading about, you
00:40:46
know, Robert. Uh, is it Robert or Roger Deakins? Whatever. Roger
00:40:51
Deakins a lot. Roger Deakins did ₩19, an Oscar for 19, ₩17, an
00:40:57
Oscar for Blade Runner 2049. And he's the DP, right? And apparently,
00:41:01
if he's working with, like, Sam Mendes, who did 1917. Sam Mendes
00:41:05
has a theater background, so he just kind of vaguely says, like,
00:41:09
hey, here's what I want to happen, and he'll work with the actors.
00:41:13
But then it's like, it's Roger Deakins who, like, really sets the
00:41:16
shot, right, and so who really makes it look like that. And then
00:41:19
with the Cohens, they're much more like, and here's exactly what
00:41:22
we want, and here's what we want you to do. So even that kind
00:41:25
of like. And then that's not even looking at the actors, right.
00:41:27
That's just the people on the other side of the camera, and then
00:41:29
the actors are bringing something into it. And that, you
00:41:32
know, I always picture.
00:41:33
Director going up to an actor and saying, be really afraid. You
00:41:38
know, I just, like, that's as deep as I can get. Well, let's take
00:41:42
it from England over to jolly old Gotham for a little bit, because
00:41:48
I didn't think we were going to talk about the penguin much anymore.
00:41:51
But there's a. Right governor in Gotham. Maybe he's taking his
00:41:57
pal out to lunch. He's getting wine.
00:42:00
I really wouldn't mind talking about episode four. You're not quite
00:42:04
there yet. It's getting more buzz than episode three. And having
00:42:08
watched them both, I thought episode three was even better, but
00:42:12
stronger one. If someone wanted to come to me and debate that
00:42:16
episode four was stronger, I would. I would be okay with that,
00:42:19
because I would. I think there's an argument to be made there.
00:42:23
I don't want to sound like I'm making a critical reference to Alabama's
00:42:27
coach Deborah here, but shouldn't Vic be wearing button downs,
00:42:32
at least at this point? Shouldn't he be wearing collared
00:42:34
shirts or maybe a jacket without a tie?
00:42:36
Right. Yeah. Like, to suit his new role.
00:42:39
It's so funny because Oz says to him, I got you some new clothes.
00:42:43
And I kept thinking, okay, when's he gonna change into him?
00:42:45
Right, right.
00:42:47
Oh, you just meant new versions of the old clothes. He kind
00:42:50
of like teenage clothes. Okay, fine. Whatever.
00:42:54
He's. You know what? Maybe he blends in better that way. Right?
00:42:57
Cause they do use him. They use him in the club later. Right.
00:42:59
He's not wearing a suit.
00:43:01
Vic came around to me as a fully developed character in episode
00:43:06
three, and with the plot, just had a little tragedy.
00:43:09
Right.
00:43:10
That's all it took. I suppose that's all it takes. But the plot
00:43:14
paired him. Excuse me. The plot pairs Oz and Vic with Sophia.
00:43:20
It kind of took the show out from under the shadow of the sopranos
00:43:25
a little. To me, it becomes a little bit more of its own series
00:43:28
with. Because they're going to use what the Riddler had done with
00:43:31
all the bombs, and, you know, kind of what Andor did show us the
00:43:36
effects of someone who's not Batman and the Riddler and the penguin.
00:43:42
Right. The aftermath.
00:43:43
Yeah.
00:43:44
I mean, they're, like, one of my favorite. It's the incredible
00:43:48
team of Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucker. One of the best Batman comics
00:43:52
out there is actually GCPD, because they. Gotham City Police
00:43:56
Department, because they just play it as a straight police procedural
00:43:59
comic, except it happens to be taking place in a world where Batman
00:44:04
exists and the Joker exists, et cetera, et cetera. And that can
00:44:06
be really fun. Like, if done poorly, I think it comes across as
00:44:10
really self serious, done well. It's a cool exploration.
00:44:15
Right.
00:44:15
I'm liking, too, more than I thought I would. And I think this
00:44:19
is maybe. Maybe there's a little Tony and Cobb. Yeah. Michael.
00:44:25
God damn it. What's Michael Imperioli's character? I just completely
00:44:28
lost it. Thank you, Tony and Christopher. But I'm liking Vic as
00:44:34
a foil for Oz. I'm really actually more than I thought I would.
00:44:39
He wants Vic to be impressed with him. He wants to brag to him,
00:44:43
and then at the end, like, Vic hurts him. He hurts him, like, emotionally.
00:44:49
You can see that this wounds Oz, who is used to the slings and
00:44:52
arrows of outrageous fortune. But Vic hurt his feelings.
00:44:56
Man, I'm glad you brought that up because I was debating if it came
00:45:01
out from under the shadow of the Sopranos with this episode or
00:45:04
not, because I was thinking, well, Vic could be seen as kind of
00:45:08
the Christopher character, and his parents dying in the flood could
00:45:12
just be Christopher not having a mom.
00:45:15
Right, right.
00:45:16
Is it the same beats? And I don't think.
00:45:19
I mean, everything is. Reminds you of everything else that ever
00:45:22
happened. Right. But, yeah, for me, it's doing something distinct,
00:45:27
almost like. Almost if the sopranos were like, hey, let's have
00:45:32
Tony and AJ be a really, you know.
00:45:37
Yeah. I fell for Oz so much in this episode that it's going to be
00:45:40
impossible for me to root for batmandhead when I'll just be in
00:45:45
shambles when penguins defeated in whatever manner that
00:45:47
happens.
00:45:48
Colin Farrell does a really good job of, let's not, like, mince,
00:45:53
right? Like, he's a dirtbag.
00:45:55
Oh, yeah.
00:45:56
But you kind of feel for him, right? Where he. Like when he. Like
00:45:59
when Sofia confronts him about something really shitty he did to
00:46:02
her. Right. We're not 100% sure what it is, but we know he was
00:46:06
related to her incarceration someday. He ratted her out because
00:46:09
he was her driver. Yes, but he's like. He tries to explain, like,
00:46:13
what that meant for him, and you're like, ah, you got me. You
00:46:16
got me, Colin.
00:46:17
Well, it's the look in his eyes, not to be cliche.
00:46:21
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:22
Colin Farrell just has this sympathetic look at his eyes where
00:46:24
you just, like, you're gross. You've done horrible things, but
00:46:29
I love you.
00:46:31
You can kind of see things from his point of view, right. And,
00:46:34
like, sympathize with him, right? Like. Cause he's. He sort
00:46:36
of kicks off a lot of the drama by losing his temper and killing
00:46:41
Sophia's brother in the first episode. Who among us hasn't lost
00:46:44
our temper, right? Who among us hasn't felt, looked over at some
00:46:48
point?
00:46:49
True.
00:46:50
Et cetera, et cetera. You know? So you kind of sympathize with
00:46:53
him, right? You're like, well, I wouldn't want him to move into
00:46:55
my neighborhood.
00:46:56
Exactly. Well, you hinted last week how Vic and Oz are men who are
00:46:59
just alone. And there's something sympathetic there. These
00:47:02
are just lonely guys.
00:47:03
He doesn't have a. Anyone to rely on. You know, we don't know
00:47:08
what his relationship with his mother is, but we can. We can guess
00:47:11
because he has to. He's at the point where he has to take care of
00:47:13
his mother. He can't trust anyone. He's, like, kind of stupidly
00:47:17
trusting Vic. But you do get the sense that finally to have someone,
00:47:20
and then Vic, of course, has been. He's been orphaned and is sort
00:47:28
of making choices to be alone, too, as everything with his girl,
00:47:31
the girlfriend, goes forward and kind of. I did think it was kind
00:47:35
of interesting, like, choosing the company of a lonely man too,
00:47:39
over, like we could get, you know, like, we can get out of town
00:47:42
with my girlfriend and get out of here versus, like, it's a lonely,
00:47:45
mean guy who's not going to be super nice to you, but.
00:47:50
It'S also a surrogate dad.
00:47:53
Exactly.
00:47:54
Isn't that what we all wanted?
00:47:56
I don't think they're overwhelming it, but I do think that
00:47:58
it's like, it's about those emotional needs and those are the
00:48:01
show. I mean, at this point, and especially Oz's portrayal of.
00:48:05
And those are the points that make it a little different from the
00:48:08
Sopranos. You know, Vic doesn't have parents anymore, and
00:48:13
Tony was not necessarily alone. He didn't. I don't think that
00:48:17
his big deal was that he felt lonely.
00:48:20
No, Tony, honestly, between the two of them, Oz might be a little
00:48:26
bit more redeemable than Tony, at least what we've seen so far.
00:48:33
I wrote down that I bet the critics got the first three episodes,
00:48:37
but the first four makes some sense, too. Okay. Yeah, I just love
00:48:41
some that I'd.
00:48:41
Seen had reviewed the whole. It's only eight episodes, so I think
00:48:44
I'd seen a couple that were like, oh, I reviewed the whole series
00:48:46
for this.
00:48:46
Oh, okay, well, then that makes sense.
00:48:48
Yeah.
00:48:49
Yeah. I love this episode for all kinds of reasons already mentioned,
00:48:52
but putting the crime into the reality of what else can we do but
00:48:58
do crime well, you know, why don't we deserve to eat at nice restaurants?
00:49:02
I can really get on board with that as it's been documented in this
00:49:06
podcast.
00:49:08
Right. But I mean, there's a great element of that.
00:49:11
Right.
00:49:12
You don't want to go too crazy with it, but I think it's a really
00:49:15
smart, like, economics overlay that you can put to it and say, you
00:49:20
know, you can even call it like a marxist theory. Right? Everything's
00:49:23
class struggle. You can kind of see that in here, right?
00:49:25
Yes.
00:49:26
And I don't mind what it produces.
00:49:29
Yeah, let's deepen comic book stuff. That's. I'm all for it.
00:49:35
One of the things that I think can be done really well and when
00:49:39
it's done at its best is not only does it deepen comic book stuff,
00:49:42
but using those comics, those kind of simpler things to explain
00:49:47
things to us about the real world, to let us see it in a new
00:49:50
way. That's true. If you can do that, then you've really hit something.
00:49:57
And isn't the purpose of comic books to take something complex and
00:50:02
adult and simplifying it way down? And now it's the job of these
00:50:07
tv or movie creators who want to do it this way, is to build back
00:50:11
up that complex.
00:50:12
Maybe I don't want to get on a whole thing about comics, but I remember
00:50:18
reading with Alan Moore and something that. Sorry, an interview
00:50:21
with Alan Moore, one of the things he said was basically, like,
00:50:24
the best way that something's going to stick with you is, like,
00:50:27
the combination of word and images that a comic is. And I thought,
00:50:31
and I think, like, you can, you can have everything from, like,
00:50:35
watchmen, which is pretty complex and pretty broken down, to
00:50:40
Batman punching, you know, the riddler. And then maybe this tv show
00:50:44
has a little more time to breathe and helps you. You know,
00:50:47
it's real. You're seeing real people on the screen, right. So you're
00:50:50
making those connections as opposed to people in tights or whatever.
00:50:54
I don't know.
00:50:56
It might help to remember that. I think Vic's timeline is that
00:50:59
his parents only died less than a week ago.
00:51:02
Yeah.
00:51:03
Is that right?
00:51:05
He is newly grief stricken and clearly has not dealt with his parents
00:51:11
death in any meaningful way except by latching on to odds, if
00:51:16
you can call it that. Oz kind of latched onto him, too.
00:51:19
Yes. So it makes a little bit of sense.
00:51:22
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
00:51:24
Do you find it odd that nobody said, what the hell's the deal with
00:51:27
this Batman guy running around?
00:51:30
Yeah. I do love that. It's like, it's like, I don't know. He's
00:51:35
a, he's a bat, but he's also a man. You know, they're not overly
00:51:39
concerned about it. It seems to me that, like, if you had been,
00:51:44
as we know, Oz was like, if your club had been, like, raided
00:51:47
and beaten up by a lunatic dressed as a bat, within, like, a
00:51:50
couple weeks, you might be, like, a little concerned about that
00:51:53
happening again.
00:51:54
I guess they have a lot more going on.
00:51:56
He's like the bat, you know, the Batman's busy with disaster relief.
00:52:01
Yeah. We've reached the end of this week's episode. If you enjoy
00:52:06
what we do, we accept tips here, even memberships. We're going
00:52:10
to work that out. I'm in the process of working out. Might be
00:52:13
worked out soon. A couple months. We'll figure out some tiers
00:52:16
and things, if that interests you. Yeah, it's very much appreciated.
00:52:20
Any sort of tip or donation, that's it for Adam and Donovan. Any
00:52:24
last thoughts, Donovan?
00:52:25
For the membership, we either need to call the lowest or the highest
00:52:30
tier the daily bar tiere.
00:52:32
Brilliant. Why haven't I thought of that? Writing it down.
00:52:36
Thanks for joining us, everyone. Next week, probably more
00:52:39
on disclaimer, maybe the fourth episode and fifth episode
00:52:42
of the Penguin. We will see. Adios, everyone.
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