Beavers, Penguins, Challenges, and Disclaimers!

Hey, everyone, it's Tuesday morning. If you listen upon release, you got taking it down with you, the tv podcast for the Alabama take. We know tv is all over the place due to streaming, and it's our goal to help you not only decide if something's worth your time, but to dissect an episode or two or a movie. First of all, you'll get our recommendations, general thoughts, and then we'll do spoilers later on in the podcast. Let a friend know you listen, and enjoy. Let's get into it. This week, I'll be joined by Adam and Donovan.

Alabama, take projection.

I am joined by. Hey, it's Adam. Adam's back and ottoman.

Yeah. Thanks, Blaine.

Yeah.

Well, you've been no fawn over Adam. It's fine.

You've become familiar with Donovan.

We could pick anything at the airing at the moment and give it a focus because there's so much streaming. It's not to say that we watched it all, but there's so much going on. There's shrinking from Bill Lawrence's back to fill Ted Lasso sized hole in anyone's heart.

Is that for real? Back?

Yes.

There is so much going on right now.

Three episodes are out.

How is there so much going on at the moment?

Well, I'm not.

And there's other stretches of the year where there's like, we're in a desert and now the Rogers. I feel like everybody I bump into. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that's got Rogers shot, right?

Yeah, we got the backlog catching up with us.

Agatha all along improved recently, and the title of this week's episode alludes. We'll eventually get into specifics on episode three of the Penguin, not four. We're a little behind on it. That's on HBO, as well as the new series on Apple TV titled Disclaimer. I think it has four episodes out, and we're only covering two. A little bit later, before we discuss any specifics or spoilers about either one, Donovan, you brave soul, you dared watch the 2022 movie hundreds of Beavers, which is.

I sure as hell did.

Is that on Tubi?

It's on Tubi. So you gotta watch ads. So there's an additional hurdle.

We're not going to detail the movie so that we end up spoiling anything, but people need to know a few things about this before I even ask a question. The poster for the film is that of a late seventies and early eighties style that reminds me of what you'd see with, like, Cannonball run.

It is 100% based on the poster for it's a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad World, which is a terrible movie.

It just reminded me of Cannonball run or that old Kenny Rogers movie, six pack, that really cheesy racing movie. If you've ever seen those or seen the posters, I encourage you to look this one up.

It's exactly mad, mad, mad, mad. Whatever. How many man's world poster just done with beavers and one man running away from the beavers.

The plot's what a 19th century man. He's got to become basically the world's best fur trapper by conquering hundreds of beavers, who, by the way, are played by humans dressed as furries or something you'd see in, like, a Disney park.

It's hilarious. All the animals are just people in little suits.

I have so many questions.

So it starts. There's actually a nice moral to it, too. What starts with a sock? He starts out as a hard cider salesman. He over invests in the hard cider, and his house blows up. And then he's cast alone into the wilderness. Do you like traps? Do you like bazongas?

I don't have opinions on those things. Never have. Well, how do you stumble across these movies, Donovan?

You know, I sent you the review. It was Matt Zollersite.

You did send me a review.

And then somebody else, just another tv writer whose work I sometimes look at was like, hey, it's on tv now. I just watched it. It was incredibly fun.

I mistakenly did not look at the date of Matt Zoller seitz's review for the movie. Was that a recent review?

So, therefore, you, like, within the past.

Year, say you had to dig for it even. I just don't understand. Was it any good?

Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah. They made it for, like, $150,000.

That's right.

And, like, there was shit that I just, like, I couldn't stop laughing. If you sat down to me and you're like, donovan, it's like a live action cartoon, but there's video game elements. I'd be. That sounds terrible. Get me away from it. It was.

What style of comedy here?

It's so good. Slapstick. Yeah. Cause it's mostly silent, so it's all slapstick. It's like a lot of slapstick, a lot of visual humor, a lot of gags.

Adam, jump in here. What the hell?

It's great.

It starts with a man who blows his house up with hard cider by accident. Was this recommended to you after you're gallivanting around New England admiring the fall foliage. There's somebody, like, we need to caution our friend Donovan about what can happen if he carries on this way. This is after you've been thrown out of your umpteenth brewery.

Don't enjoy that applejack too much.

Exactly.

No, it was. It was. It was hilarious.

It's in black and white slapstick comedy. Mostly silent. The. The animals are actually humans dressed like, I don't know, kind of theme park, which is great.

It's a great conceit. Like, it just makes everything hilarious.

Made by unknowns. There are no known actors that I saw.

It takes place in Wisconsin, I believe.

Yes. Snowfield, Wisconsin.

Part of it is he's not only got to survive in this wilderness that he's put in, but he also sees the beautiful daughter of the merchant who you can trade him, like, a stinky fish for a little coin, and then he'll give you. He'll give you something else for your coin. And he needs hundreds of beavers if he's going to marry her.

Can I ask something?

Yes, please.

You said this is Wisconsin. Is this the Justin Vernon origin story?

It's his great grandfather.

Think Xanier.

Ah. I mean, I'm in. I would totally watch this.

This is really one of those movies where I'm like, I enjoyed the hell out of it. And especially if you're like. If you come to it with an open mind of just, like, these people are making a movie, and that's awesome. They're turning weaknesses into strengths. It's very much along the line of like. And this is. I'm actually quote this. I'm stealing this. But it's a good point from Matt Ziller site's review, because it is very, very much along the line of them not having horses in, like, Monty Python.

Right.

And just doing the coconuts instead. Like, take a weakness, turn it into a strength.

Fantastic.

Everyone will reach it differently. But my friends, he keeps trying to trap some rabbits by making lady snow rabbits with giant bazongas. That's comedy.

I thought this was a family fear.

That's the comedy America needs. I ain't even gonna tell you what those beavers are up to.

I'm reminded of the naked gun joke.

Well, which one?

Where he appears to be looking up her dress, and he says, nice beaver. And then she hands him a literal stuffed beaver.

Right? They're building something over there. There's beaver cops. There's beaver lawyers. There's beaver families. Beaver astronauts.

This is weird.

It was great. My wife is divorcing me.

Yeah, you didn't make her sit through it, did you?

She wasn't really paying attention.

Okay.

Yeah. She was in the room. She wasn't really paying attention. Just desperately disassociating from.

Oh, yeah. In there.

What? I've turned on the tv I mentioned.

It's an Apple tv show from writer and director Alfonso Curion, who directed a few of the latter stage Harry Potter films, as well as the movie Gravity and Roma. He directed children of men.

Yeah.

Wow. I'm talking about disclaimer. And again, we're in the non spoiler section, so nothing will be spoiled here. It's kind of a hard series to describe in a way, but I think mostly, no, it's about a. This document, documentarian filmmaker. She's played by the wonderful Clay Kate Blanchett. She's received this book. It's mirroring some things about her life in the book. And then, you know, things happen. Stars Kevin Klein and Sasha Barrack and Cohen. It's a heavy show. It's an adult show.

It is. Which is why I thought the decision to have Sasha Bear Cohen do the entire show in his Borat voice was really, really courageous.

Off putting, would you say?

No. Courageous. Courageous choice.

Is this a show for a general audience?

Ooh, wow.

Adult. I'll just say adult audience. I will put a modifier on it.

Yeah. In the sense that, like, you're the kind of adult who's goes to parties and you're like, michael Clayton was an underrated film, and here's the 50 reasons. And what I mean by that is, like, it kind of has the sensibility of, like, it's an adult thing made for adults. Less on the. I mean, there's. There's. There's always sex and violence, and we love it, folks. But less of the, like, gratuitous and more of the. Just like, this is a show made for adults, so watch it.

It's kind of. Grown people have sex, and then they often think about the repercussions of their sex rather than they just do it.

It's like, run, rabbit, run. It's great. I've never read that. I won't ever read it.

I'm three episodes out of four. You're two out of four. And did you like amazing filmmaking on tv? You're gonna get that. You're gonna get great acting. You're gonna get a kind of a complex plot for such a straightforward narrative. But I did mention it's kind of hard to describe. It's hard to describe without spoiling it. It's a tough one. We're gonna spoil the first two episodes later if you want to stick around, if you've seen any of them. I did like it. I'm not saying it's not enjoyable. Well, maybe I am. I am saying it's not. It's not an enjoyable. It's not bad monkey.

No.

You know what I mean?

It's not.

Tune in for the gags.

Gag. And the gags are few and far between.

Yeah. Do you like in depth adult human drama stuff with you?

Like a little twistiness?

Yeah, a little twistiness. It does have some thriller aspects to it, I think.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It has a. Yeah. Throw. Like straight thriller is what I'd say.

We're also going to return to the penguin, which I did not see coming this week. Sometimes when we come back to a show we've discussed a few times, we'll forego the whole who's this show for? Did we like it? Bit of non spoiler talk, but I feel like episode three did things.

Yeah.

Capital T. Things. You alluded to this a little last week, and I'll phrase it this way and then we can move into the spoiler section. Do you remember when all the talk was that DC is a darker. It's a darker other studios in comparison to the MCU?

Yes. And I believe that that is true. If you specifically mean their absolutely shitty.

Color palette, that too.

But, yeah, DC is like the r rated studio.

That's it. But this show demonstrates how you can do dark in both of those ways, for lack of a better term, and really be damn near stellar. It's as if the grit's there for the right reason now. Yeah.

I thought this was this. I think if you'll remember my brief comment, is it fixed? Some stuff that was annoying in episode two.

Agreed.

I think it fixes. Not like this is. This still isn't the Sopranos, but it's not terrible.

No, it's pretty good. Episode three on its own, taken out of even context, was just good. Yeah. Yeah. I said stellar earlier. I said stellar. Yeah. Oh, let's get into spoilers. Here's your line in the sand. I'll tell you what. Let's put an ad right here and that way everybody can really figure it out. Of course, taking on sports. The Alabama takes premier sports podcast has a heavy Alabama lean. That's what you want. But there's some serious objectivity, too. Join hosts TD and Greg every other Monday as they recap and break down the biggest news in college, sports and beyond. Find it by searching. Take it on sports minus the g or head directly to the Alabama take to stream it every other Monday. Yeah, we're entering the spoiler part we truly love so much on the podcast because we no longer have to bite our tongues. Figure out what we want to say. We're in spoilers here. Before I tell you about the shows we mentioned at the top, Adam, give me your best. Three minutes on the challenge battle of the eras. Give me your best. I thought you some softballs.

Okay.

Is Devin a Walmart, Wes?

No, it's a different brand, I think.

Okay. Okay. I've just throw em at you right now and you pick and choose a little later. Is Kylan really overrated? How strong's Rachel is a competitor? Where should a she rank? Do you keep the targets or is that a weight on the show vacation alliance? And you can even talk about Josh crying if you'd like.

You're going to have to be more specific.

We do have to call them each Thursday evening on thealabamatate.com td and I contribute to that and sometimes Adam will. But when Adam doesn't get the chance, I do like to talk to you about it. I almost messaged you, but then I figured, no, he's going to be on the podcast.

We'll have. Yeah, I'll start at the top. I don't. I think Devin is his own brand of challenger and he's kind of doing it in a way no one else ever has. And I think if you hear him talk specifically about the way that he makes deals, they're only week to week or for specified lengths of time. So he's playing a pretty clean game and people accuse him of backstabbing whatever. I think he's pretty upfront with what he does. I love that he knows that heels are a good time and so he says things like, Kyland's overrated after Kylan demolishes him in an elimination. I appreciate that. I do think.

And he flips him the bird right before the challenge.

It's great. It's great because I think he's also able to, when the cameras stop rolling, be completely cool with almost everybody. I think him and bananas genuinely did hate each other at one time. Even that seems to kind of be in the past.

Would you dare say it might have teetered into a little bit of anger this time because bananas was commenting on Michelle, whom he's still dating, apparently.

Yeah. Yeah, probably. So that was kind of a low blow. I do think Kyland might be overrated a little bit. The things that he's supposed to be good at. He was not particularly good at in the daily this last week, for example, and I think he may get a bit of a kind edit. I've heard people say some of his big brother style, he was big brother guy, right. That some of the.

That's right.

He was not just this, like, good guy, you know? So I think maybe he's getting. The show is in desperate need of a new face, and I think maybe Horacio is not engaging enough in the social aspect and Kyland is more well rounded, and so there, they're gonna prop him up a little bit. I still think he's very good, and the vets seem to respect him, too.

That's a real insightful breakdown, and I agree with that. Still like him because of the edit. But, yeah, you go online and you'll see people say, I hated Kyle on big brother, and I still kind of hate him now. And it makes me, who's never watched big brother, think, wow, what did he do wrong there?

Totally. People like that look good in the first half of the season. We kind of got that midway trailer this week, right. So they drop a big trailer usually to mark that you have passed either a third or halfway or whatever. And as long as Jordan is still there, as long as bananas is still there, it's just hard to. To get too hyped about anybody else.

Any thoughts on Rachel being a team of one and winning and then also winning an elimination, though, I guess the.

Week before, I think the show finally got out of its own way and acknowledged that a single person team has to have a challenge that can play to its strengths, you know? And so the daily very much did, while also it allowed. That was a well thought out. We don't know how even the teams are gonna be at this point in the game thing to do. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's awesome that she, she kind of grated my nerves early in the season talking about what they're going to find out. I'm a challenge legend. All these things. It's like you've been gone for a substantial amount of time, and it's okay if the show has moved on. You come in, you say you're in the best shape of your life, you have a chance to prove it.

Now she's in good shape, and she's.

Playing a pretty smart social game, too, and now seems to be meshing with the house and reintegrating into the current scene.

I did. I asked you earlier about the targets, and they're maintaining those for however much longer. I don't like them. What do you think?

I think they messed up when they let era four pick last every time. I think that impacted some of the gameplay, and I guess we'll find out how they work now that it's an individual's game.

Yeah, it could be better. I wondered that too. Vacation alliance thoughts?

I love that they got thrown in against each other. I like most of the people. Like, I'm a Tory fan. Devon Kyland. I do. I said, kylan's over. I still root for Kylan. Yeah, there's elements of it. As much as I like Tori and Devin, I also really don't like Josh and Michelle. Michelle, in a season when she's not the. The most eloquent person there, like she has been the last few seasons, they just had to rely on her so much in season 39 just to, like, contextualize what was happening, and that's not really her fault that she was giving the best sound bites. She's much easier to take when she's just part of a larger cast.

Yeah.

Not gonna go out of my way to root for them like I do for Tori and Devin. So not. Not bummed to see that broken up. And I kind of love that, you know, era two has the, for me, kind of the meat and potatoes of the show. Even though the guys aren't super well represented, obviously, you want wes or somebody like that there as well. But still, that's kind of. That feels like home base for me as a viewer. So to see them partner up with Rachel, that was a smart move. They all just played smarteen.

Do you dislike Josh? Like, I don't want him on the show. Dislike or do you dislike him? Like, he needs to be on the show so I can laugh and root.

Against him at this point, he's lost so many times that it's kind of fun to have him around. It's not like fessy. Like, I think Fessy is not good television, and I don't like, it would upset me if he won. It bothers me when he does. Well, as much as I like to see him humble, he's just not good tv. Josh is, you know, and to his credit, he's clearly gotten in much better shape and is doing his best and really giving it a go. And people seem to like him, like, everybody on the show likes him, which is pretty rare for somebody who talks as much as he does, so he must be a decent hang.

Yeah.

I just have to say, Derek doing his thing, I know that was a couple episodes ago. But going into elimination and doing all of this with the torn was an MCL and a meniscus. Right. I mean, his. His leg. I think he. It was an MCL. Like, he's going to. He has had the reconstructive surgery since then. So if he were a football player, he would have been gone, you know, immediately. And he played through all of that. Obviously, he's hobbling around and he's. He's. As much as we joke that it's the fifth sport, it. You can gut it out a little bit more, but still, that dude is tough as nails at his age.

Yeah, well, Adam's ducking out. Thanks for hanging.

I only watch the popcorn shows now. The candy shows.

Look, I can't scroll through any kind of headlines in the news without despair. Who can blame you?

Well, there's just so many shows, like, we touched on at the top for, like, everybody that I been playing shows and, like, seeing people that I don't regularly see, and everybody has, like, hey, have you seen fill in the blank? And I'm like, well, I'll just add it to the list because there's 50 shows that I should be watching right now.

You got to do your homework.

Yeah.

We'll switch gears from spoiling the challenge. We'll shift gears. First of all, it's an Apple tv show disclaimer I mentioned. It's Alfonso Curion and take it on weekly television.

Yeah. He's never. He's never done this before. Right? I didn't. He's only. He's been a movie guy.

Yep. He's kind of known for borderline capital a art films.

Yeah. Except for that one. Harry Potter one. No, I'm kidding. He kind of, like, straddles the line between, you know, like, Roma is very much a movie about the personal and the political, and even something like gravity is kind of. It's a high production value thriller. I guess you would. Does that make sense?

It does. No, that's exactly what I had in mind very clearly.

Like a good filmmaker. Right. Because, like, his stuff is interesting and engaging to watch.

No, you're right. Yeah, that's. That's it. To see him working tv is just a, you know, he's making a clear decision with that, I think.

Absolutely. Especially that this is both written and directed by him. And I wonder if it was just right time, right place, too, because, you know, he's not necessarily a prolific director. And if I remember, like, I'm half remembering this, but I think he has pretty exacting standards for his projects. And sometimes they don't go off. Cause he won't. He doesn't want to compromise. If I remember if I'm actually describing some other filmmaker, Mister Groin, I apologize.

The show disclaimers based off a book of the same name written by Renee Knight. And that just adds one more damn layer to this whole thing. It's a show with a layer on it.

Okay. I was like, I don't know that book. I mean, I know it's based on the book, but I don't know anything. Do you know the book?

I don't, but okay. You know, it's a show about a book.

It is.

Maybe a better title for this would have been disorienting, at least for the first one.

Yes.

You have to figure out what's going on and how to watch it.

You just gotta. You gotta let it flow over you and, you know, take a few notes.

Well, yeah, a couple mental notes here and there.

Couple, you know, just take note of some things.

One of the things this is definitely about, or it's going to be about is it's a story about telling stories. And that can be tedious if it's not in the best hands.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think part of what makes it potentially tedious is like, what do artists do? Sequential artists that work in narrative form. Oh, they tell stories. So what do they know? A lot about telling stories. So sometimes this is like, this is going to be a story about telling stories that's as exactly as interesting as Bon Jovi describing riding on a tour bus. Or like, this is actually going to change the way I think about a particular narrative.

I always think of Tim O'Brien and the things they carried immediately.

That's a great. Yeah, that's a great example of it done well, right?

Not exactly. Not sluggishly, but also getting the point across that this is a story about a story or a recollection. Yeah, he did it and did it well. I also think of all the horrible times I've heard it in songwriting. It, like you mentioned, where a song references the song that's being played to you at the moment or you're hearing. I always hated, I always tried to avoid that when I would write an occasional song or two. I did not want to reference the song I was writing or even songwriting in general. No one cares. Shows carrying a lot of heavy weight. I remember thinking in that 1st 15 or 20 minutes that I don't like these people.

Well, no one is particularly likable.

That's true. I was thinking, am I supposed to care about one of these. Where's my surrogate here?

Like, once we actually find out what happens, that the Kevin Klein character is the most sympathetic. He at least seems to have a reason for his action. A good reason for his actions. You know, something has happened with his son dying, and it has ruined. It. Ruined his wife. The last years of his wife's life.

Yep.

And also, I really wanted to know what he said to the kid on his essay, because I bet it was really good.

Yeah, me too. That we know. My reaction definitely stems from those older teens, maybe like a gap year kind of thing. In Italy, we find out one is Jonathan and the other is a young girl named Sasha.

Yeah.

Who just tends to say wanker. A bit too much for anyone's taste.

This is really a cautionary tale about why no one should go to Italy. We're on vacation.

Did we not learn our lesson with Ripley?

Seriously, are you English? Are you going to Italy? Stay away. Are you american? Are you going to Italy? Are you going to take a walk around the coliseum with an italian waiter at night? You could die. You could literally die.

The show is not blatant about any of this. You had to figure out his name's Jonathan. You have to figure out that there's a connection to the narrative that's also happening later in the episode because of the english teacher played by Kevin Klein. Steven, I think his name is, and the timeline, too.

How are these? Because what we see first is not necessarily what's happening first chronically.

That's right. And I did. You all right. You and I have very similar mindsets when it comes to this. Did you keep looking for cell phones as a time signature?

Once I was like, wait a minute. Then I started. But at first, when he had the old camera, I was like, oh, he must just be cool retro stuff. And then I had an inkling, and I was like, wait a minute. And I started looking around. Pretty soon you're rewarded because she goes to a payphone.

That's it. That was my signal. It was. Why did she use her iPhone?

That really confirmed it where I was like, oh, yeah, I think this is in the past. I'm trying to think back if I've seen anything. Like, it makes, the camera makes, and then all of a sudden, she's at the pay phone, and I'm like, okay, yeah, this is in the past.

And you sort through that. This guy Jonathan, who is.

He's a wanker.

He's a wanker.

Maybe we don't know him that well.

You figure out that he is the son of the English teaching Kevin Klein character Steven. And you also figure out that he's dead and his mother is also now dead in a current timeline.

Yes.

And that his mom wrote some sort of book, psychological thriller book, maybe based on her son Jonathan and his meeting of a lady in Italy, a lady who was little older than him but not, not may september kind of older.

Yeah. Like he's, he's late teens, early twenties. She's late twenties probably.

Mm hmm. Maybe early thirties.

Early thirties with a kid. Yeah.

Once those things click, I will say that the, I thought the goddamn ball's rolling now. Here we go. What's, what are we doing now? For me, it was difficult in the second episode to distinguish that Robert is the same person who plays Borat. I know you made the joke at the top, but I was thinking, that's really the guy who played Borat.

Well, he's really, really good with, obviously he's really good with voices and accents. Right. And so I think that it's, that and just like a little mannerism that just makes him seem like an utterly different person. Like his talk and a certain reserve. You know, when I first looked at the cast list, I was like, really? But it's where I works for me.

Yeah.

Especially against, you know, a heavyweight like Cape Lancet too. You know, can you do kind of wonder, like can, can he match up?

It does make sense that he's a good actor though, you know, because you're like, you know, he never, he had to stay in character. Constant.

Yeah. Like ultimate method acting.

His, his boret and his, uh, his other two characters, olig. And I'm forgetting Bruno, you suspect too.

That he's kind of a perhaps like a Chameleon ray. Like he's good at kind of looking at someone. And I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't know Mister Cohen personally, but I get the sense that he's, he's good at impressions.

Oh yeah.

And this is a, and that you don't, and this is an impression of an upper class.

Oh yeah.

British English.

And that's acting, right?

Yeah, yeah, that would say that's, you know, exactly. That's, that's what acting is. Right. It's just one long impression.

Here again, we got another british show which employs foxes.

Yeah, I noticed that. Did you? Yeah, twice. Twice. And kitty cats, of course.

A lot of kitty cats on the cats, which we might as well just get into it since we're on the topic of animals. I had a little bit of a thought on the only cat.

Yeah. Okay. We got a gray cat and we got an orange cat.

Yes. How they're into kind of everything.

Yes.

Or at least Katherine and Robert's cat are into. She always jumping up on the counter and she's dealing with it in that way but never talked about. No, I've got to get this cat off the counter. Hold on.

Not really acknowledge like the most that she does is she kind of like scoops the cat up and puts it down for it to jump right back.

Up again like we all do.

Which I'm like, yeah, that's. The cat's not acting. You know, like, are you kidding me?

That cats give it the performance of a life. Yeah. The cats are, to me, obviously purposeful. You know, you don't put a, you don't put something like that in a scene because that's just one more thing to handle, apparently.

Like, cats are such a pain in the ass to work with, you know, that you, like, you have to, you have to really want to have a cat in your, in your show.

And I would think the same about foxes.

I mean, the foxes have to do a little less than the cat because they just, they just trot along. They just gamble, kind of run away.

But there's something to be said there. And I don't have a fully formed thought, but I hope to by the end of the series. Did you see the road from the Cormac McCarthy adaptation?

I have the movie with Viggo.

Yes.

Hortensen. No, I've read the book, but I've never seen that.

You never watched that?

Uh uh. No, I read, I read the road and I thought it was very, very good. But I've not brought the Mortensen.

Yeah, most people have read it, but it's. I remember going to, driving to Birmingham when it came out in the theater because eager to watch it.

Yeah. I remember reading reviews and stuff of it. I like, I heard he was good.

Cody Smith McPhee is the boy from.

Okay.

The film version of that. And here he is, the probably 25 year old son of Robert and Kathryn.

Yes. Boy, he sucks, doesn't he?

Yeah, well, he comes into more focus in episode three slightly.

Yeah. Also, I mean, but no, he's just.

A character where you're just like, am I supposed to like him? He's just a little dick.

When you see him at his job, it's like he's not good at his job.

Not really, no.

He's kind of being an asshole.

Exactly. And Steven, the Kevin Klein character knows it.

Yeah.

Speaking of Kevin Klein, I completely. This is so funny to me. You know how you can laugh at yourself sometimes? Totally forgot Kevin Klein was an american actor. And I had to look it up. I looked up, is Kevin Klein American or. No, no, no. I just looked at his Wikipedia page and it just said, an american actor. And I thought, damn, I forgot.

He's got a pretty good little accent. And he looked, you know, he really. It doesn't much. Like with Sacha Baron Cohen, I'm not having the experience of. I'm watching Kevin Klein right now, which I appreciate. Which I appreciate.

I think I might have.

Okay, I don't know.

Bad way. Just because I could not distinguish if he is american or british.

That's funny. Kevin Klein, what was the last, you know, this is neither here nor there, but I was sitting wondering, like, what's the last thing I saw him in?

I remember thinking the same thing. Like, it seems like all of these people are chosen so intentionally.

Yes.

Kevin Klein's putting on a british accent. Sasha Baron Cohen is famous for kind of silly things. He's at least famous for them. We know he can do more. Blanchett is just this renowned actress. It's like putting them all in a pot and mixing them up on purpose. To tell a story about someone telling you your story, this is probably a.

Stretch, but it's almost just like a word association game, you know, where I'm like, in some ideas or of the afterlife, you get to heaven and you get told the story of your life. Right. This is kind of the same thing, right? The judgment.

I like that.

Kind of like, it's probably not going to be comfortable for many of us to look and see our lives exactly as they were.

I don't think that's a stretch. And I think that's the fun of doing this show, this podcast, is that we do get a chance to try out an idea with one another. I love that. I think that's good. In fact, that might pepper my viewing going forward.

That was my thought. Obviously, the propulsive movement right now is what's gonna happen. But I was kind of thinking about, there were moments where her husband's like, oh, but you've done nothing wrong. And then there's moments where she kind of regains her equilibrium and she can kind of start telling her own story to herself. But to hear somebody else tell your story, possibly in the naked light of what actually happened, is more than likely, unless you're a real saint. An uncomfortable moment for you.

Yeah, I like that interpretation. And I also feel that this is going to be a really good show in that there are several ways of looking at. It tends to happen with good adaptations from books, I think.

So unless it's something. I mean, I think a good adaptation. I mean, this doesn't work one to one with all books, because not all books are like that, but a good adaptation, like, opens up either some aspect of it or some interpretation of it that really. That really unfolds from the complexity. Kind of like, probably one of the greatest adaptations. You know, the Coen brothers, no country for old Mendez, which I think you can watch a couple different ways and have a couple different thoughts about. And it's taking, you know, it's not like just doing the book. It's taking stuff from the book and highlighting those things.

Yeah. I don't want anyone to walk away from our discussion and think that we're only seeing. I'm only seeing this as a story about a story or a movie about a book. It's about mothers and sons, grief, marriage. Of course, the story stuff we've mentioned that, like, truth.

Yep.

Um, documentation. In documentation.

I was just about to say it's very on the nose that she's a documentarian. Right? Sure.

Yeah. How cats are into everything. I mean, there's.

Yep. Fox's shitty department store employees.

Yeah, exactly. You know, when I suggested this show was a possibility for our podcast, you said Kyrion's work is tailored for this podcast, or that he himself is tailored. Do you have opinions of his work going into the show?

Yeah, I like Roma and children of men very much. Same gravity, I thought, wasn't perfect, but I liked, as a movie, almost like gravity was almost an experiment in, like, can I just execute this single concept? And so I thought it. I thought it was cool, and I thought it worked. And, you know, even. Even with the, you know, he did a Harry Potter movie, and for many people, it's their favorite. And I think part of that is because, like, it's the one with that's most visually striking. You know, the rest of them are all kind of either kitty kitty sillies or sort of like a corporate. This is what we figured out the Harry Potter brand is. So this is what it's gonna look like.

His work is good. I think gravity's really good in that it ends. It has an ending.

Yeah. I could have avoided ending, too, because I really like the way gravity ended, too, because it feels like such a payoff.

Children of men is fantastic. And this show looks good.

Yeah, it looks very good. He's directing all of it. And I, like, I'm not. I really wish at some point in my life I'd taken, like, a film class. Yeah, maybe because, like, whenever you do, like, video, like, whenever someone does, like, a video about, like, breaking down directing choices, it's like, oh, okay, that's really cool. But I was trying to watch this with, like, okay. He wrote and directed it in time. Sorry, the entirety of it. So everything here is intentional.

Yep.

Right. Coming from him.

Yep.

This is neither here nor there, but Roger Ebert used to do at, like, film festivals, like, a bit where he would, like, break down, like, flicker by flicker, a scene within the audience. He describes doing it for pulp fiction and trying to figure out why everyone laughs when, with the adrenaline shot for what's her face, Uma Thurman's character. And, like, can you imagine, like, doing that with Roger Ebert? That would be insane. That would be incredible.

It was something I would sit through hell.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you especially since creating and doing this podcast, I've tried to do my due diligence and listen to professionals, breaking down certain things and learning as much as I can in the time I've been given.

Yeah. I think one of the things that. That I like about, well, one of the reasons, you know, I originally started reading Roger back when I was in college. Oh, yeah. Like, he's such a gateway to movies. Right. But part of it is, like, especially in, like, his great movie essays, he always gives you, like, something to look for or, like. Like, think about it this way. You know, like he does. He does. He's such a good introduction to, like, and here's how you watch a movie or this movie.

Yeah.

You know.

Yes.

I love that.

I love that. And that's what I love.

I love good critics who do that.

Yeah. It's what I try to do here or with my own viewing. Sometimes I don't do it if I know. I'm not talking about it for this show. I just. Just watch to watch.

We all do.

Yeah. There's a directorial choice I think we can talk about with episode three next week and. Really interested to see what you think. I've heard people, I've read people criticize it and say that it's bad directing. I would be. And how do you come to that conclusion with this director? And do you. And I. Me especially, do I just take it for granted because this director's quote unquote good, that everything he does is quote unquote good, you know?

Right, right.

I can be guilty of that.

Me too, for sure. I can absolutely be guilty of that, at least with directing at this point. I've seen enough movies. I can tell if this is, like, interesting, if this is merely competent, or if this is bad and confused. But also, I think I can. There's so much more to it than, like, moving a camera around, right?

Oh, yeah.

So there's. It's. It can be. It can be a little tricky.

Can I admit one of my biggest confusions? And I think it's starting to resolve. How much do you credit the director versus the actor?

I mean, it's kind of the classic question, right? Like. And also, like, if you. So if you really look at it, right? Like, not even. Not even with the actor. But I was. I was reading about, you know, Robert. Uh, is it Robert or Roger Deakins? Whatever. Roger Deakins a lot. Roger Deakins did ₩19, an Oscar for 19, ₩17, an Oscar for Blade Runner 2049. And he's the DP, right? And apparently, if he's working with, like, Sam Mendes, who did 1917. Sam Mendes has a theater background, so he just kind of vaguely says, like, hey, here's what I want to happen, and he'll work with the actors. But then it's like, it's Roger Deakins who, like, really sets the shot, right, and so who really makes it look like that. And then with the Cohens, they're much more like, and here's exactly what we want, and here's what we want you to do. So even that kind of like. And then that's not even looking at the actors, right. That's just the people on the other side of the camera, and then the actors are bringing something into it. And that, you know, I always picture.

Director going up to an actor and saying, be really afraid. You know, I just, like, that's as deep as I can get. Well, let's take it from England over to jolly old Gotham for a little bit, because I didn't think we were going to talk about the penguin much anymore.

But there's a. Right governor in Gotham. Maybe he's taking his pal out to lunch. He's getting wine.

I really wouldn't mind talking about episode four. You're not quite there yet. It's getting more buzz than episode three. And having watched them both, I thought episode three was even better, but stronger one. If someone wanted to come to me and debate that episode four was stronger, I would. I would be okay with that, because I would. I think there's an argument to be made there. I don't want to sound like I'm making a critical reference to Alabama's coach Deborah here, but shouldn't Vic be wearing button downs, at least at this point? Shouldn't he be wearing collared shirts or maybe a jacket without a tie?

Right. Yeah. Like, to suit his new role.

It's so funny because Oz says to him, I got you some new clothes. And I kept thinking, okay, when's he gonna change into him?

Right, right.

Oh, you just meant new versions of the old clothes. He kind of like teenage clothes. Okay, fine. Whatever.

He's. You know what? Maybe he blends in better that way. Right? Cause they do use him. They use him in the club later. Right. He's not wearing a suit.

Vic came around to me as a fully developed character in episode three, and with the plot, just had a little tragedy.

Right.

That's all it took. I suppose that's all it takes. But the plot paired him. Excuse me. The plot pairs Oz and Vic with Sophia. It kind of took the show out from under the shadow of the sopranos a little. To me, it becomes a little bit more of its own series with. Because they're going to use what the Riddler had done with all the bombs, and, you know, kind of what Andor did show us the effects of someone who's not Batman and the Riddler and the penguin.

Right. The aftermath.

Yeah.

I mean, they're, like, one of my favorite. It's the incredible team of Ed Brubaker and Greg Rucker. One of the best Batman comics out there is actually GCPD, because they. Gotham City Police Department, because they just play it as a straight police procedural comic, except it happens to be taking place in a world where Batman exists and the Joker exists, et cetera, et cetera. And that can be really fun. Like, if done poorly, I think it comes across as really self serious, done well. It's a cool exploration.

Right.

I'm liking, too, more than I thought I would. And I think this is maybe. Maybe there's a little Tony and Cobb. Yeah. Michael. God damn it. What's Michael Imperioli's character? I just completely lost it. Thank you, Tony and Christopher. But I'm liking Vic as a foil for Oz. I'm really actually more than I thought I would. He wants Vic to be impressed with him. He wants to brag to him, and then at the end, like, Vic hurts him. He hurts him, like, emotionally. You can see that this wounds Oz, who is used to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. But Vic hurt his feelings.

Man, I'm glad you brought that up because I was debating if it came out from under the shadow of the Sopranos with this episode or not, because I was thinking, well, Vic could be seen as kind of the Christopher character, and his parents dying in the flood could just be Christopher not having a mom.

Right, right.

Is it the same beats? And I don't think.

I mean, everything is. Reminds you of everything else that ever happened. Right. But, yeah, for me, it's doing something distinct, almost like. Almost if the sopranos were like, hey, let's have Tony and AJ be a really, you know.

Yeah. I fell for Oz so much in this episode that it's going to be impossible for me to root for batmandhead when I'll just be in shambles when penguins defeated in whatever manner that happens.

Colin Farrell does a really good job of, let's not, like, mince, right? Like, he's a dirtbag.

Oh, yeah.

But you kind of feel for him, right? Where he. Like when he. Like when Sofia confronts him about something really shitty he did to her. Right. We're not 100% sure what it is, but we know he was related to her incarceration someday. He ratted her out because he was her driver. Yes, but he's like. He tries to explain, like, what that meant for him, and you're like, ah, you got me. You got me, Colin.

Well, it's the look in his eyes, not to be cliche.

Yeah. Yeah.

Colin Farrell just has this sympathetic look at his eyes where you just, like, you're gross. You've done horrible things, but I love you.

You can kind of see things from his point of view, right. And, like, sympathize with him, right? Like. Cause he's. He sort of kicks off a lot of the drama by losing his temper and killing Sophia's brother in the first episode. Who among us hasn't lost our temper, right? Who among us hasn't felt, looked over at some point?

True.

Et cetera, et cetera. You know? So you kind of sympathize with him, right? You're like, well, I wouldn't want him to move into my neighborhood.

Exactly. Well, you hinted last week how Vic and Oz are men who are just alone. And there's something sympathetic there. These are just lonely guys.

He doesn't have a. Anyone to rely on. You know, we don't know what his relationship with his mother is, but we can. We can guess because he has to. He's at the point where he has to take care of his mother. He can't trust anyone. He's, like, kind of stupidly trusting Vic. But you do get the sense that finally to have someone, and then Vic, of course, has been. He's been orphaned and is sort of making choices to be alone, too, as everything with his girl, the girlfriend, goes forward and kind of. I did think it was kind of interesting, like, choosing the company of a lonely man too, over, like we could get, you know, like, we can get out of town with my girlfriend and get out of here versus, like, it's a lonely, mean guy who's not going to be super nice to you, but.

It'S also a surrogate dad.

Exactly.

Isn't that what we all wanted?

I don't think they're overwhelming it, but I do think that it's like, it's about those emotional needs and those are the show. I mean, at this point, and especially Oz's portrayal of.

And those are the points that make it a little different from the Sopranos. You know, Vic doesn't have parents anymore, and Tony was not necessarily alone. He didn't. I don't think that his big deal was that he felt lonely.

No, Tony, honestly, between the two of them, Oz might be a little bit more redeemable than Tony, at least what we've seen so far.

I wrote down that I bet the critics got the first three episodes, but the first four makes some sense, too. Okay. Yeah, I just love some that I'd.

Seen had reviewed the whole. It's only eight episodes, so I think I'd seen a couple that were like, oh, I reviewed the whole series for this.

Oh, okay, well, then that makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah. I love this episode for all kinds of reasons already mentioned, but putting the crime into the reality of what else can we do but do crime well, you know, why don't we deserve to eat at nice restaurants? I can really get on board with that as it's been documented in this podcast.

Right. But I mean, there's a great element of that.

Right.

You don't want to go too crazy with it, but I think it's a really smart, like, economics overlay that you can put to it and say, you know, you can even call it like a marxist theory. Right? Everything's class struggle. You can kind of see that in here, right?

Yes.

And I don't mind what it produces.

Yeah, let's deepen comic book stuff. That's. I'm all for it.

One of the things that I think can be done really well and when it's done at its best is not only does it deepen comic book stuff, but using those comics, those kind of simpler things to explain things to us about the real world, to let us see it in a new way. That's true. If you can do that, then you've really hit something.

And isn't the purpose of comic books to take something complex and adult and simplifying it way down? And now it's the job of these tv or movie creators who want to do it this way, is to build back up that complex.

Maybe I don't want to get on a whole thing about comics, but I remember reading with Alan Moore and something that. Sorry, an interview with Alan Moore, one of the things he said was basically, like, the best way that something's going to stick with you is, like, the combination of word and images that a comic is. And I thought, and I think, like, you can, you can have everything from, like, watchmen, which is pretty complex and pretty broken down, to Batman punching, you know, the riddler. And then maybe this tv show has a little more time to breathe and helps you. You know, it's real. You're seeing real people on the screen, right. So you're making those connections as opposed to people in tights or whatever. I don't know.

It might help to remember that. I think Vic's timeline is that his parents only died less than a week ago.

Yeah.

Is that right?

He is newly grief stricken and clearly has not dealt with his parents death in any meaningful way except by latching on to odds, if you can call it that. Oz kind of latched onto him, too.

Yes. So it makes a little bit of sense.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Do you find it odd that nobody said, what the hell's the deal with this Batman guy running around?

Yeah. I do love that. It's like, it's like, I don't know. He's a, he's a bat, but he's also a man. You know, they're not overly concerned about it. It seems to me that, like, if you had been, as we know, Oz was like, if your club had been, like, raided and beaten up by a lunatic dressed as a bat, within, like, a couple weeks, you might be, like, a little concerned about that happening again.

I guess they have a lot more going on.

He's like the bat, you know, the Batman's busy with disaster relief.

Yeah. We've reached the end of this week's episode. If you enjoy what we do, we accept tips here, even memberships. We're going to work that out. I'm in the process of working out. Might be worked out soon. A couple months. We'll figure out some tiers and things, if that interests you. Yeah, it's very much appreciated. Any sort of tip or donation, that's it for Adam and Donovan. Any last thoughts, Donovan?

For the membership, we either need to call the lowest or the highest tier the daily bar tiere.

Brilliant. Why haven't I thought of that? Writing it down. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Next week, probably more on disclaimer, maybe the fourth episode and fifth episode of the Penguin. We will see. Adios, everyone.