Cost of Class: 'Dope Thief,' 'The White Lotus' and 'Severance'

Hey, what's up?

It's taking it down.

We're a working class TV and streaming podcast, one that splits every episode into two.

The first section exists for anyone who wants to listen for recommendations or general thoughts, since we won't spoil our topics there.

And the back half details what works for us in the series or movie and what does not.

Beware of that spoiler section if you haven't watched or if you're adverse to spoilers.

I'm Blaine and the co host, Adam and Donovan join me each week.

Adam's a touring and studio musician and Donovan's a college information and media specialist.

Before they come aboard our yacht this week, I have one ask of you.

Go to our home site, the Alabama Take, find this podcast episode and tell us what works for you, what doesn't, what thoughts you have, what theories you want to say or for us to explore.

Or just say hello if that's what you'd like to do.

On our home site, you'll note that there are writings, thoughts, more podcasts.

Hope you enjoy what you find, but let's bring in our two great co hosts.

A Alabama tape projection.

The air just goes out of the room when I hit record.

Well, I'm being quiet so my silliness doesn't get.

No, it's fun.

It's Donovan.

There he is.

It's Adam.

Hi, Adam.

Are we supposed to keep talking about Arrested Development?

I mean, you could.

How would that be any different than any other episode we've recorded?

The percentage would go up.

No spoilers in this section, Buds.

Apple TV released the first two episodes of Dope Thief on Friday.

I got a chance to watch both of them that were released in between checking the weather yesterday.

Yeah, it's a long, long weekend in the South.

I'm really glad I live where it's 50 degrees.

Although it is a little windy today.

We hope everyone's okay, by the way.

Yeah, for sure.

Some of the info is there in those first two or those two words of the title Dope Thief.

You get it right there.

You could do like a close reading just of those two words.

Let's do it.

No, we want to anyway.

It's based off a Dennis Tafoya novel with the same name.

So it's Brian Tyree, Henry Wagner Mora.

You might recognize that name, you might not, but I guarantee you you'll recognize the actor.

Or you might not, because he killed it as Pablo Escobar in Narco's first two seasons.

That's some of my favorite TV of the last.

However, Long it's been.

You and I both love those first two seasons.

Could not look away from that guy.

He was so good.

It had Luis Guzman as a Mexican drug kingpin and it gave us Pedro Pascal's mustache.

That's right.

He was one of the agents.

He's one of the agents and he grew the mustache for narcos.

If that actor is anything in Dope Thief like he is as Pablo, I mean his, his ability to.

On paper, here's a guy that I, you know, not a good human yet.

He's.

Yeah.

Every step of the way you're like, this guy's such a badass.

But here's the thing.

You might not recognize him in Dope Thief.

I swear I watched the trailer to this and I thought, well, huh, I wonder who that other actor is.

Odd that he's getting a prominent role beside Brian Tyree Henry.

But okay, I trust them with the trailer so far.

I'm in.

No, no, no, no.

It is the guy who played Pablo Escobar who has lost £70, £80 and is just thin and he's not like malnourished or anything, but he's, you know, certainly changed how he looks, you know, very, very handsome guy in this role.

This happened to me last year when they started running ads for Matlock.

I was like, who the hell is that Matlock?

And I didn't recognize Kathy Bates, like 80 pounds lighter.

Oh, I thought you were like, why isn't Andy Griffith.

Why is he a woman?

Did he transition Dope Thief?

The series was co produced by famous director Ridley Scott, who directed the first episode.

It's really funny how innate I suppose your senses are in recognizing something's different about this episode.

Because the first episode was just propulsive, amazing.

Could not stop watching it.

Second episode was fine.

It was great.

But you could just tell, huh.

Wonder what this, what to do.

Well, you know, you look it up.

It's two different directors.

Ridley Scott directed the first one.

I haven't gotten that so bad since watching Mindhunter where like the first episode is David Fincher directing it.

And then it goes and it's like, oh my God, something's changed.

Like, it's not that I don't like it.

Yeah, it's just different.

The primary writer, showrunner is Peter Craig.

He worked on Riding the Batman, the Town and some of Gladiator too.

Are y'all.

Do y'all just marvel at how much stuff Ridley Scott gets done for an 87 year old man?

It's incredible.

Like he just seems like really old I'm sorry, y'all.

When he came, like, obviously, like, he was young when he did, like, Alien and Blade Runner, but, like, he's just been, like, working steady, like, his whole career.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, they're not all great, but a lot of them are like, damn, man.

That's.

That's how.

That's the trick to living long.

You just keep doing stuff.

You keep working.

Yeah.

So the two leads to dope thief Brian Tyree Henry and Wagner Mura pose as the agents in Philadelphia to rob dope houses of their money.

Yeah, I've seen the Wire.

Tell me this mix doesn't work.

These two actors, Apple TV plus, who's on a pretty good run and that story, and Ridley Scott direct the first episode.

And Peter Craig seems competent enough.

I will tell you guys, we're non spoilers, but I will tell you that the first 10 minutes of the first episode is as good of a call to open as I've seen in a couple of years.

Gives you what you need to know.

Everything you need to know is right there.

It looks like the story's in good hands.

Shows you all of these very small things, but still explosively paced, engaging.

What's going to happen next feel.

Yeah, I recommend it wholeheartedly based on the first episode.

The second episode has to slow down.

I don't think it's any fault of the director.

You just got to slow it down some because you have, you know, you have to catch up with these people.

Who are they?

What are they doing?

One of the keys to this one being so close to being great is that they have put once again, some hilarious pop culture references in Brian Tyree Henry's dialogue.

So all of his insults are these pop culture references that are just whiplash.

Funny.

I think it's a good read on people.

Right there on the cusp of poverty and the low middle class.

And what are you gonna do about that?

There's a couple of very idiosyncratic things to the story you wouldn't have guessed going in.

So I told you that.

And Donovan says, yeah, I've seen the Wire, but there's some things in there you wouldn't have guessed.

Okay, No, I was being silly.

I like it.

I know Donovan and I really liked it.

Brian Tyree Henry in Atlanta.

And he was very, very good.

He got nothing to do in the eternals.

No, he's a good actor.

If complete sidebar.

But if you.

If you are at all like him, Fresh Air years ago did a really good interview with him.

He's like brilliant, right?

Yeah, he's, he's so good at his job.

It's like you, you, you are good in everything you're in.

And it's so fun to see the guy who played Pablo Escobar back in something that's very much co lead.

Yeah, he's fun to see.

And you know, he looks great with, with the weight gone, he looks nothing like Pablo.

I think they might have something going here.

We'll see.

Okay.

One thing we'll break down in our detailed spoiler section later is the White Lotus on hbo.

It's fourth episode of the season titled Hide and Seek.

You know, we're reaching that point in a show season where we'll often say, hey, we recommend it and it's for this kind of viewer.

You're gonna like it or not.

This season's given us more inscrutable version of the previous two with that.

I still think it's pretty quality.

It's got its moments.

I think it's an excellent Sunday night piece of tv.

If you, if you don't mind a slower version of the first two, I think season three is for you.

Coming around to it, huh?

Yeah, I think it's starting.

It's, it's a slow, it's a little too slow of a slow burn, but yeah, it's slow burn.

This is me not having seen it, but like, did you ever watch like, like other, the other hbo, it was on the tip of my tongue and I just lost it.

But the other HBO show, Mike White did, it lightened.

Was that it?

That was it.

No, I didn't know.

Kudlo.

It's got kind of a slow burn start, but if you stick with it, it's really got like, I do think that.

And again, this would be knowing nothing but like, I do think that he's, he's a really smart writer.

Oh, yeah.

A really smart guy.

He probably.

Yeah, he's probably super smart.

Yeah.

And he wrote School of Rock.

Hey, we always credit him for that.

For new listeners, we record on Sunday, so don't be confused by us being a week behind.

So we are going to be talking about the fourth episode.

Some of y'all may have seen the fifth one so far.

You know, a fourth episode, Hide and Seek, I think it continued to do what it does well in the first couple episodes and it continues to do what it hasn't done well, what it hasn't been able to conquer this year.

My gauge is that the good things are getting more screen time and the slower hindrances are Getting less screen time and I think it's starting to.

To balance and be pretty good.

I usually don't like when people say about a show, just make it until X episode can't stand and then it'll set the hook.

Yeah.

After the fourth episode, I can say that this does seem like it's going to be worth the things that we were impatient about, especially in episode one and two.

Do you think we were impatient?

You know, this is an attention question.

We can't know until every episode's out.

I don't want to say it like it set the hook in episode four because then I'm creating.

That's almost like saying, what's your favorite movie with a crazy twist?

It's like, well, now I have to.

That changes the way that you view the piece of film.

I do think this is now, like, okay, we're back on form for the show and doing something new, possibly.

Like there was a certain level of menace and darkness that other seasons people have kind of bumbled their way into and this seems like it's going to a boil in a different way.

Yeah, I agree with them about all.

We could say, maybe without detailing the episode.

A note to listeners.

We will indeed get into a deep conversation about key elements of severance in its most recent episode, but not much to say.

We love it.

Most people will find it appealing and good.

Psychological, semi sci fi thriller workplace comedy.

If you can watch it and catch up and hear us out on what we thought.

We're going to take a break here and as we ready for the back half, here's a podcast from some of our friends you might like.

Do you love music?

Do you want to explore classic albums?

If you answered yes, then check out Polyphonic Press.

I'm Jeremy and along with my co host John, we rely on the patented Random Album Generator to pick an album for us to review at the top of each show.

We have no idea what album we're going to be listening to.

That's what keeps it really exciting.

We dig real deep into these albums.

So if this sounds interesting, come along with us on this journey because you never know what you might find.

We release a new episode every Tuesday morning.

That's Polyphonic Press, and we're available on every podcast platform.

We're deep into spoilers now, so you've been warned.

Okay.

Use timestamps to see what we'll talk about and where, and you can avoid spoilers.

So we're venturing back to thailand.

White Lotus 4th episode, Hide and Seek, Donovan's Back with us this week.

You've noticed.

Donovan, is it okay if I reveal to listeners that you were out last week because you found your wife's generic Ativan?

That's fine.

I'm not saying you have a problem.

I'm just saying you enjoyed it.

No, no, no, I don't have a problem.

I'm starting a problem.

Yeah.

Like Tim.

Exactly.

You know, this is a show, it's obviously about class, but this season's also about what those class divisions do to us when we brush up against people, interact or even connect with them.

You know, it pokes at the question, how many resentments are going to break you?

How many resentments you got inside?

That's just going to make you crumble.

That's actually like a good and serious question to be asked.

I think.

I really do think it's a great.

Question, like, of America right now.

Like all of us, in many different ways.

Yes.

One clear element of the season that both elevates it as TV and lowers it simultaneously is Walton Goggins and his character, Rick.

Let me explain.

It's not a knock on any of the other actors.

It's just he's that good, you know, you almost want him in more scenes if possible.

Anyone not paying attention to his work might be surprised at how he's become a kind of a front and center lead actor.

But he's paid his dues and he's good.

That's true.

He kind of went from like, hey, I'm a character actor to like, you can really put me in just about any situation.

Yep.

And I'll be distinctive, but yeah, I'll fit it.

But I'll fit it.

You know, the rest of the cast is catching up, I think.

I think episode four, you know, he was.

He was great.

And he was also given the most interesting storylines.

Yeah.

I think probably for the reasons that you guys just stated, but I think that some of the other familiar faces that maybe even annoyed me at first are now starting to come alive and really assist in stealing the show.

Yeah, Rick's obvious, obviously rich, but he didn't fit in with them.

And that makes him one of the more interesting characters.

He's a lot like if one of us won the lottery and we're kind of had a mean streak, you know, what's he doing there?

He doesn't.

He's not.

He did not come from money.

Well, he does.

He doesn't.

But he's also still very worldly.

Like, he seems like a well traveled guy, so it's not totally like man on the street, given money ends up at this resort.

Like, he's clearly moved in and out of different social circles most of his adult life, I would argue.

And that's an interesting story.

And it's all being done, I think, through what, what the writing has done in these last couple episodes, but also how Goggins is playing it.

You get a sense that he's not like the rest of these people.

So I have not seen the latest episode, but kind of.

I was, I was thinking about this with, with his character.

This is probably like way too much of a stretch, but like, I, I get reminders of how, like how Henry James would talk about, you know, one of his great themes is American expatriates in Europe and like the different kinds of Americanness that you, you know, coming up against that.

And I thought, you know, I, I feel like this is doing something kind of similar.

Like it's American expats, often from the upper echelons of society.

And it's really interested in, just like you said, almost like the class difference.

Right.

The savviness or lack thereof of various folks.

The, the.

The way that, you know, taken in or not taken in.

I think that's like kind of a stretch, but I took one Henry James class in college and by God, I'm.

Going to use it.

It's not a stretch, except with Americans versus Europeans.

It's.

Yes, it's a different.

If it's.

It's a different setting, but I feel like there are some of the same thoughts and preoccupations.

Maybe little new money versus old money.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

But it's also.

I wouldn't say that it's a new money, old money thing as much as.

Because Goggins character is.

Does not exemplify new money in the way that that would usually be described.

I don't think he almost reminds me a bit of a Connie Hilton in Mad Men.

You know, like, here's a guy who's like, almost outside of the moneyed perspective.

Obviously Rick has a bit more, you know, he has actually insightful conversations with.

Could we call her the therapist, the meditation guide or whatever.

Yeah.

But that was one of the best interactions of the season.

But if anything, I would say that Greg is the.

Or Gary is the new money kind of representative.

Get it any way you can.

Seems to have arrived and now is just completely vacant and dead inside.

He'll always be Greg to me.

There you go.

And then you got.

I think the.

Especially episode four, you have these three dudes who do represent kind of what, Donovan, what you were talking about, These different archetypes of Americans with the ability to be on an extravagant vacation.

Yes.

In Thailand, I also could see Rick as the Gatsby character who's just come into money and he's wearing the two flashy Hawaiian shirts, whereas Gatsby wore the two.

You know, the pink suit.

And he was criticized for that.

And, you know, he's got his green light, which is a little different than Gatsby's.

I gotta.

I'm gonna take care of this guy who killed my dad.

I just don't think he gives a shit.

He gives a shit about that green light.

He does.

But, like, is he being dressed by his girlfriend at times?

Like, did they just like, oh, we're going to Thailand, so let's go buy some lightweight clothes?

Yeah, just throw that in the bag.

Or he dresses like he doesn't give a shit.

And he just bought these five shirts that are outlandish, but he didn't even look at them.

Yeah, yeah.

And he got him at the airport gift shop is how it does.

Kind of.

Yeah, right.

Like.

Like you're going through.

And it's like, whatever, I'll get those.

Which is what you would do if.

If you were a guy who had, like, maybe participated in crimes and not crimes.

How you say, yeah, not been able to pack and check a suitcase for his world traveling.

What would you do when you got there if you were cash rich and resource poor?

Otherwise, just go to the gift shop.

Oh, yeah.

The way Goggins does the slight stuff with his eyes, subtle expressions, these ambiguity of his movements and reactions.

It's just fun to watch.

One example is what you're talking about.

Adam.

You said it's probably one of the best scenes of the season where he's talking to the lady who's been working with him to lower his stress.

She tells him he's not the pain.

You are not the pain.

Something like that.

And he has a look that can be inferred as if he's never heard anything like that about himself, or he appreciates this care from a stranger that he's never experienced.

Her read on him is kind of moving because she could have dismissed him as like, well, this.

This gruff guy who maybe just brought his young girlfriend here on vacation to impress her.

You know, what do I care about what he has?

I'm just doing my job.

But when he actually kind of opens up and we talked about this already a few episodes ago, says some pretty insightful things that give you a Window into.

There's more complexity here.

Yeah.

You know, he has thought about his emotions.

He's thought about spirituality in some sense.

Well, there's.

There's that component of she is paying that back in a way by, like, seeing him.

And he has two moments of being seen, for lack of better phrase, in this episode.

I think it worked here.

He also opens up to Chelsea in a new way, and I thought both of those, you know, and you have Jason.

Isaac's character is completely shutting down any connection to his family.

Yeah, he opens up when you.

The nice North Carolina family is more of, like, the.

The storybook picture of, like, aspirational wealth in America.

Yeah.

You know, I really love characters, and sometimes people who are, like, deeply invested in tune, listening, eye contact on the deep shit and smoking a cigarette totally don't give a shit about anything you're saying if it's the unimportant shit.

And that's some of what he's doing.

Interesting that none of the.

The older men that we're talking about really gave a.

About anything on the yacht.

And I say older just to differentiate them from the generation of Guy of Saxon and his little brother.

And the ladies they're with, deeply impressed by this materialistic display.

And the people who actually have the means to own it are completely checked out.

Yeah, that's true.

Good point.

Here's where I'll be.

I'll gladly be proven wrong because we don't get screeners.

Hbo.

Yeah.

Once again, Lotus opens with this quick bit that's supposed to create some tension, but I think it only gives me confusion.

And I can't remember previous seasons doing it to this point.

Last week, it was the point of view camera.

It came up from the water to open the show to give a sense of menace.

This week, it's Belinda hearing something in her room that went nowhere.

And I know that part of this show is that it doesn't go anywhere this episode, but next episode it could.

It's just odd choices for red herrings.

But again, time can tell me a different tale.

Well, they closed episode three with that.

Right.

Like.

And it almost seemed frightening to the point that maybe she should run after the hotel employee she's been hanging out with, whose name is escaping me right now, kind of guiding her through kind of crushing.

Go call him back because there's someone hiding in your room.

You know, now they do it again.

Oh, really?

This episode?

That was my read on it.

No, I forgot that.

All right, Adam, quick question.

Why the hell is Sacks so into these goddamn Shakes and forcing them on his brother.

I mean, you're not going to cultivate mass.

Not getting a bunch of protein.

Hey, here's my thing.

First of all, I hope somebody beats the out of him.

But second, last week he just had this perfect fitting quote for him where he says, of course they're decent people because they're rich.

Don't you?

I just want to kick him there.

But.

But look, man, they make those protein shakes tasty these days.

I don't understand what's going on.

They're pretty good these days.

You're not, you're not putting enough in it.

Well, he's rich enough to avoid doling them out as blender.

You know, he's rich enough to get the pre made, the big tall pre made ones.

Well, but you can't control that.

You got to control your bcaas and your, your creatines and all that going in there.

Are you saying he's putting steroids in these?

Is that possible?

You have to do a shot, right?

I don't know.

He doesn't really look like a guy who's on steroids.

No, he doesn't, but he looks like a guy who would try them.

Yeah.

Hide and seek had the three gal pals, that's Lori, Kate and Jacqueline, venturing into town, getting besieged by water guns, meeting up with Valentine's Russian pals.

Before we get to the Russian pals, that water gun scene specifically is such a filler scene.

You think so?

Yeah.

I know it's a real tradition in Thailand for them to do such, but that should have made the editing room floor.

What do we get out of that?

They run into the store and look at each other and they feel threatened by kids with water guns.

No, I think that this is them being shown to be completely ignorant of the space that they're trying to inhabit.

Like, it's fine to not read up on anything local.

I mean, you're still an asshole.

But if you're just going to a resort and you know that you're going to be walled off and you're going to have this very curated experience, that's one thing.

But then to be like, we want something authentic and to go into town and she specifically touches the head of one of the kids, which is like a big no, no, that obviously you don't touch a stranger, period.

But the head is reading up on this.

In Thailand, you don't, you don't touch other people's head.

And so they immediately disrespect.

Not only are they, if you're a tourist and you're like, I'm looking for a good time.

And you get out and an entire city is having a water gun fight.

Yeah.

And you can't have fun with that.

Yeah.

Leave, leave.

Or like, also, what do you.

What do you really.

It's revealing about what you're actually after, so the fact.

Yeah.

I just think there's probably a more interesting way to present that.

I agree that that's what it conveyed.

But it also immediately makes you question their Russian tour guide.

You go from a scene where she calls him their butler, which he is definitely not, and steals him away.

And she gives this look to the.

The people working the front desk like, he's coming with us, you know, and then for him to immediately abandon them in the middle of this mayhem that he knows is not going to meet their vibe at all.

I like the scene.

Okay, well, careful.

Readers of credits have linked one of the Russian buds as being one of the people who broke into the jewelry store.

I mean, that's.

That's right there to me.

Yeah.

It's no wonder they put it in the credits because you should probably make that conclusion.

But it's no wonder that they wanted that snake bracelet so badly.

It matches the tattoo.

If you want one, you want the other.

It just keeps on going.

Now that Greg knows Belinda's onto him, it.

He's.

He's figuring some things out.

He.

He sure was eyeing her son's eye on.

When he was looking up info on Belinda.

That was both of them looking the other one up.

Yes.

That was so good, wasn't it was really good.

And like, when, you know what kind of guy Greg is unsettling, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll shout out the actor here.

I think his name is John Grass.

Uncle Rico.

He's actually pretty good and he does good work here as being a person with a lot on his mind when he should be having fun on his boat.

I love that he played that so well.

Like, that's exactly what those people look like.

And I've been one of those people where you're just like, I'm at a party.

But, you know, I've got this going on in my personal life.

There's an episode of Louie about that.

It also makes you wonder, like, even if he wasn't freshly worried that he may be discovered for murdering a enormously wealthy woman, like, what's he getting out of Thailand?

You know, hiding.

But he looks miserable.

Oh, yeah.

All the time.

I think he looks like that no matter what.

And, you know, There's a reason we're shown his massive palatial home, that he's just looks again, miserable walking.

You know what could get him out of this funk?

Drugs.

Tim.

Tim.

He and Tim connecting.

They.

You know, he should have offered the guy.

Not a fan.

He got the whole script now.

Again, drugs.

Yeah.

He should have been like, dude, I got some of these.

You want one?

Their interaction was good.

Jason.

Isaac's playing someone who has.

You know, we're all Alabama fans.

We.

We spend our time in Tuscaloosa, so we all.

Some.

The stove gets touched with the day drinking.

You know what I mean?

We have seen this play out, but.

When you're on vacation, you get the opportunity to go straight to your room and sleep it off.

That's true.

They're not trucking you out of Bryant.

Tenney and still make it to dinner.

I was impressed.

Yeah.

So Sax, Lachlan, Chelsea, Chloe.

That's Greg's girlfriend.

A lot of young ladies, a lot of old dudes.

They all stay on the boat for Thailand's new year celebration.

Not on the boat.

Not on the boat.

Rick, Greg, Tim, Victoria.

And this can only mean that Lalin's got more card tricks.

I don't like Saxon, but I think there were.

We talked last week about him displaying a naivete and innocence about reacting to his dad, taking the phones, wanting to help, maybe realizing that he's not as grown up as he thinks he is.

I think the.

The maybe gap in his facade this week is like, he's very proud of his brother.

He would think this guy.

Everything else we know about him, he would be mocking his brother for learning how to do card tricks.

That's true.

And he's so proud of him.

Yeah.

This archetype would bully his brother, but here he loves him.

Gassing him up.

Yeah.

I'm not here to start the fan club.

I'm just.

It was an interesting.

It doesn't all compute.

And I think they're trying to show he's.

Yeah, it's a little bit of subversion for that type of character.

It's good.

Yeah.

Almost childish in some ways.

Oh, yeah.

He really is.

Good point.

And you brought that up some last week, but that.

That definitely fits.

Something I brought up last week was how the workers haven't caught my attention like in seasons past, but.

And that's still the case with hide and seek, but.

Well, they got a gun now.

Well, I was gonna say gaytalk plays a huge role going forward.

He foolishly leaves the gun on display.

I mean, we could all see this coming, but still.

And I know.

I know deep down that Tim did not snatch that pistola.

That's a good red herring, I think.

I think it's.

Well, that he's never shown getting it.

He just shown looking at it and then that's it.

He doesn't show him putting it in his.

In his belt.

I watched.

I made that up.

No, I see him.

Interesting.

I mean, there's all sorts of conclusions people are jumping to about how this plays out.

Yeah.

Now, Right.

Like.

And a lot of people are trying to zoom back and say, guys, this is still like a comedy most of the time.

I don't.

Kind of like when the.

The incest stuff was heavily flirted with.

Is that.

Is that really something that this show is interested in?

Yeah.

Going in with, like, it's funny to, like, flirt with the line, but to have like an outright.

Not only like incest, but, like, you know, molestation and all this kind of stuff.

I don't know if they're going there.

Here's the thing, and I'll give you a counterpoint.

Gay talk is the nice guy.

There is a little more darkness hovering over this season.

Is he the incel sword who might shoot this place up?

You know, Mook doesn't give him much.

Much of much attention.

She doesn't give a shit for him, really.

If you.

And if you only like someone on conditions like getting a promotion, like she seems to be, you don't really like them.

And it seems like she would have jumped on the offer for a date if she did truly like him.

And our listener, Mr.

Jeddah here, you know, she.

She's playing him for the robbers, it seems.

Yeah, I could see that.

And.

But also his.

You were immediately showing him.

And we don't know their backstory really, like what the.

The timbre of that is, but his courtship of her or attempt is very like, please go out with me.

Please marry me, please.

You know, it's.

It's weird.

It's.

It's lacking.

He's coming from a place of lacking.

Right.

I've seen a couple of people say this, and I thought of it too.

Credit to all of us, I guess.

That gun that Tim may or may not have grabbed, it's.

It's not.

And this is morbid.

Apologies.

That's not the sort of gun that makes the sounds that you hear in that opening scene of the first episode.

Those are more pops, like an automatic.

And this is just a pistol.

Some people think that maybe Belinda is going to be able to tip off Greg or tip off the proper authorities to Greg.

They show up.

Let's say Tim does have the gun.

He thinks that he is possibly being pursued by.

I don't know who would be coming to get him for all of his fraud, you know, and he can't take the shame.

And the shooting begins by mistake.

But I'm not sure that the White Lotus is a show that has like a suicide.

Murder, murder, murder.

If he's like gonna kill his family or something and the place is getting shot up as they're trying to get it doesn't strike me as that program.

There's tension in this season.

I don't think he's been present before.

And then the three women also steal some of the guns from those amongst the dead and they only start shooting at each other.

Wow.

Hey, I'm not crazy about our podcast listing prediction at all.

Yeah, listing predictions.

But I do have one.

This is the show that really asks you to.

Mine is this, I think Tim O.

D's and maybe by choice.

And that's his body we see floating in the water in episode one.

Because that, that body doesn't have any blood.

No blood on that body.

It's shocking the how.

I mean you already said this.

You know, if one is good, let's.

Let's keep on taking them.

I mean he is just down the rabbit hole with.

Yeah, Maybe he isn't ODing by choice, I don't know.

But he's only been completely unfamiliar with him.

That's true.

Happens.

I think this is.

I know you have other things you want to say about the show, but we gotta shout out Parker Posey who we maybe didn't love in the first.

Well, she annoyed us and I think she's grown on us.

I think that she was spectacular in episode four.

Yes.

I think her nonverbal and verbal acting in this as she like encounters.

Cause she's the one that questions to Saxon just because they have money, they're not good people.

You know.

And I think you can read that as they are not good people in the oh, they're not well bred kind of people or like they're just morally not good people.

And I think maybe she meant both.

I don't know.

Yeah, but you see more of her humanity this time and maybe as she comes off the.

The drugs which apparently.

What if she is as dependent upon them as she seems to be.

This is going to be a rough.

It could be few days for her.

Yeah.

Last note that I have Jeremy Isaacs.

You know, that's Tim man They should have reshot that scene.

He goes completely out of the accent when he's on the phone at the end of Hide and Seek episode.

It's pretty blatant.

I was shot out of the scene immediately.

They slip around a little bit.

I didn't catch that one.

It's pretty bad, but.

It's pretty bad.

Well, let's talk about a group of people who.

Some of them have some really weird accents or at least vocabulary.

Severance, episode nine, the After Hours.

That's the penultimate episode of the season in the books, so I can't decide if I want to start wide and broad and shift into the narrow and specific or vice versa.

I feel like if anyone stuck with us this far for severance, you could probably go specific if you feel like it.

Yeah.

I'll back up an episode and say that I saw even more naysayers about episode eight, the Harmony Cobell episode, and they just said that she.

She didn't need a whole episode for that.

It could have been half or a back and forth.

I disagree.

I disagree, too.

I really liked it a lot.

It was kind of.

Maybe bold's not the right word, but kind of a bold choice for a prestige.

No to be like, we're getting this done in 37 minutes, I thought.

And I liked it.

Yeah, I do, too.

I did, too.

And also, I.

Sorry.

But, like, if you think Patricia Arquette can't, like, captivate you for a full episode, you need to go back and forth, like, what's wrong with you?

You know?

Have you not seen True Romance?

Yeah.

I'm not sure any of that episode would have carried the same resonance and impact if we had broken with, like, almost a timeline narrative of her trip.

Right.

Agree.

Like, if you'd, like, gone back to the severed floor or found out what Mark was up to, you have to be.

Because you felt the isolation of that town, you know, and the depression and the bleakness.

Yeah.

All right, so let's get back to episode nine of Severance, the After Hours.

It's kind of an episode about emotional knowledge.

This episode also reconfirms to me that the Enies are in hell.

Especially with.

With.

With.

Especially with Dylan G.

Everyone's having a bad day.

Lots of possible hidden things in what the characters say, but.

But none more than.

Than the James Egan creep.

He says, I wish you'd take them raw, don't you?

What?

I don't know what that means.

First of all, is that, like, some sort of protein reference?

The eggs?

Yeah, I know what he.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're that hungover, you should take it raw.

And then James Egan.

Helena asked him if he wants something to eat, and he says, I'll just watch.

Or how.

Whatever.

He says, what?

What the.

That's just creepy.

There's a 30 Rock joke about this where Jack's had a heart attack and he can't eat anything, so he just wants to watch Liz Lemony.

And that's all I can think of.

That's creepy.

That's probably what they're referencing.

I'm glad you picked up one.

That shot of the Egan home as they leave for the day.

And the water tower there.

Boy.

So that was the part where I was like, get RFK Jr.

On this.

He needs to be investigating Lumen.

Where are they putting in the water?

What are they putting in the water?

I mean, it's a good question, right?

Boy, that gave you the message of containment.

If not almost like a snow globe.

Feel there.

You know, I'm sure theories can abound.

Or just off that shot.

It's restrainment.

They do something with the camera there.

You think that the compound looked kind of like an egg?

Because I was thinking that an egg is.

An egg is bounded on all sides right by the shell.

Well, let's talk about the egg that she eats.

It's a.

The boiled egg.

She puts it in six pieces, and then there's a little ugly baby kid in the middle of the plate there that it frames.

That looked like a.

You ever see the, like.

The like terrifying.

Like a German.

That's like, oh, it's terrifying Tales for infants.

So it will shape up.

That's kind of what it reminded me of.

Yeah, the kids learning a lesson.

You know, those ugly Victorian era kids getting spanked.

And by the way, Gemma in Portuguese means egg yolk.

Wait, really?

Yeah, it means egg or egg yolk.

It's egg or either egg.

But one of the two I seriously think we're looking at.

Helena meant to have a baby for Kirsch consciousness.

And that boiled egg surrounds that ugly baby to remind us or hint at that.

I'm not ready to go that far.

But I do agree that, like, what.

Like, what are like the connotations of egg?

Right?

Like it's birth and it's new life, but also it's springtime, and there's no springtime here.

You can't spend all your money getting egg all dolled up for Easter.

Exactly.

I do the.

The opening shot of.

It's not the opening shot.

I think the swimming was good, too.

That the.

That clock is yeah.

Designed in such a way that if you are swimming to keep track of your.

Your exercise and the clock is always moving.

Right.

And if you're swimming laps in a pool, you're going to run into the end of the pool.

Right.

And have to start over.

And the idea of being.

Again, containment, like y'all are saying that all your effort is still.

You run into something and have to start again.

It reminded me a little bit of the bit in Hamlet where he's like, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself king of infinite space.

If it were not that I would have bad dreams.

Right.

It's like even the Egans are kind of trapped in their.

In their air, in their.

In their egg, in their.

Yeah.

But then the scene of her again splitting that egg, using the kitchen tool to do that in a.

In a clean way.

Delicate even.

The theme of the episode, to me, and really the.

What seems to be the theme of the season.

How much of your self bleeds between.

Yeah.

Severed souls.

But also specifically with the episode, I feel like they revealed a lot about who's severed, how many ways you can be severed, how they can use location to do it, all of these things.

And so splitting something like.

It's not a clean.

Any Audi thing anymore.

We already know Gemma's.

How many Gemmas are there?

So for her, it would be interesting if it was six.

Right.

Weren't there six pieces of the egg?

Yeah, there were six eggs.

Yeah.

So.

And then you get the yolk versus the white of the egg, you know, Totally.

And I think now we're questioning how.

How many times has heli been severed?

How many times was Bert severed?

How many times has cobell been severed?

You know, when they're going to, like, they can take Mark into this.

I know I'm getting way ahead of our methodology here, but going to this cabin or the.

The terrifying car ride with the.

The poor puppy, you're wondering, like, just let's leave the dog out of it here.

Is that implied that he was.

When he was driving.

He's able to go to space.

That is severed.

We'll get all.

Get to all that.

But they set it up early.

Before we leave the egg idea.

Excuse me.

Before we leave the cold open.

You're talking about Helena swimming.

There's a little connection with Ms.

Huang.

She breaks her toy of someone swimming.

It's an Egan, I think it's supposed to be swimming.

And then, you know, it's kind of the idea there that Helena is the toy that they're playing.

With.

And she's being destroyed too.

You got to destroy to grow or something like that might be the message.

Or just have someone destroy something because you're.

There's like an act of vengeance involved.

I mean, Milchek definitely was getting back at her.

Yeah, that's wong for that.

Also interesting swimming that Helena went through the ordeal of almost being drowned.

Right.

Like, we've seen her in water before.

Yeah, yeah, that's good.

I forgot about that.

Or I forgot to connect that.

So it's Ms.

Swank's last day, and she here.

She's treated so much less like she was in the first couple episodes where she seemed in charge and almost scary.

And she's back to being a kid again.

I mean, part of that's Milchick, right?

Like, he knows who.

Who ratted him out on the big words thing, which clearly gets under his skin.

He's sick of everybody's shit, though.

He's done.

He wants you to consume feculence or whatever.

Devour feculence.

That's what it was.

Devour.

Hear.

Hear from Milchick.

Man, that was a pretty ominous and threatening Christopher Walken his birthday, just sitting in Irv's house apartment.

You think the dog's gonna be okay?

Oh, I'm not.

I'm not positive.

You know, he's got that walking always has that nice balance of friendly and nice and funny and menacing.

Another division.

The dividing lines, though, with innies and outies do get bolder.

Helena's Milchick's boss, right?

But heli is the employee.

And then we get.

Dylan at home is furious, but Dylan at work is in love with Gretchen, his own wife.

His any proposes.

It's wild.

You know, Adam has oft discussed how childlike these enies can be.

Dylan's devotion to Gretchen kind of shows that it's childlike love.

It's teenage.

Little arts.

Arts and crafts ring, too.

Well, yeah.

Yeah, that is pretty.

You know, like, he made.

He made.

Made it.

But it looks like it's a little art, like, from school.

It is his only choice, but it's still.

Yeah, these arts and crafts.

Yeah, it is arts and crafts.

And he just thinks, I love you, marry me.

You know, that's how it works.

And with no thought onto, like, what does that even mean in this world?

Does she stay there?

You know?

Yeah, exactly.

She come every day.

I suppose his idea was that she would come every day and they would.

Make out, which is also like, kind of like a kid's idea of.

Of what adults do.

Right.

Where it's like.

Or what marriage is like.

Oh, well, they kiss.

Smoochie kiss.

Yeah, smoochie kiss.

Exactly.

I saw that episode of Bluey.

This is another example of, you know, we've talked again and again about how unafraid they are of just running straight through mysteries and complexities that other shows would.

Would milk for much longer periods of time.

It's like when.

When Gretchen says I kissed your any.

Yeah.

Like.

Well, they could have gotten way more value out of this.

They say all the quiet parts of that out loud.

Yeah.

You know, even down to like, he reminds me of who you.

How you used to be.

Yeah.

It.

I almost wondered if it wouldn't.

It's more devastating to think than to have them say.

But it was, turns out pretty damn devastating for her to say out loud.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's funny too because like, Adam made such a good point about like, the Innies are childish, but Dylan's outtie is like, obviously his feelings are hurt, but he's childish too, in a way.

Oh, yeah.

You know, he's.

Yeah.

We talked about him having this arrested development at home there.

I mean, they even like, oh, I'm going to work for my paycheck or maybe I won't.

Maybe I'll quit.

Like that's what like kids say to make you.

You know what I mean?

He's just trying to make her mad and it's not even very sophisticated.

Right.

He's just gonna hurl words at you.

There's this idea that separation is a form of insanity.

That's not me mentality.

Included in all of this is an excellent form and function kind of shot, I suppose, with the camera.

Dylan commiserates with Helly and the camera cuts him in half.

It's so good.

Such a nice shot.

He's framed really well a few ways.

I mean, I think one of the shots of the episode is him waiting at the elevator, you know, after he's resigned and.

Yeah.

What?

The painting is Kier pardoning his doubters or something?

Unbeliever.

Something like that.

His head is on the.

On the chopping block.

Yeah.

Donovan, you noticed something about Akir painting from maybe earlier?

Like earlier it was this episode.

Go ahead.

I'd seen it a couple times earlier, but I noticed it this episode, this.

I'm sure we got to get the Reddit report on this because I'm sure they're all about it, but we see someone in a blue Union army looking uniform on the.

In a portrait on the wall.

I'm assuming it's Kier and Cold harbor was a Civil War battle between the army of the Potomac and Army of Northern Virginia during Grant's Overland campaign.

Does this mean anything?

I don't know, but I feel like they've kind of put, like, Kieran, like Civil War duds before.

Well, and the company started in 1865.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

None of this is coincidence.

Cold harbor was known for being.

Even though the Confederate forces were overwhelmed, they had good defensive positions and repulsed the Union attacks after a couple very, very bloody days.

So take that for what you will.

Good info.

You know, before we leave the Gretchen and Dylan thing, for him to say out loud, you're going to use my body to cheat on me.

Yeah, yeah.

And then to go to his conversation, his innie's conversation with Heli, who has been complicit in the most gross form of that that we've seen so far.

Kind of the theme of the early season is what does it mean that now both have slept with Mark?

You know, and I think most of the viewership thinks that she's pregnant.

And what is that going to mean when she, you know, they're building up so especially on the today of the show where Cold Harbor's supposed to be completed and some people think that there's something going on with consciousness.

Is Helly going to go down into the.

The lower levels to complete whatever the project?

Is Gemma going to survive this process?

It's all so interconnected and it feels like the.

The net is tightening.

Someone who cannot separate, I think at least not through her own will, is harmony.

She tries to take that softer tone with Mark and it feels so disingenuous.

It's like someone unused to display, displaying care or showing care.

In that snow scene with mark, I.

Think Mr.

Milchick being called out for his vocabulary usage is interesting when Hobel.

Not that she uses the.

The length of words, but she speaks in a very antiquated.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like stilted.

Or if you want to be more negative, pretentious.

What she's saying when she's in the office, it's almost like, oh, she's almost the mouthpiece of Lumen.

You know what I mean?

And maybe they want her to have this affectation.

Yep.

But they clearly don't because now we see behind the scenes with Milchick that they're trying to cut down on it.

But then she also carries it literally into the wild.

You know, this is just funny how.

She brings that up because my very next question in my notes was, what's the demand for Milchick using these simple words when all the Egans and devotees use these antiquarians equated terms, that can definitely get a little lengthy.

I don't understand why they're demanding that of him other than to connect with the workers.

Right.

Are they.

Do they really view them as children?

That's right.

Are they missing some of the things that you're saying?

Yeah.

Everyone's anger here is being used to level up.

Mark gives it to Milchek over the phone.

Dylan gives it to Milchick, you know, a little.

Milchick gives it to Drummond.

A penultimate episode for sure.

Well, you got Heli realizing that she's actually Milchick's boss.

Even though she has no authority in that moment, she still gives a look like, physically, I should.

You should think of the me that's in charge of you.

You know, I mean, she takes total authority in that scene.

And then Mark and Milchek almost talk to each other as equals by the end of that conversation.

But then Milchick, when he says eat shit, he is clearly only punching up.

You know what I mean?

Uh huh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's the line that work is just work that gets d.

Milchick.

And then he stares at the painting.

And I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be a reminder to us to remember the painting he got.

That was pretty insulting to him.

That.

That's what I thought.

When he's looking at the painting, it's like.

It's.

It's a.

I thought it was a callback.

Well, it's also.

He's.

The painting is of an iceberg.

Right?

Yeah.

That like Mark doesn't fully understand.

Even Audi, Mark, who was like really pulling at the threads, still doesn't understand the extent of what's happening here.

Yeah, sure.

There's also the balance.

Yeah.

Literally underneath, physically, in this.

In the opening shots where they establish.

You know, there's all these amazing shots for both seasons of the office building or the facility that they're in this time.

It was framed as an overhead where everything's perfectly symmetrical and balanced.

I just find it odd that they're so cruel to Milchick.

I understand that they would want to get him in line and do what they want, but he's pretty.

They're pretty cruel because he seems like such a company man.

I mean, he is our only black character, really, besides Dylan G.

He's the only black management character.

He got those paintings that were insulting.

Well, I think the lady who kind of works in a Secretarial position, isn't she?

Is she management?

Well, she works.

She works right there with them.

Oh.

I thought she was like, an executive assistant or something.

Yeah, but she's.

But she still can.

Seems to be in control of quite a lot.

Yeah.

Although, you know, they had that moment with the paintings.

They kind of shared that look.

Right.

Totally.

I.

I wonder if that's the reason.

I mean, I.

I don't have anything, like, super solid, but.

Well, it goes back to that Civil War era.

Your vocabulary, right.

Like, you're using big words.

Like, you're getting.

You're not supposed to do that.

Right.

You're getting above your station.

You're getting uppity.

That does tell you what to do.

You know, Civil War era.

And.

And before, when you did not allow black people to read.

It was a law or learned to read.

It was a law in many places.

Adam said that they're saying the quiet part out loud.

But there is a lot left unspoken between Bert and Irv.

Man, I love John and Turturro, man.

And.

And him playing off a walk in.

Yes.

Yeah.

So when he's like, I'm ready.

Yeah.

You know, and walking's like, we can't.

And he just keeps leaning in.

What a great.

You know, honest.

Like, I always liked him, but I don't think I appreciated him maybe in the way I should have until watching the show tutorial.

I mean.

Yeah.

Watching Severance, he got me with this HBO performance in Night of.

Mm.

Yeah, that's where you got me.

That's a good one.

Adam, how much did you think about Dolores Price from real life and the show?

Say nothing.

I'm still thinking about it, to be.

Honest with you, because that's basically Bert's job.

I just drive.

I don't know what happens.

Well, and here's the dark part of it, and I'll bring it back to say nothing.

If he's driving to a location where he is physically committing whatever act needs to be committed.

Hitman, whatever he's doing, but he's doing it in a severed sense.

He's.

He's not handing him, whoever the person is off to different authorities.

He could be doing the act.

Oh, wow.

And then walking back out.

And so that's when.

Another version of him.

Right.

It's a throwback.

And it's when his husband says, well, you've been with them for 20 years.

And he says, well, the.

The severed floor has only been there for 12.

He spent eight years, as.

I think you can read that, as this severed hitman who was then kind of put out to pasture and allowed to complete his career as a good guy.

And so when his most innocent version of himself falls for this guy, of course he's going to take care of him.

Yeah.

It almost sounded like Bert was severed at times and during that speech.

But it's also possible that he was severed in different ways or in many.

I think he's been severed now that they've shown that that's possible.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you have to question.

The severed floor is one extension of what they could have been doing for some time.

Yeah.

You know, if you need people to do bad things for you, there's a bunch of reasons for them to be severed.

Right.

Like, they get to continue being normal people in society.

They can't testify.

They can't testify.

Exactly.

You know, very practical.

Yeah.

Version of it.

And I think, you know, it.

It somehow to continue going back to say nothing.

This is what is driving these people crazy who finally agree to interviews.

And that's the whole tension of the show.

Right.

I mean, in addition to the factual things that happen.

But that they never get that holding all of that in is killing all of them.

And that's the same thing happening here is.

But I love that.

I felt like Adam really just hit a bunch of stuff on the head.

And I love how this works in a way that, like, ups the tension, escalates it, but also continues to ask that fundamental question, like, where is the self?

Who is the self?

Point to the self.

And.

And the tension between, like, are these all different people?

Is there the possibility of a cohesive whole?

Which Adam just summed up brilliantly.

Right.

Like, you.

Even if you're severed, maybe you still have this inside you.

Rarely does, like, the, like, big theme and, like, the plot come together in such a good way.

I just thought it was really good.

Turturro's sadness on his on the train was just palpable.

Yeah, I know the word cinematics overused.

But those scenes, especially after boarding the train, did feel more.

More like a movie than television because you have to have characters and actors tell what they're feeling through their actions.

Because you don't have as much time in a movie, you know, that you have to read their emotions a little bit more.

Television writers will often just try to fill in their 45 minutes with saying that kind of stuff out loud.

I thought that was a genius scene because it's.

He's upset that, you know, there is a.

This is.

I was gonna say without thinking about it.

There is a version of the future where they stay together, but he's also saying, I've never had anybody love me, not really in this way.

And that someone is putting themselves in harm's way on his behalf.

I think there's.

There's glimpses of a smile and, you know, he's.

He.

That's why he's so good tutoro.

I mean, Irv is making it out alive.

I don't.

I think we have too much clock left to lose him as an actor.

I think he's still tied in some way, but someone has made a sacrifice for him, and he's sad that that relationship can't continue.

But acknowledging as valid that sacrifice and that love.

It's a really beautiful moment.

It feels more like melancholy than depressing.

You know what I mean?

Where they're totally.

Yeah.

Bittersweet.

I know that.

I know that this person loves me this much, but it's costing me all of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's get toward the end here.

How about Cobell, lit by that fire from behind to remind us of Bert.

That fire.

Hellish look did we have.

This director has.

I believe it was a shield, though.

I apologize whoever directed if I'm misgender.

Yeah.

Have we had this director before?

Because I thought this episode especially was really well directed.

And I was looking.

Honestly, I was looking for Ben Stiller when the credits came.

And the.

Directed by was somebody.

A name that I didn't recognize.

She directed episode six.

She's the one that directed Attila, which is the.

The dinner.

So she is a fan of lighting with the fire behind them.

I love it.

I love it.

Gives you that sense of a devil there.

Yeah, she's very good.

Sorry to back up, but I was talking about Dylan being childlike.

It reinforces Adam's idea.

The way I remember now, the way he screams.

Gretchen, that was not in his usual vocal inflection.

He was a kid screaming at Mommy.

Yeah.

It sounded weird.

It did not sound like him.

Yeah.

So what are we to.

You know, there was a big question of, is Harmony a good guy now?

But I.

I don't think so.

Not at all.

I think she.

She wants the power that she's supposed to have because she evaded the.

The severed technique.

Yeah.

I think she's gonna go with you as long as it accords with her purposes.

Because isn't that.

Unless we have a real.

Come to Jesus, isn't that kind of all we've seen from her this entire series?

And even.

I mean, kind of.

Even the one where she, like.

Yeah, she has some tender moments, but, like, she's after.

Sorry.

In the last episode.

But she's.

She's after her own goals and she is not.

She's not going to quit that.

I think we have to ask the motives of Helena and Coble kind of in tandem.

Like, maybe they're two sides of the same coin.

One is desperate to get credit to be recognized, and one is.

I mean, are we to read that that's Koble's motivation here?

I mean, without any.

Without knowing what her altruistic good intentions would be?

I mean, I guess they're to say Mark, but, you know, I think Helena is, if anything, maybe trying to find a way to escape being who she is.

Because she could play heli for a while, Right?

Well, either that or.

And maybe that even made her happy.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's why she watches Helly making out with Mark over and over again.

The security footage.

Yeah, I agree.

But if they're able to change consciousness, if she could somehow, like, get into Gemma's body or something, or use whatever nefarious they have going on in the basement to shed her skin, you know that she's been in this prison, really, Even when she's an Audi, she's still in, like, a gilded cage.

Yeah, she's in her shell.

I can see that.

Especially after this episode.

They're gonna Freaky Friday.

Someone.

I really don't know.

What.

Like, if Cobalt was trying to be a good person, what is her end goal?

Oh, I don't think she's trying to be a good person at all.

Unless I'm trying to come up with a reason to connect the dots on, like, why that I'm still unsure on what her motive is, you know?

Yeah, I definitely, like, I don't think I have, like, her entire motive, but it, like, it was kind of like, okay, you brought me up.

I gave you everything.

I gave you everything, and then you took it from me.

That's not fair.

And you're giving me almost nothing, especially with firing me here.

And then I would say, yeah, and then with the firing, it's like.

Honestly, I thought it kind of like, reached back, the firing, where it's like, okay, this explains some of the, like, the anger.

Like, obviously, it.

It was fine by itself.

Like, she's mad.

But now it's like, ah, like.

Like I gave you my.

My youth, you know?

Yeah, well, and if she.

You know, her, the way that she moved away very early in the season where she goes and confronts Helena and Helena says, Maybe you need a reset.

You know, we.

We inferred that something scary was happening there, but now that we know that Bert was a freaking hitman for the company, I mean, she's playing like, a true dangerous game, and she knows the stakes in a way that no one else on screen does other than maybe Bert.

Right.

Maybe Burt would know.

Right.

But of our first round of characters, like, I'm not.

Maybe Irving was getting at the truth.

Mark certainly doesn't know yet.

I think they think something bad is happening.

But how could you guess that this company has silencers out there, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've been happy with this show to just kind of like.

Like, it's fun to think about what might be, but honestly, I've been content to be like, it's gonna reveal itself as it goes along.

And I'm.

I'm fine.

I.

I feel like I have enough to chew on each episode that I'm not constantly, like, what's it gonna be?

What's it gonna be?

What's it gonna be?

Exactly.

And that's what makes it above average, above, you know, good.

It's not just a silly little puzzle box.

Yes.

I can enjoy the episode for what it is currently doing.

Yeah.

Here are some things to think about while we answer these other things that you can think about.

Exactly.

And I think it excels.

We've talked about this already more than once, but it makes you think about things that when you say them out loud, they almost seem simple, whether it's identity or how you experience reality.

Any of these things it reminds me of.

There's a great interview that Rick Rubin did with Brian Eno, and he says, how do you enjoy music?

Like, what really makes you sit up and take attention?

And Brian Eno says, if it sounds like something so simple that I could have done it, how did this not already exist?

That I remember.

But I didn't do it, and it makes me mad.

And I'm not mad that I didn't make the show, obviously, but I think there's something to like saying, like, really, really simple ideas that you experience in a profound way that means a piece of art has done something really great.

And I think after two seasons, we can comfortably say, obviously, we have one more episode with a season to go that is excelling at that.

That's a really good point, Adam.

If you do, like, cursory reading and philosophy, they're getting.

You start out at, like, what's the.

Like, it seems silly.

Like, every kid knows, but it tests your assumption of what everybody knows.

And I think this kind of does that where it's like, it seems so simple, but it's testing those long held beliefs and assumptions.

Well, and there's a reason that, you know, they, they talk about.

We talked about the eggs at the beginning.

They go to a, a compound piece of land dedicated to birthing, you know, like these ideas of like life at its most primitive state are constantly in your face in the show.

Good stuff.

We reached the end of our podcast and the great thing about a podcast our size is we notice all that comes our way and we often use it.

So you can head to the Alabama Take, which is our production site, click on podcast, scroll down to the this episode, probably high on that list of podcast episodes.

You can click it and leave us an idea you had while listening.

I guarantee you it's worth hearing.

Thank you all for listening and thanks to Adam and Donovan.

For Adam and Donovan, I'm Blaine and we hope Bert doesn't come to your house to drive you away.

Take care.