How 'Shōgun' Become Popular

[00:00:00] Yeah, we've been gone. If you're a regular listener, you've noticed this too is new. It's me. I'm the only one right now

[00:00:07] How are y'all? Is it spring yet? Where you are? It's nice here. We don't have a actual prolonged spring

[00:00:14] But it'll be hot no time right? Do you get the allergies? Can I be honest with you guys?

[00:00:19] I'm trying a new thing this year and I think it's keeping my allergies at bay so far so good

[00:00:26] I can be notorious with allergies message me. I'll tell you what it is. It's a welcome

[00:00:31] Yeah, by the way, you've seen the title of the episode, you know, what's in store we in a bit

[00:00:36] We're gonna run down show gun the first four episodes

[00:00:38] We're gonna answer why it's the most watched show at the moment

[00:00:43] Which it is if you're brand new or even if you're returning

[00:00:47] Welcome by God to the to the Alabama takes TV and streaming podcast

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[00:00:59] Did you find us with the algorithm because?

[00:01:02] No way that's happening. No way we're in we're that big were that

[00:01:06] Important for the algorithm to notice us, which is nice. That's what's nice about being little DIY

[00:01:12] But yeah, if you're a fan of another Alabama take production, that's that's really cool

[00:01:16] There are seven

[00:01:18] Podcast in the network you can jam them all we're working on kind of getting those umbrellaed even better for you word of mouth though

[00:01:26] That's really what you want. That's how things probably grow at least organically

[00:01:30] You don't want to be a part of the the algorithm

[00:01:33] Anyway, welcome. I hope you come back if we didn't cover a show you like or a movie that's streaming that you like

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[00:01:51] We are the Alabama takes TV and streaming podcast

[00:01:54] We help you see TV and maybe even Alabama itself from a different angle

[00:01:59] Lord knows that may need to happen with them Katie Britt fiasco

[00:02:04] Katie we want to love you, but you're playing to the lowest common denominator and you're brighter than that

[00:02:11] Prove me correct Katie

[00:02:13] Senator Britt

[00:02:14] I'll say it this week and maybe for a couple more weeks, but we kind of fancy ourselves southern thinkers

[00:02:21] Who want to break the norm of what Alabama probably means to?

[00:02:24] Most people in the state and well beyond I'm blame. I'm the editor-in-chief at the site the Alabama take which

[00:02:30] That's part of our MO there a little but it's also a lot of fun with me every week is Donovan usually

[00:02:38] He's not with me this week, but he's a media specialist film buff southern transplant and sweet Connecticut

[00:02:45] And we'll have adam. He's a traveling musician does a lot of studio work

[00:02:49] He's an urban farmer who brings the literary sense to the table

[00:02:54] Natalie joins us quite often. She's college professor reality series buff who will be with us today

[00:03:01] And our goal to we've taken it down is just to give you

[00:03:04] Some different ways of thinking about TV shows or streaming movies pay attention to the timestamps

[00:03:10] because we got a new thing going where

[00:03:13] Whatever show or movie we're gonna talk about we're gonna

[00:03:16] Discuss if we can recommend it into whom before we break any of it down at all

[00:03:21] That'll help you navigate these episodes going forward. So guaranteed spoiler free. So what happened? Where are we being?

[00:03:29] Uh, just dealing with existential crises

[00:03:32] Probably no not really

[00:03:35] Uh, you're just trying to figure out if what needs to happen

[00:03:39] What's what's good about the podcast? What needs to stay? What what needs to be ditched?

[00:03:43] We're gonna pick up with taking it down on video soon

[00:03:48] That'll air on Wednesdays on youtube and

[00:03:52] The alabama take calm exclusive to those two places

[00:03:56] You have to go to the Alabama take on youtube taking it down on video will be

[00:04:01] airing Wednesdays around 5 30 and of course, they'll be there you can always go back and watch it

[00:04:07] We can't cover everything time and work and work and shit like that. But uh,

[00:04:12] Sometimes we don't all agree with what watch like this week

[00:04:16] Uh, we found something we found showgun

[00:04:18] Talk about that soon, but I've been watching the gentleman on Netflix or the other folks have not

[00:04:24] Which is fine. That's great. I have

[00:04:27] avoided a lot of Netflix shows within the past couple of years unless they just get stellar reviews

[00:04:34] Netflix is this

[00:04:35] They're way more concerned with content than quality

[00:04:40] They're more in the the content business than the quality business. They it's like they want you to uh, have

[00:04:46] 100 things to pick from and maybe one of them might be decent

[00:04:50] They're way more interested in putting out 10 c minus shows on friday or tuesday or whenever than one a plus show that runs every sunday or

[00:04:59] Once a week on friday

[00:05:01] So the gentleman on Netflix wouldn't undercought my eye, but a friend recommended it a friend I trust and I liked it

[00:05:07] The first episode had me really hooked and I'll tell you why it was entertaining

[00:05:12] Pacing's well done. That should come as no surprise because it's created by guy richie

[00:05:16] He have frenetic pacing british wit

[00:05:20] He's toned that down though in his old age perhaps because

[00:05:24] Every cut of this show doesn't feel like it belongs in a music video for the prodigy

[00:05:29] He actually lets a couple of scenes breathe

[00:05:32] It's still guy richie and it's just enough of him to be fun

[00:05:36] And really entertaining and kind of funny

[00:05:40] This one starts the o james

[00:05:42] You remember him from the last season of the white lotus his character edwards in the british army

[00:05:46] He finds out his insanely stately father is on the decline and he heads home to find some

[00:05:53] Secrets old pause been keeping I won't tell you much more than that

[00:05:58] But it has a lovely appearance from

[00:06:00] Jean Carlos Pcito from breaking bad and more recently the Mandalorian

[00:06:05] Always good to see him in anything and he he learns that gravitas

[00:06:09] You know like when he comes on screen bam

[00:06:12] Stakes are raised and he does that here now every headline

[00:06:16] Online and beyond what's going to tell you more than that about the gentleman, but I'm

[00:06:20] I mean it for these three reasons which won't spoil a thing

[00:06:23] It's based just enough of guy richie signature flair that says not annoying, but it's addictive and propulsive

[00:06:29] Theo James is

[00:06:30] Timpered and likable in the role of edward

[00:06:33] He's calm and collected in a way that you want your protagonist to be

[00:06:38] And there's a character type here normally casted as a male

[00:06:42] But not in this series and it just adds to this slide

[00:06:46] Difference to the dynamic I think in a way that helps the show

[00:06:50] So that's the gentleman on netflix. Hey, who knew netflix still produced good quality shows?

[00:06:56] Yeah, they do every now and then that's about all I've got solo

[00:07:00] Just a southern guy trying to get some stereotype squashed

[00:07:04] Hey guys migrants are going aren't going to kill you. Let's get in the show

[00:07:11] Protection

[00:07:19] Hey, here we are a lot's going on

[00:07:22] The world has shifted liberal elites think we're dumb in Alabama now. Did y'all hear the news?

[00:07:30] Haven't they always thought that oh, I was just kind of sort of referencing Katie Britt again

[00:07:35] What do we have to say for ourselves now Hicks?

[00:07:38] I mean, you know, I told Nat. I'm not obviously a defender of

[00:07:43] Katie Britt, but if you're going to be lampooned by a national news outlet one

[00:07:47] It's kind of cool that you got to be on SNL and this car with Joe Hansen plays you. I mean, you guys feel pretty good

[00:07:52] Just nailed it too

[00:07:53] That's pretty good. It was good. Let's gather around your old microphone and talk about show gun

[00:07:58] That's our one and only topic this week

[00:08:00] And it's good because we've got our noted 17th century japanese historian natalie with us

[00:08:09] Noted

[00:08:09] Yes

[00:08:11] It's show a little history a little historical fiction current iteration of this

[00:08:16] Piece of fiction is brought to you by the creators rachel condo and justin marx and here's on fx as well as hulu

[00:08:23] You pick your poison

[00:08:25] You may remember the 1980 mini series of the same name if if so, how's your back?

[00:08:31] Are your are your knees out yet?

[00:08:33] Have you had your cholesterol checked?

[00:08:35] It's probably time for those things and if that mini series it's actually based on a 1975 book by james clival

[00:08:43] Same name and if you remember that release then you may want to begin planning your funeral

[00:08:47] So it's not to be such a burden to your family

[00:08:53] Yeah, new to our podcast though

[00:08:55] We're going to give you as little as you need to judge if the show is right for you before we spoil a thing

[00:09:00] At first it's our new edition recommend it

[00:09:04] Recommend it with qualifications or oh hell no that's

[00:09:08] Any phrase you want to use let's start adam showgun fx slash hulu

[00:09:14] recommend no

[00:09:17] Strong recommend you didn't you gave a few versions of no or recommend with qualifications like watch this if you

[00:09:26] Like jared

[00:09:29] Well, yeah, that is the only qualifier I guess otherwise recommend wholeheartedly full-throated

[00:09:35] recommendation

[00:09:36] Yeah, I think I mean if you are a I think there's probably

[00:09:41] something there for most people who enjoy watching episodic television, but

[00:09:46] specifically if you are a fan of the

[00:09:49] sword and sandal or

[00:09:52] People lining up in rows and fighting each other tradition

[00:09:56] As you know long-time listeners or remember my just glee at the prospect of a napoleon movie for several months

[00:10:04] So this program is definitely more for someone like me, but I do think

[00:10:09] And we can talk about this when we get into the meat of it

[00:10:11] But the success of something like a game of thrones tells me that there are a lot of people out there

[00:10:16] Who would enjoy this program so wholeheartedly recommend I agree. I think

[00:10:22] I do think that

[00:10:25] Sometimes these big

[00:10:26] Sometimes when you have like this really big like epic story that you know is going to happen

[00:10:30] The first episode can be

[00:10:33] Make or break as to whether or not you're going to invest in the rest of it

[00:10:37] Um, and I think that this first episode

[00:10:41] was touch and go

[00:10:43] And not not very

[00:10:45] I say that very lightly

[00:10:46] I think because there was a lot of reading this is not something you can watch while you're eating dinner because you got a

[00:10:51] Pay attention. I think that

[00:10:54] There was enough in episode one to make me want to watch episode two and then after episode two

[00:10:58] I was excited and all in I really like the

[00:11:01] Subtitles more than I thought I would because it does make me

[00:11:05] Pay full attention if I do respond to a text or whatever. I have to pause the show

[00:11:11] You know, I don't want to miss anything plus it's so layered full

[00:11:15] Uh recommendation

[00:11:16] I think like kind of like adam said if you're into historical fiction

[00:11:19] Yeah, of course, but I think there's a little something for everybody here not even a little there's a lot

[00:11:23] Just a little bit more information to help people decide

[00:11:26] it revolves around japan and

[00:11:28] 1600 at the beginning

[00:11:30] maybe of a

[00:11:32] of an electric and and crackling

[00:11:35] bit of tension japanese leader has recently died and

[00:11:39] Since his air is just too young to rule they're going to wait

[00:11:43] I think about four or five years of this

[00:11:45] The deceased leader has in place five equally powered regents to rule japan and all of its fiefdoms

[00:11:50] And as that first episode opens two things are having happening fairly simultaneously

[00:11:56] A dutch ship guided by an english pilot named john blackthorn has discovered japan

[00:12:02] Which was long held secret by the portuguese and

[00:12:05] They agreed to be the only country to trade

[00:12:08] And then the there's four the japanese regents who wish to impeach this gentleman named

[00:12:14] Tornaga and he seems to be maybe

[00:12:17] Shooting for some extra power

[00:12:19] Or that's the accusation they think if he's impeached that it's going to lead to his death and all of his people as well

[00:12:26] Now if that sounds like up your alley as well as with our all three of us recommending it then

[00:12:32] jump in here

[00:12:33] And and watch it and join us when you have

[00:12:36] We're going to spoil it right now

[00:12:38] Draw the spoiler line for the first four episodes. We're going that deep. Yeah, we are

[00:12:45] i'm down. Yeah me too

[00:12:47] We've all watched the first four

[00:12:49] We'll take it as big chunk here and maybe even talk about it weekly from here on out

[00:12:53] So spoilers are going ahead the only two things I remember about the 1980 mini series is that uh number one

[00:13:01] as a

[00:13:02] Four slash five year old kid. It looked really boring

[00:13:06] And number two a man got peed on in the first few minutes and I was appalled

[00:13:12] I could not believe anyone would pee on another person as they were lying down

[00:13:19] I was going to ask how you

[00:13:21] Remembered any of it and now I know that that's seared into your brain. Oh, yeah, that's the kind of thing

[00:13:26] You just live with

[00:13:28] How are your knees?

[00:13:31] These are good backs good too cholesterol

[00:13:37] Two out of three being good. That's pretty good. Good, right? I finally got able to sort through this dense plot

[00:13:43] Is it that dense?

[00:13:45] I think it is and I think that

[00:13:47] You saying it's a boring show there

[00:13:49] Is going to make me praise it even more. Oh, it's a four year old

[00:13:53] Right, but I mean there is the possibility to have a boring show in what this one is

[00:13:59] You know, they're doing that thing where they're

[00:14:02] explaining

[00:14:04] Natalie in the introduction I

[00:14:06] It almost seemed like you wanted to compare it to game of thrones or you have to do a bit of world building

[00:14:11] You know and then kind of pulled back because you realize. Oh, this is like an actual culture that exists

[00:14:16] Uh, I I do think in the same way that you would for

[00:14:20] You know even like an early american

[00:14:23] period piece or whatever you have to kind of learn the

[00:14:26] The customs and the

[00:14:28] The things that that dictate how that society works. So I do think that's a fair statement. So they're world building and

[00:14:35] introducing pretty complex

[00:14:37] Conflict and keeping it exciting all with like a very human touch. Yeah, if you if you handle your complexity

[00:14:44] Well, I'm all in I like a complex

[00:14:47] story

[00:14:48] You know, I like having to lean in and go wait that guy's related to who and why who's he trying to double cross

[00:14:54] What's happening here?

[00:14:56] But it's not convoluted. No, it's not convoluted. It's complex exactly. Yeah

[00:15:00] Yeah, I we I hate that donovan's not with us this week because

[00:15:03] One of the key points to note is that black thorn and his crewmates

[00:15:07] They're down to about what 15 or so from 500

[00:15:10] They are Protestant and they hate catholics and I just feel like donovan would have a lot to expand on with that

[00:15:17] Is it because donovans a piscopalian? Yes

[00:15:20] He

[00:15:23] He also has strong opinions about Rome. Yeah

[00:15:26] He doesn't no he doesn't but yes, it's not only is there complexity, but it's intrigue, you know

[00:15:31] That's kind of what I think is going to work for almost anybody who watches this

[00:15:37] The intrigue and since we are in spoiler territory, there's even

[00:15:41] There's action and there's a there's a little romance that starting to develop. We'll get to that soon

[00:15:46] But yeah, the once black black thorn finds out that toranaga is a prisoner within the castle

[00:15:52] And that to be his ally kind of spells death

[00:15:55] Since the other regents want him dead or planning on

[00:15:58] Impaging him so they can kill him. There's that initial intrigue of does black thorn

[00:16:03] When I help him or hinder him push him more toward

[00:16:07] Getting impeached and killed and of course toranaga is using his power to

[00:16:12] Use black thorn as a prisoner as a pawn to rile up the christian regents against the other

[00:16:18] What two or one?

[00:16:20] The whole thing seems to revolve around these early episodes

[00:16:25] Those two men's motivations

[00:16:27] And at first it seems like black thorns is like simply to stay alive

[00:16:31] And maybe that is me projecting myself into that situation, especially after that

[00:16:36] Very very rough scene of what they do to one of his crew members

[00:16:39] Think after that, I think the stakes would be a little high for me

[00:16:42] I would just want to continue breathing and be on my way

[00:16:45] But he's he's got a bigger game in mind

[00:16:48] And I think that the complexity of that was a little tough to understand at first

[00:16:53] There were some moments that me and natalie were trying to figure out like who's

[00:16:56] Who's doing what on whose behalf and who's

[00:16:59] allied with who and

[00:17:01] There have been some some scenes at night that are particularly confusing in the words of months where jeffrey evans

[00:17:07] Like most things it comes down to money

[00:17:11] As soon as black thorn learns this from a fellow prisoner who's an old portuguese priest

[00:17:18] He was there to convert souls until he he saw it was a lot about cash money himself

[00:17:23] You know, he reveals. Oh no the portuguese are really just uh

[00:17:27] Giving these regents a ton of money so that they can you know have a good trade relations and make money themselves

[00:17:34] And they've got this little fortress in mcow

[00:17:37] There's a lot more going on than these people realize

[00:17:41] It made me think a lot of

[00:17:43] Silence, okay. I was yes. It does me too, but I never watched it and I was I knew you had I was gonna ask

[00:17:49] What's the relationship there?

[00:17:51] I was a big fan of it natalie. Were you also reminded of of silence?

[00:17:57] Well, I kept thinking about how it's all I know about that era of japan is

[00:18:02] From what I saw in silence. Yeah, is it is it the same era or is it?

[00:18:05] Silence based years before

[00:18:08] 16 it would have been the portuguese

[00:18:10] yeah, spreading the good word and

[00:18:14] being forced to uh

[00:18:16] You know, andrew garfield's character is going through these this crisis of faith the whole time and

[00:18:22] deciding whether to

[00:18:24] Stick with it stick to his guns, you know in the face of a culture that doesn't really want them

[00:18:28] But he's also getting some calm. It's been years since I've seen the movie

[00:18:32] It just seemed like it was an extension of

[00:18:35] Of that world and a lot of like like Natalie said fast forward a few years. Okay, that's good

[00:18:40] Could be a good preface to this

[00:18:43] showgun

[00:18:44] Yeah, and it's definitely it's a more spiritual film

[00:18:49] You know, there's a lot of

[00:18:50] If you're watching if you watch silence through the lens that shogun is going

[00:18:55] Yeah, it's gonna feel it's gonna feel very um like a lot a lot like no, it's gonna say like propaganda

[00:19:01] For the portuguese

[00:19:03] Yeah, okay. Well really for one guy

[00:19:05] Right, but since shogun is very like the portuguese are corrupt and doing all these terrible things

[00:19:10] It's just fun. It's just uh because dutch and british colonialism is

[00:19:15] Just

[00:19:16] Sparkling clean. Oh, I'm not I'm not taking a side here

[00:19:21] But I think I think we are to bring to the experience of watching at the knowledge that like there are no good guys

[00:19:27] You know, like he's paying the portuguese is bad even though black thorn seems to be just a complete loose cannon

[00:19:35] both uh politically and

[00:19:39] You know, blaine you identified him as protestant, which he I guess he is but he seems pretty uh

[00:19:44] Loosely affiliated

[00:19:46] A little more agnostic about it. Yeah, it's impressive how

[00:19:50] These japanese soldiers managed to get a head off with one blow

[00:19:54] But that's gotta be a sharp sword right that does that is it in the is it in the method of the of the strut

[00:20:02] I don't either. You know, this happens a lot and if you watch sam raya jason

[00:20:07] Yeah films. Is that realistic? Yeah, I guess it is right

[00:20:11] I mean when they would do the

[00:20:13] The ritualistic suicide

[00:20:15] There was the second behind them who as soon as they make the cut they cut their head off and that's

[00:20:21] That's real apparently though from my reading of this

[00:20:25] iteration of showgun

[00:20:26] They are trying to keep it as very realistic as possible the fact that this version has black thorn

[00:20:32] Teaching them how to use cannons is different than the others because they would have already known about rifles

[00:20:39] For 20 years or so. So him going here's how you shoot a rifle. That would have been very unrealistic

[00:20:44] That would have been an easier show to make in a lot of ways. It would have been less expensive

[00:20:49] Yeah, well and also the just people who are fighting with swords suddenly having guns like well, we know who has the advantage

[00:20:58] I love the reveal

[00:21:00] With black thorn telling torinaga

[00:21:04] through the translation translation of uh, mcow. Me. What's her name? I've got it written nobody knows

[00:21:12] Nobody's brave enough to try to remember. Well, I've got it somewhere. I just uh, I can see it kind of spilled

[00:21:17] I just have to think about how I would pronounce it

[00:21:21] Anyway through her which she's going to be a big factor of our conversation in just a second

[00:21:26] You know, he reveals this that hey these portugese

[00:21:29] They're planning to insert catholic rulers across the board and that's just such a great moment because torinaga gives

[00:21:36] You know, this guy is playing such

[00:21:39] nuance

[00:21:39] You know, it's it's a barely lifted eyebrow that he's doing and you're supposed to read that

[00:21:45] With some depth and I just love it

[00:21:47] But he says did he really use the word gave wasn't that the word he uses that they gave us

[00:21:54] Something like that or a louder it just implied that

[00:21:57] Yeah, that they were underling second class. Yeah, and it's just a huge moment

[00:22:01] And they don't try to push your nose into it

[00:22:04] Torinaga already has a little bit of a silent rage of knowing that there's people who who want him ousted

[00:22:09] Just kudos to that guy in his performance

[00:22:12] That scene that you're describing where he's

[00:22:15] Blackthorn is asked to draw the world as he knows it

[00:22:19] Is such a good because when you brought up the fact that everything is through this

[00:22:25] Shroud of

[00:22:28] Translators for him like his survival depends on people telling the truth about what he's saying in Japanese

[00:22:33] Both that and like draw the world as you think it is, you know, like how imagine living in a time where like

[00:22:41] Not everybody agrees or knows about what continents are where

[00:22:45] That's just crazy. What I love what I loved about that too is if you were to not be paying very much attention

[00:22:52] The show or maybe walking through the room while your husband or wife was watching this

[00:22:56] You would think that's the most unimportant scene you've ever it's you would shrug your shoulders

[00:23:00] I'm sure but if you're a fan of the show or you've been watching it carefully

[00:23:05] That is a lean in moment where you're just like he just dropped a

[00:23:09] Knowledge bomb on tornaga and tornaga is probably about to get really angry

[00:23:14] And it just defined the stakes of yeah

[00:23:17] It raises the level of adventure that blackthorns on that he can be somewhere where

[00:23:23] People don't even know what london is, you know, and how much danger he's in

[00:23:28] That he has to trust

[00:23:30] People to interpret his words

[00:23:32] Properly it's it's just wild. It's to go back to what kind of what Natalie was hinting at the world building of it is very good

[00:23:39] And they're not going to do this I wouldn't imagine but

[00:23:42] the

[00:23:43] visual juxtaposition juxtaposition of london versus 1600 japan versus 1600 london

[00:23:50] We've all seen you know, the creators are allow are

[00:23:54] Using our knowledge of all these shows we've seen about jack the ripper would honestly be too modern

[00:24:00] You know the dirty filthy muddy streets of london at this time

[00:24:03] Right versus ship covered streets and yeah, sooty faces and all that. Yeah cosmo jarvis is the actor playing

[00:24:11] Blackthorn

[00:24:12] Did not know him at all and I was surprised an unknown actor landed the park

[00:24:17] But he is killing it despite

[00:24:20] Running where tom hardy

[00:24:22] Walked we definitely had a moment in the first episode where we said this guy looks like four different actors in one

[00:24:29] I kept thinking ways. Is this tom hardy? Why does he sound like tom hardy?

[00:24:33] Is he trying to the haircut has has done him some favor the haircut work wonders

[00:24:37] Yeah, and he's a nice looking guy after the haircut his line rating of two baths in one week

[00:24:43] Was good stuff. That's incredulous enough to be hilarious

[00:24:48] Which isn't even accounting for his line for in the third episode about a doctor if if he's not a warlock

[00:24:53] He's most certainly a pimp

[00:24:56] I do think this show is probably I think if you're a native japanese speaker

[00:25:01] I think this show is a lot funnier than what we get through the translation. Yeah, yeah it could be

[00:25:07] Uh, I still think it's kind of funny. It's amazing that they are

[00:25:10] Allowing or able to sprinkle some humor in it

[00:25:15] It's a it's a good balancing act of that as well as the political with the mental

[00:25:19] This fish out of water

[00:25:20] Guy like adam was talking about having to learn about his fate through a translation that he may or may not could trust

[00:25:27] At least not in the beginning. I think he does come to trust the the lady who's helping him

[00:25:33] Hey, this is jeremy from polyphonic press along with my co-host and best friend john van dyke

[00:25:39] We are exploring classic albums completely at random

[00:25:43] At the top of each show we have no idea what album we're going to be listening to

[00:25:47] We have the patented random album generator to give us an album

[00:25:51] Sometimes it's an album. We're very familiar with and sometimes it's an artist

[00:25:55] We have never heard of either way

[00:25:57] It gives us a chance to really listen to these classic releases and gives us insights that we may never have thought of before

[00:26:03] For for something to come out of them. Maybe he needed the other Beatles in the room at that time

[00:26:09] Well, I think so and I think if you if you watch that that peter jackson documentary from from a few years ago

[00:26:17] about

[00:26:18] The let it be sessions. I think you know, it was kind of the writing was on the wall

[00:26:23] I mean they were breaking up john lennon didn't sign the the papers to officially dissolve the Beatles until 1974

[00:26:31] So if this sounds interesting be sure to follow polyphonic press on apple podcasts spotify

[00:26:38] YouTube and everywhere else podcasts are available

[00:26:42] We upload every Tuesday morning and we strongly encourage you to listen along with us

[00:26:47] Cheers

[00:26:54] Don't forget to visit the alabama tape.com as well as the alabama take on youtube

[00:27:01] Now back to this week's episode of taking it down

[00:27:05] We did mention lots of game of thrones comparisons online

[00:27:10] Like game of thrones, but with samurais

[00:27:12] I don't find it quite as close as maybe those comparisons would make honestly

[00:27:16] To me, it's a lot more like deadwood, but in japan

[00:27:19] Well, I know you guys haven't seen deadwood

[00:27:21] But I think fans of deadwood would can see this too because it has that

[00:27:25] political complexity but with guns right with the uh six shooter

[00:27:30] Yeah, I was when I roughed that up the game of thrones comparison

[00:27:34] It was going to be to praise this show for not leaning into what I think game of thrones could do at times

[00:27:41] Which is lowest common denominator shock factor

[00:27:45] over

[00:27:47] Yeah, or just brutal death or whatever. Yeah

[00:27:51] It doesn't do that. There's a there's a verb there was gonna laugh. It's like titillation almost on game of thrones

[00:27:58] instead of

[00:28:01] Instead of just actual

[00:28:03] Strong storytelling, you know, obviously game of thrones was at a time a great show with a great world and story

[00:28:11] But this just has relied on

[00:28:14] Fairly grounded complex nuanced story. It's so impressive and it seemed like there was a race to

[00:28:22] To shock

[00:28:23] In the wake of game of thrones season one that this is not

[00:28:27] Falling into the trend. I know it has a source material. Yeah, so it has that going for it

[00:28:31] But it just seems like oh we're we're making we're making shows again

[00:28:36] And just kind of slow burn into

[00:28:39] Something good as complex as some of these plot lines can be

[00:28:43] What about this third episode which is basically nothing more than a jailbreak in 1600 japan and a hell of a boat race

[00:28:50] I was just you know, let's just simplify

[00:28:52] Everybody understands black thorn

[00:28:55] torinaga

[00:28:56] They need to get the hell out of the city and they got these little

[00:28:59] Cloak and dagger moves to get torinaga hidden and then they're on the boat in the middle of the night racing

[00:29:06] That's good stuff

[00:29:08] Well, they kind of come to respect black thorn it gives them a chance to

[00:29:12] To be shown to be tougher and more street wise than maybe they understood. Oh, yeah

[00:29:17] At first when he's kind of clued in on what's going on and yeah, he's less in assists

[00:29:22] Right

[00:29:23] And there's also the joy of the show is that you don't know who's going to double cross whom and when this

[00:29:27] Japanese stoicism may erupt into blood

[00:29:30] I feel like any thing could just end up with somebody drawing their sword and chopping one another up

[00:29:36] Well, I they did do the thing where they defined the the stakes

[00:29:41] And the the shock of it when the guy who loses his temper in the first episode is

[00:29:46] Condemned to the the ritualistic suicide. So you know when he's so sad

[00:29:51] It's not just like a cute thing where he

[00:29:54] But I say they don't do the shock factor. They did kill a baby in the first episode. So maybe I should not have that

[00:29:59] Yeah, just to be fair to the show

[00:30:01] Right, but you you know that when he hides in that

[00:30:05] That transport thing that if he gets caught everyone with him is going to die

[00:30:10] Kind of easy to forget that yasha bushi. Yeah, yeah

[00:30:14] Oh man, I really am good butcher. He's an important name

[00:30:17] He's the lord who put one of the sailors to death by boiling him, right?

[00:30:21] Hey this guy his whenever he smirks

[00:30:26] It just cracks me up. It makes me smile because it's interesting that he's so obsessed with death

[00:30:31] It's probably foreshadowing

[00:30:33] one would think but he's you know

[00:30:36] When he boils the sailor he asked at what point did he die?

[00:30:40] When did he lose life or whatever?

[00:30:42] And then he he brings it up again with tornauga a couple times and with you know, he's also aligned with

[00:30:49] Ishii though one of the other regions

[00:30:51] He's a former soldier for him. I think but now he's

[00:30:56] With tornauga

[00:30:58] As because tornauga has given him a five double. I suppose

[00:31:02] The ways that they are counting

[00:31:05] Loyalty and double crosses and respect and all of these things are we're having to learn

[00:31:11] The world of the show

[00:31:13] You know, obviously the guy who wrote the source material

[00:31:15] Was just writing a good book. I'm not sure it would be historically accurate

[00:31:19] So I'm not saying like learning Japanese society or whatever, but

[00:31:23] The rules are a little different than if this were in western europe in a similar time

[00:31:29] Yeah, we're kind of we're kind of a lot blackthorn in that way

[00:31:32] Right. So his character is you can't really figure out

[00:31:37] Just how selfish and ambitious he is versus

[00:31:40] Because he comes across at first is like the kid going towards the anthill with a magnifying glass that he's just kind of like

[00:31:48] Who is which which guy?

[00:31:50] You're the guy that you just set up. Uh, one of the

[00:31:53] Fafdom guys his name is it starts i'll spell it for anyone

[00:31:58] Y A S B U S H I G E

[00:32:02] Yes, bushegi

[00:32:04] I'm not sure

[00:32:06] We're speaking of the guy who fell off the cliff early on

[00:32:09] And he and now has cannons. Yeah. Yeah, he's in charge of the cannons for now

[00:32:15] Right, but you can't really totally

[00:32:18] I can't anyway figure out what he's about

[00:32:21] You know where his loyalties ultimately lie. Yeah, these are complex characters. It reminds me of tornauga saying

[00:32:27] tells his son

[00:32:28] Basically said there's no such thing as friends or enemies

[00:32:32] You know, he doesn't regret leaving blackthorn behind he used him as a tool

[00:32:39] To trade, you know, we they weren't gonna allow tor excuse me blackthorn on the ship and tornauga was like

[00:32:46] fine

[00:32:47] But then when he sees what he can do he makes him a high ranking official, but at the same time he's also

[00:32:54] Sort of tornauga's property

[00:32:57] As a high ranking official. So there's just a lot of complexity to this society

[00:33:02] It's like, you know what motivates them, but you don't know what action they'll take because of that motivation, I think

[00:33:09] Yeah

[00:33:09] That's a good way to to put it. Is the fact that this show is so popular surprising to either of you

[00:33:15] Is it popular? I think it's the most popular show right now. I think it's the most streamed show right now

[00:33:20] And it's which is surprising because usually that's a netflix show almost always

[00:33:24] I mean, i'm not surprised

[00:33:26] I hadn't really I guess I haven't really been paying attention

[00:33:30] But i'm not surprised at all I think it's I mean it whole it people love this stuff

[00:33:34] That's why so many people went to sol nipoleon give everybody a historical drama and they're in

[00:33:39] Little action

[00:33:40] little boobies

[00:33:42] It doesn't hurt that it's getting a lot of comparisons to game of thrones

[00:33:45] I'm sure some people are tuning in for that, but it's plan to be a limited series

[00:33:50] I'd be curious if they push for more somehow especially with its ratings and those comparisons

[00:33:57] FX would be foolish

[00:33:59] From a monetary standpoint not to try that of course i'm

[00:34:02] I'm a fan of one and done if that serves the story the best but

[00:34:05] Be hard not to maybe push the envelope with with making more seasons

[00:34:11] And I wonder where they would get more

[00:34:13] Material I don't know because I do not know how it ends or you know who survives what happens

[00:34:19] These episodes were filmed in order and so cosmo jarvis learns japanese at almost at the same rate as his character does

[00:34:28] Wow, I love I don't want any generous kukos when he thinks he's going to have to pillow with his console

[00:34:35] And of course the fourth episode the most recent is that's when the levee breaks on black thorn and

[00:34:43] Marquio their waters of love that levee finally breaks

[00:34:47] Was it was it too soon? Did that feel normal? Did that feel about well placed?

[00:34:51] That felt pretty on pace after his uh

[00:34:54] He finally caves to regular bathing and is caught in the hot pool or whatever

[00:34:58] Somebody goes soon to follow that right? I did think it was kind of funny that they

[00:35:03] They have a very obvious chemistry

[00:35:05] And the husband conveniently gets left behind maybe 45 minutes after you start thinking hey these two are kind of hitting it off

[00:35:13] How they can get rid of him there you go. Yeah, but he's not actually dead right no

[00:35:18] He didn't die and didn't die on screen. That's huge

[00:35:22] Game of Thrones logic. Yep. You know, I thought it was a smart way of filming to have them

[00:35:28] Not even looking at each other during one of their best moments

[00:35:32] As he sat in the water facing away from her something about that was a little different and nice

[00:35:38] Trying to keep some decency

[00:35:40] Sure, uh again, I can't comment on other iterations, but I I do like that this shows about imprisonment

[00:35:47] Be it literal or not

[00:35:49] Maybe imprisonment of ones on making and I I'm a master of the eightfold fence didn't even know it had a name

[00:35:57] Being a great distance away inside yourself from what's going on outside is

[00:36:01] Reminiscent of a wonderful john prine song to other side of town. You heard that one

[00:36:06] Well, it reminds me too of uh

[00:36:08] The advice that michael steyt gave to tom york who then turned it into a song. I'm not here. This isn't happening. Yeah

[00:36:15] That's it. That's the eightfold fence, which I think we all got a little of that

[00:36:20] you saying that about the

[00:36:23] imprisonment when when they are at the pool

[00:36:26] the bathing

[00:36:28] Tub or whatever and they talk about, you know, she's already told them we build our houses

[00:36:33] Because of the earthquake so that they can fall and come back up and she

[00:36:37] Kind of waxes poetic about how death is just everywhere and they're kind of looking out over

[00:36:43] An expanse of water. It's like well this

[00:36:45] they're just stuck in this like cauldron of a

[00:36:49] Country a crucible of a country. Yeah. Yeah that they

[00:36:53] They're imprisoned in

[00:36:56] Winter things ever just peaceful for people at this

[00:37:00] level of power

[00:37:02] That's good

[00:37:03] And then we'll wrap here with episode four's ending huge ending tornaga sun decides

[00:37:09] No, I don't I don't want is she those

[00:37:13] Men here inspecting us watching what we do. I'm just gonna

[00:37:16] fire some cannons at them

[00:37:19] Heck of an ending as brutal

[00:37:21] In terms of like a shocked military much in the way that like when napoleon

[00:37:26] Traps the the army on the ice, you know, it's the same kind of like, oh, wow

[00:37:30] How did the cannons get over there kind of thing?

[00:37:33] And he pulls it off. There's that but then the the brutality of

[00:37:37] Natalie, I'm surprised that you kept watching because the horses did not fare well in this scene. It was it was rough

[00:37:44] rough for the horses, but the

[00:37:46] this this kind of

[00:37:48] Show has been made so many times in film and tv like the last samurai kind of

[00:37:54] At that time movie, you know, like where the maybe dignity of

[00:37:59] samurai culture is like confronted with

[00:38:02] the horror of

[00:38:04] gunpowder and

[00:38:06] brutality

[00:38:07] Uh in the way that the europeans have used it them just laying in their own, you know

[00:38:13] Physical destruction and the guy the samurai with his hand his arm blown off

[00:38:18] Saying this is not jensen. Yes still just being completely

[00:38:22] With it and not emoting any pain whatsoever

[00:38:26] Saying this is not samurai was uh, that was good stuff

[00:38:29] Yeah

[00:38:29] In that long tradition any guesses as to what tornaga's doing in ido while his son's making a disaster

[00:38:36] in his name

[00:38:37] Is that is that crucial? Is that important? It's gotta be right. Why else get him out of the picture

[00:38:42] I think he's uh, he's playing a game of chess that I can't keep up with as a viewer

[00:38:48] Do we know how many episodes they're gonna be total 10

[00:38:51] I hadn't looked in hopes that an fx may make a longer run than an hbo

[00:38:55] Yeah, it's 10, but I mean that was the end of the fourth and things are very much escalated

[00:39:02] The six more episodes will be great, but it's a fun world to live in

[00:39:06] Very much. Yeah, it's exciting

[00:39:09] Well, that's it for this week follow the podcast in your app rate it review it if you like youtube

[00:39:16] Subscribe to the alabama take there and you'll see all of the alabama take podcast the day of release for

[00:39:23] Adam and natalie

[00:39:25] Good night and good wishes your future is here

[00:39:27] See y'all later

[00:39:29] See ya

[00:39:31] It's kind of dark out. You think