How 'Widow's Bay' Sets Up What's Left and 'Cape Fear' Seeds a Good Series; Plus, 'Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed'

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to Taking It Down, the TV podcast from The Alabama Take. On this week's podcast, it's a good one. We run a little long, perhaps, but it's really good. We are talking about Spider Noir on Amazon, but that's only in non-spoilers. In both sections of this week's podcast, we're going to also talk about Widow's Bay, Cape Fear, and Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed, all of which are on Apple TV.

[00:00:27] I'll get Adam and Donovan to join us, so let's begin the episode. I'll take projection. Hello to Adam and Donovan. They're with me as usual. Donovan's back. Adam's with me. Hello, Blaine.

[00:00:50] All is good in the world. If I may, I want to say hello to a specific listener, one Bo Hicks, who told me this weekend that he listens to us. He seemed to imply most, if not every Tuesday morning on his daily constitutional. All right. I think you mean his walk, but if not, I hope the throne finds you cold. I was surprised I didn't know that one. Old British slang, being the Anglophile that you are. The old Constitutor taking the morning walk. Yeah.

[00:01:20] That sounds like what happens after my coffee. That's what I'm getting at. He's a little longer of a walk. You take the brisk morning walk, yeah. Hey, Bo. If you tell me you listen, I will say your name on air. I guarantee that. So hello to Bo. Hello to 87 Jetta. I know he still listens. Hello to anyone else. I think Tim Hamilton still is a regular listener, so hello to you guys.

[00:01:46] You know, Bo, he's got his finger on the pulse of what we would enjoy. Sometimes he'll text me like he was really into How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. And of course, we were also very into How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. Right on the nose with that one. I think he sent me a very similar text on the same show, as well as Department Q. Yes, which we also were really into. That's right. I remember you said Bo had mentioned that it was good. And it was good. Yeah, very good fodder for our podcast.

[00:02:16] So let's talk about the first of our shows. This one will only stay in non-spoilers. It's the Amazon Prime series Spider Noir. Noir. Noir. Sure. Donovan, you're on this one thanks to being a fan of Nicolas Cage. Yeah, I hate to say it. I love him. Well, he's being pretty Nicolas Cage here. And by hate to say it, I mean I actually... Like, he... I went through a period in my younger years... I almost spit my coffee out. I thought the blame was joking.

[00:02:48] Okay, sorry. I went through a period in my younger years where I'm like, he's just so hammy. And you know what? He's not good in everything. But he always shows up. He was 110%. And there's stuff... Like, if you watch him in, like, Herzog's Bad Lieutenant, New Orleans, great. Mandy, great. Even, like, a movie that I think would be way less successful, Long Legs, if it didn't have Nicolas Cage freaking out. And it's like 10 minutes of... It's great.

[00:03:15] Even, like, kind of a bad movie, like Renfield is funny because he's playing Dracula in this really weird way. Uh-huh. Of course, we, you know, this guy goes all the... This guy goes all the way back to high in Raising Arizona. He's a legend. I think I'm in the camp that he probably peaked with H.I. in Raising Arizona. I mean, that was a really good performance.

[00:03:36] Like, the good thing about Cage is, like, you can enjoy him, what he's doing, and also at the same time acknowledge that, like, that bees bit in the Wicker Man remake is really fucking funny. Mandy was such a good movie. Mandy was awesome, right? I still think about it sometimes. It wouldn't have worked if it wasn't Nicolas Cage. Yeah. Between, like, real, like, pathos. Like, there's a bit where he's, like, sobbing in the bathroom, and it just is a heartbreak. But it, like, it keeps bumping over into comedy as well because it's Nicolas Cage.

[00:04:06] It's great. Hmm. Anyway, Nicolas Cage does a Humphrey Bogart impression, and if you don't like that, this show is not for you. That is really about it. But Spider-Noir, of course, the alternative world Spider-Man where this Spider-Man is in the Depression era and a private detective. I think he's just called the Spider for the most part. He's the Spider. It's implied that he's a man. Yeah. It's there. This show is a lot. Yeah, it is.

[00:04:34] It is trying very hard to be a noir and ends up being kind of a flimsy plastic version of noir movies from the era where they were very much in vogue. And not being very much of a Spider-Man show, at least in episode one that I watched. Goes a little bit more. Okay. Which you could probably figure out for this season. I actually thought that, you know, yes, I think some people will be like, this is just a bad photocopy.

[00:05:03] I maybe was in a generous frame of mind because of Nicolas Cage doing a Humphrey Bogart impression. I had the feeling that it's putting its inspirations right on its sleeve. It's not playing coy. Yes. It's nodding to all, you know, Naked City, all this kind of stuff. Yeah. I don't think anyone who watches this is looking for a true noir show, nor are they misunderstanding that it's not truly a Spider-Man from their childhood series. If you watch it in the black and white, it'll make you want to watch some noir.

[00:05:32] For some reason, I still liked it. Yeah. I said all that stuff there, and now I'm going to flip it on its head and say, I liked it, though. I was interested. There wasn't a scene in there where I was like, please hurry. Please go on. Nicolas Cage talking about this and being like, hey, kid, what's going on? Hey, doll. That's pretty good stuff. Did he ever say doll or bra? I can't remember. He's like, he's definitely said kid at one point.

[00:05:59] I did like how it looked, and you're right, Nicolas Cage is watchable here. The action scenes were really cool. I wish there would have had a few more in episode one, but I'm going to continue, and there probably will be plenty. The main villain being Brendan Gleeson, I love any opportunity. He's too good for this. I forgot that he was in it before I watched, and then when he comes on screen, I thought, yeah.

[00:06:21] He's definitely not doing capital A acting in the way that Nicolas Cage is, because he's probably a better actor than Nicolas Cage is. Let's be honest, he is at this point. He's very good in everything, and I've been enjoying him in this. You know, it's got all nightclubs, femme fatales, the classic everyone is a World War I vet with PTSD. Yeah, they're really jamming as many more tropes as I can into.

[00:06:48] Honestly, it's like if they crammed all the tropes from the first season of Perry Mason into one episode. That's true. I love Perry Mason. I'm having fun. Now, I did switch between color and black and white a few times during the episode. So did I. And the color looks pretty good, too. It looks damn good both ways. I had actually, I probably wouldn't have done that, but I had read in the Roger Ebert review, I'm sorry, I can't remember the reviewer, that the production work was great. And you know what?

[00:07:17] It is. They spent the money. And sometimes they're doing stuff that makes it almost look like, you know, obviously they're doing digital camera, but it looks like a little older. It does. Which I really like. And then there are moments where it looks like a comic book come to life, which it pretty much is. The production design work from these guys is great. I'm not standing here to say that this is like great art or anything, but I'm saying that it is lovingly crafted. I'm with you, and I think I will continue this show.

[00:07:45] And in an era where I kind of felt exhausted by the Disney Plus spate of superhero shows, so much so that I'm not sure what would bring me back to it, this had like sort of a whimsy to it. Yeah. That I enjoyed. You said you're not too thrilled with the Disney Plus spate of superhero shows, and I had even completely bailed on the Sony superhero. Well, they only have the Spider-Man rights. They got all the Spider-verse.

[00:08:14] I do not care for anything other than Spider-Man himself. It's good. It's a win for them, I think, at least in my view. A bright spot a la the Spider-Verse films, which are still pretty good. I think kind of stand out for the same reason, doing something different, lovingly crafted. Not trying to compete with Marvel, with Marvel Studios in any way. Yeah. So they're not afraid to take some risks.

[00:08:44] Yeah. I'm kind of excited. I want to carve out some time and finish this show. We'll see. It's probably not going to get the better than it needs to be award this year for me, because that's reserved for Widow's Bay. Speaking of which, what a great segue. Let's go to Widow's Bay. It aired its penultimate episode this week and forges ahead to its finale for its first season. We suspected as much. I think we even talked about it in this manner. But it was officially stated this week that it's going to get a second season. Thank God.

[00:09:13] We thought we would. I don't want to go home. Because it's a long boat ride? They're blaring the storm siren, but I'm still on the beach, baby. Donovan, you know that boat came in a boat. Yes. Got here. I feel it feels like the critical buzz has really like it. We had good initial reviews, but it's really pick. You know, New York Times this week calls it the best and most exciting show of the year so far. Guardian's review.

[00:09:40] Guardian had an initial review, but re-reviewed about how great it is. Like, it's really popping. Deservedly so. This next to last episode, how did you, what did you think of it specifically just by itself? To me, jumped to where I thought we were going to go in the last episode. Yeah. There are plot elements that were left hanging earlier that they're coming back around on. And, you know, I was going to ask, how do you guys feel about news coming out? Like, oh, it's been renewed.

[00:10:09] You know, when they do the previously on segment and it's kind of like the refresher for dummies of like, did you miss the subtle thing in the corner of this painting that you, and it's like kind of winking, like, here's what you need to know. And can kind of spoil the direction of the episode you're about to watch sometimes if you think about it too much. But the, when you find out that it's been renewed, I have different expectations for what's going to happen this week than I might have if I thought it was a standalone season.

[00:10:39] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. This one felt like a done deal anyway. So the knowledge, and like I said, I think we had already kind of even addressed it as if it's going to have a second season. I don't know if it was me and Donovan that did that or the three of us. But the timing of it is definitely like, wink, wink, don't be mad at us. Right. When you don't find everything out this coming week. We're going to give you a cliffhanger, guys, just so you know. Yeah. Which is fine.

[00:11:09] It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. It happens all the time, but it's just a funny practice to me. And you're right. It does change it in the sense that like if there was a cliffhanger at the end, you know, it would be more like Stephen King ending a novel in a cliffhanger than like, which he does sometimes, you know, next season on. Right. They didn't have the series finished. I don't know if they, when this announcement was made. I don't know. Or excuse me.

[00:11:36] They did have the season finished when this announcement was made. It was done and wrapped. So I don't know if they knew how much knowledge they have with the, you know, how to make this the finale or in the penultimate episode. So I don't know. That's a good question. Does Katie Dippold have a sense that, yeah, I'm going to get another season of this. I can kind of write the finale as I. It's interesting to read showrunners.

[00:12:04] Not that I read a ton of them, but to your question, Blaine, just like, because like, it does seem like a lot of times even up to the end, they're like, I'm not sure what's going to happen. Yeah. You know, like, like there's, I've read enough people just getting like blindsided by the network doing something crazy. Right. Or canceling or what, you know, what? Whatever. Yeah. So I do want, that's a good question. It is a good question. Both of the, yeah. What Adam brought up to. Did it color how you watched the penultimate episode?

[00:12:33] It's, it's coloring the buildup to the finale for me. Yeah. Which is fine. You know, it's just TV. This show at this point has done, you know, the plot is, I like the plot. The plot is engaging, but it's honestly, it's secondary to the characters reacting to the plot at this point. And, or, you know, the characters responding to the circumstances and things that happen. So with that, you know, I'm like, I'm, I'm, it, it's in a really good place where you're, you're wanting to see what the characters do next.

[00:13:01] So even if there's like a crazy twist or something, I think it's, it's kind of elevated itself above that for me. Yeah. And they've, they've done enough with the twists and turns and kept it, which transportation allegory do you want to use here? Are they landing a plane or are they keeping it on the tracks? You know, I suppose right now they're keeping it on the tracks. They're docking the boat. Right. They're docking the boat. The ferry, docking the ferry safely, unloading the cars. You know, I'm with Donovan.

[00:13:30] I trust whatever's coming. This has been, this has been done with a, with a deft hand. I was, you know, and looking back, I think I, some of the initial trepidation I had for the first couple episodes was like, is this going to go off the rail rails? And now having seen how good they've done, it's making me remember episode one, episode two a lot. Like it's raised my estimation of them because they're obviously all of a piece of a piece.

[00:13:59] It also definitely feels, have y'all seen the news came out that this was originally the kernel of the idea came from a spec script that Katie Dippold wrote for, to secure a job on Parks and Rec, which is very funny. That's funny. It just came out in the last couple of days that, because there have been some ties to Parks and Rec. Obviously we knew that she worked on it and I don't know, that gives you more, more confidence

[00:14:27] or it does me that we know it's, it's going to be okay. Props to, um, obviously her, her work in Parks and Rec probably helps inform this. Although obviously she's, she's good on her own, but just, she just has such a strong sense of place. Yeah. With this show. And it's like really, really, really good. It is funny to, to compare the two, you know, obviously maybe, maybe she arrived at the idea

[00:14:55] of what if there were these, there would have been a lot more jokes in that version of the show, but horror elements creeping into the Pawnee Parks and Recreation department is a funny sentence to say out loud. So like, if you take it from there and let it stew for a few years and it becomes this, there's also, have y'all seen the picture that makes the rounds of her at a Halloween party? No. Katie Dippold. I don't think so.

[00:15:21] It's one of her tweets from years and years ago and she's dressed as the Babadook, but she's, she says when you think you're going to a costume party, but it's actually adults get together and drink wine party. And she's the only one in costume and everyone else is just sipping from their wine glass. So everything I find out about her, I'm like this, I like this person. All tracks. Yeah. I do follow her on Instagram, but I haven't seen those old ones.

[00:15:47] We'll discuss another Apple, actually the next two are Apple TV series. So a boon for them. They're really putting out television. They're churning it out. We'll decide if it's good or not very soon. So let's discuss the first. I don't think we'll get into any of the second episode of Cape Fear this week, but this will also be in spoilers for the first episode, but now non-spoilers.

[00:16:12] It's Apple TV's remake of the famous two movies as well as the book The Executioners. Both of those movies are based on. Plane. I'm sorry. It is a remake of the classic Simpsons episode starring Sideshow Bob. Do you not know this? Well, there's that too, right? Donovan, I asked Adam last week, but have you watched or read any of those previous incarnations? No, I actually never have. Everything I know about it is based on the Simpsons episode starring Sideshow Bob.

[00:16:42] I think that was Adam last week. I know the premise. I have just, that's one of the films that has passed me by. Sure. Such a relief to know that I'm not alone in that. Yeah. Like, there's no reason that I haven't watched it. Like, I love Martin Scorsese. I just have not watched it. Well, when you've seen The Simpsons. Exactly. This is the same reason I'm never reading any Greek mythology. Simpsons did an episode. I'm good.

[00:17:07] My favorite version of this is on Mad Men where they had Ted Shaw call Don Draper after the letter. Y'all remember this story? And the actor, they were like, you need to, you call him and it's a prank. You're playing Senator Kennedy and you're trolling Don Draper saying like, we really appreciate this letter, this anti-smoking thing. And he didn't know what Kennedy sounded like well enough. And they were like, well, just do Mayor Quimby. So that's what he did on the show.

[00:17:36] He didn't even bother to go on YouTube and watch a speech or something. They're like, oh, you got Quimby, you got it. That's hilarious. The Simpsons saves us all. This is the reason I feel no need to see Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey this summer. I saw the Simpsons episode. Homer's Odyssey. I loved that car. It's right before The Simpsons to do an Odyssey episode. Cape Fear was Scorsese's movie after Goodfellas. Yes.

[00:18:05] I was looking this up earlier and I thought it was before Goodfellas. No, it was right after and it was kind of his way of saying, I can do big blockbuster too. Which Goodfellas was very popular. I remember it being extremely popular once it hit VHS. Everyone rented it. So I think it was popular in theaters, if my memory is serving.

[00:18:28] And then Cape Fear was popular to us at my age because we were 14, 15, 16 year old boys who were just like, yeah, scare us to death. What do you got? Robert De Niro, let's do it. We loved it. I remember loving it. But it also had some seriousness to its acting. I don't know about the story itself and the way that Scorsese presented it, but the acting had some heft for sure. So we all watched the first episode.

[00:18:58] What did you guys think here in non-spoilers? Thumbs up. Made some odd choices, but I think occasionally some odd choices, especially with Leg. It's doing some stuff with color negatives that I'm not 100% there for. That's from Scorsese's. Is it? Okay. See, I didn't know. I'm not so sure if it's not from the 62 version as well. I was honestly finishing with this episode and just being like, maybe I'm just a rube.

[00:19:27] Maybe I just pick up on atmosphere. But I was enjoying it. And then, I mean, guys, Javier Bardem is a legend for a reason. I think I would agree with Donovan. Thumbs up. Atmosphere was vibey. You know? Yes. There's things happening. It does, even not having seen the original two, it is like playing in a cinematic landscape that feels familiar. Yes. You know?

[00:19:56] Like, oh, this vibe has been referenced so many times in American moving images. I will say, it has the unfortunate timing of being on our show today between Widow's Bay and the next show we're going to talk about, which immediately hooked me. And Widow's Bay is, to me, or sorry, Cape Fear, is much more of a slow burn if it's going to hit. For sure.

[00:20:23] I wasn't just, the other two bowled me over immediately and this did not in the same way. I did fine. I agree with you that it's a slow burn, although I appreciate a slow burn. Like, sometimes you're watching it and you're like, get to the good part. This, I was okay with it kind of building up. And it probably helps that I haven't seen the movies, frankly, so some of this stuff is new to me. Yeah, the slow reveal of information was good. Amy Adams is always excellent. Yeah. Amy Adams is great.

[00:20:51] I'm not 100% with the accent she's doing, but. No. No. I've heard worse. I've heard worse. She's not quite as bad as it could be, but no. But also, did she have to? Right. It's like, people in Savannah talk normal. Patrick Wilson is doing fine work as well. He's kind of, so far in this series, he just is there to kind of be a stiff in a suit. Exactly. But he's good at that.

[00:21:20] If you're going to need someone to be a stiff in a suit, Patrick Wilson. Right. That's who you want. Now, see, I think I had a little bit of a heightened reaction than you guys did with that first episode. I thought it was grippy. As soon as I saw the camera lens that they were doing from the 92 version and the 60, I said 92, I don't think that's quite right. 94 version and the 62 version. I think it's in that one as well.

[00:21:47] As soon as I saw that, I thought, the classic teenage, let's go. I'm in. Okay. I remember this now. And it's been 30 years, so I'm ready to revisit. And I thought it just did some things that kept me in its grasp the whole 55 minutes. I was pretty interested the whole time. I'm trying to think if I, I don't think I can elaborate on that in non-spoiler. Sure. I feel like it did.

[00:22:15] And frankly, you know, it's clearly smart enough to be like, put your good actors at the center. Oh, yeah. Let them act, you know? Like, it doesn't have to be, I mean, I assume the temptation with making something like this is just, you know, you know your plot's going to be crazy. So just like soap operating it, you know, dropping the bomb all the time to try and keep people interested, which I don't think that this did. And that is a compliment, not a negative. It had all the elements I would enjoy.

[00:22:46] Savannah in the summer, actors. If you're going to go crazy, go crazy. You know, if your big stuff's supposed to be crazy, make them crazy. Yeah. Upsetting, upsetting lack of Kelsey Grammer, but Simpsons purists can't have everything they want, I guess. It's almost got a doll. A series we promised we'd get around to at some point is Apple TV's Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed. It's aired, I think, five episodes now on the streamer, but we're only really going to talk about it the first couple.

[00:23:15] And we're non-spoilers anyway. This is the one that stars Tatiana Maslany as a divorcee with a child. And she seems to be privy to a crime. That's in the first few minutes. Her ex-husband's played by the affable Jake Johnson. I gave my overview of the series a couple weeks ago. So I think I will let you guys tell me, where do you stand after two episodes? Am I right on the number? Two for us, yeah. Two for you. Oh, yeah. Two for me, too. Yes. Okay.

[00:23:44] I've seen them all that have dropped. I've seen all five, but that's good, too. So where are you? Well, Adam's already alluded to it. He was much more invested in this one than even Cape Fear. I don't know if Tatiana Maslany can do any wrong. If she has, I have not seen it. Yeah, she's good here. She's so good. And this, so much, even in the first episode, is asked of her.

[00:24:14] You were presented with a fully formed character, rounded person, kind of put in a series of different environments where you're asked to empathize with her in some way, I think. And she knocks it out of the park in every single one. And even at times, you're like, what are you doing? You're still, if not rooting for her, then you understand maybe what she's going through.

[00:24:41] And there's a bit of a nightmarish quality to some of it, but also just a middle of life trying to figure it out and make it work thing. And it's just doing a lot really well. And we got to the end of the first episode only intending to, you know, we'd sat down with our food in the evening and like, well, let's catch an episode of this. And I looked at Natalie and I was like, I have to watch another one right now. That doesn't happen a lot.

[00:25:10] So yeah, that's, I'm fully on board. This is another one where honestly, like if I had an upfront criticism of it, it's that Maslany is a lot better than a lot of her people she's sharing scenes with. Like she just outshines, you know, she's pretty, I like Jake Johnson. I actually like the inner, some of the focal reaction, but I'll agree with you. She's great to the point where like, I think some of the other actors almost can't keep up with her.

[00:25:39] It's a tight performance from her. You can tell she's playing this character off the history she's been told or has cooked up herself. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but you can see that. Uh, it's, I don't know if it's a great series, but I, I think it's elevated from a mystery show due to some of the writing and by doling out answers and then bringing up more questions each episode.

[00:26:07] I do think that like the print, but like the pickle in the puzzle, uh, is kind of interesting too, where, you know, like what, you know, it's, it's also something that like she's could be, is kind of ashamed of, right? Like she has to admit like, yeah, it was, it was a sex thing. I like, I think that's kind of an interesting, like wrinkle that she's working through. I agree. We will hold off on a little bit more and spoilers. And in fact, we'll take our break here for spoilers.

[00:26:35] So about 30 seconds and we'll be back. Many interviews can ramble or maybe the host asked the same questions you've all heard answered. Not with short takes, not only the short takes have the guests you want to know more about, but also the summer series manages to go in depth with just four questions.

[00:27:01] Back again this summer, short takes will air new episodes each Friday on the YouTube channel for the Alabama take. Click the link in the show notes to subscribe to the YouTube channel and you'll know exactly when each episode of short takes premieres. Okay. Yes, indeed. Go to our YouTube channel. That's what, that's the ad you heard. We're back in the same order we went except that no spot or no, we will, might table it or just let it rest in non-spoilers.

[00:27:31] We're going to go in the order we did. Widow's Bay aired its penultimate episode as we mentioned. Storms hitting the island. Wick, Mayor Tom and Patricia are faced with gathering townspeople in City Hall basement shelter while also determining, with the help of Rosemary, the lineage of Richard Warren and what action that should propel. It's a greater good episode. You know, what are you willing to do for the greater good, especially if you're not sure it'll even work at all?

[00:27:59] I think that's a big point. That, and I haven't seen a lot of critics make, but it might not work. Your plan. Yeah, they don't know. This isn't guaranteed. You know, it's an episode where the question is, do you want to take the high road or the lowest of lows? I'm definitely biased towards liking Matthew Rhys' acting, but I think that the combination of him, like, being really genuinely scared about that storm

[00:28:27] for, like, everything has built up at him to the point where he's, and he can't break his son's heart again. That's a good battle. Shaman coming back was fun, too. Very briefly. Maybe he was placed gently back down on the ground. I have to say, too, just something that made me laugh is I've had, it's not, many of us probably know people who are really into genealogy. It's definitely a vice of librarians.

[00:28:57] And that bit where she has to go through the whole family tree, so accurate. That was 100%, I was cracking up the whole time, because that's exactly, like, what talking with someone who's really into genealogy is like. It was hilarious. That scene is, so I've got a, I'll shout out, there's another podcast that I listened to their episode on Widow's Bay earlier today. The DVR Podcast Network's Widow's Bay show. Yeah.

[00:29:25] And one of the guys actually ran a timer on a rewatch to see how much of this, the penultimate episode of a beloved television show with only so much airtime devoted to Rosemary with her overhead projector. Six minutes. I thought it was hilarious that they actually went and did it. Yeah. I thought it was so, it made me laugh the whole time. Well, that's what her character would do, you know? Exactly. Oh, absolutely.

[00:29:53] Don't try to fill something in where she's not going to do that anyway. And somebody else on the show said, do you think that they let Dale Dickey read the script for this episode as, like, a sales pitch? Like, come play this character? Because this is, this has given somebody a bunch to chew up, a bunch of ground. And it was, you know, in a way, it's not, it's like the note-keeping version of the payoff that we've been wanting. But the question has been for, like, half a season now, who's the descendant? Yeah.

[00:30:23] It was delivery, in a way, of this anticipated information, along with being, like, kind of biblical, in a way. Like, it reminded me of, like, the opening of, you know, like, the New Testament. It's like, and this person, we got this person, and you have this whole mythos set up. I don't think the Bible says dead, dead, lesbian, dead. Lesbian. It's funnier than you think it is, but no, I don't think that they go that far.

[00:30:52] But when her physical comedy, well, physical comedy left and right in this episode, but when she stops and shrugs, and is like, I guess I don't know anything. Yes. Or when she. So good. Tom says that's not a saying. Yeah. I can't say lesbian now. It's like, can you just not say it like that? The repeat of her saying lesbian in that way, and then, you know, like, that was hilarious. But it sets up the next joke to knock you out of your chair, where she says, all retards. Yeah.

[00:31:22] And it's like, oh. And then the whole room goes, ah. Yes. You know, this is another show that I think really lovingly wears its inspirations on its sleeve. And I did love that there's that, you know, kind of in H.P. Lovecraft and the descendants of H.P. Lovecraft, like these New England families with kind of bad or cursed bloodlines, right? Like, all of the, so I loved it. And I suppose you guys noted all the females were disparaged. There was, what was it, Unfaithful Hortense?

[00:31:53] Yeah. Or whatever. They all had nicknames, but the men didn't. Well, she, I guess she was praising him, but she called, I guess, the grandson. They said, oh, this guy, he was a stud. Not five in blanks. It was so good. And said a few got after it like bunnies, and I don't know that she was praising them. The other funny bit, Tom looks over at Patricia and kind of gives her the nod to turn that little fan on. Oh, yeah.

[00:32:23] Like, they've been through this song and dance before. It's like she's smoking inside again. Please turn on the fan. They've argued about she can't hear herself if you turn the fan on, but we have to try anyway. That's so good. Well, that's a great observation because this cast is so tight with stuff like that. Not that that fan was hindering anyone. She wants it off.

[00:32:44] Even using, this is like the third time that I brought this up, but the world building of, I do think there are time things happening that are worth thinking about what they're doing in the big picture. But, like, there's no cell phones. You know, like, why is she using an overhead projector? Yeah. That's how I learned to do my multiplication tables in 1990-whatever. Like, what year are we in? Yeah.

[00:33:08] The episode attempts to build towards a finale while filling in some blanks here and there. I think it may be offering some new information as well. It sets up the finale's pretty disturbing conundrum. We're very much in the three primary characters' shoes on what to do, especially Tom's. Yeah. And really, I suppose that Patricia and Wick become the good angel, bad angel.

[00:33:34] So, Wick going, like, right in the back of the head, she'll never feel, like, his whole pitch for it was cracking up. And admitting he would have done it himself. Yeah. I'd have done it himself. The. Tom is the ego to the superego in it there. There you go. Yeah. When it's also, it has to mirror Warren's initial compromise, right? Yes.

[00:33:58] Because I don't know that he was, he was maybe a difficult man when he began populating the island, but I'm not sure he went out there to, like, have to make a pact with malevolent supernatural forces. You know? And so, being given this, this is like the classic philosophy 101, do you throw the switch to save? Yeah. This one person. But I also, they're always finding out new information. They may not have it right. Right. You know what I mean?

[00:34:26] Like, we're led to believe that Ruth is going to end up being possibly in some way the big bad. But, like we've been saying for weeks, they've been there 300 years. How is there only one descendant from this guy who was, I mean, we know the only one daughter made it back, but still. Lesbians. Oh, that'll do it. But Ruth being the last boss standing, the last bad, is funny because in terms of horror, she's the least frightening person.

[00:34:56] Unless we find out what she's been doing by leaving every day at 3 p.m. That's true. It also could lower the dramatic stakes some. How much do you care about Ruth without knowing anything about her? And that's probably balanced by the disturbing prospect of having to hurt an old lady. But I still just think there are people, I mean, Tom constantly withholds information. And Wick also doesn't tell the story about being attacked by the sea monster until they're out at sea.

[00:35:26] You know what I mean? Like, maybe this would have been good to share with the audience earlier on when you were trying to convince them that supernatural things happen on the island. So, I feel like there's still more to come. And it's still really hard for me not to think that Tom's son is somehow involved in this. Hilarious Tom trying to reach Garrett and trying to get a piece of machinery from him. That was a good gag. I thought it was super funny Donovan mentioned that Shaman Todd still calls.

[00:35:56] He calls Tom Wick and then gets... For some reason, he has to have these socks. I didn't... I think that's just a joke. Yeah, he probably only has two pair. That puts a lot of pressure on the ones he's got on if he leaves those in the parking lot. Exactly. That was hilarious. One of the best bits of the lighthouse thing was when Jeff Hiller's character is in the background. Walking through and unaware that he's being looked at with the binoculars or that the walkie-talkie's there.

[00:36:26] He says, hey, hey, get him. And you just see Jeff Hiller looking around the room like, what is happening right now? It's a good laugh that lasts exactly two seconds of screenplay perfectly done. This is another thing I just would love to compliment the show on is even folks like... Jeff Hiller doesn't have a huge rig role, but he's used so well that you just like... Every character has the thing that makes you like... Something like that where they're like, yeah, that's funny. That's exactly what he would do.

[00:36:55] Well, and we haven't even talked about the painting falling on Tom at the beginning. Oh my God, that was great. The pure physical comedy of that and Rosemary saying, stand back, I'm gonna hand... And then she yells my sciatica. And then Jeff Hiller runs forward and says, Rosemary. Just completely unconcerned for Tom. Oh, so good. I was pretty disturbed Shaman Todd got killed or seemingly. I hope he does land softly somewhere. He's just gonna be in the water. I know it took six minutes of screen time, but I could have listened to...

[00:37:24] I'm not upset about that. I could have listened to Rosemary go through that lineage as many times as she wanted. Absolutely. I'm not making any deliberate connections here. Or maybe I am by bringing it up. But there sure is a lot of digging through files in order to show how badly some men are in this episode. Despite their more nice nicknames in comparison to the women. A lot of the bad still revolves around women being treated unfairly. What has Bayes pointed this idea thus far?

[00:37:53] That if the past is so wrapped in everything that takes place now, it's practically part of the soil. It's detangling that's going to be impossible. And you're gonna have to make some sacrifices to make it fixed. I don't want to sound too pretentious, but I really think what you just nailed there, Blaine. Is it's making such effective use of the horror and especially the gothic tradition. Yeah.

[00:38:23] In the same way that there's a reason... I'm not saying this is the same thing, but there's a reason that many of Faulkner's novels are basically about that same thing. You have stuff like As I Lay Dying where the past and present are so mixed up. You, the reader, almost can't tell where you are, which one it is. Yeah. This is the second time we've talked Faulkner in relation to the show, isn't it? Yes, it is.

[00:38:46] You made a line between this show and Faulkner and a line between this show and American history as what it is. Yes. Questions of original sin. Can you ever outrun whatever compromise you made to exist on this hard landscape? Yeah.

[00:39:35] removing a piece of this one family tree? You know, like, does Ruth really encapsulate all that's wrong with the island or... Sure. You know, and they even questioned how much does Tom... Again, he's... Early on, he's denying that anything weird ever goes on. But then you find out he knows perfectly well just how weird the island is. And I still can't get over the fact that he...

[00:40:03] It's quick, but he ran unopposed. That's why he's mayor, right? Yeah. And mayor is really not what he is. He's like lord protector, right? So like, has he already in some way already made the deal to continue this relationship with whatever malevolence is there? Yeah. I know we're kind of getting into like Reddit theorizing here, which is not the point of our show most of the time.

[00:40:29] But I think, especially with a penultimate episode like this, they're really just like have set this table for us to wonder aloud what they're trying to do and say. Yeah, and I think the stuff you bring up with Loft fits thematically. Like, you are supposed to ask these questions. You know, even to the point of like, okay, is his deal with the devil like getting people on this island? You know, like... Yeah. To turn... You know, like, has he... Is that his deal?

[00:40:53] Well, like an early theory was if he finds out that he does have to continue feeding whatever this is, do you like call the state of Massachusetts or whatever state they're a part of and say like, hey, so Death Row, tell me about that. Right. Send me some guys. You know, like what... How do you work that? Or... Yeah. You know, if Ruth is dealt with, does the whole island, do they just abandon ship? Yep.

[00:41:22] Finding Thomas Jefferson's great-great-great-grandson and jailing him doesn't fix the fact that Jefferson had slaves. Yeah. That's right. Let's begin our thoughts on Cape Fear in spoilers this time. Apple TV series got Amy Adams and Patrick Wilson as Anna and Tom Bowden. Two lawyers who had a hand in Javier Bardem's Max Cady Gittin, excuse me, going to prison for 14 years. And he's now out.

[00:41:51] It's basically the same story of the previous two films, but it's modernized. Given a few more characters than previously, it's a smart move. You've got to do something like that if changing this from two hours to ten hours. So you get more depth, hopefully, to some of these people as well as more people to interact with to show who they are. Points for authenticity beyond Amy Adams' accent.

[00:42:22] And Leopold's, do you see the t-shirt he was wearing? It is a famous ice cream joint in Savannah, one of my favorites. Savannah is a spooky town. It works well for a setting. I cannot remember if the others were in Savannah. So apologies for my memory. That's probably easy to find, and I forgot to look that up. I thought the score it's taken from the other two movies, it's so arresting.

[00:42:51] It is so scary. The entire thing plays like a slasher horror film that's entwined with some southern gothic. And I thought the first episode did really well with all those elements. I will say, if you give me a shot of someone walking under, like, spreading trees with Spanish moss coming down, like, this boy's a sucker. Yeah, me too. I like Savannah.

[00:43:16] I've vacationed there a few times, and it's, there's some unspoken danger there. I was worried that Javier Bardem wouldn't have maybe the pizzazz or the terrifying presence, or both. But he's got both. He's a legend for a reason. De Niro had both. But as soon as Bardem opened his mouth to give the speech at the fundraiser, all my doubts were flushed.

[00:43:45] I knew he had scary charisma. It's so cool seeing him do, or I thought it was cool seeing him do this, you know, since obviously, like, one of his most famous roles is Anton Chigurh, another really bad guy. But this character is nothing like Anton Chigurh, which is great. I mean, seeing the range that he's able to do with the menace in a completely different way. Anton Chigurh wasn't charming. No.

[00:44:14] Max Cadius might charm you. He's got that little twinkle in his eye. Indeed. Were you going to comment on Max Cadius and Javier Bardem, Adam? Both the performance, the character, the writing, and that environment. There were moments where I was thinking, this isn't a supernatural story. I'm like 99% sure. Because he's so, again, almost like that force of Widow's Bay.

[00:44:42] Like, how is he suddenly at this gala? How is he suddenly in their backyard? How is he doing all of this? He will be a formidable opponent, I think, more than a folk horror creation. But it is still so unnerving. I sometimes think it's a shame that there are too many remakes. But this one crackled like a good 90s thriller.

[00:45:10] It's very much a sign that movies like the 91 Cape Fear are now only TV shows. But I'm okay with that. I realize those aren't becoming movies anymore. But if I can still watch them somehow, I guess I'm okay with that. And it may, like you said, this is going to be 10 hours instead of two. Like, they may end up accomplishing things with this that weren't possible in a constrained time limit. Yeah, I am always curious. I don't think I have a good answer for this.

[00:45:39] But just especially when something like a movie is remade as a TV series. It's like, I think the first question in my head is like, okay, why? Me too. And I do think that there is a, like if you're doing something like this, you do at some point have to answer the why. Why 10 hours instead of two hours when Martin Scorsese made a classic that a lot of people love? Did you see any of the why being answered in the first episode at all? Or do you think that's something that's going to have to come later?

[00:46:09] I don't know that it was, and I have to admit I'm at a bit of a disadvantage with not having seen the movie. I think that even not having seen the movie, I can pick up on, okay, this is a filler episode as well as anyone else can. Now, whether it was answered in this one, not for me, but at the same time, I found the first episode propulsive. You know, I was gripped. Same here.

[00:46:36] I assume that part of the reason you do a remake, I assume for the showrunner, like part of the reason you do a remake like this is the challenge. Yeah. Of answering the why. So I'm assuming that everyone involved with this went into that knowing that that is going to be how we're watching it. Yeah. Second time I've said this on our episode today, it's trying to do a lot, but I think this one does a lot well.

[00:47:00] It wants to adhere to and acknowledge the two before, the two movies especially, maybe not so much the novel, but also be its own thing with a longer runtime, more characters, more twists on the narrative, more modernizing, obviously, or just maybe not more, but modernizing. It's also trying to unsettle you and question how much of these people are bad and deserve punishment.

[00:47:26] And I think one of the last things it probably wants to do is look at the American justice system and they keep calling it reform in this first episode, not necessarily prison, not all the time. Reforms. Because people found innocent years later, I think it's going to be a bit of a topic here. And just the justice system or as Max Cady called it, the injustice system.

[00:47:54] I mean, he knew what to say to bring the money in that night, didn't he? Yeah, he did. Again, he's got that charm. I thought that there was a nice little, I think it was smart on his, he clearly knows what's going on, but just like a smart little thing about his character when he's like, reach for your wallets. And then it seems like maybe he doesn't know what a QR code is because he's been in prison for 17 years. Yeah, that was good. A bit jumbled, maybe to call it anything like a success yet, but it's really good with dread.

[00:48:25] I agree with that. I've driven so much of this episode. Like something very primal for many people. Myself, it's like if I have a dream sometimes where I'm being watched or chased by something, I'll have them somewhat regularly. Like that is really upsetting to me. And I feel like this had that element of like being watched, being chased, something following you, something that you can't see, but you know you might need to hide from. That's scary. And the way that they did that with like, it already had that atmosphere.

[00:48:52] And then the family finds out two days after his release that he's out. Yeah. That really, I mean, it's very on the nose, but it's like, oh, that's cashing in on that vibe for sure in a really good way. The opening and the ending scenes bookmark the idea that they're going there. That opening scene especially, it allows you to continually feel, oh God, where are they going to go next?

[00:49:22] If the opening scene is that suicide. Yeah. And then you get to something a little later and think, well, what is possibly going to be worse than that? Or what's going to be on that level? Then the son comes home and you see what's happened to him. Yeah. That is in the first episode, right? I'm trying to dance. That is in the first episode. He's missing his toe. That's how it ends. Exactly. It's so disturbing.

[00:49:48] I thought that the suicide bit too was really good because it shows, it sets up the charm that we see. Right. And that's obviously Katie on the other line. Yeah. That was very, and it was like scary to me. Like, wow. It's horrifying. I mean, not good in the sense that, you know what I mean. Even if this show flounders, which it may, I think it's going to be worth it for the tension.

[00:50:14] The first episode seemed like there was a steady hand, although, as you said, we've got nine more hours to go. But the first episode seemed confident. It felt like there was a plan or a vision. Mm-hmm. I don't know. You know, anything can go off the rails at any time. Yeah. But I felt like it was a good foundation. I'm going to be interested to hear how we end up thinking about the rest of the episodes, too.

[00:50:44] There are three that aired that are available to watch, and we might get around to some of those next week. So, lastly for us, it's Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed. Tatiana Maslany, she's the divorced mom in New York City trying to maintain a life with her daughter, who's currently in custody with her father, Carl, under the custody of him. That's Jake Johnson's character. The problem is she could have very well witnessed a crime in the opening ten minutes.

[00:51:12] We're going to cover the first two episodes here, spoiler-wise. Tent show, I thought. Mm-hmm. Good job of building some tension, having Maslany scuttle here and there. It did a good job of using time to keep you on the edge of your seat. If she's going to make deadlines literally at her job or just make the deadline of getting to work on time. Or soccer practice. Getting to soccer practice. Right, because she's got all this stuff going on.

[00:51:37] She's trying to keep her life together in the background of this show, or maybe not in the background so much. Is she going to get her work finished? Kudos to her for that little clock. I want to know where to get one of those little clocks. You know, when she's sitting at the desk and she's like, I have to work for like 90 minutes or whatever. She's got to focus in. And she sets what it is. And it dips down on time. She doesn't look at anything. She only works during that. I need one of those, but I also need to adhere to it because I wouldn't. Yeah.

[00:52:06] She seemed to be taking it seriously. Adam pointed this out. There's a wave of melancholy and hopelessness with the logistics of Hazel. And if the divorced parent should take on moving, Paula's not keen on picking up her life in New York City and going to Boise? Yeah, somewhere in Idaho, right? It is. There's a little sadness to that.

[00:52:31] So it's not just playing with the emotion of, if it is an emotion, tense tension. But yeah, the day-to-day things like bringing her her soccer shoes, which was roped well into the murderer's plot, I thought. And that murderer is played by the excellent Murray Bartlett. Remember him from The White Lotus? First season? He was the primary guy there. It's funny to see him in a dangerous role.

[00:52:58] What do you make of Paula's nosy co-workers so far? Those guys are assholes. They're a very funny chorus, though, going back and forth. So you were fine with them? Yeah, I think they're funny. Okay. You're talking about the two younger? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, to me, I thought the show lost a little steam when she's in the office and talking to them.

[00:53:24] I liked it because the whole time you're talking about tension, you see her, this iceberg, pushed into this situation where she's only allowed to show the tip to everyone around her. You know what I mean? And so you are able to, in a way that I'm not sure I've seen a TV show do as quickly as this did.

[00:53:45] We're like, you are with her, and even if not all of us believe we've witnessed a murder and then had to go to the office, but everybody brings their personal life in. And I don't know. I found that her having to deal with their little quips very funny because they're just living their little New York life, and she's got some serious shit going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a good point for most of us, right? Our coworkers are the people we spend all day with. Yeah.

[00:54:15] Like, that's, you know. I found the male a little more fleshed out than the female character. Oh, really? I almost felt the opposite. Yeah. I don't have anything to back that up. She kind of felt a generic Gen Z at times. And I thought that he... He just kind of felt like a generic kind of like wise guy, you know? Really? And I felt like he had a backstory. And she... Yeah, Scooby-Doo.

[00:54:39] I will say that later episodes, I found them more engaging and fun. You're talking about acting. Is I don't think I would have gone into this being like, wow, Jake Johnson is a great actor. But of most of the other folks, you know, I kind of said in non-spoilers, I felt like Maslany really outshines a lot of the people she's around. I felt like they actually did a pretty good job of like... I was impressed. I felt like he was keeping up. Mm-hmm. So good casting for him.

[00:55:09] Yeah. I would... It was honestly a surprise because when I saw it was Jake Johnson in this thriller, I was like, I mean, he's a funny... He's a funny guy. Yeah, he is. But I've never really seen him in something really serious. Yeah. And here, I think he's supposed to be slightly doofus as well, which is... Oh, for sure. He's a little doofus. A little kind of affable. Yes. Exactly. Because he's also, you know, he's also, he's letting the lawyers twist the knife, all that kind of stuff. He's going to get what he wants.

[00:55:38] But also seems to be, you know, there are hints when they're talking to each other that she has displayed instability in the past. Yeah. And when, I mean, obviously she's gotten herself into quite a fantastical situation. So like... Yes. You're primed to believe that. And she doesn't like him saying that, but also doesn't really push back that strongly at like a history of that.

[00:56:05] And so to have him almost playing like the straight man of, you know, he's the first person who articulates out loud outside of her, the situation that she's in. And you're like, oh, this is how like an actual adult would deal with what's happening right now. He's just stated the facts of it. And when you say it out loud, it's like, just solve this. Don't be blackmailed by this idiot kid.

[00:56:27] I said a couple of weeks ago when I brought this show up that I was worried Tatiana Maslany was playing this so well that she's revealing her past before the show wants to reveal her past. What's an example of that? I won't spoil. I will say that I was worried that she's acting like a person who could disassociate. Yeah. And is that going to be a part of the narrative? Yeah. The show wants to be a tight, twisty thriller.

[00:56:56] It centers around a modern lady with some serious and sad troubles. We've talked about that. And maybe it does want to convey how intelligent women are dismissed as crazy and over the top. And if that's its goal, I think it's doing a pretty good job with that. It succeeds at being a fairly tight thriller. I think the – I thought the coworkers bogged down some action here and there.

[00:57:21] And I thought that Paula's decisions are sometimes irrational to a point. They are, but I think when you – you know what y'all were talking about of like she's just trying to keep a life together. When you think about all of those stresses, this is not someone – like how often is the person swept up in a thriller?

[00:57:45] Like how often is the person who's just trying to keep a life together? Somebody who maybe didn't have that much else going on.

[00:58:15] You're kind of like, yeah, I could see that happening. And it's – I don't think it's a sign of irrationality necessarily. But obviously I would hope that I would have enough of a governor to not do that. But for a TV character, it's kind of like, yeah, this feels earned in a way. It's funny that you said that because I – that was exactly what I wanted to say. Why in the fact – in as much like I think the stressors and everything actually make that moment very relatable?

[00:58:45] Because like who among us hasn't gotten frustrated or overwhelmed and be like, I'm just taking care of it, you know? That's the one thing that she might can control, right? In all of these things. Exactly. She can take this hockey stick and possibly even hit this kid, but certainly scare the shit out of him. She can't really control a lot with the ex and the kid and all of that and moving. But that dude, you can hit that dude. She's not going to make the police dig deeper, work more hours on this.

[00:59:15] No. Yeah, and I liked that it didn't feel crazy. It didn't feel erratic. Like, you know, somebody dispassionately looking at it might say that maybe that's not the best idea. But based on, like you said, what we already know about what's going on in her life and a little bit of her personality maybe. You know, she's a tough person. Makes sense. It was also, I'm sure we'll get into what she finds when she goes to the house.

[00:59:43] But for her to have been living however many minutes of kind of thriller, it would certainly be hell on earth for like a normal person to suddenly be blackmailed by someone that they, like a sex worker, essentially. Yeah. One of the most embarrassing things that could come out about her, specifically in what she, you know, trying to hold a family together and trying to keep a job, all these things. In that context, for sure. Right.

[01:00:11] But to then go and it's like, you already feel like it's at like a nine. And then all of a sudden there's a bloody dead body in a shower, in a bathtub. It's like, oh, this is now, we've ratcheted things up. This amp does indeed go to 11. Murray Bartlett's performance makes the danger seem pretty real. Yeah. Yeah. His performance gets even better and gets a little more screen time, I'll say.

[01:00:40] I'll tell you what the most horrific thing so far is. Yeah. And through two episodes, landing on that damn tuna can and running away with it hanging out of her arm. That's going to stick in my head for the rest of my life. That was like, she is going to get tetanus. She needs a shot. Ugh. I really like, too, that there is this element, like you said, like being blackmailed with a sex worker, like there's this element of shame and desire where like she's not allowed to be a human being.

[01:01:10] Looking for, you know, anything erotic, especially not if she's paying for it. Like this is something that like she's not allowed to do. And I feel like that's a cool like undercurrent of this where, you know, she's being, it just makes you more sympathetic to her. Because it's like, you are kind of being unfairly true. Like you're, you're, you know, your ex-husband gets to get married to a co-worker and you can't have anything? Or they're going to take your kid away? Her dressing down the new woman was so good.

[01:01:40] I mean, you just felt like one of those rare times where she did not walk away and think, I should have said this. No, she nailed it on the first opportunity. And then what you're saying about the shame thing, I think they did a good job of, with her co-workers, you know, who are younger and you already know like they're going to try to be sex positive in some way. Yes. They still are judging her. You know what I mean? Like the initial thing is judgment. And I mean, you know, sex work is real work, whatever.

[01:02:09] It's still. It was good. I thought it was very good. Yeah. Or they're even like, there is the judgment and there, and there's also the kind of like, they're laughing at like the, like, how could you put yourself in this situation? Right. Which is part of the judgment. Shows are based on choices and having her be a fact checker works well for her being able to uncover some of this stuff. It's not. Yes. Unbelievable.

[01:02:38] But yet she can't quite uncover enough so that Murray Bartlett's character doesn't know a little bit more about her than she does him. Mm. Yeah. And I think what it did a good job of like what you can do dispassionately, not dispassionately, but like she was mad. She's looking at the and what you can do in the spur of the moment are two different things. Mm. Um, that, that worked for me where it's like, yeah, if you're sitting down and figuring stuff out, you can figure it out.

[01:03:07] But if you're running for your life, you might leave those cleats behind. Yeah. No harm done making these episodes about 35 minutes either. It's about the perfect length. For this. Yes. Just cracking along. Yeah. I think it is kind of potato chip TV where like it's, it's just, you know, you, you're like, okay, I could do another one. It may not end up saying anything major, but it has these small moments that are smartly done and relatively, maybe not relatively, but pretty good so far.

[01:03:36] I'm curious about that too, uh, because I think that the fodder is there, but also I don't know if the show wants to. That's true. I don't know. And that's fine. I think that's it for us. I appreciate Adam and Donovan's time as well as yours, the listener for Adam and Donovan. I'm here to tell you if a possible murder has been released, lock your gates to your yard. Everyone have a nice week.