Is 'Shrinking'Good? Thanksgiving with 'Somebody, Somewhere.' More on 'Say Nothing'

Alabama Tape Projection.

Okay, got Donovan and Adam here.

Last week we got into the new FX Hulu show say Nothing, which has to be produced by our own Adam Morrow.

You know, fellows, I don't often listen to our podcast.

I sit through it.

You know, it's been quite a few episodes and I pulled.

Pulled y'all up this week.

And I gotta say, listening to a production that you're a part of, the pressure feels on now because I have seen the consumer side.

And Blaine, you've put together a great product.

One, but two, now, now I'm thinking about, oh, my God, someone else could be listening to this on earbuds right now.

And if so, I'm sorry for whatever I do.

These, these two were great.

Our listenership has grown and thank you all for listeners.

Anyway, for listeners, this series say Nothing Donovan, I did talk about last week.

Adams mentioned that, but we only talked about two episodes.

Now we're in our non spoiler section, so don't.

Don't Run for the hills.

It's Based off the 2018 book by Patrick Radon Keefe about the troubles in Northern Ireland.

It's from creator Josh Zidmer.

Say Nothing's based on the true story of the 70s, 80s and 90s war, if that's what you choose to call it.

I do.

Between the ira, who wished for a united Ireland, and the British, who had control of Northern Ireland.

It's from a set of interviews of IRA members involved, many of whom requested their accounts not be shared until after their deaths.

Donovan, we were close about where these interviews are housed.

They are at Boston College.

Okay, that was another one.

I knew it was somewhere up there.

My main takeaway from listening last week, this is not a spoiler, is that Donovan has been overexposed to the city of Boston and has feelings.

Takes, if you will, in our spoiler.

Section later, we're going to talk about the first five episodes, possibly four.

For sure, maybe five.

But I suspect we're all fans of the show.

We would recommend it as a viewing.

Right.

So that's the part of the podcast we're in right now.

My question is maybe why?

Or if you have a specific segment of people that would enjoy it more or just why do you like it?

You know, Adam's stealing my thunder here, but yeah, if you're from Boston, you'll probably like this show.

It was interesting to hear y'all talk about, who is this for?

And even Blaine.

I noticed you have possibly learned something in the last few weeks.

You called it a war and understood that that was a.

It's a little bit political right to say that, or it certainly would have been then.

I think one thing that occurred to me while watching it and then maybe y'all didn't touch on is how much Donovan alluded to it when he is joking about Boston, but how much the idea of being Irish or Scottish or Scotch Irish, which is its own can of worms.

How much of the American population identifies in some way with these islands or places on the outskirts of the United Kingdom.

And you talked about people who love historical drama or political intrigue.

I think there's like a sense of identity for some people in like, figuring out what happened.

Because, like, y'all, I'm kind of like, well, I know that they don't like each other, but I don't really know why.

And I know that if you go back enough generations, someone.

I would have had an opinion on this because I would have lived somewhere nearby like that.

I think that that is maybe interesting.

And you hate to call an armed conflict quirky, but like, it's such a part of Western civilization in the 20th century.

And my history book, if we had it, it was at the chapters that, like, they ran out of time and glazed over at the end.

It having a wider audience is a good thing.

That's a long answer.

I'm sorry.

This is great.

No, I was bowled over by the fact that I was like, wait, Ireland was a war torn country, or at least Northern Ireland was a war torn country.

You just thought it was Belfast greenery and leprechauns.

Exactly.

I thought it was fine.

Some Guinness.

Had you asked me in 1989 as a kid, you want to go to Belfast?

I would have been like, sure, yeah, let's go.

He's just got to stand the peace wall.

Blaine, of course.

Right.

But I would have still, I wouldn't have known that it was a troublesome area.

I mean, y'all not portrayed in the media.

Y'all joked about not having me here to keep you updated on what Bono was doing at a given time, but it is.

It is insane to think about, say, like the unforgettable fire record being made less than like an hour and a half from the H blocks.

You know, it's all of these things happening in such a tiny place, relatively.

It's just mind boggling not even being that far away.

Like when I was a graduate assistant at Alabama, our Alabama, the University of Alabama, the assistant dean of the graduate school was from England.

He's like, yeah, I remember an IRA bomb going off he's like, I was walking down the street.

Amazing.

Insane.

It's scary.

Yeah.

He's like, if it didn't kill you, it wasn't that big a deal.

It happened all the time.

They weren't usually trying to kill anyone.

The show's really good for anyone who likes tension, intrigue, a little.

There's not quite a lot.

It's.

It's a political intrigue, historical kind of fiction.

They fictionalize, obviously, some of this they have to, but it's the high tension.

And obviously, if you don't know much about Ireland, but you want to, I.

Will say that as I searched around the Internet for reviews and that sort of thing, obviously, I will joke again.

I'm surprised y'all didn't make point of Reddit not being represented here last week.

But in the Northern Ireland subreddit, previous to this show being made, if somebody came in, there were a few threads that said, you know, I am X generations removed from Ireland.

I would love to understand the Troubles and ask for, like, literature, documentary, whatever.

And after this book came out, this was widely recommended.

The source text for this show, that made me feel good.

The opinion seems to be a little split on the program itself, but it seems authenticated in some way.

The source text, at least.

I'm surprised you haven't read it.

Well, it's on the list now.

Gotcha.

Yeah, it does sound good.

To follow up Adam's thing about identity.

I'd completely forgotten this.

Yeah, a lot of this stuff is still very close to the surface.

So much so that, for instance, I have a coworker who's very Italian.

Like, her parents are Italian.

In the city that she grew up, there were Italian kids and there were Irish kids, and they did not like each other.

So she's like, yeah, we'd wear orange on St Patrick's Day.

I was like.

I was like, holy shit.

She's like, we didn't know what it meant.

We just knew it annoyed the Irish kids.

I had a.

That one that's kind of incredible and horrible.

But I had a boss who was from New Jersey and had been adopted.

He was Irish Catholic and been adopted by an Irish Catholic couple.

And they had all these Italian friends.

And he said, oh, there were fights.

Oh, yeah.

Which is not to tip our hand here.

But growing up in Alabama, obviously the idea of whiteness is complex and manipulated and all of these things.

These are little nuances that we didn't really get in rural Alabama.

It's not the same.

Right.

The beginning of our spoiler section will start soon.

But we'll also talk about the fairly popular Apple TV show Shrinking, and almost all of that second season that's aired.

There are seven episodes.

We'll probably discuss six now.

That's helmed by famous TV creator Bill Lawrence.

If.

If you haven't heard his name, you probably have watched his television shows, Ted Lasso or Scrubs.

He also created and had a big hand in producing, I think, Bad Monkey for Apple as well, which we covered here.

Shrinking stars Jason Siegel, Harrison Ford, and Jessica Williams as therapists with plenty of problems of their own to solve.

Jason Siegel's character having a deceased wife who died in a car accident when she was hit by a drunk driver.

More on those plot points later.

But if you've seen any of the series, you know that aspect that's in the opening scene.

My question is as straightforward as it gets.

To begin, is this show good?

I very much enjoyed season one, and I think it came out at a time when I was disappointed with how Ted Lasso was going or had gone.

I'm gonna mix up the exact timeline there, but it felt closer to what I liked about the run of Ted Lasso.

This season has taken.

We're at an odd point to cut it off because I feel like it's drawing a real big circle and trying to bring it home.

And I think it might do it, but I'm kind of Season two.

I haven't been able to decide if it is a little overindulgent or not.

We can compare it to its other programs.

It's funny, you said if you.

If you're not familiar with its creator, Bill Lawrence.

I mean, he was kind of inescapable.

I'm laughing in my head at, like, how much Scrubs me and Donovan watched just as a byproduct of having cable when we were in college because it was just on all the time.

And his.

That brand of humor.

Does it always land for you or do you ever run into, like, okay, quirkiness is quirky.

Time is over.

Let's.

Let's move forward.

It is not a laugh out loud show for me.

It's.

It's a.

It makes me smile or maybe chuckle at best, though that's not to say I don't like it.

Did Ted Lasso make you laugh out loud?

Sometimes.

Every now and again.

A higher lull ratio than shrinking.

Yeah.

My thesis on shrinking this season is that it's enjoyable, but it's.

It may not be a good show.

Mm.

It is enjoyable, except for.

I mean, does it make you Want to engage in class warfare.

Doesn't everything explain why?

Education, class warfare.

We are the working man's podcast.

It kind of does.

Sometimes I do think about that, especially this season, more so than I ever.

Have with shrinking money and comfort and material things are not an issue in the shrinking world.

And they all just look so damn cozy all the time.

You said that.

You can just almost smell them through the tv.

They smell good, you know, they smell good.

They smell great.

And, you know, every hoodie is soft.

Every t shirt costs 75 and their.

Hoodies haven't been washed to hell and back.

They didn't source them at the target.

God, I'd like a sweated shirt like that.

And real quick, while we're still in non spoiler territory, it's about the Apple TV plus movie.

It's been on the streamer for about two weeks, maybe one week.

It's Blitz.

It's a World War II movie, as you may be able to deduce from the name.

Stars the Irish.

Do you want me to say it, Blaine, please.

Saoirse Ronan Saran.

Never get that correct because I see it in writing and my brain will not let me.

Okay.

It's directed by the revered director Steve McQueen, who's known for 12 Years a Slave and widows and a few more things.

Now, Donovan and I haven't seen it, but.

Adam, do you want to add some things in our non spoiler section about Blitz?

Yeah.

Saoirse Ronan is like, almost can't miss, right?

Yeah, she is for you.

I mean, I think she's brilliant and very, very, very talented.

And it's like her making good choices and her elevating the films that she's in.

Yeah, by that I mean, like, if she's in something, I'm probably going to enjoy that film and her performance.

And then if I told you she's in World War II movie, you're all in.

This is literally the selling to me of this trailer.

I don't even know if I watched the trailer.

Somebody just said, saoirse Ronan's in a film about the London Blitz.

Okay.

But it was.

It was good.

It wasn't.

It possibly had some identity issues, couldn't quite decide what kind of film it wanted to be and wavered at times and maybe a few missteps.

Maybe you could have cut a few scenes, I don't know.

But it was a glimpse at maybe thinking about something like Masters of Air that we watched this year, or Band Of Brothers where they're on leave and you kind of see how Civilians are living.

And I don't know if you ever thought, oh, it'd be interesting to see a whole movie series, whatever, about people who are not, like, in the war effort in a League of Their Own kind of way, but, like, are actually getting bombed in that armed conflict in that way.

It was.

I mean, at times it was like a horror film.

I mean, it was really.

Yeah, it was nightmarish in the way that everything that I've ever read about living through the Blitz sounded.

You know, I'm in Death from the Skies at any moment and just going with the stiff upper lip by day in that way.

I think it succeeded in other ways.

I wanted it.

It was like, probably like a C movie that I really thought, with a few changes, could have been solid B.

C from Steve McQueen.

A C movie.

Wow.

I don't know.

But at the same time, it very much stayed with me.

Maybe it's one of those things where, like, things that are just slightly out of focus, in your opinion, bother you that much more than things that are just outright bad.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yes.

It's the little details, right, that get you more almost than the big ones.

And obviously just one man's opinion here, but I do think y'all should watch it.

That would.

If that factors into the overall score, I would recommend it.

And I didn't look at my phone, so two for two there.

There you go.

That's very good for us.

We're gonna take a little break here.

We'll jump into spoilers in about 30 seconds.

Taking it down in our home site, the Alabama Take are thrilled to use descript if you have a podcaster.

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Okay, we are in spoilers.

Anything goes here.

If you anything may.

I swear.

Are you kidding me?

Donovan always works blue.

Check your time steps and chapter.

Whichever one you use.

I know Apple podcasts has little chapter things.

Check those because we're gonna might spoil some things in quick succession here.

Most recent thoughts on Somebody Somewhere the Thanksgiving episode.

Oh, man, what a perfectly timed episode.

How does this show I think I've said it a zillion times, but it's the bitter and the sweet lying side by side.

There's no hope.

But there's all.

I mean, sorry.

It's not that there's no hope.

There is hope.

But I really, really love the way it's engaging with stuff like Brad and Joel moving together.

And it's like, it's a good thing, but it's not 100% uncomplicated.

Like everybody has to make.

And then whatever is causing Joel to cry.

Right.

Is it something with Brad?

Is it kids?

Is it the guy who apologized to him?

You know, there's like, have you not.

Ever cried at the end of Thanksgiving when everyone leaves?

Well, just that emotional.

I cried the next morning when I see the dishes.

Yeah.

Anyway, good.

We all like Iceland, right?

Yes, it is funny, the slow burn of that relationship.

In another, it may feel cliched that they would get together or be seeming to move in that direction, but in this one, they're both so, like, hapless at making it occur that it's endearing and it feels earned in the plot.

And.

And then Brad and Joel, some of the tension has been like, is Joel making a good decision here?

Has he made a good decision?

But then when all of these things come to light, Brad's like, yeah, of course I'll accommodate.

What it ends up being like, the most human wholesome reaction, which was great.

I know we're gonna talk about shrinking and if you have seen the most recent episode, which we're not gonna discuss, but I watched this Thanksgiving somebody somewhere, and then that newest episode of Shrinking back to Back, and this was some heavy lifting from two usually kind of lighthearted, wholesome program.

Somebody somewhere.

That Thanksgiving episode was so good.

It was so good.

Yeah.

Now, what makes it good, it continues with giving you reality but not making you feel overwhelmed with seeing reality.

There's no one scrolling their phone on this show and reading headlines about Trump.

Or anything, though they have, of all people, very much have earned some anxiety.

Yeah, absolutely.

Will Joel and Brad.

Is that going to dissolve?

We'll see how big a thing kids is.

You're definitely rooting for it, right?

Like, Brad seems like a gentle soul.

Joel seems is a gentle soul.

Very much.

You know what I really liked from this episode was like.

And I thought there were bits of this that were very funny.

And I'm really especially liking Trish this season.

Josh is the low key MVP of the cg.

She's so funny.

Her getting wine drunk, like at the Std.

Last episode and then her getting wine drunk.

This episode was great.

But I loved the bit where Sam took the time to say to Joel, like, you have a gift for making people happy.

Because how often do we tell our friends things like that?

But they need to hear it.

That was great.

I thought that was great.

Just that moment and it coming to that moment.

That was great.

Listeners, in case you want a glimpse into us, I feel the three of us are actually kind of good at that.

We could be characters on somebody somewhere.

Not good ones.

Not good.

Yeah.

Wow.

It was just a great episode.

I honestly am not as prepared to talk about this episode as I wish I was, but it stuck with me enough that I can bring out some certain things that happened.

And the main thing is that Joel's crying.

I think that's a point of conversation for many people online.

You know, what did it mean?

Are they bound for a possible divorce or split or maybe a fight?

It's so funny.

Television has trained us in movies, have trained us to expect the big conflict.

They're going to yell and scream at each other in the next episode.

And I'll be honest, I watch this show and every now and again, I'll find myself getting tense and then realize it's not this kind of show.

Just chill out.

They immediately subvert that with the Jules piano reappearing this episode.

Right?

Yeah.

Yes.

You know, when Fred's wife, she badgers Brad almost during Thanksgiving about, you know, over some wine.

She's getting.

She's getting a little wine drunk herself.

And she's badgering him about his two sons who are grown.

Oh, you know, how'd that happen?

How'd that come to be?

We want to hear this story.

And everyone's awkwardly kind of looking to say, maybe we don't.

Maybe we should give him a break on this.

And Brad, again, gently.

No, I'll tell you.

Yeah.

That was so good.

And I kept thinking, he, man, this is going to break.

Something's going to break here.

No, it does not.

One interesting callback I'd like to make that when Joel and Brad go to their devotional group.

Yeah, good, too.

It was really good.

And even the book that they were reading is.

I know.

The book that they're practicing.

The Prince of God.

Right.

That's what they're going say the title again.

Practicing the Presence of God.

Okay.

Which is a beloved book.

And if you were in, like, the church world, you'd be like, oh, this.

This group has a little depth, you know, like they're.

They're about their business.

But I think that's kind of the beautiful thing about the show.

Right.

That we've talked about a lot is, yes, they're in this red state.

Yes, this is a gay couple going to a space that would have been hostile to them not long ago.

Very recent history.

But here's this Brad guy who's, like, completely grace filled and gentle and able to deal with this incredibly complex.

I mean, that was like a Hemingway short story in a way that he told over the table.

But he does it with such.

He's extending her this compassion that is not necessarily coming his way.

That it shows, like, not only.

Not that like, you have to.

Good people come from religion exclusively, but, like, here's a guy that maybe was not accepted in a world that still gave him a lot and taught him how to deal with these situations.

I don't know.

I just think he's kind of a genius character.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

If something happens to Brad, I'm gonna set myself on fire.

That's why I don't want.

I don't want Joel's meltdown to be about a possible breakup.

I would rather it be more about, whoo, I'm overwhelmed.

That was a big day.

You know, the other side of that is someone who's in a.

What society would call a complex relationship.

Right.

That she's the one badgering him about these details.

Yeah.

It seemed like an unspoken thing that everybody at that table would understand.

Hey, you don't have to dig into somebody's life before you knew them.

There's pain at that table.

You would think.

Well, none of them are with family except for Sam and Trish.

Right.

Yes.

It's a friendsgiving, but they do it on Thanksgiving.

Donovan, I may have said this to our group, and if not, sorry.

Well, maybe.

Maybe I should apologize because you're going to hear it twice.

But I was telling Adam that one of the big differences between a show like shrinking and a show like somebody somewhere can be reduced down to shrinking.

Looks as though they buy their clothes there in Los Angeles, and somebody somewhere, whoever is behind design and costume design for them, nails it because they look as though they stepped out of a 2001 JCPenney cat.

Yeah, perfect.

So she drives that.

You know, she drives that 1994 Ford Ranger.

95 Ford Ranger.

They don't build them like that anymore.

They know they don't.

And that is just spot on.

That's exactly what she would be driving.

And everything about this show, they nail.

Down to the noise of the truck makes.

Yeah, that's exactly what those trucks sound like.

Yeah.

Needs a little tune up.

The setting is so good.

And I love that they're willing to give us something so grounded and then give us ambiguity, too.

You know, I love that.

I love a show that's like, hey, I trust you.

You know, I trust that you're with me.

Mm.

I'll say, too, about this setting and how much they nail it when they walk outside and are having the quiet conversation and Brad is being assaulted by essentially just what has become wine.

At that point, the way that it looked, I was looking up and down that street like, my God, they had nailed that Thanksgiving afternoon long shadow.

I mean, there's no way they didn't shoot that at least this time last year, right?

Yeah.

Or like, maybe you could get away with that through, like, early January.

I don't know.

There were still leaves on the trees.

It was perfect.

It was no perfect.

It was.

I.

There was nothing fake about that.

There was no, like, California mountain hiding in the distance or anything like that.

And it was just.

It's the real deal.

It looks so good.

And it.

I don't know that.

That kind of quiet loneliness of the world on a holiday just.

It was so apparent.

And I.

Yeah, I mean, we've praised some version of this almost every time we talk about the show, but, man.

But no, every episode gives you something else to point out in a detailed form.

Do we want to toot our own horn here?

Do we want to.

I think we should just as a way of saying thanks.

Yeah.

Well, I just think it would be nice to say hello, creator and writer of the show, Paul.

I'll just go by his first name only just to be ambiguous ourselves.

But he reached out to us to say how much he appreciated our thoughts and things about somebody somewhere.

He's.

He's one of the creators and writers for the show.

He and his writing partner are very into what we have said and I think maybe even into what we say about other shows.

So it's very cool to hear from the most important audience.

We could have.

We could have is the person who created it.

I mean, when you're nailing it, you're nailing it, right?

I'll repeat what I said in the.

In the group chat that at a time when maybe we're a bit disillusioned with the idea of the Internet, it.

Was perfect timing because I had gotten so many spam messages.

I was so tired of social media.

And I'll be damned.

I looked at this.

She sends it via Instagram And I thought, okay, this is probably another spam.

And I click on it.

And I was just like, I had to sit down on the bed as I was walking by.

I sat down and then I sent it to you guys.

I was like, wow, this perfect time.

This is what you dream of when you find out about the Internet decades ago, right?

Yes.

Not only has technology advanced enough that they can make the show that they want to make for the budget that they need to make it in and have it look the way that it does and it goes to HBO and then we stream it, which is still like if you just zoom out a little bit, mind boggling that we can do that.

And then three idiots like us get together and talk about it.

And people listen because they're also curious about deep dive into this great art.

And that's just so cool.

It's like the.

And he was incredibly kind.

It's Paul Thuring.

I'll just say it.

He's so kind and just sweet.

Like you would expect someone who created somebody somewhere to be.

So democracy may have failed in other ways this year, but the democratization of the Internet, one shining example there.

Let's do talk about shrinking because I do want to talk about the first six episodes or at least there's a.

There's a chunk of them I want to talk about.

Yes.

Seven of ten, I think are available for season two.

And like I said, my thesis is for this season is that it's quite enjoyable, but it may not be a good show.

It.

It's.

A lot of it is very well done.

It's not to slag on production or anything.

I just think that there's.

I just have some issues with it.

It's.

I'll say this and this, this may sound like a slag, but it.

And maybe it is shrinking.

Would love to be somebody somewhere, but it hues way more closely to Modern Family.

Yeah, that's it.

And I think it's fair, isn't it?

I think when you have a show with an A list producer like that, an A list actors, all of these ingredients being pushed heavily by a company as big as Apple, like, yeah, of course it, it has to air on the side of more pop stuff that makes sense.

It's.

It's struggling to balance its tone.

We're coming out of a show just now talking about somebody somewhere that can manage any tone, it seems.

But shrinking has struggled here.

I think Ted Lasso might be its closest analog for different reasons, all kinds of reasons.

He did a good job of letting viewers know of how serious something's is right here.

Even if it's played for laughs, something about it would stick with you or maybe even get caught in your throat as you were laughing about it in the moment.

But those shifts in shrinking aren't as smooth.

Yeah, I think maybe a closer comparison to me would be Scrubs because of the way, and I think I talked about this a few episodes ago, just the need for there to be an issue every week.

Like on Scrubs, it's easy because you are encountering new patients all the time and new diseases and there's always something to learn.

And you have yet again, a protege very eager for approval and a gruff older guy kind of withholding it.

But it felt more organic on Scrubs because the setup lent itself to that.

Whereas shrinking, it's kind of like you're just throwing issues at this upper middle class collection of neighbors and co workers that doesn't feel authentic.

A couple examples I can think of is so Alice and Lewis.

Alice is the daughter.

Lewis is the man who hit and killed her mom in a drunk driving wreck.

They open up to one another in an incredibly good moment.

Episode five or so, about the midpoint, it's kind of tender.

She forgives him.

It's something her mom would do.

It's very well done and it lasts the perfect amount of time.

To give you the sense that this is vital.

We're gonna do a little bit of a longer scene here.

But then it's still jarring that she's not just hanging with Lewis and Brian in the next episode, but that she's disclosing private information to Lewis.

Considering that she had a bench date with Paul that day, her official therapist, she could have just shown up and talked about it there.

But she blows him off instead, sends Liz.

Totally different story.

And that just felt too sudden.

Yeah, I agree with that.

And there's this idea that Lewis's life is Requiem for a Dream.

Bleak, yet he's cutting up and giggling and almost playing a happier version of Roy Kent again.

And I did not think he was going to be playing that kind of character in this one.

That one scene.

He's too quick to be a cut up.

Is that the problem?

To be cut up?

Too quick to maybe even hang out with them?

I think he would want to hang out with them.

I just don't think that he would.

I don't believe that she would be disclosing her private life yet.

Well, she is also a 17 year old who, you know, may not.

That's what they do Right.

I would assume.

I think the series can be too nonchalant with the actions of its characters.

Sean and his dad is a good example.

So Sean's on rocky terms with his dad.

You know, he's the man who kicked him out of the house when his violence was escalating.

And all it takes is one talk with Jimmy and Paul.

And Sean's dad's in the hospital too.

Make amends.

I get.

It's a comedy.

It's a 30 minute show.

You can't have that drag out over the course of five episodes.

But at the same time, they did keep us waiting for Lewis to come back over the course of four or five episodes.

It's like there are scenes on the cutting room floor or there needs to be some days in between these lightning strike moments.

I think that's maybe what it is, that we're only getting the lightning strikes.

And unlike Scrubs where it's, you know, you're dropping in on important days in their life or that's how it felt.

It wasn't just a day to day.

Whereas shrinking feels a bit more like we're just plodding along through normal weeks in rich person suburbia.

And here's what happens.

Yeah.

The show struggles to show how extreme these characters are, how extreme their problems can be because it's wrapped in comedy.

I think it always has to be cutesy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't realize the depths of Sean's anger, honestly.

Even though it was pretty clear in season one.

I didn't realize how deep it was until it looked as though he might punch Jimmy.

And I was like, oh, I should have seen that maybe in season one because that, you know, you really like this guy.

He's your therapist and you're about to punch him.

That's.

That's very relevatory.

You know, sometimes I think about the great Futurama line where I think it's in the.

Where Faria is trying to write the musical for Leela and it's criticized and they say you can't just have your characters say what they think and feel.

That makes me feel angry.

And I think about that with shrinking.

No.

1.

Not that we're the most Shari group here about how we're.

We're feeling.

We probably.

I certainly skew to the far other end of the spectrum.

But he's just a sherry group of people.

Well, so Alice and Summer may not be the best examples because they're teens and that teens can resolve conflict faster than adults sometimes.

Depending.

But in two episodes with no Screen time together, they go from fighting, hitting each other in the boob to reconciliation.

I just think we need some screen time before we can get there.

I felt that that was, like you said, it's teen stuff.

And I.

It gave me the good chuckle of, like, all the adults being, like, summer's kind of talented with their Diss track on TikTok.

I thought that was good.

Is Gabby a good person?

She doesn't want to help her fledgling sister care for her mom.

And that part's only played for jokes.

It feels.

That feels off too.

Like, shouldn't we be pissed at Gabby?

It's not like she's a character from It's Always Sunny.

She's not like that.

Sort of bad.

But she's also not helping with her mom because she wasn't helped out much when she was young.

What?

It's also her sister, like paying a penance of sorts for being a drug addict.

Okay, that's what I was thinking, but again, I don't like it.

You get this information, but I think it's so small and quick, sometimes you forget it.

And that's maybe on me.

I thought that that was a good doling out of motivation that she.

I would imagine if you're in a situation where you want an addict to change, even after they put in the work, it would be hard to forget who they were.

Especially if it's your little sister, if it's family, if you're.

I think you can love them and be happy for them, but still be like, shit, I had to take care of you and our mom and all of these things.

You're going to put in a little more time and I'm going to live my.

Now that I finally have some freedom, I'm going to live my life.

Because she also came out of that, the terrible marriage.

Right.

Okay.

So, yeah, no, she did.

And he was an addict, too.

Right?

Right.

But I'm.

Some of this is.

I'm here to defend Gabby.

So, yeah, you go.

Who's not?

I mean, I hated even asking the question.

I was really stoked and still of the belief to have Derek play a larger role this season is a good idea.

Deft move by the show, I often think, in season one.

What's up with this guy and his sunshine demeanor?

What's his secret?

And even if he doesn't have a secret, he's still pleasant to have on screen.

Giving him the plot of Liz though, his wife, kissing another man, I guess that's a right move.

But it feels unfortunate because I think Liz is kind of an ass even without having kissed another man.

No, Derek is a saint.

I'm talking about Ted McGinley.

Yeah.

Who?

Famous in the 80s for being a antagonist villain.

Asshole.

But here he's just kind of a rich, retired young guy who's also incredibly.

Kind and has great hair.

Oh, beautiful hair.

That man's hair.

See, the Liz situation is something that I think is a symptom of them just inventing problems.

I'm trying not to spoil anything in the next episode, but obviously people.

People do things, and it's often their actions are not in isolation.

Like, it doesn't just have to do with, like, how she feels about this guy.

It's all these other things in her life.

They mind that in an interesting way.

But it's also like, oh, things are going too good.

We need to throw a wrench in for the sake of story.

Yeah.

I do think they get it right in having her admit in the very same episode, the kiss.

Having admit that to her husband Derek.

It happens in an instant.

And it doesn't belabor that.

You know, this idea that might dislike Liz.

The baby storyline for Brian feels too obvious.

His storyline is too obvious and too boring for this show.

And that feels very modern family.

Mm.

Yeah.

No reason to shit on a comedy for two for its reality, but there's no way in hell an English bulldog's gonna be in an animal shelter.

Sorry.

Like, you.

Like, you paid too much money for that or like, oh, outside of its carefully controlled conditions, it died.

Well, there's also.

We've had English bulldogs before, and my dad decided he didn't want to put up with it, so he would say, does he may want to, you know, buy this puppy?

Sure.

Cheaper amount.

Most people would because it's a little cheaper.

But they want the English bulldog.

Yeah.

I mean, no.

Nobody puts a bulldog in the shelter.

Let's go back to say nothing.

Shift gears here.

All episodes now on Hulu.

We're gonna talk about the first five or six of the nine, I think.

Is it close to where we are?

Four, five or six?

Four.

And then we'll probably end up doing the back half of the series.

They pulled a Netflix here.

Simply dropped them on November 14th for.

Whatever damn reason you guys weren't having it.

I listened.

I heard Yalls opinions.

Not a fan.

Having watched more of it, I think this one could have benefited from week by week too.

That's exactly what I was gonna say.

Week to week's the maneuver for this because I've changed my stance heavily since last Week, which you goddamn better have.

Well, no, no, no.

I, like, I kind of had to be the overly critical guy, I think, last week just to have something a little to say.

You're lucky I didn't climb through my earbuds and just give the old what for.

Well, I was going to say that I changed my stance pretty drastically.

I like the show, don't get me wrong, first two episodes, but I had qualms with it.

And this isn't just because Adam's here today and loves the show thoroughly.

It's.

As the season continues, it stops moving about as much and it really gets focused.

I would be curious how much more I would like it if it was week to week.

I think it'd have more time to sit with stuff, if nothing else, because just, you know, if it was just the way we watch it, right?

It's like, oh, I want to know what happens next.

This was maybe one of the complaints I said earlier that the Northern Ireland subreddit had issues with this, that it.

Was all dropped at once.

No, the issue was kind of what y'all are talking about a bit with the pacing.

Like, I do find myself wanting to hit next episode when one ends.

And they said that based on the book, they had wished that, like, an HBO would pick it up instead and something like a Wire treatment would do really well for the Troubles.

Instead of, like a political intrigue kind of.

You need something where it's like, there are no winners in a way, versus, like, they look pretty cool while they're doing this stuff.

I suspect that's all going to come crashing down at some point.

I mean, it definitely is, but some.

Of these episodes are drastically different than the previous.

And it's odd.

I think sometimes I was sold on the intensity, the political drama, the historical fiction, in that it's a series and not a documentary.

Early it came off as a shotgun approach.

What kept it kind of kept some of the interesting characters on screen less.

You know, I was thinking, okay, well, who's our primary character?

Should I care about?

Dolores, if she's to be the main focus and do I care about her as much?

And then it was this curious method of doling out bits and pieces of Jean's story.

The mother of 10 who's taken away at the middle of night.

That just felt like one more dangling thread.

Although now I'm starting to see how that fits nicely.

But in the first one or two episodes, it was just another thread of, I'm gonna throw all this out here at you.

It is a Lot.

And I think maybe the.

I'll give one interaction with the story of the Troubles that I've had was going to the Imperial War Museum in London and they had this great, almost entire floor exhibit dedicated to the Troubles, which was kind of crazy because the IRA actually bombed the Imperial War Museum at one point.

So you're in a building that has itself been a part of this.

And I thought, okay, I'm finally gonna.

Here's like a toehold to start wrapping my head around this whole thing.

And I go in and the entire exhibit is set up so that you have two sides to every story.

You don't really learn anything except the.

You hate to use the word vibe in this day and age.

But the vibe of the conflict more than like, the actual, like, who, what, when, where.

And I left even more confused, which was.

But having learned a lot, but still being like, profoundly confused about all of the details.

And I wonder if the way this show started isn't an attempt to do the same thing.

Like, here's like a bunch of spaghetti.

We're throwing it at the wall.

Yeah.

It was complex.

It was confusing to the people involved.

Now, let's go ahead with the story.

The last quarter of the second episode, it started improving leaps and bounds.

But that kind of bothers me because I think the worst thing I can say to someone in our day and age with our attention spans dropping like Boeing jets, is, you got to stick around through second episode.

Or.

I just hate being having to say that.

But it does improve by reining in some of these storylines.

I think the best episodes are those where Dollar is.

Again, we're in spoilers.

Dollar has to take Joe to be killed.

Like, that's a singular story.

And she plans and executes some of her other ideas.

Gosh, I think I gotta step on my own toes here.

I almost spoiled some things that you guys haven't seen.

Tell me what happens in episode four so I'll know my.

My line of demarcation episode four is.

Where two of the.

The fellows, one particularly young, are captured by the British and turned.

And then they turn them in.

A great episode because we're kind of focused on those two.

Well, young people.

Yeah.

One very much a kid, one a young man.

Right.

Very similar thing where Dolores has to take those two guys away.

Yeah.

And that's.

Again, the episode is almost singularly focused on that.

And I really can get into it and be swayed by the emotions that are involved.

That's interesting.

And I don't disagree with you.

I thought that those Were really good and they're tight and focused.

But for me, especially the one where Jerry gets killed, it worked really well for me.

Sorry, Joe.

Jerry Adams is very much alive and he's in Ireland, and he is not.

A part of the ira.

He is not a part of the ira.

But when Joe gets killed, that actually kind of worked because it is weaving in and out of all the other things they're doing, right?

Like getting explosives and then like, somebody has shot the guy that they end up executing Joe for.

And you don't kind of know.

And it clicks together.

And then.

Same thing for me, where I felt like the one with the two fellows, it's more focused, but it does.

It is the same thing of kind of keeping me off balance because Dolores is hardly in it.

It focuses on Brendan and the British.

And the Seamus and Beaky.

Seamus and Beaky.

Kevin, right?

Is that his name?

Kevin?

His real name?

Yeah, it focuses more on that.

And so I'm actually okay with it being focused on what it wants to be focused on.

Because all these things are kind of stuck in each other, right?

And you start pulling on one, and they all start.

You pull on all of them.

This may be misapplying the term, but it is a certain form of guerilla warfare, right, where it's like, they're not the British in the palace barracks, right?

They are amongst the folks, the people, and they live their lives amongst the people.

Not that the British don't get out, as we saw with the border guard going to the club.

But you'll notice too, that those episodes three and four, and also you'll see this in five and six, that they are less reliant on the interview process.

And I think that helps.

Marian isn't part of the interviews, at least not yet, which makes leaves me on edge anytime they're.

Any violence happening.

I keep thinking, oh, God, is this why she's not in the interview process?

Sort of annoying thing about it all being dropped at once is that Marian is often mentioned in the little episode descriptions.

And you can see them all at once.

Oh, yeah.

Guess she's still gonna be there for.

You know, whenever the show cooks for me.

When I came to the realization, of course, too late, as I tend to be being ignorant, that it.

In order to touch on a theme within a theme that I think they're trying to do here is you have to keep dollar us at the center of this particular version of the Troubles.

Marian as well, you get this sense that women are able to do things just as even Better than the men in some cases.

They've always made these huge sacrifices that tend to get pushed under the rug or not focused on most cases.

And some of those middle episodes, which we're starting to get into.

Dollars and Marion make these horrific sacrifices that really get really help, you see?

Oh, okay.

I see why that they should be probably front and center.

Thoughts on the dark?

Anthony Boyle's character as Brendan.

Like him, he's so good actor.

The best performance.

He's.

Well, he.

Two things.

He really made me laugh when, like, maybe it's the older guy who says it, but he's like, that'd be our day.

He's like, get up some armed robbery, maybe plant a bomb, then try and get a pint.

Like, what a life.

I thought he was at his best at the episode with the counterintelligence, because.

With Seamus and Kevin having to make those big decisions on his own.

Yeah.

And he's like, he knows they should die, and he's trying to get them back in.

And then when Jerry finally brings him in, he doesn't, like, overact it.

It's just you can see on his face that he's hearing something hard and he's crying a little, and that's it.

That's pretty much all he does.

And it was so good.

He's friendly with these guys.

One's a kid.

And he's also giving them his word.

And he just can't bear to say, okay, I kind of sort of had to lie to you.

Yeah, I thought that was.

He's very fun to watch.

You get the sense that Jerry did it through his intelligence.

As far as smarts is what I mean.

And his ingratiation with some of the older guys.

Absolutely.

He was.

He was clearly, like one of their best operatives.

Gave the opportunity for Rory Kinnear to give that powerful line of, we'll just let them kill themselves.

I like him.

Not the general, I mean, but Rory Kinnear.

I really like what he's doing.

Really interesting to see.

I mean, I guess because this is realistic.

Right.

But the counterintelligence work.

Not to go on like, a long diatribe, but I read a really interesting thing with one of the military prosecutors who got the guys from the USS Cole bombing to talk versus what we did post 9 11.

You don't just punch people.

They have sitting down, drinking tea.

Do you want to see my gut?

Basically, building rapport is how you get people to talk.

And that's what makes him.

Doing that in this makes him seem, like, almost more dangerous because he's smart.

He knows how to get.

He's not going to beat it out of them.

He knows that doesn't work.

He's going to use whatever tactic he needs to.

We're going to end here.

Quite likely.

We'll wrap up our thoughts on say Nothing next week.

It could happen that way.

I'm, like, excited.

Almost feels weird to say about a show like this, but it's well made and I'm interested in talking and thinking about it.

Well, it's wonderful at building its tension and that makes you want to see how it's resolved.

Right.

It is very good.

It is very good.

And I do like how, too, it's playing with that dramatic irony.

Right.

Because we know.

Oh, gosh, I completely forgot her name.

The poor woman at the center of all this.

Dolorous.

And Brendan, we definitely.

Oh, no.

The woman who's taken Jean.

Thanks.

Sorry.

We know that Jean isn't going to make it because we know her body wasn't found until the 2000s.

We know the other two are gonna.

Right.

So it's playing with that.

I like that it's doing that because it's keeping me interested when, in a sense, I already know what's gonna happen.

Right.

Yeah.

Here's the ending.

Stick with us to see how it got there.

Yeah.

Good stuff.

Yeah.

We're gonna end here.

You can follow us on social media.

Reach out, say hello.

Hey.

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And follow the podcast in your favorite app to listen to, such as that.

We'll be out every Tuesday morning.

Morning.

Unless we tell you we're taking a break for a week.

For Adam and Donovan, I'm Blaine and we'll talk to you later.