The episode begins with brief, non-spoiler thoughts on 'Silo' and its most recent season (0:52). Then the three hosts discuss the acclaimed TV series 'Severance' from Apple TV+ and if it can hold all of the mysteries it is creating (5:14). Also in the non-spoiler section, Adam and Blaine praise the very thing that could make 'The Brutalist' a turn-off to a few (10:23).
After the break, the hosts get into spoilers with discussions on the first three episodes of 'Severance' this season (21:05). Then it's all the big, heavy ideas of 'The Brutalist' and a discussion on if it says something about them all (44:59).
To wrap, Blaine complains about how MTV dropped the ball with 'The Challenge: All Stars' and its fifth season (1:12:59).
As always, find more on The Alabama Take, linked here.
To hear more from the podcast ad Seddy Bimco Part Two The Revenge, visit their website in this link.
Hey everyone.
Speaker AI will be talking with Adam and Donovan like usual about two things today.
Speaker AThose two things will be episodes two and three of Severance's second season, now streaming on Apple TV plus.
Speaker AAnd then we will talk about the film the Brutalist, which is generating quite a bit of buzz with Oscars and awards season.
Speaker AWe're a TV and streaming podcast, yes, but just so happens Adam and I saw that movie this week as both of our local theaters were showing it.
Speaker ASo we're throwing that into this week's mix.
Speaker AThough we don't usually cover theatrical releases, if you're new, you'll be happy to know that we dissect every episode by putting generalized thoughts up front.
Speaker AAnd then we take a break.
Speaker AThen we detail more ideas with examples from the shows or movies that could ruin it for people who haven't seen it.
Speaker AIf you're spoiler averse, you can always come back to those back half segments and I encourage you to do that before I get the other two in here.
Speaker AThough, I did get a chance to get caught up on the series Silo, also on Apple tv.
Speaker APlus it's the second season of it that recently wrapped around mid January.
Speaker AThe last time we discussed it on this podcast, Adam was questioning if he took a turn for the worst with its, I think, second or third episode of this season, particularly with the acting choices I think he had problems with from the cast that isn't named Rebecca Ferguson.
Speaker AI'm glad I stuck with it.
Speaker AI found the episodes building very well on top of what had come before.
Speaker AIt never had a particular episode that existed as an episode of television and to itself, but its conceit is great.
Speaker AThe momentum starts rolling.
Speaker AI think the story is fascinating stuff.
Speaker AThe mystery on top of other mysteries worked well because it had this willingness to answer some questions.
Speaker AIt made me enjoy the second season, especially the last three episodes.
Speaker AI'd say the last two or three episodes of this sophomore set was just really good tv.
Speaker ASolid stuff.
Speaker AA little better than your mediocre kind of television.
Speaker AI can recommend it.
Speaker ALet's.
Speaker ALet's get into this week's show though.
Speaker AWe'll talk in this order Severance, what's been shown to us with season two.
Speaker AAnd then the brutalist non spoilers first spoilers After a break, let's begin.
Speaker ALet's get the guys in here, Alabama take projection.
Speaker AI told you they would be with me.
Speaker AHere they are.
Speaker AIt's Adam, it's Donovan and I.
Speaker AI feel like I had a proper intro thought up for you guys and let me just See if I can recall it.
Speaker AListeners love this part.
Speaker AI'm sure they let me just think.
Speaker AWe're back this week as promised to cover Severinson from Apple tv.
Speaker APlus, nothing specific on it yet, though.
Speaker AYou're in the non spoiler part of our podcast.
Speaker AThis show's likely one of Apple's biggest hits, it seems.
Speaker ADefinitely.
Speaker AWhen it's its biggest since TED Lasso, I guess, since Pandemic era Ted Lasso.
Speaker BI'd agree with that.
Speaker BJust like cultural impact.
Speaker AI don't know how they do the numbers, but I think that's.
Speaker AThat something came out recently that basically they admitted to this.
Speaker CThat's hilarious because it's like a brooding existential piece of despair and a golden retriever, you know, like, it makes sense that TED Lasso is massive.
Speaker AIt's two different eras.
Speaker AYou got to think Adam one, you were in pandemic and you're worried just shitless about COVID You needed the golden retriever.
Speaker AFast forward.
Speaker AAnd now everything's great because Trump's president and there are tariffs and you want existentialist despair.
Speaker AI mean, do the math here, dude.
Speaker CThis is true.
Speaker BNow that my fruits and vegetables are more expensive, I finally have the time to relax and wonder what it all.
Speaker AMeans now that I don't have time to eat.
Speaker ADon't have money to eat.
Speaker BExactly.
Speaker BI mean, when you.
Speaker BIf you don't have money to eat, think of how much of your day that frees up how much of your time.
Speaker CThe implication here is that you have stopped paying for food, yet continue to pay Apple for Apple tv.
Speaker AHe's still on that.
Speaker AWell, can we.
Speaker ACan we be honest here?
Speaker ADonovan hits me about church time, which I'm not.
Speaker AI hope I'm not telling tales out of school here.
Speaker ASo he's watching Severance during.
Speaker ADuring church services.
Speaker AI'm willing to bet church starts at 9:30.
Speaker BI was.
Speaker AYou were home.
Speaker BThis was over.
Speaker AYou're home.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AHits me for the password on.
Speaker AOh, yeah, I had to change my password this morning.
Speaker ASomething.
Speaker AI got a weird.
Speaker AIt wasn't super weird, but it was just weird enough.
Speaker AI was like, I better change my password.
Speaker CYou think it was.
Speaker CIt was probably the Canadians opening salvo.
Speaker AYeah, it was probably Donovan.
Speaker ABut then.
Speaker ABut then he messaged me much later, like two or three hours later, and asked for the password.
Speaker AI'm like, oh, yeah, I had to change it.
Speaker CDo we need to go out of our way to make sure that semi athletic Mark Falk continues listening to the program even as tensions escalate between our Two nations.
Speaker AYeah, I want him as a part of our audience.
Speaker CI'm not even sure that we're going to be able to mail the dilly bar.
Speaker BNot, not across international borders.
Speaker BThose tariffs also do.
Speaker BAlso.
Speaker BDo you know how expensive chocolate is now?
Speaker ASeverance, Apple TV plus.
Speaker ANothing specific.
Speaker ANon spoilers.
Speaker BThat's getting harder and harder.
Speaker AWell, I've got a.
Speaker AI've got a lead question.
Speaker BI got a good lead question.
Speaker AYeah, I do.
Speaker AStars Adam Scott, Zack Cherry, Britt Lauer and John Turturro's office mates.
Speaker AOffice employees who've had a surgical procedure that separates their entire consciousness at work from their lives outside of the office to the point where they're completely different people and certainly unaware of what the other aspect of their own lives are doing.
Speaker ANow, we usually in this part we say, do we recommend it?
Speaker AWho's it for?
Speaker AWhat should we say Broadly?
Speaker AWe obviously like the show.
Speaker AHere's my question, though.
Speaker AIt's a general thought question that you can answer without spoilers.
Speaker AHave these last two most recent episodes.
Speaker ASo we're going to probably talk episodes one through three really hardcore.
Speaker AFocus on three later on.
Speaker AHave these last two of season two tamp down your concerns that this was developing into a high dollar?
Speaker AExcellent production of a Reddit thread.
Speaker CI never felt like it was veering into just pure think piece fodder.
Speaker CYou know, it always seemed like kind of above that.
Speaker CAnd I do think that it's now moving at a clip that feels like it's doing its own thing, that it's independent of its.
Speaker CAnd it would be almost impossible for them to be unaware of how obsessed over this has been, especially with as long as it took to get to season two.
Speaker CBut it feels like it's moving pretty organically.
Speaker CTo me.
Speaker CI feel like moving organically is the, the anti Reddit think piece show.
Speaker CRight?
Speaker CLike, it feels kind of natural, but.
Speaker BIt feels like they have like some idea of what they're doing, you know, where they're not just like coming up with stuff, but it's like, oh, this, you know, especially with the way the first two episodes kind of fit together.
Speaker BThere's sort of a, there's sort of two, two halves of a whole.
Speaker BIt's like, oh, okay, they're direct.
Speaker BYou know, we're, they're.
Speaker BThey put some thought into this at least.
Speaker AYeah, I think they have.
Speaker AI think that's the story that they're telling, is that they're telling to the media that they have a lot of this decided upon.
Speaker BI think that's good because I once read an article about the guy who was in charge of keeping the lost Bible together, you know, like the show lore.
Speaker BAnd they showed a picture of it and, you know, it's like a binder.
Speaker BIt's just full of paper because nobody could remember it.
Speaker BThey just kept coming up with things and throwing it in there.
Speaker AMitt Romney's got nothing on this guy.
Speaker ABinders of women.
Speaker BHe's got binders of laws.
Speaker AWasn't it Mitt Romney with the binders of women?
Speaker BBinders full of women.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AThat was a quote for those born recently.
Speaker AAnyway, thanks for listening.
Speaker AFirst of all, I'm with Adam and Donwan.
Speaker AYeah, you both said it.
Speaker AThat it's.
Speaker AYeah, especially what Adam said.
Speaker AI think the pacing, and that's something we'll talk about a little bit later, is that I really was thrilled with the pacing and.
Speaker ABut if I could put it up probably a little bit more specifically without giving anything away, is they're answering questions at a clip.
Speaker AThat makes me happy.
Speaker BIt seems very deliberate, doesn't it, where it's like we're not just teasing out this one thing.
Speaker BI mean, obviously we're still teasing out, but we're also supplying steps along the way.
Speaker AAnd I said something very similar in my intro when I was talking just to the audience that Silo does the same thing on its back half of this season.
Speaker AAnd I was worried it wasn't going to, but it did.
Speaker ANot quite as quick.
Speaker ANot quite as quick.
Speaker ANot quite as in gripping.
Speaker ABut I, I liked, I did like Silo.
Speaker CI thought about those shows in comparison to each other as I was watching Severance have wondered if.
Speaker CBecause the concepts for Silo are really interesting and it's not only the.
Speaker CThe grand concept of something's happened and forced humanity underground and what happens in that context, but Severance we'll get into, they just keep finding little gut punch ways to ask questions about our humanity.
Speaker CBut they, like you're saying they're answering the questions at a really good clip, but also in a way that tells me we're seeing the tip of an iceberg and they know what the whole thing looks like because they're not afraid to answer a question that then creates more questions.
Speaker CYeah, there's always more mystery, you know.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CBut in a good way and not in a kick the can way.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker AYou said it.
Speaker AThat's.
Speaker AI said it in a good way.
Speaker AThat's so much better.
Speaker BAnother thing that I think is encouraging, having seen three episodes of this season and that I think makes Severance pretty Good and worth watching is I think they have a really strong sense of who these characters are carrying over from season one.
Speaker BAnd I think.
Speaker BI think that is a really big plus.
Speaker AMan, that hit me in this third episode where I was like, big time.
Speaker AThese actors know who they're playing.
Speaker BYeah, they do.
Speaker AFully.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker BI.
Speaker BI think that's very, very good.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AIt's not 95 like season one.
Speaker AIt's 99.9 and they're in it and I'm in it.
Speaker AAnd I'm with you.
Speaker AStick with non spoilers.
Speaker AWe make our own rules to break our own rules.
Speaker ALike some sort of uglier, Southern shitty James Dean incarnation.
Speaker ABut a couple of us made it to the movies and not only that, we both saw the brutalist.
Speaker AIf you're not familiar with this film is probably one of the front runners for best picture for Oscars this year.
Speaker AIt doesn't mean it'll win.
Speaker AIt did win Golden Globe for best drama.
Speaker AVery similar category.
Speaker AIt's directed by Brady Corbett.
Speaker AAm I right?
Speaker ABrady or Brody Corbett?
Speaker CIs it Brady, right?
Speaker AI think so.
Speaker AIt stars Adrien Brody as Laszlo Toth, a newly arrived European to the United States right after World War II and his liberation from a concentration camp.
Speaker AAlthough he and his wife are separated in the camps, he keeps in touch with her with letters.
Speaker AIn the meantime, a very rich Philadelphia businessman named Harrison Van Buren and played by Guy Pierce saves him from a life of menial labor once he finds out he's an architect of some renowned from Europe.
Speaker AHis days in Europe.
Speaker AAgain, we're general here, especially because Donovan hasn't seen it.
Speaker AAnd here's the thing, and I said this right before we started.
Speaker ADonovan is not spoiler averse.
Speaker AHe's not too worried about spoilers.
Speaker ABut he's gonna duck out when we start talking about this with specifics because I just think it's.
Speaker AI think everybody should probably do that.
Speaker AWhat I told you you could probably all figure out in any trailer or tagline how did we feel about it in general?
Speaker CI mean, I.
Speaker CI love this movie so much.
Speaker AYou did?
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CAnd I am just going to speak lovingly about it.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CEffusively.
Speaker CAnd just gush about it basically when we get there.
Speaker CThis is my favorite theater going experience in recent memory.
Speaker AThat's.
Speaker AThat's interesting.
Speaker AAnd I'm curious if that had to do with the movie and its plot and its elements or the time commitment you had to give it.
Speaker AOr both.
Speaker CLet me.
Speaker CDid you read the RogerEbert.com review of this?
Speaker AI haven't read any reviews.
Speaker AI've gone, I'm shooting from the hip on my own ideas today.
Speaker BHe just went in blind man.
Speaker AAnd I feel good about it.
Speaker AI feel like I took something away from this movie.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker AYeah, let's roll.
Speaker BGood.
Speaker CI feel like I.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CThe amount of meat on the bone, if you want to use that metaphor on this one, is just.
Speaker CIs endless.
Speaker CIt's doing so many different things and doing it incredibly well.
Speaker CBut actually in this Rogeribir.com review, I grabbed this quote because I thought, Blaine, we're gonna speak generally and I want this to, to go in that, that spot.
Speaker AIt wasn't Matt Zoller shots, by the way.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CBrian Talarico I like, I like him too.
Speaker AMe too.
Speaker AMe too.
Speaker CSo he said some will look at the 215 minute runtime of the Brutalist and bring out that dreaded word when it comes to serious long movies.
Speaker CPretentious.
Speaker COf course it's pretentious.
Speaker CYou couldn't make this movie effectively without pretension.
Speaker CBut one person's pretentiousness is another's ambitious.
Speaker CAnd I wish we had more movies this pretentious, this unapologetic, this willing to do more with film than so many even consider.
Speaker CAnd I think that nails it here.
Speaker BHere, here, here.
Speaker ABrian Talarico says it right there.
Speaker AAmbition is.
Speaker AThat summarizes what I thought.
Speaker AI didn't use that word, but I, I thought that this movie's got so many ideas under the rocks and it does a pretty damn good job of turning over those rocks to view them as closely as it can in.
Speaker ASo it warrants that 3 hour and 35 minute runtime.
Speaker AEven though I'm still of the mindset that movies should be two hours or under.
Speaker CThe thing is, when you walk out of a three and a half hour movie, there is no lukewarm on such an experience like you either loved it or you truly hated it.
Speaker BThat's absolutely true.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AI did appreciate this movie's runtime and I did appreciate being immersed in it.
Speaker AI was ever really bored.
Speaker AI did get a little tired of sitting.
Speaker AThat's a different.
Speaker AThat's not bored.
Speaker AThat was just uncomfort for a second or two.
Speaker AI was, my brain was turned on the whole time.
Speaker AI was, the whole time I was thinking, okay, so what does, what does that have?
Speaker AWhat would that say about this?
Speaker AAnd what is this action, this piece of dialogue?
Speaker ASo it had me.
Speaker CI don't know what more I can add without getting into spoiler specific stuff, but if you're at all thinking about going, don't wait for this to come to streaming.
Speaker CNo, it may seem more convenient to like, oh, I'll watch this at home when I have three and a half hours or whatever.
Speaker CYou need to go sequester yourself in a movie theater in a dark room.
Speaker CWe are not, you know, technically allowed to look at your phone, you know, by our social conventions that I really wish people would stick with, but.
Speaker AOh, did you have a phone looker?
Speaker CNo, no, no, not in this one.
Speaker CI did, but I think you've got to give yourself over to the experience of this movie and to the experience of film.
Speaker CLike, let it, Let it do what it's supposed to do.
Speaker CEnjoy one of these rare moments where things move at the pace that I think we all long for them to move in our daily lives.
Speaker AI'm gonna say something that might be surprising.
Speaker AThis movie was not bloated in runtime.
Speaker AIt was bloated with ideas.
Speaker AI mean, it almost could have used 15 more minutes.
Speaker BWow.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker ABecause so many hefty things going.
Speaker AAnd I was like, no, no, go that, go that route.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker AI'm not saying that they were shallow in any of their decisions.
Speaker AI'm saying that if they would have spent five more minutes on one particular topic, it would have been fine.
Speaker CThey could have done a few things.
Speaker CI don't.
Speaker CI think if where they chose to start and stop the story.
Speaker AYes.
Speaker CIn terms of years covered, the runtime works for me.
Speaker CI think, I think, I mean, I would have taken 15 more minutes.
Speaker CWould have been perfectly fine to me.
Speaker CI think that there's a whole other life that we could, we can get into that.
Speaker CWhen we get into.
Speaker AWhen it comes on streaming, I'm understanding it's going to have a three day runtime.
Speaker BYou watch three days straight?
Speaker CYeah, sounds great.
Speaker ALike 72 Hour Movie.
Speaker ANo, I think if that sounds like I'm being negative, I really liked it.
Speaker CIf I could find the time this week and could find someone willing to give, I would go see it again.
Speaker AThat's interesting.
Speaker AI wanted you to bring that up.
Speaker AI don't think I would see it again.
Speaker AI think I got what I needed from it.
Speaker ABut I would watch scenes of it many times over.
Speaker AWhy do, why do you want to see the whole thing again?
Speaker AI'm just curious.
Speaker AIs there something you feel like you missed?
Speaker CYou get what you need from a good meal, but you still want another good meal, don't you?
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BI already know what happens in the Seven Samurai.
Speaker BIf you were like, Donovan, let's turn on the Seven Samurai?
Speaker BAbsolutely.
Speaker AYou're talking to a guy who rarely eats.
Speaker AI rarely eat.
Speaker BNow that you can't afford to.
Speaker CYou've already heard that Bob Dylan record.
Speaker CWhy do you need to listen to it again?
Speaker AHey, I recommend.
Speaker ALet me give you my rundown on why I'm recommending this for people.
Speaker AAnd we can get into our spoiler section.
Speaker AI got a few reasons.
Speaker AIt'll test your ability in this age where we need to leave the world behind sometimes.
Speaker AAnd it'll.
Speaker AIt'll give you a reason to do that for three hours and 35 minutes and then see it because it's saying profound things about a period we may have started to assume some things about or taken for granted.
Speaker AAnd it's well done with good acting and good directing and pretty damn good writing.
Speaker CYou know, I don't want to harp on this too much, and it's a more broad idea, but I just remember going even, like, through Donovan when we were in college and shortly after going to the theater and walking out and feeling like I had been somewhere and like the world outside looked different when I walked out.
Speaker CIf the movie was good.
Speaker AWell, it's the opening line of the Outsiders.
Speaker AThat's what movies are supposed to do.
Speaker CBut I'm just not sure that they have that effect on me that often anymore.
Speaker ANo.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker AOf course.
Speaker CAnd I don't know if that's like a product of aging and just you've experienced more things so they.
Speaker CEach one feels a little less momentous, or if it's like, I know that the entire world is in my pocket.
Speaker COn the phone.
Speaker CYou feel like if you forget to put it on, totally silent.
Speaker CYou feel the notifications.
Speaker CYou feel whatever, like.
Speaker COr even when we're able to not look at something, it's still like our brains are divided in a way.
Speaker CAnd I think a film of this length, it just, through attrition, forces you to have that experience where you walk out and you're like, oh, where'd I park?
Speaker CWhere am I?
Speaker BYeah, I was just gonna jump in.
Speaker BI feel like the.
Speaker BObviously, I haven't seen this one, but some of the more impactful movie experiences I've had over probably the last five years have been longer movies.
Speaker BLike, you know, probably once I finally saw it, the.
Speaker BThe best movie that came out last year, Oppenheimer, was long.
Speaker BIt was and.
Speaker BAnd.
Speaker BAnd demanded the way it was shot.
Speaker BIt demanded your full attention.
Speaker AIt's a lot like setting the timer for 40 minutes and reading a book.
Speaker AYou know, just like putting the phone or setting an alarm and just reading for 40 straight minutes without doing anything else.
Speaker CIt's a little like that.
Speaker AAnd it's good for you.
Speaker BIt is good for you.
Speaker AAnd this movie is good enough to make that excuse to go to the movie theater and do it.
Speaker AYeah, that's what I.
Speaker AI was gonna say that.
Speaker AI'm not saying.
Speaker AI.
Speaker AI'm.
Speaker AIt's perfect.
Speaker AIt's not a five star review for me, but I'm saying it's damn good.
Speaker AI think Adam might give it the five stars.
Speaker COh, absolutely.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker ASo let's think it.
Speaker ALet's take a spoiler.
Speaker AYeah, well, let's take a break for spoilers.
Speaker AHow about that?
Speaker AAnd on the other side, we'll talk about Severance season two so far.
Speaker AProbably really heavy on episode two and three.
Speaker AAnd then we'll talk the brood list in detail.
Speaker BI'm George O'Connor, the New York Times bestselling author of the Olympians and Asgardians.
Speaker AI'm Tim Hamilton, cartoonist for the New Yorker.
Speaker BHere at Seti Bimco, we watch movies of dubious quality and fabricate revenge sequels for them that they never had before.
Speaker AWe also have fun games such as George's current currency.
Speaker BKerner diapers in 1960 cost $1.
Speaker BWhat do you think they would cost today?
Speaker CTim?
Speaker A$4?
Speaker AWrong.
Speaker ASeti Pimco Part 2, the Revenge.
Speaker CEvery Wednesday, any place you listen to podcasts.
Speaker ASo to begin, I'll say if given a choice.
Speaker ALuckily we don't have to make this choice, but if given a choice, I'd.
Speaker AI much prefer the Audi story than the Anyone.
Speaker AI'm referencing episode two, of course.
Speaker AAnd one Episode one, It's all in the Office.
Speaker AEpisode two, it's all what happened on the outside of the Office at the end of last season.
Speaker AWe get caught up on both of them via the two episodes.
Speaker AThat's probably to neither of Yalls surprise that I prefer the Audi story.
Speaker AYou probably could have guessed that I just found the second episode much better, even though I was happy to have the show back with its first episode and I thought it's pretty good.
Speaker BWell, the second episode brought back the one element that was really missing and I'd kind of forgotten about, and that's Rickon.
Speaker AFool.
Speaker BThis isn't in the second episode.
Speaker BI think it's in the third.
Speaker BBut like there's a bit where he's like reading his own faux profound work and it's.
Speaker BIt's so funny.
Speaker ANo, I think that is in the second episode.
Speaker BBut is that in the second?
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker BCause in the Second or third.
Speaker AIn the third, he's just being confronted by Natalie about maybe using his work.
Speaker AAnd I don't think.
Speaker BOh yeah, no, he was read.
Speaker BHe was reading it to her.
Speaker BShe like read the passage about like beer doesn't.
Speaker BHe's like, only wine can truly make you happy.
Speaker BWhich is why the poor are so often sad or something like that.
Speaker BIt was just a.
Speaker BHilarious.
Speaker AYou know what?
Speaker ASometimes he'll hit on something that's close enough to profound that I get it.
Speaker BYou know, that's why it's funny.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker CThe little joke that Mark loves, you know, kind of can't stand him in real life, but is any.
Speaker CThis naive guy about the world loves his.
Speaker CBut that's such a funny.
Speaker CLike that is a good one.
Speaker CObviously severance is doing a lot of things and that's just a nice joke tucked in there, but it's.
Speaker CIt always makes me smile.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BCracks me up.
Speaker ALike I said, you don't have to choose.
Speaker ABut did you prefer the second episode to the first?
Speaker ASeeing the outside world more so they.
Speaker BWere like two halves of a coin to me, really.
Speaker BIt was more.
Speaker BI didn't prefer one to the other.
Speaker BThey were just doing different things.
Speaker BAlthough I.
Speaker BFor me, although I.
Speaker BBlaine, I've seen some folks, some.
Speaker BSome critics say the same thing.
Speaker BYou said that without the.
Speaker BThe Audis, that they don't like it.
Speaker BLike the Audis is what is kind of the.
Speaker BThe meat of it, I guess, and moves.
Speaker BMoves it forward.
Speaker AIt's the emotional heart.
Speaker BYeah, that's.
Speaker BThat's what I was gonna.
Speaker BAlthough I think this.
Speaker BSo this is what I said earlier, talking about how well they know the characters is.
Speaker BI really liked seeing the actors do all their innies and all their outies in those back to back episodes because I think that you sympathize with both sides of them.
Speaker BAnd not only that, I think they're doing a good job of making you understand that like for this inner any person to not go back to work would be non existence.
Speaker BAnd maybe you would miss that person.
Speaker BMaybe he's growing and developing in a slightly different way from you.
Speaker CI think that they needed the first episode to drive that point home.
Speaker BYes.
Speaker CAnd I think that again, I know I mentioned it when we talked extensively about the first one, the scene where Dylan kind of begs Irving to stay, you know, because he would essentially be killing off his friend.
Speaker BYep.
Speaker BHe would never see him.
Speaker BHe would never see him again.
Speaker BAnd that's.
Speaker BI mean, it is kind of like a very, very basic existential question.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BBut it's like, what are you?
Speaker BWhat are you?
Speaker BAnd like, one of the answers is like, you're your memories.
Speaker BLike if, if you're.
Speaker BAnd you're the things you, you know, like, if those things disappear, you're.
Speaker BYou're dead.
Speaker BYou might as well not exist.
Speaker BYou're dead.
Speaker BThe you that was you.
Speaker AAnyway, a lot of haze being made about the new and I'll add creepy as hell intro this season.
Speaker ABaby John Turturro crawling around is giving me some baby Colin Robinson vibes minus any hilarity.
Speaker BLove it.
Speaker AIt's just weird.
Speaker ABut it does remind me of Colin Robinson, so I chuckle.
Speaker BThis is, this is just a super aside, but I kind of love it when shows mix up their opener for, like, season by season.
Speaker BYeah, I like that they did that.
Speaker AI like it.
Speaker AI don't want all shows doing this.
Speaker ASometimes I just want a theme song and credits.
Speaker BLook, I don't need the Simpsons to do this.
Speaker BJust give me a.
Speaker BGive me a new couch gag every week.
Speaker AYou know what?
Speaker AIt can be easy to forget for me that Adam Scott's a pretty damn good actor because he doesn't have this full rotunda of leading man qualities.
Speaker ABut the way he plays the awkwardness between Mark and Haley as they begin to search for Gemma in the third episode with their flyers in hand.
Speaker AIt's so funny and real.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker AAre we gonna kiss?
Speaker AWe're not gonna kiss.
Speaker AWell, let's go look for Gemma.
Speaker AIt's just.
Speaker ABut he says none of that.
Speaker AIt's just on his face.
Speaker AI thought, man, he's.
Speaker AI forgot that he's actually a good actor.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker AIt's funny because it's real.
Speaker BYou know, that was one of the things that made me think that they just have a really good sense.
Speaker BAnd I remember saying kind of a similar thing last season all those many years ago where I'm like, I kind of forgot how good Adam Scott is because he's like, he's usually in stuff that's, like, funny, but it's kind of lightweight.
Speaker BAnd here he has to do a bunch of stuff just like with his face, his mannerisms, his expression.
Speaker BHe has to be essentially two different people who are the same person.
Speaker ARight?
Speaker BIt's good.
Speaker CBlaine, what you were saying, the way he's playing off of his co workers then to be able to shift some and even without the dialogue that he's given to his Audi is so.
Speaker CYeah, like he has a different physical presence.
Speaker CIt's like after seeing him back to back in episode three for the first Time again.
Speaker CThe season as ne and Audi.
Speaker CIt really.
Speaker CYou know, there's a weight to him when he's outside.
Speaker CObviously, it's filled with.
Speaker CIt's filled with grief.
Speaker AIt's like his eyes droop more.
Speaker AAnd I don't know how you do that physically.
Speaker CWell, and I was gonna say outside he has all this weight, and then inside, it's like.
Speaker CCompared to that, the lights are on but nobody's home kind of effect.
Speaker ALike sometimes.
Speaker CLike, he is obviously smart and trying to piece everything together, but he's so naive.
Speaker BHe has no experience.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker AHe dumb.
Speaker CA little.
Speaker AIt was that Jerry's line rating of talking to his wife, his real wife.
Speaker CThat whole scene was.
Speaker CIt did a lot.
Speaker AIt was note perfect.
Speaker BYeah, that was funny.
Speaker BThat was Dylan.
Speaker CHe consistently gets some of the funnier lines.
Speaker AOh, yeah.
Speaker CAnd obviously they play it that way, but he.
Speaker CHe really has a way of just slinging him home.
Speaker BHe's good.
Speaker BYeah, I loved that.
Speaker BLike, all of them have little things where it's like their mannerisms are just from everything, like the kind of obvious.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BTo like, Helly's hair is back and she is more buttoned up to.
Speaker BI noticed.
Speaker BI guess I just never.
Speaker BBecause of the back to back.
Speaker BIt feels like Adam Scott is taking.
Speaker BIs pausing and taking longer to respond outsource outside, whereas he's, you know, like inside, you know, And I'm just.
Speaker BI love.
Speaker BI think they're doing a great.
Speaker BI think that's a testament, clearly, to the writers who are writing lines that.
Speaker BAnd stories that mix match these characters and the work the actors have put into it, because they've clearly put a ton of work into this.
Speaker AKudos to the writers this season because they've got John Turturro.
Speaker AThey've got the John Turturro.
Speaker AAnd it's almost like they forgot that sometimes in season one.
Speaker ABut this season, for three episodes, he's got this genteel look of care in his eyes, naturally.
Speaker AAnd they're just using that.
Speaker AAnd that longing for Burt, I don't think would be as real for me were it any other actor, for sure.
Speaker BThere's like.
Speaker BThere's just like a.
Speaker BThere's a sweet sadness there.
Speaker AAnd he's always had it.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker AExcept for maybe as Jesus in the Big Lebowski.
Speaker BThat's the Jesus.
Speaker AI don't know.
Speaker AMaybe you could find it there.
Speaker AThere's a sadness to Jesus.
Speaker AHe's sad.
Speaker BThere is a sadness to Jesus.
Speaker BThere's a sadness to all of them.
Speaker BBut I.
Speaker BYou know, I don't know if that's John Turo.
Speaker CThat's a good point, Blaine, because I hadn't thought about, you know, when he goes to.
Speaker CWhat is it, Archives or collections or whatever they call the.
Speaker AThe photos and all the.
Speaker BThe paintings o D or whatever.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CThere you immediately read him, by the way that he carries the character as someone who would know about art, who would know about.
Speaker CHe's a cultured person.
Speaker CHe's a.
Speaker CBut how can he carry that in from the outside?
Speaker CYou know, we're back to the discussion of, like, what.
Speaker CWhere are the lines drawn in experience?
Speaker CYou know, like, you're looking at someone.
Speaker CThe ennie has never seen a Van Gogh.
Speaker CYou know what I mean?
Speaker CLike, does the Enni know who Michelangelo is?
Speaker CBut you're kind of like thinking that must be there somewhere because he has this ability to come across as cultured.
Speaker AWe get a little bit more of a hint on how it works when at the end of the episode with the wavelengths connecting.
Speaker ASo there might be something in this wavelength versus another, and that's probably too scientific than the show really wants to deal with.
Speaker AAnd don't.
Speaker BI don't need it.
Speaker BI don't need an explanation.
Speaker CI love that.
Speaker CIt's like they almost use.
Speaker CYou know how, like, Star wars, the original run, the Death Star was controlled by, like, a TV control panel or something, you know?
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker CLike, when they're firing up all that gear, it's like, no, they're about to make a.
Speaker CAn analog record.
Speaker CThey're recording the tape.
Speaker CThat's what's happening here.
Speaker AIt does look like that.
Speaker CThey're turning on all the compressors and everything.
Speaker AOh, yeah.
Speaker ALetting them warm up.
Speaker CI love the.
Speaker CYeah, the tubes have to warm up.
Speaker CThe aesthetic of the whole thing.
Speaker CWe've talked about that before, but, yeah, it's like, why.
Speaker CWhy get bogged down in science?
Speaker CHere's a great idea.
Speaker CHere's two waves.
Speaker CShe's going to try to make them line up.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AHave we discussed how this show may be Dan Erickson and Ben Stiller's obvious jab at Scientology?
Speaker BI don't think so.
Speaker CI could see it with the waves, too.
Speaker CYeah, that's.
Speaker AWell, go back to Ben Stiller's earlier career in the 90s, and he was.
Speaker AHe would occasionally pop up at places, award shows and mimic Tom Cruise to perfection.
Speaker AAnd he does a good Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker AGo look it up.
Speaker AWhy not take the swing?
Speaker AYou know, if you're him.
Speaker AThe stilted verbiage.
Speaker AMilton's Ascension being the best example.
Speaker AIt sounds so much like that Scientology.
Speaker AThere are other examples.
Speaker AHaving the one leader who's.
Speaker AWho's human and not a God or a religious deity or something.
Speaker AAnd there are more.
Speaker AChanging that painting to match Milchick's race felt Scientology in a way.
Speaker AWhat did you all make of that?
Speaker CThat was an interesting scene in that, like, because you wondered the whole time, like, what role does.
Speaker CLike, we're not totally sure where we are geographically or what is happening in u.
Speaker CS.
Speaker CHistory, or, you know, like, does religion still exist?
Speaker CWhat would a religious.
Speaker CI mean, for real, like, what would a religious leader say about the severing process and human consciousness?
Speaker CBut also, what.
Speaker CWhat are these characters bringing to work as far as the baggage of culture?
Speaker CYou know, like, when he sees that they've airbrushed a black man into these pictures, like, what.
Speaker CWhat does that trigger in him?
Speaker CIs it.
Speaker CIs it the same thing for him that it is for an audience watching in America in 2025?
Speaker AYeah, it seems like it bothered him.
Speaker AAnd it could be the spark of his distancing from how he feels about Lumen.
Speaker AIf you go back and watch that scene, Natalie gives him a look that's a little.
Speaker AThe camera lingers on for a millisecond.
Speaker BYep, Yep.
Speaker CAnd her face acting in that moment was great because I felt like.
Speaker CI assume you're talking about a look where she says there's some level of, like, empathy and, like, can you believe they do this?
Speaker CBut we can't talk about it.
Speaker CAnd then the smile slowly returns.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker CAnd, like, the corporate woman is back.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker AThe fake corporate smile.
Speaker ADonovan, I have a question just for you.
Speaker BYes?
Speaker AWhen you encounter a co worker, you don't know, do they ask if they've.
Speaker AIf you've come to kill them?
Speaker BYeah, usually.
Speaker AOkay, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker BIs it because I'm carrying a knife, I'm covered in blood, like, there are goats.
Speaker BYeah, but.
Speaker BBut you know I gotta have lunch, right?
Speaker AIs the goat subplot too weird for its own good?
Speaker BNo, I like it.
Speaker AYou do?
Speaker BI like.
Speaker BI like the surreal.
Speaker BI like just the surreality of it.
Speaker BSurreality is what the meant.
Speaker BWhat I should have said.
Speaker BI was even, like, kind of laughing at myself as they're, like, panning among the goats, and I'm like, oh, they got.
Speaker BThey got black Philip here.
Speaker BAnd then it's really the guy and the go.
Speaker CThat's it.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker BI found myself really liking the weird contrast of, like, the goats and the grass with, like, the sterile sky and the.
Speaker BI liked the question they asked, like, can we see Your bellies.
Speaker BBecause like, clearly these are people who are working on it, who.
Speaker BWho are essentially newborns working on it with technical knowledge, working on a different project.
Speaker BAnd perhaps that's making them think about human beings in a certain way that for whatever reason they're arguing over whether humans have pouches or not.
Speaker BI did actually like it.
Speaker BAnd also because it didn't just come out of nowhere.
Speaker BWe had the.
Speaker BWe knew about this place where.
Speaker BWe knew that this place existed.
Speaker BWe hadn't been here before.
Speaker CAlthough some goat interpretive dancing too, last season.
Speaker CRight?
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker CIn addition to seeing the baby goats.
Speaker BIt had a really great.
Speaker BAnd I mean like, this is just like push my buttons.
Speaker BBut it had a really great feel of menace.
Speaker BLike if you took weird folk horror and brought it into.
Speaker BUnder hospital lights.
Speaker AOh yeah.
Speaker CThe green grass and the drop tile ceiling and the way that.
Speaker CI know this is like such a dumb thing to think about, but there was still a vending machine on the wall, right?
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CThey train a dance and I was wondering like, does someone bring a weed eater around to like trim the edge around the vending machine?
Speaker CDonovan, what do you think that.
Speaker CThe pouch thing.
Speaker BSo my read on that was they're doing, you know, they're mammalian something, right.
Speaker BLike they're doing some kind of husbandry, biological experiment.
Speaker BAnd for some.
Speaker BOr something.
Speaker BAnd so for whatever reason, because the knowledge that they have is in the air, but it's like.
Speaker BIt's like, you know, they're basically like, they're.
Speaker BThey're.
Speaker BThey're total innocence.
Speaker BThey have no experience.
Speaker BBut obviously they have to know a little something.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BLike we know everyone here can read, people can write.
Speaker BSo you do bring some things over with you.
Speaker BI'm thinking that whatever work they're doing in the realm of animal husbandry has.
Speaker BHas led them to speculate about what the vast mass of humanity is like.
Speaker BAnd that might involve pouches for some reason.
Speaker CSo your read is that they are all normal.
Speaker CAny Audi.
Speaker CSevered workers?
Speaker BYes, probably.
Speaker BI think.
Speaker BI think everyone there is severed.
Speaker CBut they.
Speaker CBecause I kind of took it to.
Speaker CTo mean that they know something about some project that's going on and there are manipulated humans wandering the corridors.
Speaker BSure.
Speaker BThat could be I.
Speaker AWhich could be what Gemma was.
Speaker BYeah, yeah, it kind of does.
Speaker BYou know, it could.
Speaker BI think that I could be totally wrong.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BLike when he says that doesn't prove anything.
Speaker BHe could be saying that doesn't prove anything about the disagreement we're having or that doesn't prove that they're not.
Speaker BWhatever they were Looking altered by having some other.
Speaker CYeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker CWell, that's one of the big theories floating around, is that what the team.
Speaker CWhat our team is doing is somehow creating consciousness for something.
Speaker CLike almost creating an algorithm of a person that could be reanimating one of the family.
Speaker COr it could be Gemma.
Speaker COr it could be.
Speaker CWho knows?
Speaker AI'm just saying that they better hit me with a.
Speaker AOf course there's a goat farm in the middle of this office building.
Speaker AOr I'm claiming it to be a little weird for weird sake, which is.
Speaker AThat's the worst kind of weird.
Speaker AThe second being is, of course, Eric Trump.
Speaker CIt bothers you.
Speaker CYou think it's weird for weird sake.
Speaker AI don't, but it gives me.
Speaker AIf they don't have a pretty clear purpose.
Speaker AIt is.
Speaker AYeah, but they probably have a clear purpose.
Speaker AI just hadn't seen it yet.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CI feel like they're.
Speaker CLike they're engineering something.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker COr studying something.
Speaker CI'm still can't shake the idea that, like, some of those goat workers.
Speaker CLet's call them.
Speaker CYeah, they were a little beat up.
Speaker AWell, I'm surprised you're not applauding how they pulled the entire cast of the original Wicker man for these roles.
Speaker COh, I mean, my heart.
Speaker CBe still my heart when they're all standing on the.
Speaker CThe rise above them.
Speaker CYeah, yeah.
Speaker CThis.
Speaker CThis is content for me.
Speaker BThis is good.
Speaker AThese are straight out of a 1952 British film.
Speaker CWhat if you get kicked by a goat and they take you to the elevator and send you back up and you get out and you're like, what.
Speaker CWhat the hell do I do?
Speaker BWhat the hell happened?
Speaker CWhy?
Speaker CWhat is this?
Speaker CThis mark on my leg?
Speaker AAn even more realistic question might be, I forget her name if it was said, but the Brienne of Tarth, you know, she may go home with blood splatters on her.
Speaker ADoes she clean?
Speaker CThat's what I'm saying.
Speaker AShe gets in the elevator.
Speaker AYeah, yeah.
Speaker ABecause they're all severed except for Milchick and maybe his secretary, Ms.
Speaker AHuang.
Speaker BSeems like she might not be.
Speaker AShe might not.
Speaker AIt's hard to say.
Speaker BI'm not sure.
Speaker COne of the.
Speaker CIf we want to get into theory land, I would love to know what y'all think about this.
Speaker AGo ahead.
Speaker CThere are people who think that Milchek and Patricia Arquette.
Speaker CCobel.
Speaker CCobell.
Speaker AOh, yeah.
Speaker AHarmony Cobell.
Speaker CThey think that they are severed and that their innies have been given free rein and the Audis decided to essentially be killed.
Speaker AThat makes sense.
Speaker AI was wondering if they were Changed in a different way.
Speaker ABut that would be the way.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CThere's a.
Speaker CThere's three things that I'll point to in this episode after somebody.
Speaker CThe most recent episode after somebody posited this one, they kind of teased this with Dylan.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker CI'm sure we're going to talk about him and his wife, but he.
Speaker CHe's clearly a better version of himself at work.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CThan he is the guy at home.
Speaker CWould you start doing the math?
Speaker CHe's like a guy who can't even cut the tube.
Speaker CCookies in the oven.
Speaker AIt's a tube.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker CHis wife is going off to work, what looks to be security or something.
Speaker CNight shift.
Speaker CAnd he can't even be bothered to.
Speaker CAlso, they can't pay these severed people more that she doesn't have to have that job.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CThat's what's going on here.
Speaker CTwo, Milchick driving the motorcycle.
Speaker CPeople think it seems a little out of step with what his character would be.
Speaker CAnd it would be a very.
Speaker CAnything to be like, oh, I bet my Audi rides a motorcycle.
Speaker CYou know what I mean?
Speaker CLike, that's a very, like, childlike thing to think about.
Speaker CThree, When Heli out.
Speaker CHelena.
Speaker CI guess.
Speaker CSure.
Speaker CAudi.
Speaker CHeli is talking to Cabell.
Speaker CShe says, I think you need a reset.
Speaker AThat's right.
Speaker AVery specific wording there.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker ABut I go to that motorcycle there.
Speaker AThere's a lot to be said about the cars in this show.
Speaker ANot a one of them were made before 1999.
Speaker CNo.
Speaker BBut the kind of like anodyne beaten up, like in the back.
Speaker BYou know, they're just like this kind of like, bland that you.
Speaker BYeah, I was.
Speaker BI was noticing because it.
Speaker BWhich I.
Speaker BI mean, I.
Speaker BI assume that's intentional to kind of.
Speaker BIt has to be story in us.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BThere's a whole parking lot of that time and place.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker AJust could be another sign that they're not paying these people that much.
Speaker AYou gotta drive a 1990 Buick.
Speaker BHey, did you guys enjoy seeing Iceland?
Speaker CLove it.
Speaker BYou like when you like when he showed up?
Speaker CLoved it.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker AOh, episode two, Iceland from somebody somewhere.
Speaker AI thought you just made the landscape look like.
Speaker BNo, no, no.
Speaker AYeah, yeah.
Speaker CHe cleans up great.
Speaker AHe looks.
Speaker BWe got a little.
Speaker BWe got a little.
Speaker BWe got a little treat.
Speaker ASo is he a Egan or one of their close workers?
Speaker CHe's the muscle, right?
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker BHe seems like.
Speaker BHe seems like the fixer.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AI want to see more of his character.
Speaker AI want to see more Milchick.
Speaker AI am really enthralled by Tillman's acting.
Speaker AOf course.
Speaker AHe's so good.
Speaker AHe's.
Speaker AThey found a jewel when they found him because I'd never heard of him, but that doesn't mean anything.
Speaker ABut the way he played, you know, looking at those pictures, boy, you could read five different theories just in his expression and his eyes.
Speaker ASo you know what it kind of.
Speaker BReminded me of, And I don't know if this is intentional or not, but two characters they had do similar things in recent proximity to each other is Adam Scott in the first episode where he kind of like, has locked eyes with Ms.
Speaker BWang, and she's like, hey, I'm.
Speaker BI have to remind you, you know, I'm a supervisor, not a friend.
Speaker BAnd it stays on him for a really long time, and you can just kind of see.
Speaker BAnd I.
Speaker BAnd then I believe he did the same, and I think he did a great job, but I believe they did.
Speaker BI don't know.
Speaker BI think we're supposed to notice the parallel there.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BAnd I agree.
Speaker BBlaine, he's.
Speaker BHe's a fantastic actor.
Speaker AYou can see there in one of.
Speaker AIn his eyes that one of his thoughts was you.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ALet's talk about Dylan's meeting with his wife.
Speaker AMan, you.
Speaker BThat was so good, man.
Speaker ASet up some sad stories just from that.
Speaker AWell, they got 18 minutes, but that wasn't the screen time.
Speaker ANot least of which is how he was maybe on the outside before life got him.
Speaker ABecause she.
Speaker AShe married probably not a guy who was sitting around on the couch all the time.
Speaker CEven the way that he says, hey, how did the thing go?
Speaker CThat's like his way of addressing it.
Speaker CThat was inside.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AI thought, wait, is he supposed to know about that?
Speaker CWell, I mean, I sheep.
Speaker CBut it wasn't.
Speaker CYeah, it wouldn't matter if he knows or not really.
Speaker CI mean, everything about the control of the situation that's shown the whole time.
Speaker CLike, they're.
Speaker CThey're not really unsupervised.
Speaker CYou know that.
Speaker CVery creepy.
Speaker CThe way her voice chimes in and says, let's not talk about what it.
Speaker CWhat's the.
Speaker AThey start talking about personal details.
Speaker CThere you go.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CI mean, the obvious crushing moment is when his wife says, I love you, and he doesn't really know what to.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker CBecause he doesn't know this person.
Speaker BHe's like, okay, that's nice.
Speaker CHe can't even.
Speaker CYou can see.
Speaker CI talk about people acting, what's happening on the inside.
Speaker CYou see him kind of cycle through his options, you know, like, do you say this back to a person that you met 18 minutes ago who clearly Means something to you or.
Speaker CAnd I don't mean like lovey dovey, romantic, like a romantic about humanity show would say.
Speaker COh, but you know that that's an important person.
Speaker CWhether you can place it or not, you still know.
Speaker CAnd it's.
Speaker CNo, it's not that.
Speaker ABob Dylan said in the complete unknown, I just met you.
Speaker ASo.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker ADoes it weird you out?
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AOkay, we are going to let Donovan slip away from us for the week because from one capitalist romp to another and.
Speaker BAnd I hope, remember, please answer my question.
Speaker BIf the Brutalist was a super villain, who would he fight?
Speaker AThat's gonna be the first on our list.
Speaker AWell, he's obviously fighting Captain America, right?
Speaker CI would think so.
Speaker CAnd his name would be the Brood.
Speaker CA list.
Speaker AThat's bad.
Speaker CYou get it.
Speaker AThat's bad.
Speaker AThat's so bad.
Speaker AIt's good lot to go with here.
Speaker AAnd it's hard not to start at the end and work my way back or what I did mentally on the way home from the movies.
Speaker ABut.
Speaker ABut hey, that early image of the upside down Statue of Liberty is a perfect directorial choice once you see the film and maybe even before you see it.
Speaker CThat's so good.
Speaker CI mean, I really don't know how to start unpacking this.
Speaker ALet's listen, let's try to go backward if at all.
Speaker COkay.
Speaker AWe'll go reverse chronological of.
Speaker AOf how it's presented.
Speaker CWell, and that.
Speaker CThat works too, because the film also does that.
Speaker AWait, it does.
Speaker CThere's that shot of the first interview at the very end with his niece.
Speaker CThey show her again in that interview room with the Soviets.
Speaker AOh.
Speaker AOh, it's so brief.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker AOh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker AIt's so brief that I almost didn't consider it.
Speaker CSo I would say that we have been invited to analyze the film this way.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AWell, it ends in 1980 and he's way more renowned than I mentioned.
Speaker AAt the top, he's a famous architect of your Frank Lloyd Wright type of figure.
Speaker AAnd there he is in a wheelchair, old.
Speaker AHis wife has passed away at this point and Laszlo is being celebrated for his work.
Speaker AAnd is that his niece or his great niece would be.
Speaker AHis great niece.
Speaker CHis great niece.
Speaker CThat is his niece's child.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker CAnd his.
Speaker CWell, that is his niece speaking.
Speaker CBut his niece is.
Speaker CHis great niece is being played by the actress who has played his niece the whole time in that scene.
Speaker AOh, okay, okay.
Speaker CWhy?
Speaker CI don't know.
Speaker AResemblance.
Speaker CI mean, it has to mean something.
Speaker AWell, there maybe, but this also was made on.
Speaker AOn the cheap for a movie of its stature.
Speaker AIt's $10 million or so and that's apparently really cheap for a big movie.
Speaker AI think the director, Corbett, kind of had to scrap some funds together.
Speaker AThat's.
Speaker AThat is honestly my.
Speaker AMy one bigger complaint is that I can see that.
Speaker ANot that it's a cheap movie, but I could A lot of times these period pieces movie, you really feel like you're there.
Speaker AAs far as, other than costuming, I didn't quite feel like I was ever in the time period.
Speaker AMaybe that's not here nor there.
Speaker CI.
Speaker CI completely felt like I was there.
Speaker AYeah, you were in Pennsylvania in 1952.
Speaker CI, I think they did a few clever things and I'm going to start from the beginning.
Speaker CI know we wanted to start from the end, but that, I think it sets the mood when you have this young woman, who we're not sure who she is, being interviewed in a language that we don't want to meet as Americans immediately recognize.
Speaker AOh yeah.
Speaker CAnd then it flashes to him in this very confusing scene, right.
Speaker CIt's dark, very dark.
Speaker AVery.
Speaker ACameras moving everywhere.
Speaker AYou have no idea.
Speaker AI thought it was a concentration camp scene.
Speaker CI thought that given that she was being interviewed and it seemed to be like a post war situation, that he was perhaps somewhere in Europe.
Speaker CAnd we're going to start there about how, you know, he's been liberated from a camp and now he's gone somewhere else.
Speaker CAnd the general chaos of where do you put all these displaced people?
Speaker CHe's in the cogs of that machine.
Speaker CBut that's slow reveal of them going in to New York and you see the Statue of Liberty and I mean, what an immigrant coming to America, it being an immigrant story.
Speaker CYou know that when you sit down in the theater and them opening with the Statue of Liberty and then somehow not feeling cliche is as I'm saying it out loud, I'm becoming more impressed by the fact that they pulled that off.
Speaker AOh yeah.
Speaker AIt's disorienting on purpose.
Speaker AIt's very good.
Speaker CAnd I think the, the way that they showed that disorientation and that chaos and you just, you immediately are ready to feel a lot of things that aren't said out loud.
Speaker AHuh?
Speaker CYou know, even when they're going through, I assume, Ellis island and the guy's speaking and it's also being repeated in another language and they say if you have somewhere to go, you go to this place.
Speaker CIf you don't, if you're moving on and here's a bunch of humans wearing those large numbers around their neck in this very.
Speaker CLike, how many times can he be dehumanized?
Speaker CObviously, this is better than being tattooed in a concentration camp with a number.
Speaker CBut this massive government body is still processing you in some way.
Speaker CAnd you already have a sense that he is.
Speaker CThat there's a lot under the surface with him.
Speaker CYou know, he carries.
Speaker CIt wasn't shocking to me when it's revealed, and not just because, you know, that's what the movie's about, but when it finally comes out just how renowned he had been before the war.
Speaker CThis is not surprising.
Speaker AIt's funny that it doesn't feel dehumanizing until you reflect back.
Speaker ALike you see the numbers on him and you.
Speaker AI think, oh, thank you.
Speaker AOkay, we're gonna start in America.
Speaker AYou know, the rough stuff's over for him.
Speaker AMaybe.
Speaker AOf course there's gonna be conflict or there's not a movie.
Speaker ABut movie runs in a hefty 3 hours, 35 minutes.
Speaker AAnd I'm not so sure that besides some obvious themes.
Speaker AWe'll talk about that.
Speaker AIt's also kind of about attention and attention spans.
Speaker AIt's almost like the film touches on where we put our attention while it challenges our very attention spans at the same time.
Speaker AYou know, the primary example is that he spends his entire, most of his adult life bridging the gap between he and his wife that'll never be recovered despite them being reunited.
Speaker AAnd it's like that's his attention, that's his focus, and he jumps on it any chance he gets.
Speaker ADespite having to deal with Van Buren.
Speaker AThe fact that it's 3 hours, 35 minutes I think is a choice beyond just.
Speaker AI gotta tell the whole story.
Speaker CYeah, yeah, I think so too.
Speaker CAnd I think it.
Speaker CIt is naturally doing things that make us ask these questions.
Speaker CAnd, you know, I read there's a great.
Speaker COn Rogeribert.com interview with the director where he is asked a question that's not about money.
Speaker CBut by like the third paragraph of his answer, he's talking about how hard it is to be an artist.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CAnd having to depend on essentially industrialists to survive.
Speaker CHe said, I know people who are up for best picture who struggle to pay their rent, you know, those sorts of things.
Speaker CSo I.
Speaker CHow many things is this about?
Speaker CYou know, there's that postmodern, like, it's so self referential and like what you're saying.
Speaker CAnd it's.
Speaker CIt's about art.
Speaker CRight?
Speaker CIt's a piece of art about art.
Speaker AThat's where I was going to go with this.
Speaker AYes.
Speaker CBut it's also about.
Speaker CIt's asking questions of attention span.
Speaker CAnd, you know, he even pointed out that by the time it was printed to 70 millimeter film, when that's delivered to a theater, that's 26 reels of film for this movie.
Speaker CIt.
Speaker CIt's heavy.
Speaker CIt is literally heavy.
Speaker AOh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker AIt's a lot about capitalism.
Speaker ACapitalism and how art exists in a strict, burgeoning capitalist land where at first glance there's only hopes fulfilled and dreams achieved and everybody gets the golden ticket.
Speaker AIf you just think about it cursory.
Speaker ACursorily.
Speaker AI was turned off about viewing this initially because the mode of artistic expression here is architecture.
Speaker ABecause I guess because I just don't know a lot about architecture.
Speaker AI can't speak on it.
Speaker AAnd it's not the most exciting if you're from our realm, which I dabbled in music.
Speaker AYou are a musician.
Speaker AI've done some writing.
Speaker AYou do a lot of writing.
Speaker AIf you do those, architecture can feel forward and maybe even stiff and boring.
Speaker ASo when I first found out he was an architect, I was like, well, don't want to watch a movie about an architect.
Speaker ABut it fits perfectly because in the end, you know, of that replica, he kind of built builds to join his.
Speaker AHe and his wife's confinements in their concentration camps.
Speaker CYou don't like architecture?
Speaker ANah, it doesn't interest me at all.
Speaker AYou know.
Speaker AWhat's the other thing that doesn't interest me?
Speaker AOh, food.
Speaker AFood is art.
Speaker AI'm not interested in that.
Speaker CSee, I think architecture appeals to me because it's.
Speaker CI mean, this.
Speaker CThis sounds trite, but it's like the manipulation of space and the creation of something inspiring or comforting or.
Speaker CThat makes me think that's.
Speaker CThat's like turning air into sound for music.
Speaker CI was with it.
Speaker AI get that.
Speaker AWith that same idea.
Speaker AIt can turn me off because I'm thinking, just give me a place to put my bed, you know, and my tv.
Speaker CWell, it's a bit like fashion in that, like you.
Speaker CYou have to have money to participate in this as art.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CWhich can be a turn off for sure.
Speaker AYes.
Speaker AYou know, you made me think of something.
Speaker AThis movie.
Speaker AI don't think it's wrong to read this movie as a comment on streaming culture and getting things for free.
Speaker AWho.
Speaker AOf course, it's about ownership.
Speaker ACapitalism, art and ownership.
Speaker AWas it inspired indirectly by.
Speaker AI can stream this and don't take it away.
Speaker AI don't have to pay for it.
Speaker ABut don't you dare take it down off of YouTube.
Speaker CYou can't make a three and a half hour movie in this day and age without it being even inadvertently a middle finger to streaming culture.
Speaker CRight?
Speaker AYeah, well, maybe specifically music streaming where no one buys the album, they just stream it.
Speaker AAnd if it's not on YouTube, it doesn't exist to me.
Speaker CWell, and I would say the concerns of the film world are very similar in that, like, if.
Speaker CIf it's an.
Speaker CAn HBO owned thing and then HBO decides they don't want it on whatever HBO Go is called now.
Speaker CIt just doesn't exist, you know?
Speaker ACan't believe you still call it that.
Speaker AIt's Max.
Speaker CWhat's a HBO Max?
Speaker ANo, just Max.
Speaker CMax.
Speaker CPaw Paw.
Speaker AIt's Max.
Speaker CBut you know what I mean, it's possible for things to just be lost now.
Speaker CAnd like, in the era when you would think that we have infinite amounts of space for things, you can't even go down to like the local film store and talk to the nerd behind the counter who knows how to get the movie you want to watch.
Speaker CLike, there are streaming things that were created and never printed on anything that now just don't exist.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AYoung people, I can comment on this because I'm around them a lot.
Speaker AYoung people, if it's not on YouTube or Netflix, it's like it doesn't exist.
Speaker AYou tell them about something and they go, oh, is that on Netflix?
Speaker ANo.
Speaker AOh, and you can just see their interest drain.
Speaker CI couldn't watch HBO when I was in high school because we didn't have hbo.
Speaker AOkay.
Speaker CSo like.
Speaker CAnd that was, to me, that was almost like a.
Speaker CBeing a kid and not understanding that HBO was only like, not that much more a month.
Speaker CIt was almost like a socioeconomic thing.
Speaker CIt's like.
Speaker CWell, like when I would hear people talk about watching the Sopranos, it was like, oh, their parents have money.
Speaker AYou know, it's like, Netflix is cable.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker AAnd if, if it's not on Netflix.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker ALet's get in the specifics of the movie.
Speaker AThen.
Speaker ALaszlo recreates and creates with his own ideas.
Speaker AHe also kind of gets this opportunity to reclaim what religion, or maybe ideology and religion that aren't his can mean to him.
Speaker AHe's building this very Protestant type community center.
Speaker AAnd in the end, it might very well be more about his time at a concentration camp and his wife's time.
Speaker CWell, I think the, the ending is much debated about.
Speaker CYes, it is, online and amongst critics.
Speaker CAnd I don't really want to talk extensively about this because it just seems completely loaded with landmines of when you start Talking about Zionism, it's like, oh, yeah, you know what that means?
Speaker CAnd yes, in 2025.
Speaker CBut it's interesting that his niece only starts talking when she says they do that flash forward and suddenly she's married and pregnant and telling them, I'm going to Israel.
Speaker AYep.
Speaker AOnly time she.
Speaker AYeah, you're right.
Speaker CAnd then she delivers a speech where she's gone from someone who refuses to talk to someone who can give an authoritative, very well done speech to a large group of people.
Speaker CFor her uncle, who apparently cannot speak for himself at that moment.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CPeople thought that the.
Speaker CThe ending, if you take it at face value, you know, you go from this, like, incredibly nuanced world building thing to a very tidy summary of like.
Speaker CAnd then he did this, this and this, and it all kind of worked out.
Speaker CYou know, he talks multiple times when he's asked about architecture and he said, well, the best way to describe a cube is how a cube is built.
Speaker CSomething like that.
Speaker CAnd says over and over that he's astounded that his buildings survived the war.
Speaker CHe thinks that they work as art because they're not eroded by moments in time and the waves of politics or the waves of war.
Speaker CAll these things.
Speaker CTo then have his Zionist niece say this is about the Holocaust was interesting.
Speaker AIt can be interpreted that how she wants to see it.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker CThat's kind of what I'm getting at is like, I think that they're.
Speaker CI think it's very moving.
Speaker CIf that is, if we, if we take it at face value.
Speaker AIf we take it.
Speaker AAnd you don't have to.
Speaker ABecause.
Speaker CBecause what you were saying about him and his wife's relationship in the.
Speaker CThey just did such a good job.
Speaker CI mean, Adrien Brody in this, if he doesn't win all of the awards, I don't.
Speaker CI don't understand why we have awards.
Speaker CHim and Felicity Jones, Right.
Speaker CWho plays his wife, the way that they go through this traumatic period and reunion and then to say the building's about it, all this.
Speaker CI mean, it's.
Speaker CIt's so moving for it to be reduced at the end.
Speaker CThe niece says it's always about the destination, not the journey.
Speaker CAnd it's such a pop psychology thing to like, wrap up all of that nuance and subtlety.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AIf what she said is true and it's not just how she wants to interpret it and present it in 2025 or, excuse me, 1980 when she's talking about it.
Speaker AYou're right.
Speaker AIt's a beautiful, deep, resonant structure that's that's going to go well beyond.
Speaker ABut if it's not, then there's also this notion of how do we interpret art?
Speaker AAnd is that your ownership of the art is your interpretation?
Speaker AHarrison Van Buren may own or pay for the structure or have a large chunk of it, but he's got no real input into its art, its structure, its layout, its design or its interpretation.
Speaker AEspecially as the years go on and, you know, who exerts power over art.
Speaker AThere's a lot of that, I think, happening here.
Speaker CYeah, absolutely.
Speaker CAnd I think, you know, I'm not.
Speaker CI don't want to diminish her speech at the end if it is to be taken at face value, because, again, I do think it's very moving and does work as a tidy explanation of what you just watched.
Speaker CYou know, it's nice to see that he went on to, you know, when they do those flash frames of like, he worked on this church, he worked on the synagogue, he did all of this.
Speaker CThat's a life well lived.
Speaker CYou know, that he moved not only past the horrors of the Holocaust, but I think it was interesting, the director said, what do you say here?
Speaker CThis is about a character who flees fascism only to encounter capitalism.
Speaker CAnd he.
Speaker CHe still seems to continue to.
Speaker CTo thrive in spite of it.
Speaker CI don't.
Speaker CThis.
Speaker CAs we talk more about it, just more and more doors open.
Speaker AHe thrives eventually, but the part we see is not a pleasant type of thriving.
Speaker CWell, then the question is, I think he is set up as a character for whom he may not say that the destination is more important than the journey, but he would say the art is more important than the artist, or the art is worth suffering for because it will outlast the individual.
Speaker CFor him, all the things that he did would mean that he was thriving.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AThe scene where Van Buren rapes Lazlo was not.
Speaker AIt was not graphic.
Speaker AAlmost to the point where I questioned what I saw.
Speaker AThe verbal abuse in the scene was apparent and sick.
Speaker ASo I was shocked at how blatant his wife was when she confronts Harrison at his home at the dinner.
Speaker AAnd I appreciated it that she just used the word, the exact words, you're a rapist.
Speaker CAnd I thought all that was her showing up.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CFor that very first meal where he.
Speaker CThen Buren throws the coin at him.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AYes.
Speaker CAnd that this may play again into the idea that he's willing to take all of that.
Speaker CLaszlo is.
Speaker CIn order to accomplish this goal of building this building, whatever this building means to him.
Speaker CBut his wife has a much stronger sense of it's.
Speaker CNot a sense of self and it's not pride, but it's like, why are you taking this from this guy?
Speaker CShe was never charmed by the whole thing.
Speaker CAnd to see her, I loved the way that all of that played out, that she was his champion.
Speaker CWent in, yelled at him, and then the guy retreats.
Speaker CAnd as people have said online, he ends up lost in a piece of art that he could never comprehend or fully own.
Speaker AIf it had ended there, I.
Speaker AI would have loved it still.
Speaker CYeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker AI'm not so sure if I wouldn't have loved it even more, because I really dig a certain kind of ambiguity.
Speaker AThere's still that.
Speaker AThere's still a ambiguity to what Zofia's daughter had said at the end in 1980.
Speaker AA very important character, in a way that signifies where this movie wants our thoughts to go, is that of Harry Jr.
Speaker AHe's like his dad, but worse.
Speaker AHe.
Speaker AHe wants to cheat Laszlo out of Pavement.
Speaker AHe wants to do more with less.
Speaker AHe's the first to sexually assault someone in the movie.
Speaker AHis character really gives this view that if you don't think the older generation of America is full of rotten, like the wife says, wait until you see what's coming next.
Speaker AAnd in that, there's a bit of Donald and Fred Trump even.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CI mean, in the.
Speaker CHis.
Speaker CHis dad is a self made man.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker AAnd the son's a little spoiled.
Speaker ARight.
Speaker CSo he has all of the bad qualities on that.
Speaker CThat exponential growth or growth or devil.
Speaker CRight, right.
Speaker CGrowth into.
Speaker CInto being a shithead.
Speaker CEverything was played well with that because he.
Speaker CIn some ways, he could have been so much worse.
Speaker CBut then he ends.
Speaker CThere are moments where you think like, oh, they could really have leaned into this cliche of the little shit son.
Speaker AYeah, they could have.
Speaker AIt was.
Speaker AYeah, it was.
Speaker CBut then by the end, when he drags a crippled woman out of the room, you're like, oh, this.
Speaker CThis dude is a monster.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ABecause he played it fairly subtly and it's written fairly subtly up up to the end.
Speaker ASuddenly is not quite the adjective or adverb.
Speaker AIt's.
Speaker AIt's a step up above subtle.
Speaker ALike you could probably get the read on him.
Speaker ABut then of course, he does the.
Speaker AThe horrendous thing of dragging her lot to unpack here, least of all the racism and nationalism.
Speaker AI don't want to be always the America's Got Problems guy, but interesting to set the movie right after a time when we're so glorious, just after beating the bad guys, you know, we were so Wonderful.
Speaker AAnd yet how did we treat those?
Speaker AWe just helped in some cases.
Speaker CThe idea that people can just fall through the cracks, you know, even in that post war boom.
Speaker CEven the way that he is Van Buren.
Speaker CDidn't they say early on that he made a lot of his fortune during the war by he did something with like building ships or something like that?
Speaker CI think Attila the cousin tells Lazlo that pretty early on that's where the family money is, is coming from.
Speaker CAttila the cousin Attila.
Speaker AYeah, I know that with the way you said that hit me again.
Speaker AAnother idea.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AAnd you could.
Speaker AEverybody could probably tell what the idea was.
Speaker CThere's these two men on.
Speaker CPlaced in different stations in life.
Speaker COne profiting on the thing that destroyed the other.
Speaker CNo, it's just.
Speaker CI mean it's right there on the surface, you know.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AI was shocked by the rape scene and the rape.
Speaker ABut I also didn't see it being an addict story.
Speaker ADidn't know that going in.
Speaker AOr wouldn't have guessed.
Speaker CNo, I wouldn't.
Speaker CAnd again, it's like how many things is this movie doing?
Speaker AIt.
Speaker AIt's heavy.
Speaker AIt's almost.
Speaker AI said earlier, I think it.
Speaker AIt looks at each of those rocks.
Speaker AIt.
Speaker AIt looks under all the rocks well enough.
Speaker ABut it does make perfect sense that he's an addict.
Speaker AThere's.
Speaker AThat's not that I didn't expect.
Speaker AIt doesn't make it not perfect.
Speaker AIt.
Speaker AHis bifurcation from his wife doesn't stop his love.
Speaker ABut when he finally sees her again and her changes, he can't replicate that love hardly.
Speaker AIt's not that it's gone.
Speaker AHe just can't do it.
Speaker AAnd instead he creates.
Speaker AHe maybe creates this center in honor of her in a way, but also tries to rewrite history.
Speaker AAnd that is a much addicts story.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker ASo Corbett, the director, he.
Speaker AHe doesn't include any World War II moments.
Speaker ALeaves everything from the concentration camps and the war, even Laszlo's trip to America.
Speaker AAll that's unseen.
Speaker ABoy, that's a big choice for a movie of this size.
Speaker ACould have been a monetary choice, but it's a.
Speaker AStill a big choice.
Speaker CI think it works really well.
Speaker CYou know, apropos of nothing going on in the world at large, I am interested in the idea that we have a more complete picture of World War II than we would have had.
Speaker CWe lived through it in some ways.
Speaker CLike you couldn't have known everything that was going on at every moment as it happened.
Speaker CAnd so like at that dinner that he has where he meets the Lawyer who's finally going to help him to get his wife out of Europe.
Speaker CThey are asking these questions like they vaguely know something horrible happened, you know, but do you really know the depths of it?
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CAnd the way that he never really talks about it.
Speaker CLike, Attila doesn't really want to talk about it.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker CWhen he first gets there to the.
Speaker APoint where he's not even European, he's an American.
Speaker CRight.
Speaker CHe's.
Speaker CHe's Catholic.
Speaker CWe're Catholic.
Speaker AThat's right.
Speaker AThat's right.
Speaker CThat's what he says.
Speaker CThat had a.
Speaker CNot to derail in this direction here, but in talking about, obviously it's a film about capitalism, but it's also about America in the same way Mad Men is about America.
Speaker CAgreed.
Speaker CAttila saying, I am Catholic.
Speaker CMiller and sons.
Speaker CThere is no Miller, there are no sons.
Speaker CIt's saying, you can do whatever you want here.
Speaker AHuh?
Speaker CYeah, you can do.
Speaker CBe whoever you want to be.
Speaker AListeners are going to hate me for constantly doing this.
Speaker ABut that's.
Speaker AThat's what Bob Dylan said In his famous 2004 interview in 60 Minutes, you know, when they said, why did you change your name?
Speaker AHe said, because it's America.
Speaker AYou can be anybody you want.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker AI love that notion, though.
Speaker AThis is presented in a sad way most of the time.
Speaker AThe complaints I've seen about the movie, I think are very fair.
Speaker AI can see them.
Speaker AI think they make good points.
Speaker AI don't even know if I fully agree or disagree.
Speaker ASome of them have been that Laszlo's design would have had more impact had they been shown that and not told that or maybe just ending it, you know, without the epilogue.
Speaker AThat's a fair complaint.
Speaker AYou know, should.
Speaker AShould there be more showing and less telling?
Speaker AAnd even if you want her speech to be dissected in two or three.
Speaker CDifferent ways, and I'm gonna say it for the third time, the idea that she says is very, very moving.
Speaker CAfter you've just watched this film about people trying to put a marriage back together after this just unfathomable tragedy.
Speaker CBut it's also about, like, who gets to write history at any given moment.
Speaker CAnd the way that it's like kind of curtly explained, kind of goes hand in hand with like.
Speaker CLike all the newsreel footage that they use and almost like a cut up kind of thing.
Speaker AYeah, they do.
Speaker APennsylvania.
Speaker CYeah.
Speaker CWhen there's this whole section about Pennsylvania is the heart of civilization, you know, like put together by the Pennsylvania Chamber of Commerce or whatever about.
Speaker AThat's a sentence I never thought I'd.
Speaker CHear you say, but they want to make you believe that.
Speaker AYeah, they did.
Speaker CWhoever made that clip.
Speaker COf course, we know now that that's like a Rust Belt idea that has just fallen by the wayside as the 20th century ended.
Speaker CBut if you.
Speaker CIf the war had just ended and you're, like, working at a steel plant, I mean, you're driving Western civilization, you know, and people really believe the summation.
Speaker CBut have you ever.
Speaker CDoes a kid ever encounter that idea now in America?
Speaker ANo.
Speaker CSo who has the authority to say what about whatever, whether it be a state or a work of art, it's like, who gets to talk about it at what time matters more than the thing itself.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AAnd what you say and think about it is your ownership.
Speaker AYour interpretation is your ownership.
Speaker CYeah, Right.
Speaker CAnd it's even presented in the same way that a lot of that footage was that it looked of its time.
Speaker CI thought the aesthetic of the epilogue was genius, the way that it looked like it was shot on VHS.
Speaker CPart of it.
Speaker CAnd, like, very, very 1980s.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker CIt was doing the same thing that those newsreels did earlier.
Speaker AWe could keep going, but we could.
Speaker CTalk about this for three and a.
Speaker AHalf hours or longer.
Speaker AI'm trying to be better about putting some chatter at the end.
Speaker AYou want to mention how MTV screwed the pooch with the Challenge All Stars 5.
Speaker ADo we want to put our complaints here?
Speaker CWhat a shift of gears to.
Speaker CI mean, from the brutalist to the challenge.
Speaker AWow.
Speaker AThis is.
Speaker AThis is.
Speaker AWe don't have anything definite to say about it because we haven't seen it.
Speaker AIt's a challenge All Stars 5, MTV US on it.
Speaker CIt is ironic that they are trying to make it more accessible, and then.
Speaker AThey didn't make it.
Speaker CUs people who watch every season have missed out on the first episode.
Speaker AYeah, yeah.
Speaker ANone of us have watched it.
Speaker ANone of us or our usual crew.
Speaker AI don't.
Speaker AI don't.
Speaker AI haven't talked to td.
Speaker AI don't know if he's.
Speaker CYou want some.
Speaker CSome challenge news?
Speaker ASure.
Speaker CToday.
Speaker CToday is Sunday.
Speaker AYes, it is Sunday.
Speaker AThe second.
Speaker AGroundhog Day.
Speaker CGroundhog Day.
Speaker CSo the scuttlebutt Today is bananas is teasing an announcement which will have been made by the time this podcast is out, but it seems to hint fairly heavily that he might have a meme coin on the way.
Speaker AOh, Jesus Christ.
Speaker ASo I was hoping it was better than that.
Speaker AA fucking meme coin.
Speaker CWould you invest?
Speaker CAnd how much would you invest in a Bananas meme coin?
Speaker AWell, seeing how I usually toe the line right around broke is zero.
Speaker CThey got banks to give you a loan.
Speaker AI think.
Speaker AI think Trump maybe stopped the loans there for a minute.
Speaker ACan I still get one?
Speaker CWhat a hilarious.
Speaker CYou think it's a.
Speaker CA non sequitur to go from brutalist to the challenge until you find out that it is just capitalism run amok all over again.
Speaker AI know, but yeah, Yes.
Speaker AI love that we were able to talk about the capitalism in the brutalist, but there's.
Speaker AThere's more.
Speaker AIt's capitalism and art and ownership and interpretation and nationalism.
Speaker AYeah.
Speaker AThat's it for today.
Speaker AWe're on social media.
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Speaker ABut to be honest, the best way to reach us is the email us at the home side.
Speaker AIf you want to stay private with conversations, that's the best way.
Speaker ABut if you just want to chat, you can leave comments on the site.
Speaker AYou can go and even listen to the podcast on the site.
Speaker AAnd 87 Jetta does that quite a bit.
Speaker AOne of our regular listeners, he goes in comments actually on the site.
Speaker ASo you can just jump in there.
Speaker AIt's through discuss.
Speaker AI think that's the account.
Speaker AI mean, it takes a second to create.
Speaker AThere's nothing to it, but you do that and then you can just leave all kinds of comments across the site as well as different sites like vulture.com uses it as well.
Speaker AWe see those, we respond, we welcome them.
Speaker AWe welcome them and we love it.
Speaker AWe love y'all.
Speaker ASo let us know what you're watching.
Speaker ALet us know what we should watch.
Speaker AIf you have ideas for a podcast of your very own or thoughts you want to share in writing, email us at the alabama take gmail.com.
Speaker Ayou can find it on the alabamatake.com too.
Speaker APitch us some ideas.
Speaker AWe'll be back next Tuesday.
Speaker ASorry for the absence, just a little hiccup last week, but we should be up and running.
Speaker ATalk to everybody later.