Sympathetic Villains in 'House of the Dragon' and Fear in 'The Bear'

[00:00:02] Hey and welcome Let's talk about some TV shall we we'll get into that very soon. What have you been watching? Have you gotten any extra time with some TV with the fourth of July holiday if you're in the States I?

[00:00:17] Know there are listeners in Germany England and Canada. I see you But those with the long weekend What do you do with it does that go toward reading relaxing extra TV time pool time events You've already planned ahead

[00:00:33] Vacation travel anyone at the beach be careful out there luck. You'll get eaten by a shark There's lots of rip currents Water animals and men with beer bellies. Yeah, it can be rough go out there You probably like supporting small businesses unless corporate endeavors

[00:00:55] You can certainly do that with the Alabama take we are DIY It's that's our home site and our production team and our crew if you go to the alavimitate.com

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[00:01:49] If you get a t-shirt or something post a picture of it and tag it tag us in it That's fun to see there are new things in this tour. So go check it out Yeah, fourth of July come and gone

[00:02:01] I reckon that kind of is the midpoint of the year for most of us right for you for your kids It's one last month of summer break for me too those who know me. I know I teach high school It's a blessing and a curse

[00:02:14] Mostly a blessing though Well, we're coming a little later than usual today I wanted to clear the runway for TD and Greg taking on sports released earlier this morning and I wanted to

[00:02:29] Back off my rush of getting ours out. We're usually out on Tuesday morning first thing. This will be more like Tuesday afternoon last week I talked about presumed innocent in this spot and I said I'd want to cover it a little more

[00:02:44] presumed innocent stars Jake Gyllenhaal Ruth Nega Bill camp Peter Stars guard and some other really fine actors across the board It's written and produced by David E. Kelly and he's well known probably to you But if not, he's the writer for some quality TV

[00:03:03] He's like really good at combining maybe some soap opera elements with some high draw by and grid good acting Some elements of a thriller in there, too He was behind the huge HBO summer show big little lies several years ago

[00:03:19] But he's been around forever from like LA Law Allie McBeal Even that HBO Max show Love and Death with Elizabeth Olsen and Jesse Plemons presumed innocence of remake Harrison Ford starred in the original movie back in 1990 and I remember it being good

[00:03:35] But I don't remember little else. It's all based off a book by Scott Turrow Which is supposedly also a good kind of summer read The idea here is a lawyer rusty savage. That's Jake Gyllenhaal's character He's got a colleague named Caroline Palimas. She's played by Renate Rensvih in

[00:03:58] flashbacks because she's been murdered and the show unspools from there I Normally don't get into specifics or Spoilers of television this early in the podcast in this section, but I will hear so if you haven't seen presumed innocence

[00:04:13] If you aren't fully caught up on it, I do recommend it. It's immensely watchable. It's addictive even it's out I think well every Wednesday Digestible fun in a way that you get to speculate about what's going on to the plot

[00:04:27] It's also excellent summer show. It's real soul tree tents well acted well written just interesting all around So you get my recommendation for it now, let's draw a line in the sand for spoilers though Up through episode five the most recent

[00:04:46] With any quality murder mystery, you know every character's on the table I Dare not speculate because I constantly get these things wrong, but everyone Seems like they could have done it. It's possible. I Don't think that's a downgrade for the show at all. I like that

[00:05:04] It's unrealistic, but hey, you know keeps you guessing it keeps you interested This is a summer popcorn show maybe elevated above that So Rusty's this top lawyer and he's accused of murdering his colleague Carolyn whom he has also Had an affair with

[00:05:24] His wife played by Ruth Nega knew about the fair but she wasn't aware of its recent Resurrection where Rusty was attempting to get Carolyn to continue The pair of Rusty and his wife Barbara that that's the Ruth Nega character

[00:05:38] They have two kids a boy and a girl and then Carolyn has an estranged son and an ex-husband. It's kind of weird Rusty has two cohorts who aren't his biggest fans That's one of those guys is the Peter SARS guard character

[00:05:52] And then there's the DA who's recently been Elected out of office or wasn't re-elected So he's been voted out of office. That's Rusty's friend played by Bill Kemp the fantastic bill camp

[00:06:05] The show is really well shot. I like looking at it looks amazing. It's got this hue to it that invites Ideas that everyone has a secret Everyone knows at least one minor thing related to the trouble

[00:06:19] Set in Chicago filmed on location there and adds a very nice that lived in to To the show oddly enough second show Set in Chicago will discuss this week Into the show though. Dr. Kumaji Maybe a little overplayed, but maybe not

[00:06:37] He just cracks me up when he's on screen and the writing does something smart with him When we first see him in the first two or three minutes, he's just hating on Rusty Rusty grates him to know in about the evidence

[00:06:48] And he's like leave me the hell alone But the smart move is that later on he also is real pissy with Tommy The fellow lawyer player played by Peter SARS guard Dr. Kumaji is just perpetually irritated. So Is he irritated because he knows something he

[00:07:06] He did something or does he just get irritated and pissed at lawyers in general bugging Now here's the thing about Carolyn's death She's killed in a way that mimics a previous murder that she actually prosecuted And she put a man away for committing

[00:07:24] It's brutal. She was hogtied which makes you think that a man would have had to do this simply because of the strength involved Although that can go sideways Plus it would have had to be someone who knew the specifics of that murder it seems

[00:07:39] Coincidence would be a little too much in that instance plus carolins Painted as both this kind of confusing and puzzling person. It's not often that a mother with no with no issues Is estranged from her teenage son? And she's concealed evidence in that case

[00:07:57] That matches how she's murdered something weird is happening there And then moving on bill camp. He's Raymond. That's Rusty's former boss current defense attorney friend And I just love actors who are commonly In smaller roles, but absolutely just kill everything that they are in

[00:08:15] Bill camps this kind of guy. Did you did you see the queen's gambit on netflix? It's a great show bill camps the janitor who teaches that young girl how to play chess And he's just real he's like a human and everything he does you believe him

[00:08:31] Here he's annoyed and pissed at at this confusion that he's even taken on the case You know his wife thinks rusty could have done it. She is in that faction of thinking It shakes him it shakes Raymond, but he's not the type to sit and worry too much

[00:08:49] you know camp plays him as sighing and Going around under his breath mumbling Worn out by the whole idea of all this And there's another actor in that vein who has the gravitas needed unless the judge in the case She's played by noma Dumas winnie

[00:09:09] I only really know her from the watcher on netflix and the live action version of little mermaid Believe it or not, but she's always really good the show Once the show goes to trial I expect her ward to be the law if you'll forgive that cliche

[00:09:25] She's already kind of telling tommy In her own way. Hey fuck you. You're not going to do this kind of trickery But after the first two or three episodes presumed innocent does a few things a little weaker than it does at the start

[00:09:37] I'm I'm not a fan of dreams as a device in storytelling So rusty's nightmares are there to make us question his innocence and add a layer to his relationship with carolin I get that but they just don't hit for me And then you add that to ramond's really

[00:09:55] out of Place nightmare where his head explodes It's just too odd for this sort of show. They're not needed We get rusty swimming a lot. That's a detail you probably need as a viewer adds a little color to him Uh, you know

[00:10:12] Is that gonna play a factor or is that just a We're coloring in who he is The direction is always really good framing a lot of these characters in corners or a bit covered or the person talking to them covers a Little bit. I like that stuff

[00:10:27] Perfect illusions that a lot of them are probably lying. Maybe not revealing The dialogue of the show does well to explain How these characters feeling About their position in life. I enjoy that So much more than anything that's really like on the nose

[00:10:43] I'll give some final notes here. Oh as I wrap Some things up with that counselor that psychiatrist. Is she a psychiatrist or psychologist? So if we're to believe that this shows as realistic as it could be, right?

[00:10:55] She's really hounding rusty more so than a real counselor would do We don't hear what Barbara says to her son Kyle when rusty leaves the room by the way, there's that And if you put that with Barbara scrubbing Her son's bike

[00:11:13] And then it's in the trash later. That's something to keep an eye on Tommy Malto 100 had a thing for carolin. It's not said but boy You gotta know that that's why he hates rusty One of the reasons I don't know that he merger but

[00:11:30] More to be found out really good though really good summer show I highly recommend it even if it dips a little in quality, but it's not crazy not crazy dipping quality Enjoy And enjoy what we have for you today in the podcast I love a tape projection

[00:11:51] Here we are all set To talk about the two most obvious shows you can discuss So i'll ask you either you have anything less obvious tv related to mentioned so this is gonna blow The minds of some of our fans right but If you grew up

[00:12:13] And it was like mid 90s, right and like there was to na me and you could see dumb asses punching each other and whatever Well every friday cartoon network is rerunning some of those shows

[00:12:24] This is for the niche crowd out there who share my interests for the very first time on american tv American cable tv the uncensored version of sailor moon is being shown What do i mean by that?

[00:12:36] I mean it still has a pg right here. I immediately regret asking this question. Let's just move on I don't get to say anything no please do i'm just watching a lot of sports. That's all okay wimbledon

[00:12:48] Wimbledon's on yeah, and then the the tour de france is on i tried to get you guys into the oh, yeah the unchained program That's on netflix say more about that. This is your opportunity to say more about that that documentary

[00:13:01] Yeah, when it's it's the same people who made the formula one Season long doc that like got everybody into watching those dumb races on sunday mornings They followed a whole tour de france last year and kind of explained the

[00:13:14] You know when you just dip in and out you're like all its guys seeing who can go the fastest on a bicycle But there's teams and there's strategy amongst different

[00:13:24] Classifications, and they're all fighting for different things and they're like riding through beautiful french in this year italian countryside So i find it to be excellent excellent summer morning viewing is it a one-off or series? It's a series. So they did If you watch this

[00:13:40] Years they came out in june you would see last year's tour de france and there's two you can see the previous years as well How many what it says i think there's eight and they do a very good job since you have a large group of riders

[00:13:52] And storylines i mean they ride every day pretty much for close to a month So there's a few like they're off tomorrow. We're recording on sunday They will have a rest day on monday, but that will be their first they went nine sages in a row

[00:14:06] So nine days rest day and they end up racing for right around 20 days. It's fun to follow It's not like that uh that steven king novel where they're just constantly riding Is that a steven king novel when he wrote as richard bachman?

[00:14:21] He wrote a a novel where you just had to run or walk and you couldn't stop It was like dystopian punishment kind of was that literally titled running man No, is that is that is that or am i mixing that up now? I think you're mixing well

[00:14:34] Maybe I don't remember. I remember just the guy you get shot if you stop for longer than five seconds or so So you had to piss and shit what back in weird ways just like football. Yeah, just like football Just like nascar. Okay

[00:14:49] I always wonder how they pee And these guys are like peeing in bottles and stuff. They just hold it I think they pee on themselves is what i've always understood. Yeah, i've never heard it blatantly explained Anyway speaking of pissing on yourself

[00:15:02] It's it's house of the dragon. We're always a week behind because of recording on sunday as mentioned We're talking at length soon to spoil episode three am i right about this?

[00:15:12] Yeah, I felt as as if it was a another kind of slow episode, but it was more necessary and Didn't feel as long and liked it better than episode two I attribute that to seeing where daemon went and getting him inside those

[00:15:28] Crumbling walls of heron hall. Yeah, what do y'all know about heron hall? I feel like it's cursed Okay, well what role did it play in game of thrones?

[00:15:36] But isn't that where they're taking jamie after he cuts his hand they cut his hand off right and they're gonna make um Gosh, you know, what's her name brie and flake fight the bear and everything Yeah, like it's it's not it's not held by a nice friendly person

[00:15:50] Okay, well in this one it's held by the family strong and larry strong has had it burned down right This is a master of whispers currently he becomes So there were fires but the thing that really damaged it was was agon the conqueror

[00:16:04] Okay, so it's been it's been smashed by a dragon So it was the I had to do some reading because I I thought oh my god They're gonna someone's having a surreal journey through a castle. I have to know everything about this before they really dig in

[00:16:18] It is the largest castle in westeros. I think yes, does that sound right donovan? But it is it was built with such hubris that The area around it cannot support the army that it could garrison

[00:16:31] So it's never been at full strength and the day that the last stone was laid is the day that The conqueror showed up and burned it to bits So It's cursed. Yeah weird stuff's gonna go on there

[00:16:45] Yes in game of thrones what house does it belong to what fam is it in it? I don't remember like what family I wasn't at bolt ramsey boltons father was in charge of it at some point. I take a question during games of thrones

[00:16:58] I'm half remembering this but I feel like it is under like the umbrella of the tullies because it's in the riverland But I might be Might be mistaken there

[00:17:06] Do they ever does anyone ever really hold it or is it just like I have this massive army and need to put them Somewhere temporarily Right. Yeah, I yes I think it's like whose backyard is it in?

[00:17:19] Yeah, this this was an episode that had me with my phone out looking for maps for relevant places But but that's to me. It's a good thing. That's like the fun part of the game

[00:17:28] Yeah, we're back to some world building which hasn't been I think it's worked for the show I'm sure we talked a lot about this in season one, but it's it's more Closed off, you know, you don't immediately have like game of thrones started with A pretty big

[00:17:41] Map and here you're just getting to know characters, but now they're venturing out a little bit more You know what absolutely kind of on that vein what absolutely worked for me right at the start the episode that kind of

[00:17:53] I felt like set up the episode very well for me was the you know, you've got the two You know, they're under the two houses They're under the tullies, but they hate each other and they're kind, you know, like they kind of like

[00:18:04] They're getting into it and a sword is drawn and it smash cuts to the sword and the guys or jump cuts It's not really a smash cut to the sword in one of the belligerent's head and pulls out

[00:18:15] And it shows that oh there's been actually there's been a massive battle here And so I thought that set it up so well, especially for like the lake Okay, like it can be very much like hauls of intrigue hauls of power

[00:18:28] These things only affect like two or three characters, but now it's like we're seeing like this is this is this is Spreading out right like this is this is really starting Absolutely enormous. Yeah, and they started with the

[00:18:41] The effect on you know the whims of the powerful how it affects the small folk with the the rat catchers But yeah now these are would be powerful people and their armies

[00:18:52] Small armies, but you know everybody's getting swept up in this and I love the isn't there the little ribbon of stream cutting through the Yeah, the battlefield like this is what we're fighting over. Yeah

[00:19:03] People who are in our names and then the like the windmill and like the saddest thing to me is like later They're like oh it's the battle to the burnt windmill like that's what y'all fought over, you know Ever directed that did an excellent job

[00:19:18] I was completely pulled in it just set up the whole episode so well for me And people seem to hardly care that it happened outside of that. Yeah

[00:19:27] Yeah, so they're like oh, we're just you know, like I think it is kind of interesting because it does seem like Like reniera does have a okay read on alicent where she's like I don't really neither of them really want this to spiral out of control

[00:19:40] They're kind of taking seriously, but everyone else was like hey, we're just looking for an excuse Right. They do that. Yeah They're gonna kill each other Is daemon's next few episodes going to be reminiscent of trump with covet riding around

[00:19:57] The back seat of the limo waving at everyone I can't wait for that daemon to laboriously climb up like a set of stairs and like stop and wheeze and like It's like i'm back, you know Waved because this is here

[00:20:14] You get this mysterious actress who is a known actress Yes from glow is where I I know her the most but she's I was also in perry mason Yes, and I see he's in a perry mason and she tells him you're gonna die here. I loved it

[00:20:28] I did too. The whole thing was great. We get some magic trees again. Here we go Yeah, right? I liked that they would We're like where he ends up there But they don't like draw attention to it, but it's like it's like no

[00:20:40] Yeah, this place is cursed and like daemon maybe This is your batch, you know like maybe you never should have come here Also on the way to her and hall is sir christian and allison's brother sir Gwane, I think his name is him. We just yeah

[00:20:56] No, it's isn't it funny that it's almost go in but it's really more like dwayne Yeah, so dwayne. Yeah, they're on a trip to her and hall and they almost get caught by Bayla and her dragon and she's doing a little surveying of the areas

[00:21:11] Another great scene that was I That was great I think I may be a simple man But that was like kind of like heart in my throat because it's like, you know the dragon and just the whole time

[00:21:22] As I was like watching and I was like wow like can you imagine if medieval warfare had had to deal with like any kind of aerial stuff? Yeah insane

[00:21:31] Like it was so cool and then afterwards you find out she's like they kind of got away because she was told not to engage So she really just chased them and you know She put the fear god in them. Yeah an amazing amount of restraint to not

[00:21:45] Burn that little stand of woods to the ground Seriously, I'm still enjoying the lake the interpersonal dynamics That there have been some really fun, you know almost in a way It almost kind of reminded me of shogun

[00:21:58] Where most of it and shogun here to say is the superior show Oh, well, yeah, well, we did have the sepaku of the one of the twin lines Right, but you know there there is shogun did such a good job of like having

[00:22:13] You know, there's the interpersonal dynamics something kind of Quote-unquote slow is happening and then they will just have an absolute Bang or of an action scene that absolutely Enhances in undergirds all the interpersonal stuff. We've just seen yeah, you're right

[00:22:29] No, I agree and I mentioned last week that I love the actor who's playing agon So much more so than any other villains. It's it's a more nuanced villain to me my favorite

[00:22:40] Absolute favorite part of this episode is that he clearly just named his meathead friends to the Kingsguard. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, and then took him out to fuck, right? He's like you swine us to cast today Yeah, they're like, oh you think that's real Hey, also

[00:22:59] I mentioned he names larry's The master whisperers despite not having need of one from the previous dad I love that because it was basically larry's old clubfoot. Whatever his name is He was manipulating agon talking about these interpersonal relationships, but you know, he's like basically

[00:23:17] Folks saying you're a little bitch. Yeah And agon's like who's saying that shit? He's like just trust me Yeah, they're saying it sir larry's obviously he's a he's a snake in the grass Right, but like he's like he's so good at picking on people who are like

[00:23:33] Maybe kind of dumb or or naive or something because like anyone else would be like give me some names Many people are saying it Yeah, this is the equivalent of like and a big strong, you know, he came up to me crying and he said sir sir

[00:23:49] You know like he's so good at finding the easily manipulated Well, calm's agon down enough to for him to go paint the town red with But perhaps he's gonna have another day But they go down to this private area whorehouse area, I guess to get a few bj's

[00:24:05] You know while down there why not make fun of my younger brother much larger one-eyed brother while i'm here Did you read new york times review with the the interview? Sorry With the actor that plays amen No, and the way

[00:24:20] And it was like he was talking about his the nude scene specifically And a lot of it was like he's he's like here's the thing like amen is a monster Like he's he's a terrifying monster So like standing up and leaving like that

[00:24:33] His brother's making fun of him and he's like I don't give a shit about you I don't give a shit that you see me Naked I like you're drunk and i'm in control here power move someone else pointed out that he is the

[00:24:48] Second in line to the our next in line to the throne. Yes Yeah, after his brother right if something were tragic were to happen to his much weaker drunk Brother That's constantly picking at him. He becomes is this really the guy that you want to antagonize?

[00:25:04] Seriously also like like not only is he he's bigger than you We've seen that he's a better like Everything yeah, and he has the biggest dragon in play so You might not want to

[00:25:17] You know yeah, it was reminiscent of something i'd forgotten about which was a gone used to be a whorehound Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten all about that the first season

[00:25:27] You'd had to dig him out of the whorehouse that was the intrigue is the only word that's popping into my head With eric and eric they had to go find him after oh, yeah, that's right

[00:25:37] The the after the king died and he's you know, he's in flea bottom somewhere But they have to get him first so they they can you know move before Rene eric in yeah, I amen is painted here is more sensitive

[00:25:50] But tougher smarter more shrewd agon's kind of youthful and stupid But he he's probably more cruel maybe or he's just not as sensitive I think what you said last week about team fathers and you know his reaction to that

[00:26:04] Is that I felt I kept thinking about that and I I think I saw I don't think i'm dreaming this that George r martin weighed in on the way that he's being portrayed and praised the actor

[00:26:15] For kind of what you talked about of being not just pure villain. Yeah, you know, there's layers of immaturity and Kind of wanting to be respected but not knowing how to do it and

[00:26:29] You know, I'm sure we're going to talk about his desire to go to war above all else and how that's being kind of manipulated by different people And that's some nuanced stuff to bring all of that to the table versus

[00:26:39] You know, you drop a situation in front of joffery and you everyone knew what was going to happen You know and there was no humanity to it really at all one of the scenes. I really like not in this episode

[00:26:51] But just with agon is when he's the when the petitioners are coming in and it seems like he like actually wants To like be a good king there. Oh, yeah and like help yeah pull out, you know, he seems kind of dare I say sweet

[00:27:06] Yeah, like there's some money or you need more sheep. He's immature, right? He's been raised in a way that you know to kind of paraphrase con like people are not Ends of themselves their means, right? Like he's right kind of been you know

[00:27:22] But there doesn't seem to be that underlying like maliciousness to him Right, you know, there does seem to be like a desire like like he's a spoiled child But underneath it all you're like maybe you know, like maybe he you know in a different situation

[00:27:37] Would he have been such a bad guy? Yeah, I'll go ahead and give you the the georgia or martin quote that I was referencing here Oh, yeah, um Tom glen carney the actor's name brings agon alive and wades. We have not seen before

[00:27:49] He's more than a villain here. He shows us the king's rage his pain his fears and doubts his humanity Yeah, dare I say that he's sympathetic You know, I think like like every time joffery was on screen

[00:28:01] You were like if I could just get if I could just get out as you know, or ramsey bolton take it Oh, yeah, fucking guys are totally just villains in and out with agon though

[00:28:11] You get a little nuance and you see it again because he does take those kingsguard down for drinks and women You know because he's at first like wait You get a sense of anger from him at first. It's like no you're supposed to be

[00:28:25] My kingsguard in your your vow and then he's and then it cuts to him just having a good time with them Yeah, at least my read on him is he's basically your spoiled rich kid. His nature is not necessarily

[00:28:38] Malicious, but he is also not very strong willed. He's easily swayed Yeah, and so he's a little bit at the company he keeps You know it is one of those situations where it's like had he been Had there been different influences had he not been that possible air

[00:28:55] He might have been an okay guy But as he is he's sympathetic, but he's also extremely dangerous, right? And it makes sense because of his dad was okay. He wasn't terrible It does this part of the show gives us a moment odd maybe strange with olf

[00:29:10] Who's basically the norm peterson from cheers at this bar downstairs Hey, may or may not be viscery's bastard brother. Everybody's like hey, it's off They love this guy when he's like Hey, how are you? Yeah, and I ended up fucking her. You know

[00:29:29] You know that was actually a shot-for-shot remake of the good fellows cope kibana When he walked in I don't know if you guys picked up on that I'll have a lot to say about him. I would imagine this season. That's just a guess

[00:29:42] Let's go across the sea here to dragon stone Raynera decides that this shit's getting dicey. She sends her kins away from Dragonstone to the veil plus that lady there in power at the veil. She wants a dragon

[00:29:55] I think and this is where you see them ship off the four. Is it four or five dragon eggs? It's like four. Yeah, it's a significant amount Yes, and two of them. No, excuse me three of them end up being deniris' dragons

[00:30:09] That's her her eggs, which they don't say it in the show, but I think everybody figures it out I think that was confirmed by the the episode's director as well. Yeah, there you go gets me to The heart and soul maybe it's the conversation between

[00:30:24] Allison and Raynera that ends the episode. I thought it was great same. I thought it had to happen You know, I just love how it was played and the look the actress gives who plays Allison where it's like Oh, shit. That was a prophecy

[00:30:39] And we're fucked because it's too late to do anything now about it And then Emma Darcy's the other actress, you know her eyes are telling you okay We're gonna go to war and a lot of people are gonna die I loved too that with that conversation

[00:30:54] They continued to pick up a thread that had been running Running through and they're not like banging you over the head with it But it's that like these are because these are people who have been with pretty With rulers who have tried to avoid

[00:31:08] Civil war and conflict. Oh you have a bunch of men Who are trained to fight right and that's what they want to do because that's what they've been kind of like, you know Like the turn right like the turnies and all this stuff, right?

[00:31:22] It's like it almost made me think of like there. I read the book black Hawk down once and they Mark Bowden who wrote it interviewed one of the army rangers and he's like He's like I was trying to explain it to my dad

[00:31:34] And it's like it's not that I'm excited that I'm going into battle But this is the thing that I've trained for this is my purpose Like I want this to happen and I kind of felt like that's

[00:31:45] The women realize that the women who are sitting there watching the boys Smash each other realize that in a way that the men don't and I felt like that was a great thread Also running through the conversation explicitly acknowledged but also running through the conversation where it's like

[00:32:00] Like this thing has taken on a life of its own Because there's a lot of people out here who want want a war for what for various reasons And that their ambitions were Maybe they're realizing that they are not puppets

[00:32:14] But in some ways the the beliefs that they had were not founded in reality or were founded in I mean, obviously with The misinterpretation of the the dying words

[00:32:25] But even you know, who's looking out for who and what auto the hand former hand of the king what he's trying to accomplish And you know, this has not all happened For pure reason of fate or whatever that there's a lot of

[00:32:39] Forces at work a lot of dudes who want to fight and a lot of older men who were making power grabs Yeah, absolutely. I mean that seems obvious, but it just that conversation was a great

[00:32:48] That was cathartic in a way that is usually reserved for like joffrey's death or something like Like them getting in the open that oh shit. This was all misunderstanding even though they can't undo it It's it felt good to to have it acknowledged

[00:33:04] It is I did I like yeah like that almost like the runaway train aspect of it Like reminds me like I was reading I read a history a really good history of the 30 years war once And like basically five years i'm making this up. I can't quite remember

[00:33:20] But five ish years or whatever before the war ends Everyone all sides are like we want this war to be over But it kind of had a life of its own. We're like we have these armies to disband, you know, and we have you know

[00:33:32] We've got there's just so much momentum behind it that like everyone agreed That this war is over and yet thousands and thousands and thousands of people were still killed

[00:33:42] Yeah, because it just had a life of its own right and and that kind of seemed like like this situation very good There was a long ride up on nerdist that that basically said the scene was too dumb because someone as smart as reyneira

[00:33:58] Wouldn't risk that kind of thing and someone as smart as alice Would have called the guards immediately and tried to kind of end it all holder hostage whatever you want to say

[00:34:07] I think that you know, it's it's I I completely disagree with that and the reason I disagree with that Is because of the raven that right no that reyneira finally reads Oh, yeah, and and which kind of reminds them that like, you know what?

[00:34:21] We do have this bomb like we do have this still Older bond and we're not quite enemies yet. We're at where a cross-purpose is certainly But we have not yet fully slipped over to enemies. Yes. I would I would completely disagree with that

[00:34:35] Yeah, I do it felt very earned to me And I think maybe a thing that undermines just how earned it is is the fact that this is the second sneak into king's landing

[00:34:46] In only three episodes you couldn't imagine that happening in the original run a game of thrones, you know But in this world it's being allowed the powerful get to talk to each other a lot more But i'm with donovan that for these characters to

[00:34:59] To be able to be civil make sense I thought it was also a good character development thing that I saw an interview with the woman who plays Allison who said you know, so what would your character be doing in modern life and she

[00:35:14] Used the term trad wife. Oh, she'd just be You know perfectly happy doing so then she's saying that knowing that like the way to get to her character was She's gonna go to church Yeah, yes. Yeah, exact like even though all this chaos is happening

[00:35:31] She has an order to her own World to her she has a pretty rigid belief system and is operating inside of that Even if there's some gray area like hooking up with the the new hand of the king for the last several many years

[00:35:45] Which I suppose needs to be talked about because that seems like a house of cards waiting to fall down Oh, absolutely. It's gotta be one of the that that's a time bomb right there. We're the pins and the grenade

[00:35:56] That's right, but I want to kind of bounce off what adam said too about this feeling earned as I liked The undercurrent of like this might be the last time they talk in this way. Oh, yeah, and that

[00:36:08] Really worked for me. In fact, if they don't go to war Maybe very very soon next episode even it kind of then I might say it's a little bit of bullshit because It's like every episode's build build build at this point

[00:36:22] They probably need to do something something needs to happen It is funny that people are criticizing the first three episodes for being slower when Last season was like such big leaps in time and now the it's actually letting it kind of marinate and stew into something

[00:36:37] People are uh ready for something to pop. I get it They could have babies head off. What more do you want people? And then soda back on And we got quite horrifically quite horrifically You know people are saying action needs to happen

[00:36:53] You give me a matt smith in that castle for a good 45 minutes of this episode just having a surreal experience. I mean People on saying your grace maybe like very very slight TARDIS noises happening in the background

[00:37:09] I'm not mad. Okay. Well, let's take a break come out on the other side to talk About a lot of the first half of the bear season three Much like every podcast in your feed probably we're gonna talk about the bear season three

[00:37:26] We'll do probably the first what four episodes. Is that where we are? I'm up to four. Yeah I haven't hit number five yet. All right. So almost the first half. It's all on hulu though I do know anyone who doesn't watch the bear not really

[00:37:40] Not only not only is it like the people like even in just like the last week that I know I'm like, oh, I'm gonna talk to them about the bear It's everywhere from people that are like 10 years younger to me to like 18 years older than me

[00:37:53] You know, like there's such a wide range of people who are really into it Which is probably a good thing if you're making a tv show, but I just thought that was really interesting

[00:38:02] Yeah, I've noticed online that people either love the season or hate it for this one season three It's and I do speculate that thinking it's bad is probably just backlash

[00:38:13] Yeah, I think there I think there has been like backlash coming for a while where it was like the first two It's like oh and now people are like, oh, I'm not that great But honestly if you're if you need to go live that life

[00:38:25] Go live that life. I will be watching episodes of the bear We talked briefly about episode one titled tomorrow, you know, I did you know I think I said last week episode one was truly pushing the boundaries of what could be described as a comedy

[00:38:39] I'm very pleased to announce that episodes two three and four while still very serious and doing a really good job Of digging into some of our characters emotional stuff had me cracking up the whole time

[00:38:51] Yeah, and there was and and there are even more funny moments beyond that too. Oh, I'm sure I forget that the or maybe I never knew that the score is a Trent resner and Atticus Rawls. We were literally just talking about that

[00:39:04] Okay, we're off screen at adam was like I love the ambient It sounded like Trent resner and I was like I didn't really pay attention because I was trying to figure out how the timeline was working

[00:39:13] For everything. Yeah, and he looked up and I'm like wow, of course like what a slam dunk Let's get into episode two title next not to sound too self-important, but I related to calm in this one. Yeah

[00:39:27] Running the site and his restaurant have similarities that clicked with me Constantly evolved through passion and creativity and and since he's also the youngest in a his family is much More dysfunctional. Mine was not quite really at all and disastrous

[00:39:45] His but I get the need to not only have control But also shake it up to see if you can control it. Hmm that makes so much sense to me as a just on a human human level

[00:39:57] That's a good. You know what Blaine? I don't think I would have thought of that if you hadn't said that And I feel like that's what he's doing right. It's I don't have control of what's happened

[00:40:06] Yeah, I really the whole like we're gonna mix it up every like the menu thing to me is very clearly insane Right you're gonna change the menu every day

[00:40:15] But like now that you've kind of can help me think about it in the context of like I was stuck in the freezer And like my my relationship with Richie is out of control obviously Claire is out of control His relationship with his family his mom and

[00:40:33] His brother who has since died. Yes. He really only has sugar that he can count on in his family Which was another thing that I liked about the first episode is I felt they really underscored how much they Love each other like how much sugar loves him

[00:40:50] And I saw like she has like a fear of like losing him But also she was like you have to go off like you you have to you have to go and do your thing Which I thought is that's that's very powerful, right? Like that's that's love, right?

[00:41:06] If you're like I love this person so much that I can't ruin their life by making them stick around with mine It is I do feel that episode two was a little bit of like the two previous seasons

[00:41:18] We get that their life is chaos and the restaurant especially is other than bringing the new menu new menu idea to the Episode it was a little more the same but just I suppose they were reminding us all of what it's like

[00:41:32] Definitely, which they were they were dropping us back in the chaos And I thought like this is where like the humor really started to go off too because like like harms non-negotiables Are like stick to tradition always be involved like He's got like mutually exclusive stuff

[00:41:48] And then everything was richy ebon Mosbacheri I was getting mixed up He was doing such a great job of just like littered like every like there was a there was a point Where like poor said has been in the middle of it and and he got rich

[00:42:01] He's like let's get back to work and the car was like great idea. It was like no then fuck you. Let's not Anything to be to negate the other guy Just like I just thought that like yes, it was it was sort of a room. I'm like, yeah

[00:42:17] It's chaos and yelling but it really didn't work for me To have like those two actors playing and like they get to the part where they Keep screaming at the same time stop saying what I'm saying to each other and then like introducing the facts back into

[00:42:33] As you I have a very real soft spot, you know facts like everyone's so angry and he makes me scared like It's just it was really good too because So the other thing I actually really liked was obviously there's been this huge explosion Then everybody else

[00:42:52] Including marcus who's just lost his mother is also kind of coming back in and trying to figure out how they're gonna do this You know where they're gonna fit in. Yes

[00:43:02] Completely tangential, but does it interest you to see how the actor plays richie is going to be in the mcu as one of the Fantastic four. Yeah, he's read richards, right? No, we're mixing him up or is he the thing? He's the thing

[00:43:15] He's the that's right. It's Pedro Pascal is oh Pedro Pascal is gonna be read richards Which is wild too. Yeah, you know what? I like I like that cat I like that casting enough that I might like actually see it Yeah, I know

[00:43:28] Yeah, the cast alone almost has me I don't know speaking of marcus though episode three doors This was uh marcus at his mom's funeral. It's just devastating man I am set up to like the character of marcus But one of the things that I felt worked

[00:43:45] Really well coming off of sees that second episode. I don't know if I'm gonna articulate this well But this is kind of how I felt about it is there was a lot of anger about what carmie said to various people

[00:43:58] To richie to claire. You didn't know it was claire, but you know she heard it and the anger You know he calls richie to apologize But you know the and so there's like there's like that

[00:44:08] Sharing your heart is scary and difficult because like he was saying like the real anger He felt in that moment and then this one turned the page and it made me think about like how sharing your heart is so powerful

[00:44:20] You know just with marcus talking about how he always felt loved how he always felt listened to how he always felt You know and it like there's there's there's and it just made me think too

[00:44:31] And it kind of you know the restaurant in so many ways is is the different people sharing their heart to without necessarily Saying it and I mean so I just thought like like how like a powerful and emotional and crazy thing that can be

[00:44:45] Also the joke where she's like she let me run for robocop. That was pretty good He's the the line that tore me into at least two pieces was when he said having someone

[00:44:55] Really pay attention to you was really special. Yeah, and to hear that from a kid's point of view Was moving the rest of the episode's kind of the month-long view of the restaurant a lot of tension of the non-negotiables

[00:45:10] Feels like there was a lot, you know between that and the money was that the episode I'm trying this is the so this is my only complaint and this is not the bear's fault I kind of wish they hadn't dumped them all at once. Oh, yeah

[00:45:23] I wish I was doing this weekly I think though that this season felt like if you're gonna do it it would have been this one because like episode three Two and three feel like you need to go ahead and get those under your belt pretty quickly

[00:45:38] Yeah, they flow into each other really well was it was episode two? I'm just thinking about like the you know because it's about the money and the ingredients They're using but was it was an episode two where we had the really great joke with you know

[00:45:50] They're buying the mushrooms and it's like they're there are well, and he's like they're dystopian mushrooms Oh, no, no, it's the butter of the or William or butter. Yeah, whatever it was like it's dystopian butter He's like what are you talking about? Yeah, I've never heard that either

[00:46:05] It's Orwell Vermont Maybe left so much It's or welly inch. It's dystopian How how much better than butter get that's my question I feel the same way about lake if I see like a 300 bottle dollar bottle of wine or something

[00:46:22] I'm like, I've had a $10 bottle of wine. I've had a 30 bottle of wine I don't believe there's that much difference past 30 dollars. Can't be Episode four is violet which opens with the new apartment for sydney. Yes as well as

[00:46:40] I think this is the episode that where claire tells the story of the girl who falls to the glass table Yes, and she gives almost like the one of one of the thesis statements probably of the season is that she hadn't felt it yet

[00:46:54] The girl starts laughing. She was like she had it hadn't hurt yet It also this episode also gave me my second breakdown of the season which was much more sub dude

[00:47:04] It's just cousin hanging out with his daughter again. Oh, that was great. I mean he he he and that little girl really have Like chemistry where they sure they're doing a like they totally sell me as a dad

[00:47:17] And it's so real and like cut so this and like this is kind of a joke too Like it's been the ongoing joke where like cousins using like like syrupy He's like therapy language

[00:47:29] He's like, you know like he gives it one point where he's like yelling at karmie's like you're not integrated You come talk to me when you're integrated

[00:47:36] Yes, but then I like that I love that like the flip side of the funny there is that like it's because he's really trying Like he's really trying to to to help raise his daughter to be

[00:47:47] You know the best and happiest persons you can and he's really trying to help his daughter in a situation that is obviously Froton complicated and emotional for him too Oh, yeah, and when she asked what she should call her future stepdad who happens to be josh hart hartnett

[00:48:05] That's yeah That man that got me what should I call him and it's it's a it's a quick moment because he's just like whatever you want Yeah, that was so sweet. But yeah, ebb and moss bacher is

[00:48:16] Man, he's his acting is off the charts. I think he gets better every season So grounded agreed the acting so good He is really like he got I don't know like he does a great job of being like

[00:48:29] I'm kind of a blue I've got a blue collar mentality But I kind of like I'm I'm also, you know, like I also I see the value in what we're doing but just like sometimes he'll just Like he'll be he'll he'll be like you can be incredibly eloquent

[00:48:43] And then like go to that to the little like fuck you. No fuck you carmie. No fuck you Another little another little thing that made me laugh when he is talking to you know the The josh hartnett's character the man is wearing his franke. They have franke

[00:48:59] Who's apparently a very close talker, right? Yes, he's happening there But as soon as his kid gets in there as soon as this kid gets in the house Taylor Swift starts playing While they're talking out on the stoop. It's a Taylor Swift song playing

[00:49:14] She's also laying under a era's blanket. Yeah That was that because that was one of my favorite jokes of season two where he's like, I love you honey I love Taylor Swift too. I just need a little break So true accurate man

[00:49:30] It was this episode where I realized that these characters all of them every single one of them are all Operating out of fear. Yeah, it's like everybody in the world, right? It's an evolutionary thing It's it's it's such they're all such on a knife like watching this

[00:49:46] I was like saying out loud, you know, I was watching it with Beth and I'm saying out loud like I've Like I can't imagine Can you imagine a situation where you have to be? Perfect every night seven days a week

[00:50:00] 52 days a week so you can't make a mistake And you have to be operating in that caliber and everyone is rad like they're on the knife sense They're rattled, you know carmie's carms acting out of fear city doesn't know what she's getting into sugars

[00:50:14] Worried about the money and her baby and her baby. She's worried to death about about the baby Yeah, and rich he's scared of kind of losing his daughter in a way even just the yeah that some of the other cooks, you know

[00:50:26] We're they're like am I you know, there's the fear of like am I up to this can actually do this You know and even with like like said is nicer than carmie has not that carmie's a jerk

[00:50:36] But there's still just like yeah, there's that there's that they're doing such a good job of like conveying like that Fear right? Yeah, even a casual aid every second

[00:50:45] It seems as though even a casual viewer you could name a character and they could tell you what what's the fear that's driving them Which is yes to me a human thing and fascinating Interestingly enough Marcus seems like the only one who's not afraid not as much

[00:51:00] He's he's made mistakes, but he doesn't seem quite as afraid He's not as driven by fear, but I think he is afraid going forward in life without his mom Oh, of course. Yeah, which I think is they set up really well

[00:51:12] You know when I thought it was set up really well like kind of his motivation when he You know it says to carm like I was here when she died and carms like I know I'm so sorry

[00:51:22] And he's like no no I think I think she wanted it that way You know I think she wanted me to be here and so that you know the fear there for him is

[00:51:30] Maybe it's maybe we're feeling it more than he does but like what happens if this doesn't work out Then what does he have? Yes I won't say more. I've watched a few more

[00:51:41] Say the only the only you know my other if they could be so overused but just you add a fact to a scene It's so good Well, like when it's a conversation for next week actually like when he picks up the

[00:51:53] He comes to the back and he picks up like the bowls of broth and he's like comes out the table And he's like this is a broth from chef carms mind And I'm pouring it in front of you and he does so

[00:52:06] And then he takes it back to the kitchen and carms like this is a restaurant We serve food and we're just like never happened again never happened again He's like he comes up and he's like come on buddy. You know you're not up for that

[00:52:16] Like, you know, you're not up for that hilarious that he didn't give them the food Like the whole and this is this was another thing where I actually I thought the directing was really great because they they're right on the back of him

[00:52:31] They can you know, you're like, oh my god, he's gonna drop it, but he's carrying it so carefully You see him make like this little stop and turn. He's being so careful So yeah, this is where the these episodes definitely definitely serious

[00:52:49] Definitely a lot of like in not a like hopefully not a clichéd way But they also rediscovered the comedy for me too. Oh, yeah And but that you know, it's it's so knife-sedge too, right?

[00:53:01] Because they'll you know so much some of the comedy is stressed. I am kind of like fac and you know in this like Wow, everyone's angry and you know that makes me scared. Yeah Like it's human. It's good. It's a very human show

[00:53:15] Extremely sometimes the restaurant and food stuffs neither hearing or there It's just the you know, that's just your that's just your pressure cooker. Yeah, that's all you need Yeah, well, that's what we have for you this week

[00:53:27] You can show your support to the podcast and the rest of the album a take by visiting this site and either shopping online Store or making a donation if you want for adam for donovan will be flying our dragons off

[00:53:39] To to our respective kitchens until next week. My dragon doesn't have a rider See y'all