The Danger of Customs in 'Shōgun'; Plus, 'Manhunt' and '3 Body Problem'

[00:00:00] Hey brothers and sisters, welcome to Taking It Down.

[00:00:03] I'm going to be with you in just a second but here's a note from our friends whom I

[00:00:08] know many of you will enjoy over at Polyphonic Press.

[00:00:11] Hey, this is Jeremy from Polyphonic Press.

[00:00:15] Along with my co-host and best friend, John Van Dyke, we are exploring classic albums

[00:00:20] completely at random.

[00:00:22] At the top of each show, we have no idea what album we're going to be listening

[00:00:25] to.

[00:00:27] We have the patented random album generator to give us an album.

[00:00:31] Sometimes it's an album we're very familiar with and sometimes it's an artist we have

[00:00:34] never heard of.

[00:00:35] Either way, it gives us a chance to really listen to these classic releases and gives

[00:00:40] us insights that we may never have thought of before.

[00:00:42] For something to come out of them, maybe he needed the other Beatles in the room

[00:00:46] at that time.

[00:00:47] Well, I think so.

[00:00:49] And I think if you watch that Peter Jackson documentary from a few years ago about

[00:00:57] the Let It Be sessions, I think it was kind of the writing was on the wall.

[00:01:02] I mean, they were breaking up.

[00:01:04] John Lennon didn't sign the papers to officially dissolve the Beatles until 1974.

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[00:01:32] All right, how's it going?

[00:01:34] Our episode today is also sponsored by Kodachrome Gardens in Florence, Alabama.

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[00:02:16] Yes, so still trying on this new shirt of formatting the podcast.

[00:02:21] I'm liking it.

[00:02:23] You guys like it.

[00:02:24] Talk to me.

[00:02:25] You can talk out loud.

[00:02:27] No one can hear you.

[00:02:28] I can hear you.

[00:02:29] Oh, what's going on?

[00:02:31] We've got Taking It Down On Video Wednesday evenings, 5.30.

[00:02:37] You can watch it anytime, but that's when they premiere.

[00:02:40] Fun bit of segments coming up on Taking It Down On Video the next few weeks.

[00:02:45] We're going to tackle Twin Peaks and its relevance, its importance, its influence,

[00:02:53] and just where we were when we saw it.

[00:02:55] That's going to be me and Raz on Taking It Down On Video.

[00:02:58] Join us.

[00:02:59] You know, I've still been watching The Gentleman on Netflix.

[00:03:01] That's going to appeal to a lot of you.

[00:03:02] I'm still on board with it because it's so entertaining.

[00:03:05] Entertainment is all you can ask for, I think, especially with Netflix.

[00:03:09] That's what you want.

[00:03:10] Continuing with TV, I've got some spoiler free thoughts on two shows early in their runs.

[00:03:16] Friends, if you're able to withstand sloppy dialogue,

[00:03:20] a miscast actor or two, or unnecessary and off-times jarring time jumps, then

[00:03:27] Manhunt on Ample TV will do for you, especially if you need some historical recounting in your life.

[00:03:33] The series is based on the work of James L. Swanson, not to be confused with Ron,

[00:03:38] who wrote about the work it took to track down John Wilkes Booth.

[00:03:41] And if you're like me and you know the assassination of Lincoln

[00:03:45] and maybe little else that followed, including the idea that President Johnson who followed

[00:03:50] was a Southerner who was soon impeached though saved by one Senate vote,

[00:03:55] if that's the kind of thing you didn't know about or you're interested in seeing on screen,

[00:04:00] then you know this series will work.

[00:04:03] It does shine a lot of contextual light to the aftermath of Lincoln's assassination.

[00:04:08] Usually the history books just tell you that and put a period on in next chapter.

[00:04:13] But damn if it doesn't feel like a really expensive, really nice 1985 ABC mini series,

[00:04:19] with all the good and the bad that entails.

[00:04:21] Manhunt really makes me miss shows like Deadwood where craft and manner was taken into the

[00:04:26] making of it, especially in an attempt to separate the dialogue from our modern lingo.

[00:04:31] At times it feels like this show wasn't taken as seriously as it could have been,

[00:04:34] because of the addiction of these characters, it just doesn't.

[00:04:37] It feels incongruent.

[00:04:39] And then especially in the first episode, there's this question that hovers above it.

[00:04:43] On what sort of show it even wants to be?

[00:04:45] Does it want to be a procedural, a mystery?

[00:04:48] Are we supposed to pull for John Wilkes Booth?

[00:04:50] I think that settles down in the second episode some.

[00:04:52] However, there's good acting.

[00:04:55] There's perfect, just delicious set designs and kudos for it too.

[00:04:59] For the show, just sitting you right down in the fray and reminding you of the story

[00:05:04] after the story.

[00:05:06] Being a Southerner, I always wonder what the population was thinking individually

[00:05:12] on a more Microsoft bit level during the Civil War.

[00:05:16] I really wish Manhunt could get into that.

[00:05:18] We get small, small glimpses of it here and there.

[00:05:22] Definitely something I'd like to see portrayed on screen.

[00:05:25] You take for granted from history books and your broad knowledge of what happened that,

[00:05:31] well once the Civil War ended, that was that.

[00:05:33] We wiped our hands clean and went on about our day.

[00:05:36] Reconstruction began and there were problems there.

[00:05:39] Jim Crow laws were implemented, so we shifted to a new set of problems.

[00:05:43] But not quite.

[00:05:44] I appreciate Manhunt bringing that to my attention.

[00:05:47] I also started the Netflix show Three Body Problem, perhaps best known as the follow-up for

[00:05:53] Benny Off and Wise.

[00:05:54] You know their names from being the head writers and showrunners for the Game of Thrones there.

[00:05:58] Three Body Problem is based off a Chinese author's trilogy where

[00:06:02] he blends some sci-fi with the very real cultural revolution of the 1960s China and more.

[00:06:07] There's more going on than just those things, but I don't want to spoil anything.

[00:06:11] I've got the first episode under my belt and as interesting as it gets with the first episode,

[00:06:16] I hope that we may cover it here on The New Year Future because it is that intriguing.

[00:06:21] Once again, with this series in particular, I've been my own Netflix's content for our

[00:06:27] strategy of just dropping every episode of the series all at once.

[00:06:31] What a waste to do that.

[00:06:33] Even the showrunners seem to recognize the idiocy of that as they acknowledge it

[00:06:37] with a trailer at the end of the opening episode.

[00:06:39] You never see that with Netflix where they say, this season on blah blah blah and they do it

[00:06:44] here.

[00:06:44] They realize that very intelligently realize that people don't watch eight episodes in one sitting.

[00:06:52] No one does that.

[00:06:53] I think that's an urban legend.

[00:06:55] Who the hell has that much time?

[00:06:57] No one does that.

[00:06:58] Don't don't give me all eight episodes.

[00:07:00] I don't want that.

[00:07:00] It takes away from the significance of episodes when you do that.

[00:07:06] Each episode has a story to tell within itself.

[00:07:10] That's just where Netflix has faltered so horribly.

[00:07:13] It's just content instead of quality and what a shame.

[00:07:17] Being on film wise, I know what to do with books that seem really hard to film and put on screen.

[00:07:24] From my understanding, this series of books is supposed to be pretty rough as far as trying

[00:07:30] to get it on screen.

[00:07:32] There were a couple of odd character relationships I think, but otherwise I'm really interested

[00:07:38] to continue this one.

[00:07:40] Again, we might mention it on the show in the future.

[00:07:43] Yes, there you are.

[00:07:45] Let's get into this week's episode.

[00:07:47] I love a tape projection.

[00:07:55] We're sort of kicking it old school.

[00:07:57] I'd be curious amongst whom amongst our devoted fan pays of hundreds of thousands.

[00:08:04] Go back that far where it was just me and Adam.

[00:08:07] This is it.

[00:08:08] It's just me and you today.

[00:08:10] We're back.

[00:08:11] Back where it all started.

[00:08:12] Probably where it'll end for us.

[00:08:16] No, Donovan, he's still out gallivetting across New England.

[00:08:19] I think he's hanging out with the Yale basketball team.

[00:08:22] Am I right about that?

[00:08:23] That sounds right.

[00:08:24] Natalie tendered her resignation last night, which is not quite true.

[00:08:29] She said she would join us.

[00:08:30] She's stepping back to a part-time status, I think.

[00:08:33] Yeah, she's going back to part-time.

[00:08:34] She said she really wants in on some challenge talk and probably some other things.

[00:08:38] She'll get roped in.

[00:08:39] So hello to everyone.

[00:08:40] We're here and our focus is going to continue to be the FX Hulu show,

[00:08:45] show gun, which is worth it.

[00:08:47] We determined that last week we won't spoil a thing until we get past our short talk on this

[00:08:52] set of questions.

[00:08:53] Do we recommend it?

[00:08:54] Do we recommend it with any qualifications or is it a hold in hell no completely?

[00:08:59] Last week, Adam and Natalie and I answered this.

[00:09:02] We thoroughly recommended it.

[00:09:04] Are there any amends you want to make to that or anything that's no spoilers that you feel like

[00:09:10] listeners would want to know about show gun?

[00:09:13] Pretty much everything we said last week continues to hold up.

[00:09:17] It's just a very good, interesting atmosphere, great character driven drama.

[00:09:24] They're going to wave some swords around.

[00:09:25] It's going to be great.

[00:09:26] Not going to recant your recommendation then.

[00:09:28] No, no.

[00:09:29] Wonderful.

[00:09:30] Wonder me either.

[00:09:31] In fact, I'm falling more in love with this show week by week.

[00:09:35] If you haven't started watching it, I say watch it.

[00:09:38] I really do think it might end up being one of the best shows of the year.

[00:09:41] You never know in March, but it could be.

[00:09:44] I think they start are there larger trends to TV like when the prestige shows come out?

[00:09:51] This year is going to be weird, but because of the strike.

[00:09:54] Right.

[00:09:55] But do they I wonder if they sit around and think well people are more likely to be inside.

[00:10:00] January, February, March in a lot of the country still isn't spring quite yet.

[00:10:06] So let's roll some of these guys out because it seems like there's a lot of stuff that we

[00:10:10] really enjoy that starts the year as I'm thinking back to as you said,

[00:10:15] it just being the two of us, some heavy hitters put out in the first part of the year generally.

[00:10:20] True detective.

[00:10:21] Yeah.

[00:10:21] Which we covered and that was the way of TV when we grew up and that's something

[00:10:26] we covered on taking it down on video last Wednesday with Raz,

[00:10:30] which is TV used to be three or four channels and you watched from September to May.

[00:10:37] The school year basically yeah.

[00:10:39] Your school year that's exactly what it followed oddly enough because that's when you're the

[00:10:42] home the most you're not going to be home much in summer you're taking your vacation.

[00:10:46] So they have to run the reruns then.

[00:10:48] Yeah, exactly.

[00:10:49] So I don't know if it follows that specific of a trend, but you may be onto something there.

[00:10:55] Well, and now we have the new Game of Thrones coming out.

[00:10:58] They announced the release date right is mid June, June 15th, 16th, something like that.

[00:11:03] June.

[00:11:04] June something you're right.

[00:11:05] But that would be arguably the biggest like water cooler show of the year at least based

[00:11:13] on track record and they're just putting it right in the middle of what would have

[00:11:16] been No Man's Land.

[00:11:17] HBO don't give an F.

[00:11:18] No.

[00:11:19] And like you said, the strike possibly not a normal year.

[00:11:24] It's true.

[00:11:24] Well, we'll unpack this fifth episode of the series show gun titled broken to the fist.

[00:11:30] This is your spoiler warning.

[00:11:31] Thanks for joining us.

[00:11:32] Continue with us if you've seen broken to the fist that broken to the fist,

[00:11:38] the fifth episode of show gun in it the action of an oncoming war.

[00:11:43] Inevitable war.

[00:11:45] It's because of the repercussions of Torinaga sun's use of the cannons on

[00:11:50] chosen, killing him brutally.

[00:11:52] But that oncoming war is going to be a little slower than I expected.

[00:11:56] We're going to focus a lot more on the return of the invincible warrior and the drama with the

[00:12:03] onions house, especially when it comes to a dead bird.

[00:12:08] One thing that makes an excellent series to me is when an episode maintains

[00:12:13] the narrative and theme of an entire arc of the entire 10 episodes.

[00:12:18] And yet each episode in and of itself has a story and individual theme to share or to discuss or

[00:12:25] analyze. This week, I really question at what point do we tolerate the customs of our neighbors?

[00:12:31] If those customs turned out to be morally repugnant to us.

[00:12:34] And this is the first episode that seems to happen in a space that allows for that kind

[00:12:40] of discussion. It's been so and this is not a knock against the show at all.

[00:12:44] It's been moving at such a clip. The scenery has been changing and we've been getting to know people

[00:12:50] and it's a big world. This one was kind of a set piece episode.

[00:12:54] Yeah. You know, you have his house. You have a few other locations around this village

[00:12:59] that all the action takes place in and it allows for with characters that we now know better

[00:13:05] that kind of discussion.

[00:13:07] Well, let's back it up. We'll kind of go in chronological order in a way.

[00:13:11] So early in the episode, we get word that Lady Ocheba is being returned to Osaka and the Council

[00:13:17] of Regents meet again to determine what to do about Torinanga's impeachment because

[00:13:21] they're down a man now. All right? There's this detail of the regents trying to determine whom

[00:13:25] to elect or replace the retired or retired. That probably isn't the right word Torinanga.

[00:13:31] I'll admit that seems like a minor difficulty considering how easy it is that they find

[00:13:36] to say, hey, this guy or gal needs to die or they don't really want to adhere to the

[00:13:40] rules of the deceased leader anyway. So I find it odd that they're just like really sticking to this.

[00:13:46] I was surprised that I don't say let's just do it before leapfrog the idea that there

[00:13:51] aren't five of them.

[00:13:52] I wonder if it's that if someone is in a position above them, like their deceased leader would

[00:13:59] have been, they are extremely strict in following that but then kind of dismissive of life

[00:14:06] below them.

[00:14:07] I got you.

[00:14:08] And that makes sense.

[00:14:09] And this episode does a good job of painting the picture of them being adherents to rules and

[00:14:14] customs honestly. I saw I really should take that back.

[00:14:18] Right, but it is funny that he's able to if not checkmate at least put them in check and

[00:14:23] force them into a reactive position by just resigning. It's a guy that they really want him

[00:14:31] dead but he's been clever and outmaneuvered him through this.

[00:14:35] Like I agree with what you're saying. It does seem like a very

[00:14:39] silly thing and they all seem frustrated by the custom but are refusing to break it.

[00:14:45] Yeah, while awaiting this war to erupt there's a smaller war contained in the house of the

[00:14:50] Anjan that's almost all he was called in this episode. He wasn't John Blackthorn at all.

[00:14:55] Our Englishman is who I'm talking about. It's a war in his home with multiple sides

[00:15:01] about four sided war there. You know I question why in the hell he hung a pheasant outdoors for so long

[00:15:09] but apparently did you research this by the way?

[00:15:11] I did.

[00:15:13] If you have read anyone talk about how or their memories from reading the book

[00:15:20] which neither of us have done but apparently this scene in the book is

[00:15:25] like laugh out loud kind of material.

[00:15:28] It would kind of was here at times.

[00:15:30] Oh yeah played it. I think this is a funnier Natalie said this last week that

[00:15:34] it's possible this would be funnier if you could speak Japanese but it's already pretty funny given

[00:15:41] the subject matter.

[00:15:42] Yeah, no it's got its moments. Blackthorn's reaction to being excited about hanging a

[00:15:48] dead bird outside and telling them you know if you touch it you'll die in his broken

[00:15:53] Japanese and he was just smiling and like oh it's gonna be so good.

[00:15:56] And not realizing he was putting a death sentence on someone.

[00:16:02] I mean do we want to get into that?

[00:16:03] We will.

[00:16:04] That's the...

[00:16:04] Oh just to add to what I was going to say apparently many cookbooks from years ago

[00:16:11] recommend hanging such birds in the open air with their feathers intact for seven to ten days.

[00:16:15] Seven to ten days.

[00:16:17] This is true apparently some oils build up and make the bird very tender

[00:16:22] and the air's gotta be around the 50 to 55 degree mark so you can just do it in Arizona.

[00:16:27] Okay, right that would be horrible but yeah I think it's...

[00:16:32] I've got this Esquire article picked up or pulled up here.

[00:16:36] Well they say according to field and stream it's normal to let pheasants mature untouched

[00:16:41] for a couple days in conditions of 40 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:16:45] That's about right yeah that's what I read and they said it up to seven to ten can even be fine

[00:16:49] which blows my mind.

[00:16:51] That sounds disgusting.

[00:16:52] That's just like a putrification process right?

[00:16:54] Yeah well there's like a yes it's rigor mortis is involved and there's oils that

[00:17:00] just make the bird less gamey apparently.

[00:17:02] It's supposed to make it good.

[00:17:04] I'll let you discover that.

[00:17:05] No I won't.

[00:17:07] I'll read the book if you eat the the week old pheasant how about that?

[00:17:11] I want to read the book now.

[00:17:12] How do you do?

[00:17:13] My father-in-law was talking to me yesterday about it and he said the book's fantastic.

[00:17:17] That's have you encountered anyone who read the books and was excited to watch it originally?

[00:17:23] Anybody at that age?

[00:17:24] Yeah my father-in-law.

[00:17:25] The 80 yeah he so he had read it before.

[00:17:27] He had read the book.

[00:17:29] He had read the book was so excited about the mini series and he thought it was really good

[00:17:32] and he said there's a couple of actors in it that just are excellent.

[00:17:35] The Torinaga guy in the original mini series is supposed to be good.

[00:17:39] Well he's like a Kurosawa mainstay.

[00:17:42] Oh really?

[00:17:43] Yeah he's one of the greatest Japanese actors of this generation.

[00:17:46] Yeah now he's watching this week to week and my father-in-law is one of these guys who

[00:17:50] tends to let episodes build up so he can just kind of he just wants to watch them

[00:17:54] night after night.

[00:17:56] But he's in.

[00:17:56] Yeah he's in with it.

[00:17:58] Speaking of funny though the shift from funny to like intriguing to then just terrifying

[00:18:03] between Blackthorn and Buntaro the returned husband the great warrior.

[00:18:08] When you see Blackthorn drink that entire cup of sake and you wonder if her husband's

[00:18:14] going to match him or is he going to be if his liver is strong enough as Blackthorn's

[00:18:21] and then you get the look on the faces of Makiro and Fuji as the Anjin porous the drink

[00:18:28] that just added to the humor but there was just such a subtle and gentle shift into oh

[00:18:34] shit.

[00:18:35] Yeah terrifying.

[00:18:36] Yeah when he breezes the damn arrow by his wife's head not once but twice.

[00:18:40] I think we've all unfortunately been around people who were had possibly over indulged

[00:18:45] and you're a little afraid of what they might do.

[00:18:48] Would you like to hear my best story on that topic?

[00:18:50] Yeah sure why not.

[00:18:51] Yep Raz and I Raz co-host of Taking It Down on Video.

[00:18:55] Raz and I were in a very it's not even you can't say dive bar it's a beer joint

[00:19:00] a straight up beer joint in the backwoods of Mississippi.

[00:19:02] We're in there in the middle of the day having a couple beers shooting some pool

[00:19:06] and a guy comes in totally messed out completely messed out and he goes out to his

[00:19:11] truck and comes back in with a gun a fucking rifle and the bartender is not the owner who's

[00:19:19] usually in charge but it's a lady she's like you can't bring that in here and Raz looks at me

[00:19:24] and he goes we're about to go.

[00:19:26] I was like yeah we're leaving we're not getting shot in this fucking beer joint

[00:19:29] he wanted to clean his gun there at the beer joint but yeah so very much a kind of a moment

[00:19:36] like that but yeah he's he's fucking firing arrows right beside his wife's nose.

[00:19:42] Well in the whole time I'm thinking all of the Japanese in this program so far have been shown

[00:19:47] to be very impressive individuals yes you've seen their their prowesses warriors and their society

[00:19:56] their culture they're they're building a sea like Osaka that blows the Europeans minds when they

[00:20:02] started drinking I thought now here's the thing that the British could put their stamp on the

[00:20:08] I thought so too.

[00:20:10] Yeah and when the you realize how deep the training goes that he's able to put that

[00:20:16] arrow through the same hole twice despite not being able to stand up it's just kind of terrifying.

[00:20:22] Yeah that's some Hawkeye shit.

[00:20:24] Yeah the episode serves as a major maturation set of days for Blackthorn.

[00:20:30] He really learns a lot about the culture even more so.

[00:20:34] Using more of the language scene to scene.

[00:20:37] I like that I really like that a lot.

[00:20:40] Shogun's done not just an incredible job of world building but also creating and developing

[00:20:44] characters you just have these genuine interest and care for which is what's happening with me

[00:20:49] and Blackthorn and Markiro and that to me is where it warrants the Game of Thrones comparisons

[00:20:55] that were being talked about willy-nilly early it's these characters you're like I want this person

[00:21:00] to succeed I want them to do well.

[00:21:03] Right and they have done a similar thing where they show the tip of the iceberg on a character history.

[00:21:09] Yes.

[00:21:10] So you're getting just enough to infer a lot be it you know why is Blackthorn really there

[00:21:17] what's going on with his two kids how does he really feel about Protestant versus Catholic

[00:21:22] all this kind of stuff that you're just kind of seeing on the surface level but then all of

[00:21:28] the representatives of shamed families that he's meeting that seems to be something that comes up

[00:21:34] again and again and the the layers are slowly being pulled out on that.

[00:21:38] I thought they conclude not to jump ahead too much but the

[00:21:41] marrying that idea with the fascination with rules and order and ceremony at the end

[00:21:49] where he gives Torinaga the the two swords was such a good.

[00:21:54] This Torinaga seems to be I can't even fully take credit for this idea was I did the Reddit

[00:22:00] dive but somebody pointed out that he seems to skirt and flout and not be totally sold on how

[00:22:10] important or at least be aware of how ridiculous some of the ceremony can be.

[00:22:15] Yeah.

[00:22:16] He understands why Blackthorn is upset that the gardener was killed because of this

[00:22:22] this even though he kind of dismisses him and says I can't listen to this right now.

[00:22:26] He gives the American version of I can't right now.

[00:22:29] Yeah he knows it's this funny meeting of like that both the ceremony and the

[00:22:34] fact that he knows that the swords that he's given are kind of full of shit.

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:39] Right.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:39] It's first time he breaks his facade.

[00:22:42] But he takes them because he realizes Blackthorn is kind of a mirror held up to the society that

[00:22:48] he's living in and it's just really nice scene where there's a lot going on and people had

[00:22:52] different opinions about what was going on in that scene.

[00:22:56] But I really enjoyed that read of Torinaga just embracing his view of the absurdity of

[00:23:03] what he's living in.

[00:23:05] What are two interpretations of that scene then?

[00:23:07] I mean another one could be just as simple as this European doesn't understand what he's doing.

[00:23:13] OK.

[00:23:14] You know and just kind of laughing at that and no one knows if they should take it seriously or

[00:23:19] not because of the implications not just of the swords themselves but a man disarming himself

[00:23:25] for someone you know there's so many things that he may just not comprehend that he's doing

[00:23:30] that would be worth a chuckle versus I think this is a good guy that I am building a

[00:23:36] relationship with and back to that mirror idea of I'm kind of laughing at like he just likes me

[00:23:43] and wants to you know he's also the first one down the hill Blackthorn is.

[00:23:47] Yes.

[00:23:48] Where you see I mean the kind of as a mirror image of the first episode where

[00:23:53] I'm going to forget his name when he falls off the cliff

[00:23:56] and he's just ready to accept death on the waves.

[00:23:59] Oh yeah this has been established with Blackthorn he's not the type to leave a man

[00:24:02] behind because even when Mark Keros husband was left to shore he couldn't believe we're just rowing away.

[00:24:10] Right I mean I suppose the dignified thing would have been to not fight out of that rubble

[00:24:15] if you're Torinaga and for him to just refuse and to jump down and pull him out.

[00:24:21] The ultimate leader is without his swords and buried in mud.

[00:24:26] Yeah it's a good scene there's a lot going on that I didn't really consider at first.

[00:24:31] The interpretation of Torinaga laughing or smiling because this poor Englishman has no

[00:24:37] idea what he's doing that's kind of sad.

[00:24:40] It makes you feel sorry for the Anjan.

[00:24:43] Well I don't know that he doesn't know what he's doing in a he's embarrassed himself kind of way

[00:24:49] it's he doesn't he's doing the decent thing and I understand that but he doesn't know how many

[00:24:56] cultural lines he's crossing and kind of laughing at that.

[00:25:02] Yeah I'd like that better than he doesn't know that he's giving me meaningless swords and I'm too

[00:25:07] important to carry these. I kind of like that it causes him to chuckle.

[00:25:11] Yeah and speaking of the earthquake though that was a well done earthquake scene.

[00:25:17] It was incredible. It seemed realistic I've never been involved with an earthquake but it seemed

[00:25:24] better than just having the cameras move. Shake yeah shake.

[00:25:28] When one of the FX workers weighs in on a scene that's pretty cool and one of the guys who had

[00:25:35] worked on that gave a rundown of how they did it and then one of the sound designers also popped

[00:25:41] in and said this is how we kind of supplemented what they had done visually and apparently

[00:25:47] it seemed to me pretty fantastical. Apparently that's a realistic depiction of

[00:25:53] what that would look like which is which is scary. Yeah I'm going to use the word terrifying for I

[00:25:58] think the third time this episode but yeah some smaller plots revolve around Yabushigi continued

[00:26:06] search for Tornago spy and whether his devotion lies fully with Tornago or perhaps Ishido back at

[00:26:12] the castle in Osaka. That was a good reveal that the spy was an undercover samurai.

[00:26:20] Oh yeah it was. The Humble Villager. It was almost a toss away line. I just I liked the

[00:26:28] comes from Samurai movies but it seems like almost like a you know Obi-Wan in the desert

[00:26:34] kind of Jedi undercover kind of trope. Makes you wonder if that guy's gonna

[00:26:41] yank a sword slash someone. Like at a crucial moment where you think all hope is lost and

[00:26:46] oh wait secret samurai. I asked everyone last week what we thought Tornago was up to at his castle

[00:26:53] or home of Isdo and it was raising that huge army and apparently are releasing the mother to the air

[00:26:59] Lady Uchiba who was under Tornago's care as he put it she's been returned to the palace by

[00:27:06] the end of the episode. And it's just completely terrifying again I'm going to use it the fourth

[00:27:10] time. Well I tell you something that really helped that scene and it's I thought about this

[00:27:16] because I just noticed it this episode. The sound design is from Atticus Ross famous

[00:27:23] you know guy and that's when I felt it the most. The menace. Yeah yeah she's the mother to the air

[00:27:31] of Japan her importance hasn't really been laid bare as of yet until she rolls in she rolls in

[00:27:37] stomps its Cheetos nuts and tell him she's there to control. She's the first one to go full

[00:27:44] circle who doesn't really seem to give a shit about what the deceased wanted you know she's not

[00:27:51] beholden to these five dudes. It's like an out now power grab you know. Yeah yeah some some

[00:27:59] surcy vibes. Right. That has to spell worst trouble for Tornago or else the drama's a bit

[00:28:06] of ease but I don't you know it's going to be interesting how so. Well they keep dividing

[00:28:13] those regions in ways that are unexpected. It seems like the more division she faces the better

[00:28:20] off for Tornago right because if he's he's the lone wolf more or less at this point so if there's

[00:28:26] this rogue queen for lack of a better word that has to help him right. Yes I'm also curious as to

[00:28:36] how Ishiro doesn't want to pair with Tornago because they're both anti-Christian. Right. And the other

[00:28:44] regions are in the Christian camp I think all the rest of the three or at least two of them.

[00:28:50] Well Ishiro seems to be weighing his options at all times like he's the leader of the other

[00:28:56] you know the the non Tornago four but it's kind of crumbling in his hands. Right. And he

[00:29:04] seems to know that Tornago is you don't really want to mess with him. He gets it he gets the severity

[00:29:09] of the situation and the complexity continues because he is Yasha Bushi I'm butchering his poor

[00:29:16] name but is he that that particular Lord is he loyal to Tornago or to Ishiro and does

[00:29:25] Tornago really believe that Omi was just as smart as he is. Omi being the nephew the young

[00:29:33] nephew in charge of the fishing village. Yasha Bushi returning again to comedy he is a very funny

[00:29:40] character to me and the actor seems to be having a real blast playing this kind of like heel

[00:29:46] of a guy in some ways but also like the fool you know. Yeah that's a good way of putting it

[00:29:52] he's such a heel. And this is kind of like a again the internet helped me connect these dots

[00:29:58] but one actually Japanese viewer said this is kind of a classic comedic character in Japanese

[00:30:05] cinema and it's definitely in some Kurosawa stuff where like the borderline meathead kind of

[00:30:13] dummy who's trying to play a few different people but it's not like it's very easy to see what's

[00:30:18] going on and he is easily struck down like when the he tries to blame the nephew like you were

[00:30:23] saying and the nephew ends up getting rewarded as a result of it. Yeah Tornago is like no that's

[00:30:29] what I want. Yeah it's fun it's a good time. Where are you with Cosmos Jarvis as a John Blackthorn

[00:30:36] the Ungeon because I asked this I've seen a little bit of various folks online who think he's a bad

[00:30:43] actor that he's overdoing it with the same facial expressions and shouting his lines

[00:30:48] and I have a response to that but I want to hear what you say. I was going when you said

[00:30:52] what is your feeling about him I was going to say I think he overacted early. I think episode one

[00:30:59] I was kind of his first I don't know half hour on screen I was kind of rolling my eyes thinking

[00:31:05] if this is a guy who's going to play like this and I'm watching people speak a language I don't

[00:31:11] know are they doing the same thing you know like what is the quality of the acting in this

[00:31:17] but he's softened a lot post haircut and as he settled in but I mean he is to put it in

[00:31:25] guitar terms he's got it turned to ten most of the time he's going for it. Well he's not an actor

[00:31:31] I don't think that's his day job I think he's a musician but to me he's great and that maybe

[00:31:39] because he's coming across as not actorly especially in a society where everyone is an actor

[00:31:45] and carefully choosing their own words and he's just like overdoing it I think that's probably why

[00:31:51] he was cast if he's making the choices to do that I think it's great. The character is written in

[00:31:56] such a way that he seems to be like trying for almost like a pirate kind of thing early on but

[00:32:02] then when he does pull off like the boat race kind of scene you're like well this guy's putting

[00:32:08] his money where his very loud mouth is so it kind of works and I thought that he handled all the nuance

[00:32:17] happening in this final episode this most recent episode really well everything from the confrontation

[00:32:24] with the nothing no death that doesn't happen off screen or a death that doesn't happen off screen

[00:32:30] is not a death husband what's his name that comes back the. Buntaro or something like that well

[00:32:37] that's his nickname he doesn't allow people to call him. It's uh yeah that was good to show how

[00:32:44] stiff that guy is yeah but I thought their their interaction was like we said very high stakes

[00:32:50] and very well acted and his the switch from like his playful no one touches the pheasant to

[00:32:59] what the hell is wrong with you people just horrified over the course of the episode was

[00:33:04] well done I thought that's a range that wasn't there for him in the first one.

[00:33:09] Yes which leads me to one of my final questions about you want to comment on Mark Kiro's backstory

[00:33:16] how she's from a dishonored family and should have died with him but she didn't because she was married

[00:33:22] and now she isn't allowed to die so as to remember her family's dishonor that's some

[00:33:27] layered punishment and she's ordered to live by her husband yeah he doesn't let her her annual

[00:33:35] tradition is asking for mission to die through which he says no and it's the it's only one line

[00:33:41] but in the previous episode episode four Toranaga tells her she can do what she's been asking her

[00:33:45] to do if she'll serve him so I didn't call that yeah well I did a little digging and

[00:33:52] discovered that it's a sad moment when you realize that that he's going to grant that in episode four

[00:34:00] assuming he keeps his promise and she still wants to I guess. And it makes you as you think back to

[00:34:07] things that she said or been an audience to all of Blackthorne his musings at best and

[00:34:14] rantings at worst about the value of life the value given to life in Japan and how he

[00:34:19] doesn't understand that that must be feel very personal to her that here's a guy who would survive

[00:34:26] no matter what and she's attempting to end this embarrassment he may be offering a different

[00:34:33] vision of what life or redemption or any of these things which is funny that she's the one

[00:34:38] wearing the cross at all times of all people she should understand mercy and second chances

[00:34:46] apparently not yeah both the women and his immediate orbit are dealing with some heavy

[00:34:52] heavy stuff I think is Fuji yeah Fuji the other yeah it's kind of only left alive to deal with

[00:34:58] the shame right that's right that's like her punishment yeah yes I was worried she was going

[00:35:03] to be dead or really injured and die in the next episode when he returns from the earthquake

[00:35:10] no she would have just shot the earthquake oh Fuji would have yeah she's pretty quick with

[00:35:14] that gun yeah she's getting better were you hoping Blackthorne was going to shoot the husband

[00:35:20] I thought it would have been kind of cool in like a Indiana Jones dude waves this order around

[00:35:25] kind of way yeah but I'm glad that he didn't yeah he had restraint that was it was a more it could

[00:35:32] have been taken down to the level of that Indiana Jones scene for sure but it's better that

[00:35:39] and I would still like to know if Blackthorne understood what what the guy said when he

[00:35:45] at the height of their confrontation he apologized right yeah well he's yeah blaming the sake

[00:35:52] he picked up on that but it was a deeper to me it wasn't just like sorry I'm drunk it was

[00:36:00] more to it yeah I don't think he got the depth he understood the sake which he wasn't on

[00:36:05] board with as an excuse no he was ready for round 14 or whatever they were at

[00:36:12] he was passed out on phase first on the floor how many times have you done that

[00:36:16] well they sleep on the floor too many to count you don't sleep on the floor oh oh no I'm talking

[00:36:21] about you how many times you passed out phase first on the floor for Adam for Donovan for Natalie

[00:36:28] I'm Blaine and that's going to lead us to the end of the episode talk to us let us know

[00:36:33] what you think find us online we're easy to find we're all over social media and we respond

[00:36:38] final thoughts this has turned into a we played catch up but now this is a weekly viewer like

[00:36:45] night of or night after so this is such a joy when a program is like that it's usually a Sunday

[00:36:50] night HBO show but I like a little midweek pick me up too fx coming in hot trying to pick up some

[00:36:59] of HBO's slack maybe take their title which we thought apple was going to be the one to do that but

[00:37:04] maybe not I'm out on apple until they give me severance season two what about Franklin you're

[00:37:10] not interested in Benjamin Franklin's antics our horniest almost president that's it yeah I didn't

[00:37:16] know about my dogless all right I'm in all right that's it for us thanks for listening we'll talk

[00:37:21] to everyone next Tuesday