The Haunting Light of 'I Saw the TV Glow' and the Second Episode of 'The Penguin'

It's a new week for us at taking down the tv podcast for the Alabama take website.

We know that tv's scattered due to streaming.

It's our goal to help you not only decide if something's worth your time, but also give you a bit of dissection and discussion on the show or the movie, maybe give you some insights.

Not a lot at the top here.

I'm understanding from talk online that rambling at the top is frowned upon, apparently for tv.

This week we're going to be talking about, briefly, the Last of Us season two trailer.

Then we're going to talk about, in non spoiler form, both the the movie I saw, the tv glow and the second episode of the Penguin.

All that's on Max.

Just so happens that's what you're going to hear.

You probably realize that with show notes.

Use the show notes to jump into the timed part you wish to hear, or hear us all the way through.

If you like it, let us know.

We are a DIY website and podcast network.

If you wish to leave a tip that's also in the show notes, we're working on creating memberships.

We'll get those tiered memberships ready and let you know when you can join, if that's your desire.

Let me get Donovan in here and we're gonna start this week's episode of taking it down projection.

Donovan joins me now.

I cannot, we cannot go forward without saying hello to 87 JeDF talking to us on the Alabama take side itself in the comment section.

He was saying that you were right about bad monkey and the.

That the monkey's not that bad.

No, no spoilers for the most recent episode.

But they even addressed this.

No, he said that you were right about Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation versus the Fed.

Yeah, they flubbed that.

Yeah, they did.

It's like if you go to Mobile and you see the ABI building, that is a state agency, that is not a federal agency.

And we also got a review this week from Lololala, something maybe, I don't know.

This person wrote such a great podcast and referenced me, me as Mister Duncan.

So it is a student, former student, don't know.

Write in and tell us how that's pronounced, please.

Yes, if you're listening, send recording of yourself saying it.

What is that?

Yeah, you can go to the site and leave a message.

You go to the site, click leave a message and you can record yourself.

And we could drop it into any.

Of these, put you on the air.

Yep.

So you got to keep it clean.

No, we were not at all.

Not at all.

In my opinion.

It isn't intentional that we're covering all HBO or Max things today, but did your Max app happen to show you the trailer for next year's second season of the last of us?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thoughts?

I'm actually really excited because I know you, like, Adam wasn't very high on it.

I think it was like, adam lowest you kind of in the middle.

And to me, I was actually pretty high on it.

Like, I liked it quite a bit.

Yeah.

So I'm excited.

I was really amazed that they could get the emotional impact out of that show based on what it was.

Yeah.

I thought that it was a testament to, obviously, Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey doing really good work.

I thought that they were not afraid to do, you know, even, like, the Nick Offerman commercial, when that's a little unconventional.

I thought they were like, they weren't afraid to play around with it.

And it's led to me feeling excited for more than, like, most video games are not gonna work as tv shows because they're pushing utterly different buttons and.

They'Re doing utterly different things, literal buttons.

But, like, if you turn Mario into a successful movie, which, again, I think was.

It was either this year or last year, they did it.

I haven't seen it, but, like, there's no way that you're hitting a.

To jump over a.

A pet, you know, the movie is an utterly different experience.

So I am ready for the Zelda movie.

What?

Has that ever been attempted?

There was a tv show in there.

Maybe a cartoon.

Yeah.

But, like.

Like, eighties cartoon, I think.

Yeah.

The last of us trailers got Pedro pascal longingly looking at the guitar, really scratching me where I itched.

There something we can all relate to?

Yeah.

We're back again in the non spoiler section that begins each episode of this damned podcast.

Oh, we should change it to that.

That should be the name.

The Damned podcast.

October.

That damned podcast got a little Halloween flare to it.

Month of October.

That's what I'm saying.

And it can be back.

You know, we can revert to normal in November.

Well, it is kind of October themed this week.

Don't know how many more weeks we'll do it.

But it is kind.

It is kind of October.

I kind of like how that worked out.

Yeah.

Now streaming on Max is the film.

I saw the glow of the tv.

I keep wanting to say I saw the tv glow.

Am I wrong?

It is.

I saw the tv glow.

Well, I typed it wrong.

Say the thing that you kept wanting to say is the correct is the correct title.

I knew I would mess this up because I kept saying it wrong in my head every time I would go to look for it or google it for whatever reason.

Yes.

That's great.

Now, streaming on the Max is the film.

I saw the glow of the tv.

I saw the tv glow.

I saw the tv glow.

Yeah, don't listen to me.

I mean, don't listen to Blaine listeners.

Listen to me.

I have the correct title.

Did I type it wrong in our text message?

I don't think you did.

That's why this is making me laugh, because this is coming out of nowhere.

That's coming to my messed up head.

Before we spoil anything at all about it, you're in the non spoiler section, people.

And thank you.

If you've seen this film, maybe you saw it in the theater, because we do tv and streaming, so if it's a movie, unless it's Netflix released or something along those lines, we don't get to it until it gets on streaming.

It would be rare.

If we do, you might have seen it.

And if you haven't, here's what we think.

We're not gonna spoil anything, but here's what might guide you in your thinking.

Give me your generalized thoughts.

Donovan, have you ever been a teenager?

One time.

One time.

Bonus points if you were ever a teenager in the suburbs, and then go.

Ahead and tack on a few bonus points if you were ever a gay teenager.

I would open up that umbrella and say, queer.

Thank you.

As, like, a bigger tent.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Especially if you were queer.

Mm hmm.

Okay.

That won't say anything else about that.

I don't.

Yeah.

Could really be getting into something.

But, yes, in the suburbs, if you've ever been enway of.

Of life, I think there's a hint of that, but it does go much deeper than that.

I'm gonna let you continue your general.

I just have one general thought, too, because I really.

I think actually, two general thoughts.

This movie is not for everyone.

I would describe it as really more on, like, the art film side of things, especially with its pacing.

So if that sounds like, you know, if you just need John Wick, like, which.

Which is not a judgment.

I'm just saying this is.

This is.

This is moving at a different pace.

If that's not you and you don't have.

It's not a very long movie, but I think you do have to have a little bit of patience.

If you're not feeling patient, maybe.

Maybe save it for a patient night.

The other thing that I think it captures.

And we're on a podcast that talks about pop culture.

Is that feeling, especially when you're young, of something maybe not even that good that is so important to you?

You know, like a piece of pop culture, something that seems like it's a key to life and you really kind of can't explain why it's so important to you.

If you've ever latched on, you know, some people it's Star wars, some people it's, you know, I don't know, Dragon Ball Z.

What do people like?

You know, some kids find it in books.

Some kids found it on, you know, like Buffy or something.

Yep.

I think there's a lot of that, too, which I really liked.

This movie is layered.

It's not for everyone.

It's got that art house pace.

You talked about that.

Yes, it's a very.

I was trying to think of how to say this without sounding like a negative, but it's very.

It's just.

It's just paced in a certain way that's like, okay, yeah, it's that kind of film with those kind of beats.

Yep.

And I would also say that it's nothing straight up horror.

No.

You might have thought it was advertised as such.

It's perhaps horror.

Well, if you get to the ending, it's perhaps horrific, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's horror.

Not even really drama either.

I saw on IMDb that it's listed as horror drama.

No, not really.

It's more.

Do you like surrealism and impressionism?

Okay, there we go.

Yeah, I think that it owes.

And I was glad to see this.

It owes a lot to David lynch.

Definitely.

Yes.

The.

The director confirmed as much, is what I'm saying, which will.

I saw that, you know, I'll say more.

Many reviewers had noted that, especially.

Which I agree.

Which I agree with.

Yes.

And I was glad to see that because I kept thinking it during my viewing.

We'll get into the specifics of how and why and what we really.

Not really for everyone, but did you like it, by the way?

You never sort of said that.

Yeah, that's true.

Yes, I did.

Yeah.

At the end of it.

But what I liked about it was like, it was kind of the movie or the kind of movie where I was at when I finished it.

I was like, and this may sound negative, but it's not a negative is I finished it and my wife watched it with me and she said, did you like it?

And I said, yes, but I don't know how much I liked it.

Cause I really felt like I needed to kind of digest.

So I watched that a couple days ago and I think it was good.

I'm glad I watched it.

I did enjoy it, but this is where it sounds like a negative.

I think it's really a positive.

I really needed a couple days to digest it, and I think it's really strong visually.

I needed, like, a couple days for that to work on my subconscious, you know, because that's where it works.

While it's not horror, I do think it haunts you a little.

That's a great way to put it.

Thank you.

Now, did I like it?

I went through phases much.

Like, at first I was like, I think I kind of like this.

And then I got a sense of what all it was doing as a package.

And I thought, oh, I don't.

I don't think I'm crazy about it, but I'm also maybe not the audience for this.

And then I came back around to go, no, no, no.

There are so many layers to this that I actually do like it quite a bit.

Who doesn't like something that's, like, from the second I saw it, it was great.

But there's something really great about, like, art that makes you appreciate it, if that makes sense, that lets you work to appreciate it.

It certainly prodded me.

It's kind of like not playing it safe, you know?

Like you could just make.

You could make something that it's like that's begging to be loved.

And you did it.

You made something that I could take or leave.

A bit of a niche film, certainly in its content, which we can't talk content yet.

You and I wanted to revisit the Penguin after a second episode.

We really were firm on that.

And when we do shows week to week, sometimes we don't mention them in the non spoiler section.

But here, I think we gotta.

Has your opinion of it changed without, you know, telling any specifics?

Where are you with it now?

Not.

It has not substantially changed.

I think the things that I liked in the first episode are still there, especially the performances of some of the leads.

I think, like, sometimes there's a little, like, creakiness, maybe, like, it's doing a lot.

But I'll tell you the other thing is, like, Colin Farrell doing the voice of the Penguin is absolutely rent free in my head.

So I just, like, see things.

You love them, hear them said in that voice.

I love the way he does it.

Are you too fucking good for me?

I've decided that his voice is my favorite part of the show.

It's hilarious.

It's such.

It's so clearly a put on.

Yeah.

Almost feels like he's winking at you sometimes.

I cannot land on this show being good or bad.

It did.

Yeah.

Right?

It's watchable.

I would say this one, episode two, did feel too heavily influenced, if not straight up borrowing from the Sopranos this time around.

Oh, yeah.

But I think once I accept it as pulp, I find enough way to spend 50 minutes on Sundays.

I'm okay with everything.

It does feel a lot like a Batman comic book when Batman is on its best work in the comic.

Like, darker, interesting, not necessarily thought provoking, but good.

As far as.

Here's some crime that's happening and unfurling.

Here's some.

The penguin.

That should be its tagline.

The penguin.

Here's some crime.

Colin Farrell's expressions are what's winning me.

Yeah, it is kind of one of those, like, is it good or bad?

Well, it's good in parts and it's bad in parts.

I do think, you know, I've said this in anticipation of it.

And now having watched it last week, I'm gonna say the same thing.

I worry that it's never gonna do more than, you know, that.

You said this one had a very big sopranos feel.

I worry that it's never gonna do more than like.

But why don't I just rather watch the sopranos?

You know, like, do I need Batman?

Does the Sopranos.

Well, it is October, and since there isn't a Mount Flanagan production to watch over the course of the month.

First one in years, really.

I think there is a gap on occasion.

But was there?

Cause we went and we had.

Did we have a gap between midnight Mass and the Poe one?

Maybe.

Maybe something like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Donovan and Nachos.

I saw the glow of the tv.

I saw the tv glow, listeners.

I've got it written wrong again.

Wow.

Yes, you'll find it.

It's easy enough.

Yeah, you'll find it.

It's an 824 film written and directed by Jane Shelburne, starring the young actors Justice Smith and Bridgette Looney Payne.

It's now streaming on Max, as we mentioned, and it's labeled horror drama, but here comes spoilers.

Okay, people.

I love the look of it.

Yeah.

Just couldn't get enough of the look.

I feel like the director who I'm.

I apologize if I misgender them.

I believe they use they.

Them pronouns.

Oh, okay.

Like wrote down.

Yeah.

They're.

They're non bi, trans feminine, non binary, and use they good to know, I believe.

But I feel like they, like, wrote down that phrase, I saw the tv glow and then was like, make the whole movie look like that.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

It's such a.

It's almost.

I mean, not all of it, but, like, there's so many of us that are so evocative of, like, sitting in the basement with your tv on and nothing else on.

Well, God knows what else is going on in the world.

Yeah.

So much of it is shot at night.

And when I realized that was gonna be the case, I was just all in that opening scene of a street with the.

There's riding in the suburban street with chalk.

And then kid.

Then you switch it to a kid watching tv and then to the parachute ballooning up at gym class with no dialogue.

That's all you get for a little while.

It was good.

And also, it's so fun, like the parachute ballooning up in gym class thing.

Like, I looked right at my wife and I was like, why did they make us do that?

Like, I haven't really thought of it in a while, but, like, I could remember being a kid in gym class.

Playing with the balloon that gets you.

Active, gives you something to do.

It's fun.

I guess so.

But it was good.

It felt so good because it hit something where I'm like, I haven't thought of that in years.

Yeah.

Tapping into that innocence which he's about to switch out of a little, in a way.

Oh, man.

Well, no, for sure.

Yeah.

Going from, I think the director.

This might be getting a little ahead of things, but the director wanted the younger actor.

So there's two actors, one's younger twelve year old, and the one's a teenager.

And they said they weren't really concerned about these actors lining up because they wanted there to be a break.

And that really worked for me with the younger kind of more at peace, more serene, the world is still there to explore versus, well, life.

Yeah.

The.

The main character you're with is Owen there at the beginning doing the what?

The 8th grade balloon thing.

And I think it really is an 8th grade in the film, so.

8Th grade balloon helping his mom vote.

Yep.

Oh, yes.

I wanted to get immediately into that.

The mom voting, man.

Something about.

I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna be more specific than something about.

But having her voting at night in a empty high school is the perfect vibe for what they're trying to establish here.

Yes, absolutely.

And I was thinking, who votes late at night?

Well, in November it is.

It is dark, early and you're off work.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And then there's this show within a show, which is a big part of them.

Movie.

The show within a movie, I should say.

It's.

The show's called Pink Opaque.

The pink opaque, yeah.

On the young.

The very, like, up front about it.

The young adult network, which that made me laugh.

And the.

And the show is obviously constructed lovingly, I would say, as a tribute to what you might have seen on the WB network in days gone by.

It really hit me as a late night Nickelodeon show.

I could see that too.

And I think it's borrowing from a lot in order to cover a lot of ground.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Drawn to this young lady there who's there at the high school, empty high school, at the voting place.

But it's drawn to her because she's reading a book about the pink opaque that really reminded me of how we were all insane about twin peaks at that time period with Laura Palmer's diary.

You could go buy it.

I remember going to the bookstore never being able to buy it, but picked it up a bunch of times to try to see what was in it.

You know what it made me think of was.

Cause he's fascinated by her, right.

Cause she's reading the episode guide for something.

He's.

Love it.

Seen commercials for, but never watched.

And that really reminded me, like, before, you could just look up anything.

Yes.

On Wikipedia, if you're like.

But getting, like, did you ever have, like, as a younger kid, like a.

Like a source book or something that had, like, all the X Men in it, even the obscure ones.

So even read those.

Yeah.

Even if you couldn't read the comics.

Those were my shelves.

Right.

You knew what Leech was up to.

Like, it really reminded me of that, where it's like, you can't just learn.

You can't just know everything.

It's like this arcane, secret knowledge.

In the eighties, Marvel even came out with these double or triple sized comics of the who's who.

Yeah.

Oh, I love those.

And I hated that.

I missed one because at my little small town, if you miss one, that's it.

You didn't see it again.

Right.

You're never seeing it again.

I think just not being able to access all that knowledge to you, like, ends it like an air of mystery or almost like it could be anything.

Like you can almost imagine, you know?

Right.

Like, it can.

It can be better than what it is to you.

It can mean more than what it is.

Exactly.

Key point of the film, too.

It's so vital that this is pre Internet.

Yeah, absolutely.

I started to suspect just pretty early, right here in the film that this is about our nostalgia for the former tv we loved with those hints of Nickelodeon or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the show within the movie.

And I was so glad that I read the director.

They mentioned the influence of Twin Peaks, the return, because I felt it so much and I didn't want to say I was crazy.

It's funny because Twin Peaks is not paid.

The return is not paced the same way.

I don't know a better way to play.

At some points, it seems like Owen is almost sleepwalking through life in much the way that Dougie is and, like, there's the way that is portrayed.

A good choice to have mom voting.

You could have had her doing anything.

She could have been at a PTO meeting.

But C is seeing those 1996 candidates.

I know.

That was the Ross Perot up there.

Yeah.

First time I voted in a presidential election.

Did you?

Did you.

I'm curious, did you have a machine like that when you first voted?

Never have.

In all my days, it's always been a bubble.

There's been.

I've only ever done the bubble, although I'm a little younger than you, but apparently up here there's some that were in use, like, somewhat fairly regularly.

I think they've decided the bubble is better now.

But, wow, this movie's really good at setting a tone of depressed and horrific.

You know, the soundscape of.

I suppose it was almost nothing for a while.

And then you got this slight mix of orchestral strings.

It reminded me so much of hopes and noble and the warm inventions.

I don't remember if you remember her from Mazzie starred and she went on some solo stuff.

It sounds so much like her work around that time period.

Have you ever listened to any of, you know, Alex G was the guy who did the sound?

Have you ever listened to any of his stuff?

No.

He's been.

He's been a.

He's an indie musician.

He's been.

His, like, albums are the atmospheric side of indie without being like, shoe gaze or whatever.

But I was actually kind of, like, surprised by his track.

I never heard him do a score before.

It was really unexpected.

Really excellent.

Yeah, I think he's worth, by the way, if anyone, Alex G, he's worth checking out.

He's got a lot of music.

If you don't like some of it, you'll probably like others.

You know, he's very prolific.

Yeah.

The obvious here is this movie's about finding your neat niche.

And not feeling like, fitting in.

But then we get the metaphor that can.

There's that, of course, as a metaphor.

Then you also get this metaphor of teenage loneliness and then the other layer of being queer and then another layer of not belonging, maybe even due to unable to transition at that age or.

Maybe being unable to articulate, even to yourself, your own deepest desires.

You don't even know what you don't know yet.

You just know that you don't quite fit, that something's not quite right.

Yeah, I'm just rattling off things that I thought it did so well.

Man, did it not establish this menace to a father long before you even see him driving?

Oh, yeah.

And I think I was so afraid of him, even.

And he wasn't even on camera until he started.

You get the scene where Owen's upset about.

Well, he wants to watch the show, and he's asking if he can.

He's got essentially two scenes in the movie which completely works for me, because, like, if you.

Maybe it wasn't apparent for you, but if there's ever just been, like, an unseen source of authority that you just dreaded.

For some people, it's God, right?

For some people, it's apparent.

For some people, it's authority of a different sort.

But, like, that works so well for me, where it's, like, it's not.

It's that distance, and it's the way that, like, it's not actively hurting you, but it could at any time.

And one thing was, you're completely in its power.

One thing was of him driving.

What was the other?

That.

That when he comes and takes him out of the tv at the end.

Yeah, that's basically it for him.

He's not in a lot.

It did have a moment or two where I thought to myself, okay, I know you're an a 24 semi horror film.

I get it.

This is where it's gonna.

I don't mean it as a knock, but I think I felt that way, too, where, like, there's a certain kind of writing.

Wait a minute.

And I'll kind of read, and I'll be like, let me check the bio.

And by goddess, they've been to the Iowa, you know, writers workshop.

They have an MFA.

So I'm just like.

There's this kind of writing that's like MFA writing, and I completely am allergic to it.

So here's my question, which I bet you know the answer to.

Do all of the directors for an a 24 film, do they all share the same camera?

Each passes.

That's what like, kind of what I was, like, thinking.

Like, it's got its pace.

What you're.

What you're saying here is, like, the pacing and the camera, the look are like, yeah, this is almost like.

I know this isn't happening, but it's almost like the art house version of, like, hammer horror of something where it's like, we've got the studio style.

All right.

Like, they all got the style books.

This film was actually shot on locale of a Yola tango album cover.

So many of the shots reminded me of that.

That's a good one, Blaine.

That's a good joke.

Yeah.

I was also quick to notice, and I'm so appreciative of these purposeful choices that tend to add to something.

I love that kind of thing.

Whether, you know, whether I end up loving the movie or not, if you do that kind of thing, I'm going to respect it and probably grade it really high.

So with the dad and then the co worker, who's also, you probably know the actor's name, but he's also in the Tim Robinson show, and he's Joe Perez neighborhood.

Yeah, he's insane.

It's Connor O'Malley.

Connor O'Malley is the co worker.

But with the.

As soon as I saw him.

Like, that guy.

Yes.

You don't even really see him.

You just see Owen open the door, you hear somebody talking.

As soon as he laughs, you think, do I know this?

Yeah.

So with the dad and the co worker, Connor O'Malley, you know, menta, here are the scare.

They're the fear.

They're the thing making Owen uncomfortable.

And that makes such sense when you look at it through the lens of horror.

If you are queer in that age and era, especially 19, 96, 98, what's.

More scary than being in a body that isn't yours, growing into something you don't want to be and having no way to stop it.

And mostly the men around you demonizing you for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or, like, at least, you know, between demon.

Like, between demonizing, picking on you.

There.

It was a.

There is a whole.

The way, like, the father is set up.

There's a whole unspoken history.

Yeah.

And I think you kind of intuit.

Such a great job of just when.

He asked to watch the pink opaque and the dad says, isn't that a girls show?

That's his only line.

Yeah.

Wow.

There's a whole.

I thought they did that really well.

And then.

Yeah, with the coworkers.

Is he even demonized by his coworkers so much as he's mocked, you know?

No, I did not think that any of the characters demonized him.

I just meant in that time period, that's probably what it was like.

But it's.

Yeah.

Or to just be something, like, so utterly unworthy of respect and uncovered and dignity that you're basically not a human being.

I really love the shot of when Maddie returns in the grocery store.

Store.

Man, that was good, wasn't it?

Yes, it was.

Did you notice the shot?

He hugs her, and they're under three United States flags.

Very reminiscent, a very.

Maybe an allusion to, you know, the three, the Trinity.

And then also that this is what the US does, makes these teens feel like in that era or even now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's.

It's power and conformity, you know, in the grocery store, it's.

It's the.

It's the dark flip side of that wonderful Joe Perry album where he goes grocery or episode where he goes grocery shopping, because, like, it kind of is exposing the secret underpinnings of the grocery store.

Joe Perry does it in a kind and funny way.

This, in this scene shows it as a place of, like, power, authority, and control that you have to be rescued from.

There's never been a more indie band playing in that bar scene.

When oe and Maddie catch up, I actually love.

So I love that there was.

And they sort of, like, allude to this a little bit, but I love that they had a band play in the middle of it because it did feel like there's.

I don't know if you ever watch those shady WB shows, but, like, they have, like, the teens have, like, a hangout where they go.

Right?

And so, like, in Buffy, there's a band playing.

Or, like, if you watch Smallville, which was a WB show, they'd have a coffee house where a band could play.

It would be, like, not great bands, but, like, you know, like, they advertise, like, the soundtrack and, you know, like, it would be, like, the band playing would be, like, part of the episode.

So just as a pure, like, you're something.

You loved putting that in there, I thought was great.

Great soundtrack for this one, too.

Yeah.

Love the music.

It was huge in twin peaks of return, too.

Yeah, that aspect of it.

Yeah, that's another.

That's another world.

I don't know what's going on there, but I loved it.

Of note that their high school is called void high school.

I think that's right.

You know, and this is a movie about the void of life in suburban America that not even tv can help.

At least not in the long run.

Memories won't help.

They aren't as good.

Like when he watched the show again on streaming years later, it's just not as good as it was.

The pink opaque, of course, a fitting title because you can't see through this film, nor can you see through how your memories are gonna be.

Him watching the film and it reverting.

Obviously, I think it works with the central metaphors of the movie, but for me, it worked almost on a personal level.

And I bet for many of you, because how many of us have felt like this thing that, like, oh, my gosh, it was so important to me as a kid, you know, like, especially if maybe it's something maybe only you like and.

Or a couple other people like and you.

Not a lot.

You don't, you know, it's a little weird, a little odd, and then you go back to it and it just sucks.

The thing that made it so powerful and important was the thing you were putting into it, what you were getting out of as a kid.

A lot of times, too, when you don't, you kind of don't have a sense of taste yet.

So any, you know, like, any whatever is the coolest thing you've ever seen.

But you can never recapture that because it was really more like what you imagined than what it actually was.

And I thought that was perfect.

They did a great job with that.

Agreed.

It ends with a celebration of someone's birthday and he yells that he's dying.

This is where, like, it did start to skid into horror a little bit, maybe.

Right, because we have the, like, maybe his body is actually underground.

Right, right.

In dirt.

Yeah.

And then he's.

But we also know he has asthma attacks.

So him, like, his body, like the way the actor just.

Justice.

Justice Smith.

Thanks.

Justice Smith seems to, like, painfully distort his body, as if he's drowning, as he's trying to suck in air.

And it's scary, actually.

Kind of like, finally it arrives.

Like it's unsettling.

He cuts himself open and there's only tv inside.

Static tv.

So many of us.

What an abrupt ending.

Ends with him apology apologizing at that shitty arcade job, but no one listens or even notices that he's there.

Yeah, no one cares.

I kept thinking, hey, this movie's about me.

Because I don't have any identifying characteristics to be on tv and movies, but it's also the sadness of life.

Unless you're connected to something or someone.

And if that connection's faults are disconnected, it's even worse.

Like, there's a sadness to it, like, too, like, he's the kid who maybe has this whole one, you know, as we get more into the visual and the elusive, like, maybe you do have this whole other life waiting for you somewhere, this whole other mode of being.

But he's the kid that never left his dad's house, and he worked at the movie theater until it closed, and then the manager took him to, you know, the kid that it's just like, is it even a dream deferred?

You almost never had it.

You almost didn't even know how to articulate it.

You didn't know what you wanted at all.

It seems so sad.

Mm hmm.

It is a decent.

He kind of sleep.

It felt like he was sleepwalking, which, yeah, very, you know, very Dougie Jones.

And it also fits with his claim that he has a family, but you never see that family.

Yeah, I did.

Weird and kind of scary, even.

I like the whole, like, the way he's like, I have a family and I'm getting older, but you never see the family, and you never see him getting older.

He just stays the same.

Yeah, pretty much.

He seems so awkward and uncomfortable in his own body.

It makes you want to scream.

Yeah.

It gets so close to encapsulating that really bizarre feeling that you have.

Maybe you're not real.

Yeah.

Like, the surrealness.

You ever look at yourself in a mirror too long when you were a kid?

When I was a kid, it happened several times in such a profound way that it.

I can still remember it clearly.

It's, like, utterly, utterly disorienting.

Right?

Yeah, it is.

Now why can't we do that anymore?

I don't know.

I think if you get into the right frame of mind, maybe you can.

I think it was.

It was for me as a little kid, though.

Like, you're so ego bound, and then all of a sudden, you have a moment where you're looking at yourself like somebody else looking at yourself, and you have a moment where you think, oh, my goodness.

Other people exist in this world as well, just as validly as I do.

And I think that's really easy to forget, but it can make you feel from, like, solipsism to, I'm just one part of.

A bigger part kind of leaves you feeling like, what am I?

Am I really here?

You know?

I think that's part of the point of the movie, because surely that's what.

Who am I to say?

But it could be what someone feels until they're able to transition.

I pulled up a director with.

Sorry, an interview with the director.

So this director has made two movies, and in both of them, people talk about feeling like they're watching themselves on tv.

So.

So that kind of, like, disassociative.

Like the director, Jane, was very explicitly trying for that disassociative, unreal feeling.

I'll just straight up read out what they said.

I think other people in the world can relate to a feeling of a dissociation, even if they aren't trans.

And feeling this distance between the self they feel internally and the self they present to the world.

In the case of being born into it.

And given the gender, that is the incorrect gender, this is an extreme example of that dissociation.

But I think the film and all of my work to date has been talking about that gap between a reality that feels fictional and a fiction that feels real.

Closing.

And I really saw that in this movie.

And I also really, really vibed with that, where obviously, I'm not a trans person.

But I think, like the director says, there is that if you've ever been.

If you're inside and you're outside have never matched.

If you feel like you've never been able to express yourself, you know, even if it's just like, I've never been able to, like, play the piano in the way I know I could in my head or something.

You know, if you've ever had that Frisian.

Yeah.

You know, this really kind of works for that very well.

I love how you can see it as a comment on fandom, media consumption, malaise of life and transitioning or not unable to transition.

The burial and rebirth part of it later in the film does figure into that interpretation.

And I feel like my final say will be that the horror of the film is staying inauthentic or unable to realize what your authentic self would be.

Yeah.

You know, it's a life that so many people live.

The scary, sad thing for me was like, he's so often on the edge of realization or revelation, and he steps back, and that's really kind of sad and scary.

Well, okay.

So pretty good.

In other words, I liked it.

I'm glad we watched it.

It was a.

It was an intense and interesting film.

No doubt about it.

High marks for me, although it is.

It is somewhat slow in its pacing.

I would.

I would say it's more deliberate.

I was not bored watching this movie.

No, not really.

Not at all.

It was good.

All right.

Yeah.

We're going to talk about the second episode of the Penguin with spoilers so be aware we're back into Gotham this week, because we just couldn't nail down a solid analysis on the Penguin episodes two up on HBO.

And, Max, this is the spoiler section.

If you're not up on Colin Farrell in 50 pounds of prosthetics and at least Kristen Miladi as a dead crime boss's serial killer daughter, then you better duck out till you seen the first two.

I believe my biggest idea from last week is I can see how the show can be good.

So I thought I'd continue.

Mm hmm.

Opening scene, we got Theo Rossi comes in on the scene as Sophia Falcone's therapist doctor.

You know, he brings a welcome sight to shows I've seen him do.

And it was like, yeah, we get it.

You've seen the Sopranos.

That doctor does bring me to the most important question I could ask is, how is Arkham still open?

Why isn't the government stepped in and closed this place?

Shut down?

Yeah.

It's like.

I think I will say this.

I'm not convinced that Gotham's tax collections are that low with Bruce Wayne living there.

Well, it's all capital gains with Bruce Wayne.

He doesn't get.

You know, he doesn't pay.

He pays less in taxes than you or I.

He's the villain here.

He was the real villain.

They should get another hospital built, because that place is nothing but grime.

I think Arkham's noted recidivism rate, the rate that criminals are able to check in and out at will, and the subhuman.

Yeah, somebody needs to.

Conditions there.

Somebody needs to step in.

I mean, it's like an Alabama prison.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, true.

It's one of those things where, like, if you really wanted to think about it, it's like, perhaps the point of Arkham is not to reduce the spread of crime and murder.

To quote a dear friend of ours, the purpose of a system is what it does.

There you go.

If there's a trope that I can get on board with with a character, it's the guy who drinks Pepto right out of the bottle.

Have you ever seen first reformed with Ethan Hawke?

Oh, yeah.

When he, like, mixed.

That's what I.

All I could think of was, like, when he mixes the Pepto in with his whiskey.

Cause his stomach's so ruined.

That's disgusting.

I believe the second episode sets up more of a tightrope.

That's going to be the penguin character.

He's slimy as hell, but he's our protagonist nonetheless.

I mean, we're rooting for him a little bit.

Right, of course, yeah.

I mean, everyone else is just as slimy.

It's not like there's any good guys.

Well, that's true.

Sophia's gonna be our prime.

Another primary character.

Of course, in her case, she's shit on for being a lady in a mafia world where men rule.

So you kind of pull for him.

And I can't help but have an affinity for someone with Oz's Persona.

Like, he's the most greasy guy at the party who steals your wallet, but he helps you look for it all the next day.

Yeah.

There is an element of.

Not like the charisma or charm, but there's an element of, like, I just want to see what he does next.

Like, how's he going to talk himself out of this one?

Right.

And we did get a good example of that with this one.

With that.

With the knife.

Yes.

Right.

How do you get out of it?

Oh, that's how he got out of it.

The small comic book things it'll do occasionally, like having Johnny viti be the only person to call him the penguin and using it as an insult, you know, if you're going for some realism, that kind of thing works to insert a.

Yeah.

How funny do you find it that the writers decide to use anecdotes for Oz to try to relate to people?

It gives.

It gives Colin Farhall a chance to shine through that makeup, you know?

Yeah, it does.

It does.

And I mean, I guess what the.

If I had to guess, it was like, what's the intention behind it?

Right.

It's to give Colin Farrell a chance to shine and it's also to try and reveal.

So I know it's a bit of telling, not showing, but it's also.

I think there's a bit of showing in there because they're.

I think they're at least trying to have you reveal, like, how he thinks about things, right?

Like how he thinks about his own life and his situation, you know, in telling an anecdote and choosing that anecdote and the telling of it, you know?

Yeah, I'm with you.

It's a lot of.

It's a lot of telling, not showing.

My marks against the show so far.

I'm not sure that.

I don't mean to interrupt you.

I'm not sure that I would like.

Again, I agree with you.

It is telling, not showing.

I'm not sure if this interrupted, like, with constant flashbacks to him being, like, beaten by his mother or whatever would have made it, like, a better show.

So perhaps we're.

Perhaps we're.

Perhaps we're lucky that they're merely telling us and not showing.

That's true.

Oz hints.

Correct me here.

Oz hints that he had something to do with Sophia's stay in the darkest mental hospital of all time.

I believe so.

Oh, wow.

Is that something we're supposed to know at this point, or was that a quick illusion in that conversation?

I don't think we're supposed to know it.

I might not even picked up on it correctly.

Okay.

Melody's performance as Sofia deepened for me last week, I wasn't quite on board as you were.

It's tempered more.

She settles into the role, I would imagine, and Sophia becomes more of a person and not a caricature.

She feels like she's doing such a good job as someone who is just bottling something up and, like, it was a little cheesy in the beginning where she's just like, screaming, you know, but, uh.

But as it goes on.

Right.

And you're kind of, you know, she's in situations where she has to both, like, suppress kind of this rage but also, like, act as well.

Yeah, I think.

I don't know.

I think she.

I'm enjoying it.

Yeah.

I think both of the protagonists slash antagonists are very good.

Colin Farrell and Kristen Milodi.

Everyone else is fine, but they're.

They're actually pretty good.

Yeah.

Something that's also deep informed me is Oz now has to play three sides and four if you count his own self interest.

Yeah.

You got Sophia's acting on her own against the mob.

Her uncle Lucas in charge in this episode.

And then there's Salvatore Moroni, the man in prison whom Oz is trying to ingratiate himself with.

Uh, it's all of that while being a greaseball, low tier nobody in the mob.

Yeah.

Middle management.

Yeah, well, that's the thing.

I don't even think he's hardly middle.

He's the guy who has to go dump the body and bury.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, like he ran the club and he could kind of boss people around, but, like, he's the manager of the McDonald's here.

He's not.

He's not a corporate.

Oh, no.

And he's not even.

I would dare say he's not even the manager at McDonald's.

He's like a shift manager.

That's even better.

He's the shift.

Exactly.

He doesn't own the McDonald's.

Oh, no.

He's the shift manager of the McDonald's.

You might have noticed it in episode one.

And I'm not as keen as you.

What Ferrell does in episode two with his eyes now that he's got more others to play off of, it's so telling.

You know, he's sneaky.

He's worried, he's lying, he's judging, he's deciding on the fly.

He's.

It's just these shifts in his eyes, how he's constantly watching everyone.

It's a lot of reacts and not action.

I like how there's a way that Colin Farrell, every, every time that Oz starts to spin a tail or try and talk his way out of, like, between his eyes and his tone of voice, like, you, they all at once, you're simultaneously able to see, like, why they might trust him or believe him or take him at face value.

And at the same time, it's such a tell for us, the audience, to know that he's lying.

He's talking his way out of it, this smarmy little shit.

It's actually great.

I kind of like, I.

I just think that Colin Farrell is like this and some Martin McDonough's movies, especially stuff like the banshees of Inishiren and just like, the way that he is, like, a really good, expressive actor.

Right?

Like, and it is so much his fate.

Like, think, thinking back to Banshee's because I was thinking a lot about his face because so much of it is, you know, he's having to do, like, kind, like, both subtle but also, like, over the top stuff because he's in so much makeup.

And I was thinking about how many, like, great scenes in Inishearn are just him, like, bugging his eyes out and look at, you know, looking like the dumbest guy in town trying to figure out what's going on.

You know, it's this combination of, like, really unsubtle and subtle all at the same time.

It's great.

He's actually very good when he, when he, when he gets it, he has a tendency.

Sometimes he kind of phones it in, but when he's good, he's very good.

That's true.

So we know who is in the pictures.

He was using to.

He didn't know where he was gonna use them.

He tried to use them in one situation and ends up using them with, with Maroney's, I guess, wife or he just.

He just had him around.

Oh, I'll just use a plan.

It's so funny that.

Yeah, he's just got him and I'm gonna use them somewhere.

So is this.

It's Johnny Viti.

With whose wife, exactly?

The bosses.

Right?

Was it Lucas?

Okay, maybe.

Oh, Luca Falcon's wife.

I think that could be the case.

I will be completely honest.

I watched this on Tuesday, and today I was like, what the hell happened in that episode?

Which might not be a good sign for how I feel about the series.

I had to backtrack.

But I think it was Lucas, right?

It could be.

It's a total shut up episode.

But I will say that it had some fun stakes.

Because you have the questions of, does Oz get out of this plant robbery at the beginning, will vic be able to plant the evidence before getting caught by the guard?

Will Sophia find out it's Oz?

And will Oz kill the decoy in the basement before anyone catches him?

And so it's a lot of that.

But after allowing all that to happen, you do see, or at least I did.

It's thin.

But you do see why Sophia could be trusting of someone who's absolutely.

Should not be trusted on this show.

If you're.

If you're gonna trust anyone, it should not be Colin Farrell's character.

Absolutely not.

But, yeah, I agree.

Like, you kind of.

There's almost a.

Like, it's not quite this, but like, this is a.

This is a total, like, tactical and strategic alliance.

It's an enemy of my enemy alliance, where it's like, it's not that I trust you, it's that I think we're aligned and maybe I can use you.

And of course, Oz is figuring out how he can use her.

Why would an actual Falcone like Sophia have anything to do with a guy who takes out the trash?

Right.

Other than push him around?

It's cause she's been dismissed and shit on too.

Yeah, exactly.

They have something in common there.

They're both feeling overlooked and disrespected.

Yeah, it could be intriguing on who Sophia has actually killed in her past.

Those seven people.

Girls.

It's a lot of people.

Yeah, it's seven.

Are they children?

Does she.

Young girls are women, but I don't think they've been more specific than that.

Yeah, because her cousin gives her a really freaked out look.

And it could just be that.

Hey, that, you know, that you're talking to my kid and not just me anymore.

Yeah, I'd be interested.

The victims are going to be.

I think it was that it was little kids, but it also could just be women.

Yeah.

Is she more evil than penguin evils?

Not really.

Even the war.

Is she more.

Well, we'll just go with it.

I know what you mean though, right?

Like penguins not going around shooting kids.

Yeah, he's slimy in a different way.

He'll make a kid go lay down in a grave.

Yeah, but that was, that was, that was just good teaching.

Yeah, that was a lesson.

Lesson.

Yeah.

Let me show you what it could happen to you.

We got to see Colin Farrell dancing or the ping oz dancing, which is great.

Yeah, we got to end the episode with him going, let's dance.

It's not a great television, but, man, there's just something about it.

I get what critics were on about.

I think now in this second episode.

I mean, having seen the second, I do think I'll watch the third probably.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And I think you're only total.

Yeah, there's only eight.

That's what I've been to.

Like, there's eight.

I'm a fourth of the way through and I'm enough in, like, let's see how this unfolds that, you know, and.

They have said no Batman at all.

I think we own my understandings.

Reviews basically only alluded to in that first episode news report.

And we're not going to see him again.

Well, we never.

Doesn't say anything about the Riddler, though.

No.

I would be interested to see or.

In the other, presumably Riddler's in Arkham right now, so who knows?

I don't trust that place.

There's something.

There's something creepy about that Arkham place.

You ever read the Grant Morrison Arkham Asylum?

No.

You should check it out.

Is he good?

Yeah, it's sold.

He did the.

Dave McKean did the artwork and he does Grant Morrison being, is a crazy person.

So Grant Morrison, one of my favorite comic book writers because they make me insane.

But they also, like, believe.

Like, they wrote this series called the Invisibles, and they made the main character look like themselves.

They realized that they were doing magic.

Right.

So if all these cool, good things were happening to one of the main characters, but then that character got a facial wound and Grant Morrison got a facial wound.

So Grant Morrison realized magic is powerful anyway.

Nutso person, really?

Uh, yeah, yeah.

He does.

He does Arkham Asylum as a.

Almost like a descent into the underworld.

It feels like with the Joker as the psycho pomp guide for Batman, it's actually pretty good.

It's worth checking out.

Arkham Asylum, a serious house on Sirius Earth.

Hmm.

Yep.

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We've reached the end of this week's episode of the podcast.

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Goodbye.