The Questions and Answers from 'The Bear' and 'Smoke' Debuts on Apple TV

Now he's released tracks, too, which is almost like whole albums.

It is.

It is over five hours long.

It is 83 songs.

And are some of them whole albums or could have been if he.

You've got whole albums in there.

A very few of it.

Like, there's a couple stuff that you might like.

Trying to think.

The only thing that popped into my head, there's, like, a different.

Ish version of My Hometown on there and everything else.

It could have been albums.

This is what's bonkers to me.

It's so cool that he put it out and we get to listen to it.

So much of this stuff, like, it's.

It's not bad, but, like, he didn't feel like it was good enough to go out as an album.

I've heard a few songs.

They're pretty good.

There's some good stuff on there.

It's just amazing viral marketing for the new film.

Yeah.

And of course, he's.

He's.

He's already talking up his new album, too, which he's always do, which is not bad.

I'm just.

Jeremy Allen White.

This is just the.

The podcast for him.

No, that does bring up a question I was going to ask you guys.

I didn't know if I was going to do it on mic or just in text form, but.

What did you think about the trailer for the Springsteen movie starring Jeremy Allen White, who we'll get to with the bear in a little bit?

But you've seen it, right?

I said it looks like a movie biopic.

It does, but, I mean, that was.

My feeling watching this.

Like, I've seen this.

I've got.

I've got thoughts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Adam, what do you think?

You know, I am kind of a sucker for these, especially when they.

Why are you laughing at me, Donovan?

I'm not allowed.

Well, I feel like we've walked down this road with Bob Dylan.

Okay, this is where I'm going.

This is exactly.

Okay, keep going.

Actually, moments in the trailer reminded me a bit of Love and Mercy where, like, Paul Dano was kind of instructed.

I mean, I know he studied, like, the tapes, like the.

You know, the famous outtakes from, like, Wouldn't it be nice where he's like, no, hit the drum like this.

Yeah.

It's got to go on.

Like he's trying how to do it.

And then they actually acted that out.

Yep.

And that was worth the price of admission for me.

Yeah, I.

There's some very low bar for how.

What will make me enjoy a music biopic.

So.

I love that movie.

Are we.

Are we biopic or biopics here?

I'm biopic.

Yeah, I think that's.

I think I've never actually really heard it said by anyone who seemed like they knew how it was said.

Yeah, I thought the trailer was fine.

It's going to be tough.

Anytime it's an actor that I already like playing in person that I like, that's tough.

And I.

In a way, Dylan is like the perfect figure to just be like.

He's such an abstraction to me anyway.

You know, even like when I have seen him in person on a stage, I'm like, that is like a mythical figure walking more than like a human.

And I think part of it is you pull the hat down low.

You know, he's always had a bit of a mysterious flair to him, whereas Springsteen, it's, you know, what Bruce looks like, that may be tougher to.

To forget.

I don't know.

We'll see.

That's it.

Yeah.

Is Jeremy Allen White.

He's not doing his own singing, right.

They're going to do Springsteen's vocals.

That I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know that either.

I mean, they were doing Springsteen's vocals for the trailer as.

As like a.

It's not a voice over, but the overarching sound of the trailer was Springsteen.

So I'm assuming.

And it looked like Jeremy Allen White was lip syncing.

And I think that paired with how I just could not see him as Springsteen, I couldn't squint and make it happen.

It's kind of weird.

I mean, there's an interesting story there.

There's a great story and I'm sure it'll be well acted and well written and it's going to be worth the price of admission, I would assume.

I'm almost going to have to go into it as if this is just about an artist.

I don't know.

Like this story.

This story is almost more divorced from the guy.

The Springsteen story.

Yeah, yeah.

Which I'm sure was fine, but with the Dylan movie biopic, you know, it was the same thing, same premise.

We got a snapshot of a part of his life and I and.

And Timothy Ch Voiced and played guitar.

Of course, Jim Hill looks like he's playing guitar, I'll give him that.

He definitely plays guitar.

You know, I don't know.

I just feel like Timothy really encapsulated Dylan and looked like him and kind of sort of sounded like him enough to.

Where I didn't have to squint.

I was just like Whoa, that's kind of young Dylan.

There's.

It is funny that Jeremy Allen White is.

Is playing him because he's already kind of.

He's done a few Heartland style things.

You know, like, the Bear is like a very Midwestern show.

Yeah.

He did the.

Remind me, the.

The wrestling movie title.

Is it the Iron Claw?

Yes.

Another very, like, heartland kind of Texas, right?

Yeah.

Kind of like Middle America.

He's kind of set up to play Bruce in a way.

Yeah.

That's the way I felt when I heard that he was cast.

It's like, yeah, that makes sense.

Which is not bad.

I'm just like, yeah, no, it fits.

Right.

Like, he's got that kind of affect about him.

I was surprised he didn't really try to put on a little bit more Bruce isms, Like maybe do the voice a little bit more or dyes hair.

It'll be interesting to see.

Yeah.

What.

What decisions are really made.

It is kind of nice, you know, like, when you look back through film history and you're like, why.

Why were there a bunch of this kind of movie made at that time?

And, like, I don't mind that we're in a couple years where we're getting like a Springsteen Anna Dillon version of this.

I'm not angry about spending time in the theater.

No.

For that.

Not at all.

If you guys will indulge me, I'll touch on Smoke from Apple tv.

Plus, this past weekend it debuted.

Thought it had potential in the trailer and the look of it alone, but as it turns out, it's another from Dennis Lehane, who also did the Apple series Blackbird, which I love.

That series still has one of the most resonant lines from TV I've heard in a long time.

When Ray Liotta's character as a father says, who knew that the love of your life would turn out to be your own kid?

And I just.

That's still.

I think about that one a lot.

Good writing from Lahain in that show.

So that drew me to Smoke.

It's written by Lahain, but it's based off a podcast called Firebug.

It's a true crime kind of thing.

Setup.

Is that an arsonist investigator?

That's.

Taryn Edgerton's character is forced to work with Journey Smollett's detective.

Do you remember her from Lovecraft Country?

What character was she?

Just the primary female protagonist.

Oh, her.

Yeah.

Yeah, she's really good.

Yeah, yeah, she's good.

So she plays the detective and she's brought in to help Solve what they think are two serial arsonists in the Pacific Northwest.

The opening theme kind of shocked me.

It's Dialing in by Tom York.

Are y' all familiar with that song?

I don't think so.

By name.

Off one of the solo records.

Yeah, that's one of the solo ones.

It could be.

I don't know if it was written for this show or not.

Not.

But I think it's been performed for a while.

Let's find out.

It was interesting.

You know, all shows these days do a cold open.

It's just.

It's just a given.

This one, I hit play and it was just Tom York singing.

It kind of caught me off guard.

Release 2025.

It is new.

Pretty new.

But I do think he may have performed it a little bit.

Anyway.

Apple released two episodes.

Kind of the thing for weekly releases.

Now you either release two or three of your first episodes.

And I've seen one.

And my assessment is it could.

It could get great.

It could get really good first episode.

There are threads that the show keeps at arm's length from you, or it's going to dole out in bits.

Perfectly fine.

Expected in a crime thriller or a true crime.

As we get to know characters as well.

It's kind of expected.

But there's just one telling scene in the opening episode where Journey Smollett's detective, Michelle Calderon, I think her name is.

She takes a lot of.

From a firefighter she's questioning where he's both racist and sexist.

And it was like, okay, well, maybe this show, this series, won't look away from how people really are as they mold some true crime into a fictional TV show.

And Taryn Edgerton, he's a good actor, by the way.

He.

He was not perfect in Blackbird.

Here, he's the arson investigator.

He used to be a firefighter.

He said arson investigator.

And he's.

He's forced to work with her.

This detective from the city.

He doesn't really want to, but he's not being a dick about it at all.

So he's kind of sort of in between.

I don't really need your help, but, you know, I will be nice to you.

I am just kind of interested in what.

He seems like a nice guy, so surely there's a secret there.

Anyway, could be good.

It's pretty good.

I don't love everything being, like, dumped at once.

I do actually kind of like the logic of you.

You put out the first two.

Yeah.

Or whatever.

Because it's really hard to just review one.

And I Feel like all you can really do is with the first episode is kind of what you just did, where you're like, here's the potential.

Yeah, but, you know, you can't predict.

It's really.

It's really.

You really have to get almost like halfway in to really feel confident.

It looks really good.

It's.

You know, they have to do a lot of sets with fire.

Of course.

Of course.

And it looks really good.

There's kind of a comedic thing going on with Taryn Edge Edgerton's character where he.

He kind of sort of wants to be a writer, and he's trying to phrase things writerly, and he's not.

He's not a writer.

He's not good at not.

Not yet.

That's funny.

We'll stick with non spoilers here, since I'm the only one I think to have seen stick its recent episode, episode 6 is RV Shangri La.

I think it may warrant a short discussion next week if we catch up with 6 and 7.

All I'll add is that this sixth episode, it sort of addressed issues and ideas we were about last week.

You know, if there's a reality where they heard our podcast and then made this episode, you'd be like, okay, finally.

Yeah.

I'm gonna be fascinated to hear what you guys think, because everything we said last week, it was like, oh, there it is.

There it is.

Okay.

I mean, we've essentially now petitioned television 247 times and they finally listen.

Oh, wait, we are on episode 247.

Whoa.

I was wondering where you got that number.

You like how I pulled that?

Yeah, Well, I number every.

It's the upper left of the screen.

Yes, it is.

Damn it, Donovan.

I kind of wanted to.

I'm coming in a little hot.

I just finished caught up with where we were supposed to be for the bear.

And as I finished that episode, I thought, man, I could use a stick chaser right now.

Yeah.

It's a funny thing to be discussing these two shows because they are not the same pace, to say the least.

No, a stick is a show that's not afraid to ask.

Do you like to golf?

I really liked Owen Wilson in this recent episode, and we've talked about him a ton.

But in this most recent one, I was like, no.

I even like it more now.

I can't wait for y' all to watch it.

Yeah, you've already brought it up.

It's June.

One way to check to know that it's late June is see if Carm's revising the Menu again.

That's right.

Is this a June tradition?

It's.

Well, isn't it?

It's like every June they drop.

Well, the last two years, they drop.

Every episode of the Bear gets dumped on us like a bowl of cold soup all at once at Hulu.

Shame on them.

This is a show that deserves an episode per week.

Or two episodes.

Maybe three because it's shorter.

I'll say two.

I agree.

But I don't love the Dump.

Yeah.

Which I mean, of course I'd watch.

Three in a row, but five weeks.

Yeah.

Two episodes per week.

That's reason.

That would be so much better.

So much better.

It just gives you time to digest, you know.

But, you know, we're in the minority.

Other than critics.

Yes, other than TV critics.

We are in the minority.

People want the dump.

People want.

Yeah, yeah.

They want the Netflix model.

I saw that episode of Somebody somewhere.

But don't you think so I feel like there has been a.

And we've discussed this multiple times as slow.

I didn't even notice it was happening.

Now when I hear that something's on Netflix and this show is not on Netflix, but I immediately think, is the show good?

Yeah, like, I still pay for Netflix, but.

And I like stuff that comes on there and I've enjoyed the original content.

I think it's still a great service.

But yes, that stands on the other side.

You've got Apple tv, which I am now have a complete Pavlovian response to think that is going to be higher caliber television.

Yes.

And I wonder, a show like the Bear getting released, dumped all at once, like, it just makes me think of Netflix and in a way, I don't value what I'm seeing as much.

Exactly, Exactly.

It just seems to be more and more entrenched as time goes on, is what I'm saying.

I walked into the living room and my wife was watching the Waterfront off of Netflix.

It's kind of the buzzed about the show.

And I said, is this any good?

It's got the guy from Mind Hunter as the dad.

And I love Mind Hunter, the.

The older cop or FBI agent.

I like that.

I think his name is Holt Mcinally.

Holt Ma.

Yeah, He's a great actor.

Really good actor.

And I.

I walked through and I said, is this any good?

And she shrugged her shoulders.

She says, it's okay.

I said, isn't it kind of Ozark but on the water?

And she said, meh.

Kind of.

I said, isn't this every Netflix show though?

Isn't.

Aren't they all just okay.

And she said, yeah, like she watches almost every Netflix buzzed about show.

And as I walked through the living room or bedroom where she's taking it in folding clothes or whatever, I'll.

I'll think, but is it.

It can't be that good, right?

This is not an original thought to me, but I, you know, I think we talked about it earlier.

There's a.

From last year, a good New York Times piece about meh tv.

Like, is it good?

Is it bad?

It's.

It's me.

Yeah.

And then of course, something I.

And I do really agree coincident with this is, you know, this is.

So many of this stuff is like made to be like half paid attention to.

Sadly, you know, it doesn't re.

It doesn't reward engagement.

In fact, if you're engaged with it, you'll probably be annoyed because it's like, why are they explaining what they're doing again?

And the funny thing is this is coming off the heels of Donovan and I dissecting Department Q.

And we loved it.

Occasionally they'll throw a fastball.

Adolescence is phenomenal.

And neither of the.

Another one Apartment Q could have benefited from.

Not the Dump plays like a show that asks you to, like, actually care about it when you, like, have different characters and have to remember who they are in relation to each other instead of someone walking in.

Like, I remember him, the man who pushed his wife down the stairs, you know.

Yeah.

As you heard, my favorite.

As you probably already know, the defendant pushed his wife down the stairs.

When Netflix first started doing this or when they first went streaming, I remember asking so many people, why don't they do a recap?

Why, like, I didn't, you know, it's been two days since I've watched the show.

Why don't.

I can't remember.

I actually worked with.

I believe her dissertation is published now.

But when I was at UConn, one of the communication grad students was studying Bing in people's relationships to which was.

It was a fun project to work on because there's not like a definition of like a binge watch.

Yeah.

So you kind of have to come up with all that yourself, but just literally studying the differences in people between this.

A binge watch.

And then like, you sit down and watch one episode of something and there's a difference, you know.

So she was finding research and that was six years ago.

Delaying gratification is the big thing.

It's just even.

Yeah.

Well, if you want.

I don't know what the research says.

That's Kind of my thought is like, maybe.

Maybe getting everything you want all the time isn't actually good for you, you know?

Do you guys have some non spoiler thoughts on the bear before we take a break for spoilers?

This show dares to ask the question, do you like to yell?

I thought you were gonna say, are you hungry?

Yeah.

See, it's funny that you bring that up because there is a scene where they're, like, discussing a dish, and Carm tastes it and he says, it's perfect.

And I'm like, I need a little something on the screen.

Just tell me what the hell that is.

Oh, it was a scallop.

Shame on me.

I wasn't paying attention.

The only reason I know that's the title of the episode.

Okay.

I was like, I don't know what I'm looking at here.

I think the biggest non spoiler question has to be, do we need this show again?

That's a good question.

But I think we do this time because it left us hanging with so many questions last time.

I think the question might be, is it better than last season?

Because last season, people had problems with it, including Adam.

I think Donovan and I liked it a little better than Adam, and I think so.

Yeah.

Donovan and I thought there were a few standout episodes at Adam.

The.

Especially the.

The mom episode where she was in the delivery room with Sugar from season three.

Adam didn't like that one.

Very good one.

Yeah.

Donovan and I thought it was fantastic.

But, Adam, you tell me, is this season so far gonna be better?

Maybe.

I think shows that burn really bright also can burn out really fast.

Yes.

I don't.

And things that put such a.

There's such an immediacy to all of their goals and to all of the things driving the plot.

You know, it's always like, attempting not to drown.

Not just like, how can I make my life better.

It's like, this is, like, make or break kind of stuff.

And I think that's exhausting as a viewer, Maybe this show, in a way, kind of came in the wake of the pandemic and was like, it really does.

I don't know how to describe that time.

It's not like it was like we're watching it in 2020, but it's.

It still occupies this space where life wasn't totally normal again and shows held this great importance and, like, it still insists upon itself in that way.

And I was curious going into this season, am I going to.

I mean, I honestly sat down and pulled the first episode up, and we looked at it and we said, I don't know if I have the stomach to be that stressed right now.

And we ended up watching something else.

Obviously we got around to it, but there's like a bit of a I'm going to like this.

I think I've loved the other seasons, even though I had problems with the last one.

Apparently you guys are reminding me.

But.

It'S, there's still the moment of like, do I want to do this again?

It's like setting out the door for a run.

You don't always want to do it.

You know what I mean?

Oh boy, do I could set up for our spoiler section to come.

What we'll do is we'll take a 30 second break, might remind you something on the website and we'll talk spoilers only about the Bear this week.

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Thanks.

Yeah, we got the bear returning for fourth season where its previous season felt like it may be setting up a final season, or at least want to resolve some issues.

First episode we'll probably go mostly in order, mostly I think, but we're only talking about the first three episodes of season four.

That first episode really revolved around the review, which was not great, but it was not bad.

It certainly wasn't what Carm and a lot of the others wanted.

Everyone's angry, hurt, afraid, or just trying to help those who are more so than they are.

Adam and Don, when I have a question for you.

Have you ever had a bad review?

Especially if it's something that you've put your heart into?

If I could remember the name of the reviewer in Arrested Development that gives Tobias's bad review.

I didn't get into this job to please software whatever her name is.

Stacy.

That would be my answer.

Yeah.

Adam, this might be more of a question for you.

You are a artist, musician, artist in other ways too.

But, yeah, I mean, you have to.

I think sometimes when people complain about bad things being said about them, you kind of have to remind them, well, at least you were worth complaining about.

You know what I mean?

So I have not been a part of many things that were poorly reviewed.

Good.

But I mean, it definitely.

It feels.

Or somebody.

Like.

I remember one person talking about a delaray song and saying, oh, it's just too repetitive.

And it's like, well, that was the point.

Like, you just didn't get the.

So there.

There have been times where.

But never, never with the stakes that are presented here, of course.

What.

I guess outside of the realm of art, I've experienced poor reviews.

Like, sometimes when I come home from work, I can tell my cats are very disappointed in me.

I thought you were going to say your job performance is just horrible.

They tell you every.

Every quarter.

Look, you've got to pick it up or fire.

Like my.

My approach to my job is the same as my approach to school.

Cs get degrees.

The episode one also reminds us of so much grief at hovers over the proceedings.

Sidney asks Harm if he likes dysfunction, and that's all he's seen growing up.

He says no.

He says no.

But I think that a lot of us, while we know we obviously don't like stress and we don't like chaos, it's deeply ingrained in us.

And change is scarier than the chaos.

That's what I thought was the best element of this first episode is.

And.

And at first I was like, okay, there's a little too much yelling here.

I'm getting.

I feel like I see what you're doing.

But then I realized that, like, the.

Yeah, the chaos and the confusion, it's a reminder that so many of us are in situations where we're like, I.

I hate feeling like this.

Why am I doing this?

But to take that step back and Be like, the stuff that I assumed is normal that are just my ingrained responses to things that might be the issue.

And I thought there was a good, like, start at, like.

Like, Carm.

Like what.

Like, what are you.

What are your ingrained responses to maybe looking at that?

Because Sid is right.

She is right.

He is creating situations that are chaotic because that's what he grew up in.

That's what his work has been.

You know, he doesn't know how to approach.

Probably doesn't know how to approach work without feeling stressed out about it.

Yeah.

And he hasn't been back to Al Anon since, what, Season one.

He hasn't done anything to try to change or fix or better him.

His own internal issues.

So he is reliving the same as we.

Mr.

Bill Murray shows up there.

He is reliving the same day over and over again.

Right.

He's running or running the Red Queen's race.

I think they're using how long we've been watching these characters to make an interesting point that it just kind of dawned to me while y' all talked.

It seems like certain characters who are more grounded and maybe have.

Whether it's upbringing or the work that they've done previous to us meeting them as time goes on.

Somebody like Sidney.

I don't know what's in store for her for the rest of the season, but the first few episodes, she seems just kind of above the noise that's happening.

And obviously she's wrestling with her own decisions about committing to the restaurant, all of this stuff.

The characters that continue to get sucked into the chaos are kind of.

They seem more and more.

It seems childish as time goes on versus people who are trying to move forward.

Does that make sense?

I think there's at least a suggestion.

I think I agree with you, Adam.

I do think that there's at least a suggestion that part of Sid's attitude comes from.

She has actually a good relationship with her father.

Like, obviously, like, her mother died.

But, like, that's a place of, like, safety and stability.

Yeah.

Whereas, like, some of the more chaotic people either just don't.

They don't have that in their family background.

Right.

It is hard to get over.

It is childish in the sense that, like, you gotta put away childish things.

Right.

But the.

The way that, you know, I'm sure that we've all experienced this with different friend groups over time.

High school, college, whatever, where you are together at a time and you're all bringing your own shit to the table.

But then as time goes on, small Differences just grow wider and wider.

Right.

And I think that's what's interesting here is like who, who has grown more away from the mean in season one.

Yeah.

I actually think this is complete side.

But the one of the characters, maybe it's just because I like him but I think I've really liked Richie's growing away because he has really like tried to step up and take responsibility in a big way and kind of become someone else without losing who he originally was.

So he's almost, you know, I know he's kind of, he's kind of on the edge here, but he's actually like.

I, I like the way he's being played, I guess is what I mean by that.

When he even says I know a lot of you.

Everybody knows I've been doing some work on myself or whatever he said.

Yeah, exactly.

Seems like mildly embarrassed and they're like, yeah, we get it.

Yeah.

And it was, it was fun.

He's good at doing that too.

Something everybody.

I'm admitting something everybody knows and I'm embarrassed about it.

Like he's so good at the actor.

What's his name?

Bacharach.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sidney seems to be devolving from where she started though in season one by being around Carm in this environment at the Bear.

There's parts of her and she has to be because she keeps questioning, should I sign the contract?

Should I pick up the call from Shapiro about his restaurant?

Am I stressed enough to leave.

These people gotta start answering the phone.

And dads of the world stop leaving voicemails that say call me.

Just text that for real.

One of the best ways to set up some conflict for viewers is to.

Is to put your characters on a clock.

And I'll be damned.

The first episode doesn't just literally bring in a clock that was.

This was almost like the bear paint by numbers I was complaining about in the spoiler free section.

This is.

I mean you want strange strong framework for however many episodes.

There you go.

I think that Adam had a good point with what you were talking about in the non spoiler.

Whereas all of the react.

Sorry, all of the action in the Bear pretty much is mostly reaction.

You know, it's all.

Some people kind of.

There's.

There's some individual things that is not reaction.

But like the main plot is usually driven by.

It's a reaction.

Yeah.

To what?

Whatever has just been introduced as the latest wrinkle.

Yeah.

Like Richie bringing in the three people from the other restaurant that had closed.

They're going to get them in better shape.

The score is kind of reminiscent of 80s action movies, which implies.

I say, you like the training.

The training montage.

There's going to be a fight.

Yeah.

But then again, the bear does some wonderfully poignant things like little screen time here.

But Carm still text Mikey.

Yeah.

And that hit.

That was a gut punch.

That.

That was actually devastatingly sad.

God, it was.

I've never.

Maybe I'm just an idiot.

I've never seen someone express that.

Like, you know, we've seen movies and stuff where like I'm writing a letter to someone who's.

Who's passed or what.

But like something about like the immediacy of the text message that will never ever be answered.

Yeah.

That just says not received.

Like that's just heartbreaking.

That was a good shot.

He smiles after he sends it too.

Yeah.

Right.

Which is an interesting signifier for where he is in his journey with grief.

It seems like he's figuring a lot out about himself as the episodes go on.

I thought that was to piggyback on what you said, Don.

I thought that was a really good touch there.

Little realization that no one ever leaves you.

Yeah.

It does seem, and this is pulling out on all three, that Carm this season so far is at least a little bit more.

He's also doing some work on himself, which seems good.

He's trying to work some self awareness, but also the understanding of what they all have together.

He's trying to impart what the restaurant means or could mean to other people, which is kind of what you were saying, Blaine.

You're never really alone.

He.

Later he'll tell Marcus, you're never alone in a restaurant.

Speaking of people who have it together, I think Marcus is the most stable with his.

I.

I agree.

But he's having.

He's having some kind of trouble dessert with his prep area.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, he.

I don't know if that's like a real problem or it's just like he.

Just needs some help.

They can't quite get it under in the time frame they're.

They've Now.

Yeah.

So I.

I don't know if that's going to.

Because other than that, I agree he's probably the most.

Cindy's pretty stable, but.

Yeah.

But I do think she's devolving.

I think she's starting to lose a little of her stability.

Well, she's so close to Carmen's.

Yeah, she is in a lot of ways.

Not just emotionally, but like he is the driver of the chaos by his continued decision to constantly change the menu.

Not even metaphorically.

Like, she's literally dealing with that kind of chaos as.

As a chef.

Because he's constantly changing the menu.

Yep.

Side by side with him.

I just have so many questions about that constantly changing menu and, like, how this restaurant is operating to begin with.

It sounds really difficult, like, even to, like, work with suppliers, right?

Yeah, it'd be impossible.

Yeah.

I'm not a restaurateur, so I don't.

It's just the.

But there's a thing that happens in episode three where it made me say out loud, how many people work at this restaurant?

So there's that and there's the constantly changing menu.

And if someone came.

If the financier came in and put a clock down and said, you're closing.

If you don't figure this stuff out in time, why does everyone not just look at Carm and go, okay, funds over.

We have five things on the menu that we do exceedingly well.

Let's just do them every day for a week.

I mean, everybody knows right now the only thing that's doing well.

So sandwiches.

Any thoughts before we move into episode two a little more deeply?

Any thoughts on opening with.

With Mikey and Carm?

As Carm makes the sauce there at.

Home, I wondered when it opened, like how this is like a maybe a callous thing to say, how much they can keep going back to that.

I wondered that too.

No, I kind of have the same reaction.

Yeah.

And I was trying to figure out, what is it you're trying to present to me with this interaction that I don't already know.

Say you were cast as, like the dead older brother.

You know, you would think, like, I'm probably in a few flashback scenes.

He's very much a part of this show.

You know, when you really think about how much screen time has happened in the before times air quotes around that.

But even though I questioned it, it's still a clever way to.

You know, you're living an interior life with all of them and especially Carmen Richie.

These are like shared foundational experiences that you're kind of zooming in and out of and you get a little more context every time.

I don't love that they dole out information that's important a little.

You know what I mean?

Like, why would we not just tell us that?

Just tell us that they had already had this idea and he wanted to name it this.

And yeah, this is what let it.

You know, it gives even more context to that season one let it rip thing.

I'm very Curious why they haven't shown us Mikey in his addiction.

I don't think they've ever shown us really that you don't get the truth.

Right.

Are we supposed to.

Like, you're always in someone.

Yeah.

But he never seems like he's nearing a bottom.

Yeah.

Or a death.

I always kind of assume with that is really the two places we see him are at home and at work.

And at work he can be one person and at home he can be another.

And to me it's.

Knowing what we know from the beginning.

It's really clear that this is.

There's an abyss that he's covering up.

Right.

It might be more effective.

Yeah.

These are both Persona.

I think what.

What Adam said about, like, this is important information.

Why don't you just tell us?

It comes off to me as like, oh, it's because you didn't know it before last season.

You know what I mean?

Almost like this is not the same thing.

But like in the Sopranos when Steve Buscemi shows up and it's like, hey, this cousin we never heard about.

It turns out to be Steve Buscemi.

It's like, that's because you didn't know it in the first season.

And that's fine.

But I think you can kind of, I don't know.

Hit Diminishing Returns.

Ye.

Of course.

I love.

You can only go back to that.

Well.

Scene.

Right.

That's what I'm saying.

I love when things are revealed in the natural course of.

Maybe a character does some digging on how they're feeling about something and it occurs to them that they're influenced by this experience they had.

That's great.

You don't have to tell me everything.

But when you continually go back.

Diminishing Returns is the perfect way to put it.

Donovan.

It does somewhat compare unfavorably to what I thought was a good use of Mikey last season in Tina's episode.

That really focuses.

Fantastic.

That's one of the best episodes.

Yeah.

And part of that is because we're not seeing Carm.

We're seeing him through someone else's understanding.

That's right.

And I.

And I think that was that.

That worked very well.

This one.

It didn't teach us anything we didn't already know.

From the Feast of the Seven Fishes.

Right.

From their interaction there.

Episode two is.

What's this word?

Soupies.

Soup Subisi.

What it says.

Starts with some pretty vague scenes.

Get you a little interested maybe.

And that's fine.

I suppose there were times where I wondered why, if it shouldn't just show us what it's talking about.

But the most important element of early in episode two is this one illusion that Carm might be giving up some control without any reservations to Sydney because he's falling out of love with cooking and being a chef.

You know, his phone conversation with Sugar taps into something that.

I'm curious if others feel that happiness can be really scary if you're not used to it.

For me, it's because I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I'm like, I'm really happy right now.

When's that gonna end?

And I think that's part of Carm.

He's a bit zombied out.

Even, I would say in episode two especially, he can't even follow Sidney, that they are no longer getting the same amount of groceries to cook.

Remember that scene where he's like.

I was like, is he really that bad at math?

I think he's just.

I honestly think he's zombied out.

I think he's just like.

The man needs a nap.

Yeah, for sure.

It was also funny that, like, Sidney has worked with him long enough to, like, size up the situation and be like, you have 10 apples.

You know what I mean?

Like, to explain to this child how budgeting works.

It's also the episode where cousin Richie comes to talk to Carm at the end of the night, and it has turned into mourning.

It's so well filmed because it's cast in that blue hue, you know, that gives us viewers without a lot of fireworks at Carms in that liminal space of maybe being done with the business without really knowing he's done.

And it's also depressive in that blue hue.

But Richie says, tomorrow is today, and I think that's pretty in line.

They love that thin line window between the kitchen.

God, they love it.

Yeah.

It's cool, though.

It is cool.

It's a great effect.

It's fun to have a character like Richie coming in, too, in a moment like that and just being like, is this performative?

What a line.

Yeah.

You know, like.

And it is good, right?

Because there's the.

I don't think I can adequately explain this, but, like, you were living.

They love that liminal space, like, you pointed out.

And you could just have, like, a recreation of, like, the Nighthawks painting or something.

But to have someone come in and say, like, what are you doing here?

And then I think it works with Richie, too, who's.

Who's kind of on the edge in some ways.

He really needs this to work because this is what he's built his personality around.

Lately.

Richie feels his feelings the most.

Maybe he loves Taylor Swift because he.

Really break from her right now.

He relished moving into episode three, Scallop.

He relished being able to provide that moment for the family from la.

Yeah.

And it was sweet.

Yeah, it's a sweet moment because he feels his feelings, you know, as we maybe.

Maybe more than others.

And he just enjoyed that.

You could tell.

I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much, but you can almost see, like, I hope somebody does this for my daughter.

Yeah, it's a good payoff too, for what they talk about to start episode one where Carm is like, well, all of our best memories happen in restaurants.

You know, it's a safe place to go.

And I have to admit, I love good food.

I get it.

But there are moments where I'm like, guys, yes, we're gonna shit this out.

You know what I mean?

I would imagine strongly disagree with that, I'm sure.

But so there.

All the stress, it's like this is artificial in a way, you know, like you could.

The world is not going to fall apart if this restaurant closes.

Right.

But then to have all of that cynicism and kind of detachment from some of the emotions driving the story just kind of punched me in the gut.

On episode three where all of that came together for that family, of course, wink, wink.

The guy watching this all happen, the other customer.

But it's still.

When they all came out to look at the.

The snow was really sweet.

It was me.

You know, they're really.

They're not making anything that's lasting.

Right.

Their.

Their product or their.

Whatever.

Their art is really ephemeral.

You're gonna eat it.

It's gonna go away.

So what they're, you know, and it.

I mean, it's.

It's overly silly, but I think they underline that, like, you're.

You're dealing in like.

Like moments.

And that's something that you can't like, point.

It's so abstract and say.

Exactly.

Like you can't like quantify it, but that.

That you're.

You're.

What you're dealing with is like your ability to like, understand, interact with and delight another human being.

I think the sommelier that's kind of given the crash course on wine to sweeps.

Yeah.

Said it so well when she said, you know, this is a.

Does she say it's a snapshot.

Yeah.

Of how much it rained, what the summer was like, what the.

The soil with all These things, you're like, okay, that.

That is worth valuing, you know?

And I.

It's funny for me to be saying all this as someone who, like, grows food, you know, but.

Well, you feel it a little, don't you?

Maybe.

Maybe on a very smaller scale.

It's.

It's like a class thing with food like this.

Right.

And that.

Like, yeah, like, who is this really for?

You know, and it.

And it is for special occasions.

You don't eat there three times a week.

Are you kidding me?

I go to that beef window three times a week now.

That's.

That's what's so funny.

And I think maybe what grounds the vision is that they are shown to still understand the value of, like, a working class lunch.

And, like, this.

This thing making people feel good, keeping things afloat.

Right.

And it's.

It's keeping it afloat.

It's not denigrated in any way.

And in fact, it's celebrated.

So I bet a lot of restaurateurs, Michelin star people, or even people who open restaurants just in general in your local community do probably think that the memories made there are that important.

I'm with Adam.

I think Adam was about to say, my memories, my favorite memories did not happen in a restaurant.

I don't think any of them did.

To me, the ones that did.

I think of a place like this is very Tuscaloosa centric, but I go into like, oh, hooligans.

You know what I mean?

And like, how many times I said in there with, like, it becomes important, but it.

There was no single event, you know?

Yeah.

And then, so, yeah, maybe for some people.

Yeah, I.

I get what they're saying, but I have to.

Yeah.

When they said that line, I was like, no, not for me.

Yeah.

But hey, for some, don't come for us foodies.

Yeah, please don't.

I have so many friends that would, like, just nod along to that scene.

Like, yeah, yeah, I totally get that.

And then I realize.

And that's great.

Yeah, no, that's great.

But no, here's the thing.

Do I believe it?

No.

Do I believe that these characters believe it?

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

But it still has, to Donovan's point, about how abstract it is, that that has to be pinging around the back of their heads.

Right.

Like, no matter how great the scallop dish is, they're not gonna hang it on the wall at a museum.

You know what I mean?

Exactly.

It's going to go away.

It's meant to be.

It's literally meant to Be consumed.

What are your thoughts about this?

Same episode, Oliver Platt's uncle talking to the door to his son and telling him how bad his character's fucked up as a dad and that the kid deserves better.

While Donna Bersado, real estate agent.

Donna Brisado, I should say, shows off their home.

It's kind of.

She's like downstairs in the kitchen while.

He'S doing this, which I didn't piece together for a minute.

You know, saw this representative of a new start.

But then I hit me.

Oh, wait.

He's having to sell his home because he's still trying to keep the restaurant afloat.

Yeah.

Also, I don't know that I knew Donna Brigado was a real estate agent.

This was a reveal, right?

I think it was.

It was a big one.

Yeah.

We just thought she was crazy.

We didn't know she could harness that.

Well, we don't know that she has yet.

That's true.

This is not a spoiler at all, but it's kind of funny.

There's another real estate moment with another character in episode five, I think, but another real estate.

For some reason.

Who knew?

I do think that they are.

There's a payoff happening with all these characters working on themselves and it actually affecting the business, the work they do.

Yeah.

And the fact that it, you know, if you are Carm and you start pulling on a string and it leads you to realize that this thing you've devoted yourself to, maybe you've moved beyond in a way.

What does that look like?

Does that mean you.

And I'm sure the season will answer that.

So it's funny to try to forecast what's going to happen, but maybe he doesn't get there if he doesn't.

If he's not thinking about who he is and what matters to him.

And I think all the characters have some version of that that's setting up a much.

That's like real change.

Right.

Instead of just like, I want to do the like, reactionary change like Donovan was talking about earlier.

Wondering if they're steering into that too, just with like, him going to talk with Claire.

And I do think they did a good job of like, often the reason I hurt you is that I feel bad, but that's never the justification.

So like, he can come and say, like, I, I didn't feel good and so I did this to you.

That doesn't justify it.

And so just kind of her kind of letting him say his.

His piece, but then not like absolving him necessarily was.

I think I feel like, the thread there was like, if I feel bad, I do things that without meaning to harm others.

If I'm in this chaos and dysfunction, which is.

He was literally in the middle of it when he's locked in the.

And that's a real thing.

And that's where all that.

That's where all that came from.

That's a real thing.

I think the.

Yeah.

One of the questions this season should answer, and hopefully Will, is Carm relinquishing some control because he's given up or because he's improving himself or both.

And that might even trickle down to answer some other questions.

Will Sidney sign the agreement?

Does.

Will they get a Michelin star and, you know, those kinds of things?

And.

Yep.

You know, and he is already thinking these.

It's been revealed, like, he's wondering, like, is my heart really still in this?

But he's also saying, you're never alone at a restaurant.

Like, I think he loves the people around him, however he chooses to express that.

But then the look that he gives Sidney when she does the dish that Tina's been working on to get down under a certain amount of time, and he says, well, I couldn't even do that under three minutes.

And she does it in two and a half.

Yeah, there's some.

Like, maybe I could best serve this by not having to do everything, you know?

Yeah.

By not being the be all, end all box kind of.

Yeah.

And that may be where it's going.

We'll see probably a lot more from the bear next week.

Could very well happen from us.

As for us, I think we've said our peace, and this is the end of our episode.

For Adam and Donovan, I'm Blaine, and we hope you don't burn yourself on the grill this week.

Take care, folks.