Welcome to Derry: The Horror That Continues Giving and Connects to Real Life Scares

Hey, what's up?

That's him.

There he is.

That's me.

He's my friend.

He's an editor at the Alabama Take a big hand in the Alabama Take.

He one of the many folks who helped me and others get the site going again years ago.

On top of that, he's the host of his very own podcast, the very funny and very popular We Are a Star Wars.

That's a stretch.

Well, I think it's probably our most popular one.

You right?

You sure about that?

We get the most comments from it.

I've seen your numbers.

Well.

You'Re just being humble.

Those are bolstered from me hitting play.

And I hear you.

Silent.

I hear you.

It's coriander there.

Corey, it's wonderful to see you again.

You too, man.

I don't see you quite enough.

A little long since we talked.

How you doing?

I'm hanging in there, man.

Working hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's supposed to be.

Supposed to get out with the boys in a couple days.

I don't know if we're.

If we're recording or if we're just hanging out.

Make them record something.

If I know Jim, we're gonna record something.

Yeah, just record.

Hello, everyone.

We are a Star War We.

If you.

If you do listen to our show, you all know that we are usually just kind of winging it.

It's.

It's.

The show is an excuse for three best friends to get together and hang out every couple months and.

Yeah.

Have a couple libations and maybe talk about Star Wars.

It's.

It's loose, it's freewheeling.

Could be about any Star wars topic.

No chronological order to it.

It's just fun.

Yeah.

It's whatever we want to talk about, we do try to do when a new series comes out.

We try to stay kind of current if we can and talk about those shows.

But, for example, we've had an episode recorded for three months at this point, probably about Return of the Jedi that I just haven't edited and put out yet.

We've had a couple other things come up.

We did a couple shorties around Halloween that were a lot of fun.

So, yeah, that episode will come out eventually.

Return of the Jedi, you know, it's not timely.

No rush there.

No rush.

That's my first movie to see in the theater.

You know, it was not my first, but it was definitely an early experience, and I've talked about it on the show a few times.

I remember my mom reading Jabba's lines to me.

I can do Dude.

Oh.

How about that?

My dad read them to me, and my.

The whole family went.

Because that's what you did back then.

Sure.

And my sister, who's four years older than me, got sick, and they had to take her to the bathroom.

They didn't.

They were very nice about not making us leave, and I think she felt better.

And they sat in the back just in case.

Oh, yeah.

It was a very sweet moment.

Yeah.

Amory, Mississippi, have you watched this current season of the Challenge, Vets and new Threats?

We have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're caught up on it.

Yeah, Same here.

What are your thoughts?

Every year I tell myself that I'm out and I'm not gonna watch anymore.

Oh, really?

And then I end up watching it again because it's one of Jamie's favorite things ever.

And so, like, midway through the season, I'm usually back in.

And it's.

It's pretty fun because this time, you know, it's all, like, newer folks in the Challenge.

You know, it's not, like, bananas and some of the old heads.

Sure, yeah.

But it's kind of fun seeing newer people in it, even though sometimes, like, the newer folks get on my nerves.

But it's.

It's.

It's an interesting season, for sure.

Yeah.

The newer folks are an adjustment.

A little.

Yeah.

We won't spoil anything because we're not on the spoiler side, but what you.

How are you grading this season?

It's fine.

It's probably a B. Yeah.

I'm giving it a C plus.

I'll take that, too.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's about right.

It's not.

It's just not my favorite.

And to say more would be spoiling it, I guess.

But did I say too much about who was in the finale, or.

No, you didn't mention the finale.

Well, I just meant, like, where we are in the season.

Oh, no.

Okay.

You're fine.

I think I would have heard it.

But.

But yes, if you are watching the Challenge live, they are in the middle of their finale, so it's winding down.

We used to keep up with it quite a lot on our podcast, but we found that those were not necessarily the most popular episodes.

But that's okay.

It's.

It's.

It's an acquired taste.

And.

And you mentioned Jamie.

Jamie's your wife.

Yeah, my lovely wife.

And Jamie, who also hosts check your shelf when we're trying to get her to tell us more about books again soon to resurrect it.

Yeah, I can't wait.

I hope she does.

Anyway, so As a listener, you're familiar with how we do things here.

We begin with ideas and notions about a show or movie without ruining it for anyone who may be on the fence or.

Or watching it and maybe behind.

Or maybe they haven't started it yet.

This week, you and I, we're only doing the one.

It's the HBO Sunday night series It.

Welcome to Derry.

Created, written, handled by the same creators who did the two most recent movies about five or six years ago, I think.

I don't think I knew that.

Yeah, I think it's pretty much the same crew.

Cool.

It Chapter One and It Chapter Two, they were called.

And of course, it's all based on the Stephen King novel Just It.

How big of a Stephen King fan reader?

Well, it's funny you should ask.

Up until very recently, the only thing of his I had read was I read two of the stories from the short story collection Different Seasons.

I read the Body, which became the movie Stand By Me, and I read Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption after I had seen the movie, of course.

So I read both of those when I was in college.

And two of those aren't really horror.

Correct.

They're more teenage nostalgia, almost.

Yeah.

Yeah, almost.

Well, yeah, for sure, for sure.

But because I. I loved the movie Stand By Me when I was a kid.

So when I was in college and I saw.

I saw the Shawshank Redemption right at the end of high school, I think, and into college.

Anyway, whatever.

So I read those.

And then my wife is just a huge Stephen King fan.

She.

To this day.

To this day.

And so she's read a bunch of them and it is one of her favorite books of all time.

Until very recently, she said that there's another King book that may be tied for number one.

So we should have had Jamie on.

Yeah, we should have.

Should have.

But there's only one Mike in here.

I didn't.

I didn't really think.

But so anyway, yeah, several months ago I told her because I've been reading a lot more this year.

She.

I told her I wanted her to pick a Stephen King book for me to read, and her choice was a book from a few years ago.

It's a short book.

I read it in three or four hours.

It's called Elevation and Excellent, fantastic book.

I was glad that was the one she picked for me.

And then I started reading the Dark Tower series and I've basically blown through the first three books and I'm about to start 1122 63.

Wow.

So all that to say I have a phobia of clowns.

You and 70% of America.

Yeah.

So I kind of have been working through that in the last several years.

I saw it.

Like really?

Yeah, yeah.

Because I, when the it remake came out a few years ago, the trailer would just absolutely grabbed me and I was like, I might have to watch this.

So I watched it and then of course watched part two and then I watched the miniseries from the 80s.

So I watched it live.

Oh really?

I didn't mess you up as a kid.

It was fascinating.

Yeah.

See, I'm okay with clowns as long as they're on TV or at a, or at a hundred yard distance.

When they come up and start talking to me, I'm like, I'm, I'm weirded out.

I'm running, I'm shooting my pants.

Yeah.

And that checks out.

That checks out.

So yeah, that's where I am.

I like it couldn't have been better timing for this series to drop for me.

I was like.

And now I think after I finish I probably won't be able to start 112263 for a couple more weeks because of my work schedule.

But hopefully over Christmas break I'm going to read it and then.

Or yeah, I'm going to read 112263 and then I think I'm going to read it.

You're one of the few people I know who came about King in reverse order.

I, I think every one of us King readers started around 11 or 12.

Way too young to be reading.

Excuse me.

I think that's what happened with Jamie.

Yeah, yeah.

Killing and sex.

But yeah, I can remember being taken to the mall.

My parents letting me roam alone in the mall.

And I went straight to the bookstore.

I went straight to the King section and I, and I would stare at the ones that I wanted to read, flip through the ones I thought I might want to read and, and I would come away with some at, at times.

I read the Stand like three times.

It's.

Oh, I did watch that series recently.

Yeah, I haven't read the book.

You know, it's, it's a product of its time.

It was good, I enjoyed it.

But like some of the effects and.

Stuff, you're like, the book is great.

And I think that something happens though when you get a little older if.

Which hasn't happened to Jamie, which is why I think it would be interesting to have her on here.

So Jamie, if you're listening, email me.

Talk.

Leave me a note somewhere.

Yeah, you should totally comment on the Site for.

For this episode.

That's where we always tell people to go comment and say, how did it not become too.

Kitty's not the word.

That's not the word.

Because it was never Kitty.

Right.

Not become too stilted.

Like now when I read King.

It's okay.

It's.

It's propulsive and.

But it's just.

I feel like the dialogue feels stiff.

Yeah.

Like people don't talk like that, but I guess people in Maine talk like that.

But.

Well, see, I'm so far into the dark tower.

We're not in the real world anyway, so.

That's a good point.

I never did read yet, surprisingly.

Which.

Which is.

Yeah, I'm going to very soon.

I just.

Salem's Lot.

That's on my to read list.

Not too bad.

Not too bad.

I read.

I mean, I read a lot.

I read a lot.

I can't list them all, but my.

Son Carter really wants me to read Doom A key.

Have you ever read that one?

I haven't.

That's.

That's around that time.

There becomes a time where I just.

I quit.

It was late high school.

I kind of quit reading King and started reading more.

I can't tell you who varied authors.

Yeah, I'm.

I'm hoping to.

It's funny.

Like, my to read list is very quickly turned into just a lot of Stephen King books.

Well, that's cool, man.

I told her.

I was like, I want to sprinkle some other things in in there between them.

And then I was like, but I also just really want to read all these Stephen King books now.

Well, I'll admit, I've admitted this on air.

I. I've turned old man.

And all my to to be read list is.

It's all non fiction now.

I'm just an old head.

My theory is, even if it's bad non fiction, at least I learned something.

Yeah.

If it's bad fiction, I get angry and I'm like, stop talking like that.

But.

So, yeah, welcome to Derry.

Based off the books.

The book.

Because it's a.

It's a bit of a prequel.

Heavily based off some of the other.

Well, I guess I could say books.

Other Stephen King things as well as the two movies made by the same crew.

Do you think they're managing the information they have from the book in the first two movies?

Well, you know, they're trying to kind of blend a little.

I mean, technically, doctor Sleep.

Have you read doctor Sleep?

No, I haven't.

Apparently they're borrowing heavily from it.

I just saw.

I just Saw a TikTok the other day that was explaining why one scene that would make more sense in the last episode of welcome to Derry if you've read doctor Sleep.

So that probably needs to go on a list soon.

Also.

Any major gripes of welcome to Dairy just as a show for me.

No, I'm all in.

My wife, who loves the book, as I said, is not all in exactly.

She said she did.

Just something feels a little off to her and she can't quite quite put her finger on it.

But for me, I'm all in.

I'm.

I'm getting wrapped up in the world and that's what's made me want to go back and read the book.

And I'll probably.

After I read the book, I'll probably watch the movies again.

I really do want to watch the movies.

I'm coming into this thing kind of fresh because I haven't read it.

I only watched the miniseries in the 80s and I did not watch the it.

Chapter one and two, which I wanted to.

They're fantastic.

Yeah, I've heard that.

Good things.

Especially want to watch it because of Bill Hader is one of the characters in the second chapter.

Yeah.

He's so good.

And this might be a hard question for me and you to answer, which is, other than King fans, does it have an audience beyond.

I don't think it probably does, but there's so many people that were King fans.

That's true.

You know, that's a.

That's a large swath.

That's a large number of people.

Yeah.

From kids that grew up with it 30 years ago, you know, 40 years ago.

I'm just shocked that HBO seems to be putting a lot of chickens in the dairy basket because it's a Sunday night prime time.

Here's our hbo.

The Sopranos used to live here.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I haven't thought about it that way.

That's interesting.

It's dead center.

HBO's big rotation for the premiere Sunday night.

And.

And I'm okay with that if that's what they want to do.

Have they officially greenlit season two?

Not that I've heard, but I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen any day.

Yeah.

Because everything I've read or seen online makes it sound like they've basically already said they're gonna do it.

And it's gonna be this version of.

From this version of the book.

Like there's little allusions to it, like in the opening credit thing.

Like it's supposed to be 27 years before what's happening right now.

It's a cycle.

Yeah.

And they'll explain, like, where the car came from.

Oh, yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

The car that they pulled up, which.

Has not been mentioned since much.

No.

But it's a major story.

Apparently, that happened in the book.

Okay.

Yeah.

What's your favorite component of Stephen King's writing in his works?

I think his character development is pretty incredible.

Just from what little swath of his books I've read.

I think he's very, very good at putting characters together.

I agree.

And I think that's an answer a lot of people would say.

I think that endings aren't his best suit.

I think that for me, dialogue's not his best suit.

But I think you're right about the characters.

I've seen the Green Mile.

I haven't read it, but, you know, characters in that are just otherworldly, fantastic characters, you know, and Shawshank, like.

Yeah.

The character of Red is so fascinating.

Yeah.

It's got to be characters for me.

I listeners.

I'll give you my age, if you want to do some math.

I read the Green Mile in the monthly sequential order it came out, and so I was hanging by a thread to read the next book.

And do you still have those?

No, no.

Because I borrowed some from a girlfriend.

I would buy one, we would share it.

We saw them all recently at a used bookstore in Nashville, and we started to buy them all just so we would have them.

What was.

What was the asking price?

They were only three to five bucks a piece.

You know, they were cheap, and we will more than likely get them the next time we go back.

I just left there with a stack of, like, what's the place?

McKay's in Nashville.

I left there with a stack of the Dark Tower books that I didn't have, and Jamie had several books.

And.

Yeah, shout out to McKay's.

So.

Yeah, sounds like a cool bookstore.

It's pretty cool.

Have you.

You've never been there, so they have, like, used books and records and toys and movies.

It's.

You could get lost in there.

But don't go.

Don't go on a Saturday or Sunday.

Yeah.

If you don't want to be run over by people.

I think there's a lot to be gained by thinking about the Air Force or maybe even thinking about the adults as a whole who, whether they mean it or not, are acting on this impulse of if we're afraid of something, we need to control it.

And I think that's very much the mindset of America today and then previous centuries.

You can point to every single time where that's, you know, I'm thinking of segregation.

I'm scared of the other color.

Let me control it.

But put them in another school.

Yeah.

And really thought about that aspect of it.

I'd like for the.

You don't want the show to be too blatant with that connection, but I'd like for it to address that maybe.

Or allude to it, not address it.

Let's get into spoilers here, and I think we'll go ahead and take our break because I'm getting closer to spoilers.

We will talk specifics on welcome to Derry through episode five, titled Noble street.

The tunnel episode.

You're wondering.

I realize that we record on Sunday.

You may have an extra episode under your belt.

Good for you.

We don't.

Not yet anyway.

We're going to take a break.

You'll hear a little music on the other side.

Spoilers all the way through.

No Bullet Street.

Foreign.

Okay, we're back.

Happy to have with me one of our editors, one of our helpers, one of the Alabama Takes, Best People to have around podcast host of We Are Star Wars.

You got to check it out.

Corey.

Hannah's with me.

Corey and I are on the back half of the podcast for this episode, which means we are.

We're going to talk spoilers.

We're going to talk specific.

So you've been warned.

It's not our fault anymore.

We're going to talk one through five.

I. I don't know that we'll talk one through five, like in chronological order.

But just know that if we mention something in episode two and it's a spoiler, you know that it's on the table.

You've been warned.

You've been warned.

The most recent one that we've seen is the fifth.

It's.

It's.

I think I called it no Bolt.

Street, but I think it's Nybolt.

Is it what?

I think it's Nybolt, right?

Street.

Yeah, I get the pronunciation.

Anyway, it's a famous local in King's lore.

It's obviously the landmark in it, the book and the novel.

It's kind of like the spot where Pennywise, at least underneath the haunted and decrepit edifice there, he.

He.

You can go find him.

He's not too far away from there.

Am I right about this?

More or less.

From what I remember about the movie, it's like when you.

When they cut to the shot of the house, you're like, oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

You're supposed to rigging.

I remember that.

Yeah.

From the movies.

It's spooky looking house.

Yeah.

For sure.

I have been appreciative of how the series is almost.

And I really do.

I've been appreciative how they almost beaten you over the head on how Pennywise is.

Is actually just a manifestation of an entity who feeds off fear.

It's not so much that it's Pennywise, a specific clown.

I know a lot of people are getting off online and message boards like, oh, Pennywise is back.

The clown is back.

Well, you know, from what I've come to understand, and it's just through this series, is that, oh wait, he's bigger than that.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah, you want to comment on that?

Well, I was just gonna say that was like, that was the thing that I learned about in the movies a few years ago.

I was like, oh, so he's not just a clown.

Like, this is just one of his many forms.

Like you said, he's.

It's an outward appearance.

He's.

It's something completely different.

And they, they touched on the origin, you know, an episode or two ago.

They all kind of blend together for me at this point.

But.

But they, they touched on the origin.

And I've seen Tiktoks.

There were little hints about the turtle in the movies, right?

Yeah.

And we're getting more turtle stuff in this series than we did in either of the movies, right?

Yeah.

And how that's represent how that's coming in and to the story that wasn't there before.

We're just getting more of the lore and I think it's.

I think it's pretty awesome.

What's the turtle represent?

Do you know?

It's a.

It's basically the.

From what I understand on what I've watched on Tick Tock and I will probably get yelled at by the purists on this, but it's basically the opposite of what Pennywise is.

Right.

Okay.

It's like the good.

The.

The.

The good being in the world or whatever.

It's like a protector, right?

Yeah.

So its name is Maturin.

M A T U R I N.

Yes, that sounds familiar.

From.

From me reading it on a message board somewhere.

But like Lily has a turtle on her little bracelet, like a little turtle thing.

And then there's the, the war propaganda in the school, if you noticed.

It covers the Always the turtle.

Yeah, but that's.

Yes.

And that's always been the case, even in our reality.

I mean, I need that I know.

Like you said, the purists are like, yeah, we know.

Pennywise is not just a clown, but I need to be like, oh, yeah, he's bigger than that.

He's.

And that could be.

Donovan and I had this conversation.

Is that scarier or is that less scary?

Like, if it's an entity that can almost can't be controlled, is that less scary or more scary?

Or if it's just a clown that could kill people?

Is that.

Which.

Which way are you leaning?

I don't know.

The thing.

The thing that stuck out to me with the last episode, talking about if they were supposed to be scared or not.

Like, the kids figured it.

You know, the Hanlon kid was like, it's thriving on fear.

We just don't need to be scared.

And then Lily's like, oh, look at me.

I got this box of Xanax or whatever it was supposed to be in the box.

Right.

I just want to ask all our listeners, you all have a box of Xanax, don't we?

But it's like they go down there, they're real stoned, and then all of a sudden, they're not real stoned anymore or something, because now all of a sudden, they're scared.

I'm like, well, that didn't last very long.

I would have liked to have seen that play out a little bit more real.

That was.

That was a problem for me the last episode.

But other than that, like, as a.

Guy who's taken a few too many Xanaxes, I think that.

Yeah, yeah, but let.

Yeah, we're on the.

We're on the kids now.

I think that the casting director has done a pretty good job.

Kids can be either.

They can be annoying, they can be very fake on screen.

I think these kids are really good.

Yeah.

I especially think the.

The girl that plays Lily.

Lily's really good.

And the Hanlon kid are both fantastic.

Will's fantastic.

I think Ronnie might.

She's good, too, though, man.

I didn't mean to.

I'm not.

I'm not hating on her.

She's real good.

She's.

They're all good.

They're all good.

She can soup it up a little, but not sure.

So that we have this energy that preys on.

And I find it also super interesting.

And I think they can make this even more blatant.

And it seems to want to prey on troubled, abused, bullied, sensitive kids instead.

What King has done is, in his novels and some of these shows and movies have done is just that.

Here's a bullied sensitive kid.

They're leaving home because they hate it there.

And then they get preyed upon, but it's not.

I'd like to see more of the direct connection of this entity.

Wants that.

It's almost what we see with or read about with sexual predators.

You know, they.

They kind of have a sixth sense of who needs a daddy figure in there.

And that is scary.

Yeah.

And then the creators held off on showing any of Pennywise as a clown until this fifth episode.

We.

This is the one we're talking about.

Pretty much looks the same, as far as I can tell.

Did they doctor him up even more than.

I don't think so.

I mean, they've got the same actor.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bill Scarskar.

So I think that's helped a lot, you know, that he was willing to jump back into that.

I'm assuming that's it could.

It could either.

Could either be a very fun character to play or a very not fun character to play.

I mean, he's game for this kind of character anyway.

Yeah.

It looks like he's having a big time.

Yeah.

I do like that this episode is the one where everyone's in the know now.

Yeah, I think.

I think almost everybody's caught up on.

On who and what they're doing.

The pieces are mostly in place.

The Air Force are aware of this force.

They know to go to this house, start there.

They know that the town of Derry is a.

Almost offense thanks to the indigenous people of years ago.

And.

And then the kids, thanks to this Maddie.

I'll put in quotation marks, they now know, oh, go to the sewers.

And, you know, he's.

He lays it out for them.

I think he.

He stretches the truth about one thing.

I think he says that Pennywise sleeps during the day, which is not the case.

Yeah.

Here's how naive I am.

I thought that was really.

Maddie.

Oh, did you.

How long did it take?

I mean, once they got down there and figured it out, I was like, oh, okay, duh.

Well, he was always a little bit of a.

A weird little bastard anyway.

You know, he was the inciting that.

Damn pacifier that was super weak.

Yeah.

He was the inciting death.

That.

That kicked it all off in episode one.

So that's a while.

That's right.

He informs kids just before Will joins them.

And I think that's crucial because I think that Will might have a little bit more intel than they do.

So right before Will gets from the Air Force base to their hangout, he's been telling them where he is.

He sleeps during the day.

And I think Will would have known some of that stuff not to be true.

Oh, so you're thinking it's convenient that he wasn't there?

Yeah.

And then he bust up in there and he's like, okay, I'm ready.

I'm here now.

But not only the kids, the Air Force are running their umps with the native Thaniel, the indigenous character that they've brain mined.

He's in tow.

Luckily for him, he's got this safety with the cosmic and native artifact, kind of tip of a spear looking type thing.

Supposed to keep him safe.

Rose knows it's going to keep him safe.

And Major Hanlon's leading the mission.

He can't feel fear, but he does have concerns.

And he.

His concern manifest as his own wife in a pretty well done creepy ghost who he has to shoot.

Yeah, that was wild.

I do think it's.

It's got to be hard to sustain a.

A certain fear or horror throughout a series rather than just a movie.

Yeah.

And I think it's doing pretty well here.

The only thing I didn't think was done well was the ghost in the cemetery.

You didn't think so?

Yeah, it looked too Ghostbusters.

Ah, I don't know.

I thought it was okay.

Nothing stuck out to me that I. I remember being bad.

So, yes, he shoots his wife.

Happens to be one of the manifestations of it.

Nice little setup though, to, you know, make it believable that when Will turns the corner, he's gonna think I just saw my son about to take him out.

Yeah, because the son's at home.

He doesn't know that.

Yeah, Will's there.

Yeah, it's good, good writing there.

He does instead shoot his friend and Air Force companion, Paulie.

I think that was his name.

Paulie.

Paulie's death, I don't think has the resonance that the show wants us.

Wants us to have for him.

But that's a minor quibble because he can't make every character important.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.

I saw something too.

It was like major death on this episode.

And I was like, I don't know about that.

Slightly major, I guess.

The kids have taken the mommy's little helpers.

They only last a little bit.

It does give a chance for the Italian kid to hold the girl's hand.

I mean, he's just going crazy.

You can't help but chuckle at his little stuff.

Good little character.

One of the better and most action packed episodes to date though, because all characters, young and old.

Make an attempt to see or conquer the entity we know as Pennywise, whatever he is.

And it gets.

It gets a little creepy when Maddie turns into him.

It's well done.

It doesn't even look crazy.

Cgi.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That whole sewer scene was.

I thought there were a lot of things that were well done about this last episode, and I haven't noticed this.

Have you noticed that the music gets a little creepier during the intro?

Mm.

I saw a TikTok about that that said that, like, it started out, it was just.

Basically just the music.

And then the next episode, they added a couple of elements to it to make the music a little darker and more sinister.

And then it keeps building.

And I had not noticed that, but now it's like I'm trying to pay attention to it.

Yeah.

I do not skip the credits.

They.

I mentioned it in, like a sentence.

We should give the credits.

It's due.

It is so good.

The welcome to Derry credits are so good.

Yeah.

Another one that I've seen talks about things that.

That are referenced in the credits that will be featured in the next season.

Right.

There's story elements in there.

Yeah.

Okay.

More to pay attention to.

Yeah.

Tick tock is great for that sort of thing.

Okay.

The credits.

The opening sequence for the credits, I think, does so perfectly what the show wants to do.

It gives you that feeling of nostalgia while at the same time creeping you out.

And I think that they're.

And they're getting close.

They.

They often get close with the show itself.

And I find it interesting it.

You know, even if they don't nail down all the bits.

So we got the established stakes.

We know the characters, particularly with Dick.

I want to get into Dick Halahan.

He disappears.

He's in there with them.

But he, you know, he.

He.

It's just supposed to be a step off into the water, but when he steps off, he's gone.

That's it.

They don't.

Yeah, that's right.

They didn't go back to him.

They do not go back to him.

They think he's gone.

That's interesting.

Instead, he's living in his own mind.

Now.

This is the character who appears in the Shining and Doctor Sleep.

And at the very end, he finally emerges from the sewers and he encounters a very pet cemetery looking Paulie.

Oh, yeah, Same eye contacts.

It's not zombie like, but it's just like, I just died and I just got out of the grave.

Yeah.

And he had just been through that sequence in his mind where he was in the bathroom with his grandmother, and his granddad comes in with that box.

Do you know much about that?

No.

So.

So in doctor Sleep, his great grandfather is abusive, even sexually abusive, to.

To Dick.

Okay, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

And his grandmother teaches him, in order to survive this, put the bad stuff in a lockbox in your head, and you got the power to do that.

And that's what he comes in bringing.

Open this box.

And he gets it open.

Now, we don't know his viewers what he opened up, but we do know that when he leaves the sewers, he sees a dead Paulie walking around.

Yeah.

Does that mean he now sees a lot of dead people walking around?

I don't know.

That's a good question.

Yeah, I didn't know that.

I didn't know the story behind the box because I was just like, okay, so the box opens up and it's got the Shining in it.

Right.

That was.

I think it's worse.

Yeah, but I mean, the way the light came out of it.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, okay.

It's very much Pulp Fiction, wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, it's got Marcellus Wallace's soul in it.

Well, if it ends up being he can see dead people, man, this.

This show and I even going so far back as Pet Cemetery, they.

They really do get.

Just dead people.

Just have died people.

Okay.

Yeah, scarily.

Perfect.

I guess I need to go back and read or.

And.

Or watch doctor Sleep.

Yeah, a lot.

A lot in Dick's teaching Danny, a lot of this stuff.

Interesting.

Okay.

I don't think I knew that.

I saw the Shining in theaters a few years ago.

I had seen it before, but I was in college the last time I saw it.

I think they put it in.

I think I want to say that, yeah, they put it in theaters right before doctor Sleep came out because they were showing a preview for doctor Sleep as well.

Yeah.

Was doctor Sleep good?

Oh, this one saying, like, I saw the Shining in the theater, but then I saw the trailer for doctor Sleep, and I never saw doctor Sleep.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Yeah, I dig the show.

I keep wanting to.

It's one of those shows where, what are they going to do next?

I don't think that there's a lot of thematic things I can take away from it here and there.

Sometimes, though, I do think the show can improve tfold if they dig into that teenage fear, if they mine that for examination without simply using it as a plot point for Pennywise to use against them.

Yeah.

You know, you.

You got a.

8 hours.

8, 9, 10 hours of the show.

It's.

You know, I think you could have a chance to sit down and think, what is teenage fear?

Why is it more potent than adult fear?

I think it's.

To me, it's like.

It's them just trying to figure out their position in life, you know, Like, Lily's afraid that she's gonna be viewed as the crazy one because she keeps going, having to go to the.

Juniper Hill.

Yeah, Juniper Hill.

And, like, you know, Will is like the new African American kid in town, you know, at a time when it was pretty uncomfortable to be the new African American kid in town.

Right.

And then you've got.

What's the girl's name whose dad was accused of killing him in the movie theater?

Ronnie.

You know, she's got.

She's listening to her grandmother tell her son, which is Ronnie's dad.

You know, these things about the work, these truths about the world at that time, and, like, you know, I don't know, I feel like they're capturing all of that pretty well.

They're so, so close.

For me, personally, they're so close, and I think that they could get a step better, you know?

Why?

Why?

Sensitive kids versus the starting quarterback.

I love the sensitive kid.

You know, the sensitive kids are still trying to figure it out.

The quarterback thinks he's got it figured out, but he doesn't.

Can't hear him.

He knows it.

Yeah.

Love it.

Yeah.

And you.

You kind of have to bring something to the table for it to work, for you to work.

The other character that comes into play in this episode that we haven't talked about is the nurse figure, Mrs. Kirsch.

She comes to help Will's mother.

Normally she's talking to Lily.

That's about it.

Ms. Kirsch is a person whom Pennywise inhabits or mimics later in the films as an old woman.

Have you seen.

Do you know the connection there?

Not much.

So what I've seen on Tick Tock, again, it's.

This is where I.

Thank you, Tick Tock.

I learned a lot.

This episode is sponsored by Tick Tock.

But people on Tick Tock are saying that the character of Periwinkle.

Is that the character's name, the little girl clown that you see in one of the flashbacks?

That.

That's Ms. Hirsch.

That's the mother of.

Because if there's something to do with the cup that she was.

That she had a little cup and saucer.

You see it in the background in Ms. Hirsch's.

Apartment at some point.

And then you see the hairpiece.

Yeah.

In the corner.

It's like.

It's not.

They don't draw attention to it.

Yeah.

And then there was some other connection because Ms. Hirsch is in part two of the movies or something from a few.

There's an old lady and you see that cup and that saucer in her apartment at that point.

So.

So the.

The Internet is telling me that Ms. Hirsch is periwinkle the Clown.

Wow.

I just came to the conclusion that Ms. Hirsch can't be long for this world.

You know, he may take her over.

Oh, now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

More than likely.

Yeah.

I may.

I may have all of this entirely wrong.

I'm just relying on what sounds telling.

Me from what I've read.

Cool.

The episode ends with a sense of being more prepared to attempt to defeat something.

It could be dangerous.

Like, you know, Pennywise and what he represents.

Maybe they're more prepared, maybe they're less prepared.

Yeah.

Mr. Hanlon.

General, is it?

General.

What's his rank?

So he's Major Hamlin.

Major.

Major Hand Generals who he.

Francis.

Is.

Who he reports to.

So he's bought in at this.

By the end of this episode, though, he knows there's crazy stuff happening.

He's like, why did you move my family here?

He's mad.

Yeah.

And that's good.

Yeah, that's good.

Tension.

The only person we haven't talked about is Hank.

Hank is Ronnie's dad.

He's the black guy who managed to escape the shell shape prison bus because it was attacked by some presence.

It allows him to get back to the lady who happens to be Mrs. Kersh.

It was the lady he was having an affair with on the night of the child murders.

He could never come out and say this in this era because she's white and she's married.

Yeah, there's a whole lot happening right there.

Yeah.

Had they.

Had they told that before and it just went over my head, or did they just reveal that in this last episode?

It wasn't in episode five.

Now you found out in episode four.

Okay, so not that long ago.

Okay.

But you know, you get a lot of sympathy for Hank.

I know having an affair with a married woman is not too kosher.

But.

But it's a.

Just because she's white, he's going to be lynched if at all possible.

It's.

So he's in a no win situation.

Yeah.

But at the same time, he's those privy to these.

To these monsters or at least his kids Are welcome to Derry has a lot of irons in the fire and might have too many in it to be great, but you're digging it.

I'm in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're just a few hours away from watching a new episode.

By the time people hear this, it will have passed.

It will have passed.

I'm glad you joined me, man, because you helped me parse through some of the lore.

It is heavily on lore.

Sometimes I wonder if too much.

Sometimes I think just.

I mean, I love that.

Yeah, you do.

I know you do.

Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

Sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'll go read about this on a message board and it'll be great.

It'll add to it and I love it.

And then sometimes I'm just.

I'm like, no, just give it to me in the show and I'm fine.

Yeah, I'm in, man.

Like I said, it's made me want to.

It's made me want to pick the book up.

It kind of has me too.

It.

Well, one thing it's done for me, I'm definitely, at some point, I hope, go back and watch the movies.

Yeah.

The.

The chapter one and two.

We have reached the end of our episode.

I've enjoyed it.

I hope Corey's enjoyed it.

Been great.

I love it.

Go check him out on.

We are a Star War.

They don't really have a set schedule.

You.

If you subscribe to them or follow them, they'll drop some when they have time.

And they're always a lot of fun and.

And, you know, you don't have to be.

They're made for the Altar Ultra fan and they're made for the.

I'm just getting into Star wars.

So, yeah, it's.

We're just having.

We're just trying to have fun.

We know there's a million other Star wars podcasts out there and you will get a lot more information.

Yeah.

From those podcasts.

If you want to listen to three friends having a few libations and talking about three buttholes.

Three buttholes.

Talking about Star Wars.

That's.

That's what we do.

We have a good time.

Yeah.

You can feel there their happiness and joy to be around one another.

They're friends.

But here we are.

We're at the end.

We hope you've enjoyed.

For Adam Donovan and for Corey, I'm blame.

We hope you don't peek too long about what at what's flowing in the sewers this week.

We'll be back next Tuesday.