This week, the Taking It Down cast reflect on the profound work of director and musician David Lynch (1:51).
Then it's the much-anticipated second season of 'Severance' on Apple TV+ as it has finally arrived, and they start broad, with no spoilers, on its complexities and themes (10:30).
Blaine, Donovan, and Adam then get into the spoilers of the first episode of the second season where they explore the show's unique premise, the shows' questions, identity, and self (22:22). The discussion touches on the balance between mystery and character development, as well as the show's clever use of humor amidst some dark plot lines.
For more, always check out The Alabama Take website, which is linked here: https://www.thealabamatake.com/
For more from the podcast advertisement for Seddy Bimco, find their site here at this link: https://www.seddy-bimco-part-2-the-revenge.com/
Hey everyone.
BlaineWelcome back to Taking it Down.
BlaineOr come on in if it's your first visit to the Working Man's TV podcast.
BlaineWe're going to talk about shows and then we'll do the best we can do to offer insight.
BlaineIn fact, this week it's the return of the long awaited, much talked about second season of Severance on Apple tv.
BlainePlus, if you're new to this podcast, it may help to know that we always begin by avoiding anything that would ruin the episode or show for you.
BlaineBecause then we'll take a 30 second break or so before we get into spoilers.
BlaineDonovan and Adam are about to join me.
BlaineI'm Blaine.
BlaineThanks for listening.
BlaineCheck out a lot more on the alabamatake.com Alabama tape projection.
BlaineWell, that's.
BlaineThat's them right there.
BlaineWelcome to Adam and Donovan.
BlaineGuys, I have bad news and good news, but I'll give you the bad news first.
BlaineI know how this works.
BlaineThe bad news is I got the severance done, but instead of it separating my mind between work and home, they split it between podcasting and everything else.
BlaineSo I have no memory of what I've watched.
BlaineBut you want the good news?
BlaineThe good news is that I'm not sure how that's going to be any different than any other podcast episode we've ever done.
Speaker BSo my wife is encouraging me to get marriage severance, which would be.
Speaker BI think it's when you can't remember what a jackass you were outside the house.
BlaineI thought it might be you can't remember what an asshole you were the night before, which is.
BlaineI think I've had that done because I wake up, I'm like, what's up?
BlaineOh, you're still mad?
Speaker BI need other people to have that surgery done.
BlaineYeah, exactly.
DonovanWhat's up?
BlaineWe're going to talk about severance and its return soon.
BlaineBut before we do, I think we'd be a little remiss not mentioning the passing of director and musician David lynch, who died Thursday.
BlaineThe three of us are David lynch fans and admirers, even I would say so.
BlaineI wanted to ask what you're going to take away from his work now that it is sealed and done.
Speaker BYou ever read Catching the Big Fish Plane?
Speaker BA little book he wrote about creativity?
BlaineI know, but I'm going to write.
BlaineI'm writing it down now.
BlaineI didn't know it existed.
Speaker BIt's about creativity and also transcendental meditation.
BlaineHey, I love both.
BlaineI really do not mean.
Speaker BBut just they're just like little simple almost like thoughts.
BlaineI like Books like that.
Speaker BOne of the things that stuck with me.
Speaker BI just love it.
Speaker BIt's like he's talking to you.
Speaker BBut one of the things that just stuck with me was he was talking about making Eraserhead.
Speaker BAnd there's a scene where a character is either walking, coming towards her, away from the camera, through.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BAnd just with one thing or the other, he's like.
Speaker BYou know, it was like five or six years before we finished that.
Speaker BLike, the guy was just like.
Speaker BI don't know.
Speaker BLike, something in that is like.
Speaker BLike, it's not like, look at how great this is what I did.
Speaker BBut he really made stuff that he believed in and he shared it with us.
Speaker BAnd sometimes it seems.
Speaker BHe seems like, for a lot of people, one of those artists that just works on the lizard brain.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BLike, you just see it and you're like, yeah, this is great.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BAnd it was great.
Speaker BBut he was.
Speaker BHe should have been the most insufferable person in the world.
Speaker BAnd there was not a whiff of pretension to him on top of that.
Speaker BHe's hilarious.
BlaineVery funny.
DonovanYou know, I think Donovan, what you said in our group text about the way that if he's not already thought of like this, I think time will reveal the depth of his impact on American art.
DonovanBut you said it's.
DonovanIt's kind of like we're living through the day that Walt Whitman died or Melville or Emily Dickinson or something.
DonovanAnd I.
DonovanI hadn't thought about it in those terms, but that's absolutely the case, I think, because specifically, as an American artist, he just.
DonovanHe played with national identity and things that are big questions, you know, but he did it all along.
DonovanLike, you're saying Donovan with, I don't know, such a soft human touch.
DonovanThat's kind of.
DonovanI've seen.
DonovanI've seen friends who maybe don't spend as much time in film world or TV world as we do say that they feel like they're not smart enough for lynch or they're gonna have to, like, watch these YouTube explainers or whatever.
DonovanAnd I.
DonovanI mean, I think that you can get a lot out of that.
DonovanAnd I love reading about.
DonovanIt's, you know, the mark of something great is that other people can think about it and expand upon it.
DonovanI think it's also just meant to be experienced.
DonovanAnd there's a.
Speaker BAbsolutely.
DonovanThere's like a strong belief in human potential.
DonovanNot.
DonovanNot his own potential, but human potential behind everything that he did.
DonovanAnd it has such a kind a kindness and generosity and all these.
DonovanThese things.
DonovanThat may feel out of step with his public uninformed Persona of like he's this like weirdo kind of gross out surrealist or whatever.
DonovanNo, I think this was such a kind man.
DonovanAnd like every time I would listen to a podcast with them or anything like that, it's, you know, he's talking about this meditation, this ability to go deep like that, to be creative is something innate in all of us.
BlaineI love that.
Speaker BAdam, something that made me think of while you were talking was one of the things that I, until the Straight Story was not easily available to watch until I think 2020ish.
Speaker BAnd when I saw that, I was like, okay, I've seen Twin Peaks, I've seen some movies, I know what's up.
Speaker BAnd it was so interesting to see.
Speaker BFor me to see a G rated movie completely consistent with his style, with his concerns about what's woven in the fabric of America, with his concerns about how we treat and interact with each other.
Speaker BSo it really was like, oh, wow, none of it is window dressing.
Speaker BIt's all authentic.
Speaker BThis isn't.
Speaker BMaybe no one's getting shot or whatever in this one, but it's all part of the same work and it's so good for listeners.
BlaineThat movie is now streaming on Disney, I think.
Speaker BIs it still on Disney?
Speaker BIt is very, very good.
DonovanWhen people have asked in the last few days, what's a good entry point?
DonovanI always say Mulholland really is a.
DonovanIs a strong one.
DonovanBut I think Straight Story.
DonovanStraight Story is like, it has all of his.
DonovanLike, it almost watches like Terence Malik had an editing hand on a David lynch piece.
BlaineBut it's only 90 minutes, you know.
DonovanYeah.
DonovanAll of the things happening under the surface and Straight Story, I mean, we could have a whole episode about that movie.
Speaker BI can talk just like the sound and the, the camera work.
Speaker BIt almost feels like there's heart, but also terror.
Speaker BI get it, David.
Speaker BI get it.
Speaker BDavid Lynch.
DonovanThere's tremendous violence and dark and upsetting things on the corners of, of the whole story.
BlaineWell, it is streaming.
BlaineIf we ever, if we ever have run out of topics, you know, that's certainly something we could do.
BlaineIf you guys don't mind me further kind of quoting you on these ideas, you're saying.
BlaineI pulled up my phone because I thought y'all said it so well the other day yesterday that Adam noted that people tend to get defensive, or they can get defensive.
DonovanYeah.
BlaineBecause they think they're missing something about lynch and they may even turn their nose up at him.
BlaineBut Adam further Explains that.
BlaineNo, that's it.
BlaineThat's let go.
BlaineAnd to that, I would say if somebody says, I didn't get it.
BlaineDid you watch it?
BlaineYeah, I watched all of it.
BlaineThen you got it.
Speaker BYep.
BlaineAdam said that people will say I'm not smart enough for this.
BlaineBut yesterday Adam said, that's assuming everything can be figured out.
BlaineAnd I love that notion.
BlaineI can't figure out everything.
BlaineAnd that's a good, comfortable position to have.
Speaker BIt's just the human situation, really.
BlaineAnd Donovan, you added that smarts won't get you there while the whole thing remains incredibly smart.
BlaineAnd I love that too, about Lynch.
DonovanI think he.
DonovanHe pulls that off partially because, again, going back to the idea of.
DonovanOf human goodness and empathy and all of these things, like you're.
DonovanYou're supposed to intuit a lot of the most important parts of these movies, shows, whatever.
BlaineI agree with that.
BlaineIt's a feeling, you know?
DonovanRight.
DonovanIt's not just an intellectual exercise.
BlaineHow did it make you feel?
Speaker BI love that he, with the return in the Internet age where we were so obsessed with picking stuff apart, made something that like, kind of can't be figured out.
Speaker BLike, you can kind of see things.
Speaker BBut he deliberately made it so the pieces don't all connect.
BlaineAnd if you want to go the other direction and watch, you know, five or six YouTube videos about it, that's fun too, in a way.
Speaker BYeah, you can do that.
Speaker BLike, please do.
Speaker BUltimately, you know, ultimately exists to be experienced more than anything else.
BlaineOne thing that may not be quite true, and you guys correct me if you can, twin peaks in 1990 seem like the beginning of speculative TV culture that's now in every corner of the Internet.
BlaineLike back then you had to subscribe to underground magazines.
BlaineI wonder though, if there was a serialized TV show that garnered that much guesswork before that, that much.
Speaker BThat level when they were wondering who shot Junior.
BlaineYeah, but that wasn't quite the same, but.
Speaker BI'm kidding.
BlaineNo, you're right.
BlaineNo, I remember it too.
BlaineAnd it was a summer of long discussions between my parents and their friends.
BlaineI can recall that quite well.
BlaineBut to this level, where there is some sort of other world, maybe there's a murder.
BlaineWhat is the dream stuff?
BlaineWho is Bob if he is the murderer?
BlaineAnd it's just a lot more.
BlaineThe level got thicker.
BlaineThe levels.
DonovanI mean, it's even joked about in the Simpsons multiple times.
Speaker BMultiple times.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineI worry.
BlaineLike most things in Netflix engine that is 2017 short film.
BlaineWhat did Jack do?
BlaineWe'll get lost.
DonovanWe need the screen.
BlaineI kind of like it.
Speaker BI love that one.
DonovanIt's interesting that you brought up that idea of weekly discussion and pulling things apart because I thought about that with our other topic today.
DonovanNot to like jump on your.
BlaineNo, no, no, no, no.
BlaineI was about to segue into that.
DonovanBut I, I mean, I thought about the history of shows that have enough weight and meat on the bone to where you can really spend time picking it apart week on week.
DonovanAnd how severance is, is definitely one of the stronger entries in that category in the last five, 10 years.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineJust remember, guys, we're in non spoiler section.
BlaineSo speaking of tv, it makes you think.
BlaineYeah, exactly, Adam.
BlaineHere's one of the investigative opportunities for us all.
BlaineIt's finally back.
BlaineSeverance from Apple TV plus felt like it gained a lot of popularity after it finished airing its first season's episodes or right around the end of the first season.
BlaineAnd maybe that's because people like to wait until the entire season is available.
BlaineAnd I get that.
BlaineWonderful.
BlaineSeverance is complex, fascinating.
BlaineIt's weekly.
BlaineI love that.
BlaineY'all know it's created by Dan Erickson and directed mostly by Ben Stiller and another guy named Al McArdle.
BlaineHe's an Irishman.
BlaineI so I probably butchered his first name.
BlaineIt's sorry.
BlaineIt stars Adam Scott as a worker in an odd office for a company named Lumen where he and his three colleagues have been severed.
BlaineThat is a procedure where they affect your mind and you only know what happens at work.
BlaineAnd then once you go in the elevator and rise up the elevator, it turns back into you in the outside world.
BlaineInnies and Audis as they're known.
BlaineYou know that even from like the first episode.
BlaineAgain, we're not spoiling anything, so don't fear.
BlaineThe show also stars John Turturro, Zach Cherry and Britt Lauer as Mark's three co workers.
BlainePatricia Arquette is his boss as well as his odd neighbor.
BlaineWe won't do spoilers here, but perhaps, maybe, let's see, let's kind of figure out where we're going to spoil maybe pretty much anything in the in the first seasons up for grabs right here for anyone listening because it is a spoiler filled show and I understand how that works for listeners.
BlaineIf you haven't watched all the first season, you may want to catch up and then once the break ends, we will talk about this first episode of season two.
BlaineSo I have concerns with the first episode back and I don't withhold the specific examples, but it's kind of a reflection on the show as a whole anyway.
BlaineIt's just a question of can it handle the amount of mystery or questions that it wants to solve and pose it lean.
Speaker BThat's exactly the way I felt watching it.
BlaineI'm a little worried it leans into being a show for Reddit.
BlaineI've never been one for a piece of TV that requires going elsewhere for the full picture, though I've been a huge fan of art that gives me the full picture and I can go elsewhere and have some more fun with it that I do love.
BlaineSo there's a difference in my mind, but nothing that's like mandatory.
BlaineI gotta go find this.
BlaineAnyway, my answer to those concerns is that it, it satisfies me enough with real human themes to avoid trappings of is it gonna answer this question?
DonovanYeah, I agree with that.
DonovanAnd I think I even read an interview that they did with Erickson, did with Variety, I think where the interview straight up asked do you ever feel in danger of turning your show into Lost?
BlaineI'm glad you brought that.
DonovanAnd I think maybe they're natural.
DonovanYou talked about how it picked up fans.
DonovanI think there's a lot of shows out there now with great premises that don't always deliver.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanOn down the Line and the way maybe word gets out, even if you're not spoiling it, that, hey, the weighty themes that they bring up are handled in a satisfactory way through season one.
DonovanEven things that are kind of tough to articulate, like why is this so compelling?
DonovanFeel really compelling when they're on the screen.
DonovanSome of that we'll get into with episode one of season two.
DonovanBut it makes sense that it's picked up steam.
DonovanI do always wonder, is this show massive in the way that I think some bands are massive, yet they still play like club sized rooms?
DonovanYou know what I mean?
DonovanLike, like who?
DonovanAll of my, all of my friends watch this show.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanBut is that reflective of the population at large?
DonovanSo.
BlaineBut I think it's pretty popular.
DonovanI do think it's a really popular show.
DonovanI mean doing the viral marketing thing at Grand Central in New York a few days ago, I mean, Ben Stiller is a huge name.
DonovanAll these things.
DonovanIt's, it's a big show.
DonovanBut I do think if you're on the outside looking in, do I want to get involved in this?
DonovanI think, yeah, I think it's worthwhile.
DonovanIt's worth the energy.
BlaineShout out to my buddy Hank.
BlaineHe messaged me three or four weeks ago and said that Reddit is ablaze with this show, Severance.
BlaineShould I watch it?
BlaineAnd I said, oh, yeah, for sure, man.
BlaineIt's good.
DonovanThey've really.
DonovanThey've broken it down to a the nth degree on there.
Speaker BFeels like a good time to jump into only one first season.
Speaker BAs a whole, I'd say pretty good.
Speaker BYou're not gonna be mad watching it, you know, it's not like you got five seasons of research to do.
BlaineIf you're interested, I will say that since Lost has been brought up, many writers, magazine writers have compared it to Lost.
BlaineI hate Lost to this.
BlaineTo this day, I'll say it corrupted television to a degree.
BlaineDoes Severance pose to me questions it can't answer or doesn't want to answer?
BlaineWell, that's yet to be seen.
BlaineBut what separates it from Lost and other shows that came in that mold is that Severance's themes feel purposeful, whereas Lost and its themes were added in post production.
BlaineOh, it's about religion.
BlaineWhen you know good and well that's tacked on because they had to have an answer of some kind.
BlaineI say post production, but near pro.
BlainePost production, near the end.
Speaker BThat's a great point, Blaine, because I think that, like, Lost would have certainly been a different show, at least in our brains and minds, if it hadn't been changed and also marketed as, like, oh, there's going to be an answer.
Speaker BYou're going to find out the mystery, as, as opposed to, like, I don't know, a show that's, like, we don't really know what happens when we die or something like that.
Speaker BAnd I think that, like, Severance's premise is good enough.
Speaker BPretty much all of us work that, like, there's, you know, it's.
Speaker BIt's like there is that other element of, like, oh, I see, like, a reflection of, like, a kind of funhouse world of my own here.
Speaker BAnd I think that is not something that needs an answer.
Speaker BIt just is.
Speaker BSo it's already kind of, like, satisfying to see the setting and then if, you know, I hope that they leave us open to a little mystery and they don't get too Lost.
Speaker BBut I think just the premise on its own is satisfying in the same way that maybe with Lost, if it would have been like, okay, we just have a really good episode about them surviving in the jungle or whatever, as opposed to gotta answer a question, gotta answer a question, gotta answer a question.
BlaineOr pose a question is probably their.
BlaineTheir fault.
Speaker BYeah, that's.
Speaker BThat's a good point.
DonovanThe other thing that I think Severance did that was really clever.
DonovanWas run down all of the ways that we would have naturally reacted to that situation.
Speaker BYeah.
DonovanLike, they try to just walk out.
DonovanRight.
DonovanLike they.
DonovanThey do all of the things.
DonovanIt's almost like a Survivor kind of movie where they need to show you, no, you really are well and truly screwed.
DonovanYou know, like, you're in a tightly controlled world.
DonovanAnd I.
DonovanI think all of that has set it up for success in seasons two.
DonovanAnd they're already talking about three.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanOne of the things they said in that interview that I.
DonovanI thought was an interesting way of putting this if you're a showrunner, is the writer's room.
DonovanThey use the phrase the writers room.
DonovanHad a lot of blue sky in season two.
DonovanAnd what they did during season two has made it to where season three should be easier to put together.
DonovanMeaning that they have created a world of rules for themselves.
DonovanLike the story is on tracks.
DonovanThey kind of had to invent the tracks through season one and two.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanAnd now it'll pick up steam as the season goes along.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineThe first season was fine on answering most of what it posed, other than the big things that they wanted to wait on for season two.
BlaineWe'll see.
BlaineIt does keep you guessing in a good way.
BlaineIt's well acted.
BlaineThe story's layered enough for my taste.
BlaineIt develops a sense of mystery and dread.
BlaineReally?
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BAnd I was gonna say it's like.
Speaker BIt's eerie.
BlaineIt is eerie.
Speaker BYou know, I love that.
Speaker BIt's like taking to the extreme, like the person you are is alienated from labor because you're literally two different things when you work for the company.
Speaker BYou are everything for the company, and you're.
Speaker BYou're kind of being held hostage by your own self.
BlaineRight.
BlaineExactly.
Speaker BAnd that is interesting enough to keep it going, I think.
BlaineOh, yeah.
DonovanThere's an element, too, of when you're watching the Innies, the in universe stuff that, you know, they're underground in this world without news, without weather, without, like, basic troubles every day.
DonovanAnd you could see how there's a bit of a escapist, like, oh, I can just go there and not deal with the world, make money, come up again and live my life like that in a way that feels almost like cocoon like, or womb like.
DonovanAnd they.
DonovanEven through season one, a lot of the logic that they use to keep them in line is pretty childlike.
DonovanRight.
DonovanLike, they kind of cheat them or treat them as naive children.
DonovanObviously, season one ends.
DonovanThey realize they have to maybe adjust that strategy.
DonovanBut I don't know the setup is.
DonovanIt's enough to make you.
DonovanThat's kind of what I was getting at with things that almost feel trite when you say them out loud are given room to feel more profound on screen.
DonovanYou know, like Donovan was saying, like, this is something we all deal with.
DonovanIs this a decision that you would make given the opportunity?
BlaineThey do treat them childlike.
BlaineAnd you wonder how much of their mind is childlike because it's been severed from the outside world.
BlaineIsn't there a moment where in the first season where heli has come in as a newcomer and they ask her a bunch of questions, she only gets the one about Delaware.
BlaineRight?
BlaineLike, is Delaware a state or something?
DonovanRight.
DonovanThere's a.
DonovanI got on YouTube just to watch some recaps and you have to.
DonovanYeah, yeah, just the previously on did an okay job from Apple.
Speaker BBut yeah, it was still a lot.
DonovanBut they just pointed out that, you know, they're trying to feel out how effective the the implant is because obviously you need to be able.
DonovanYou need to remember that you learned how to speak a language, but you don't need to remember your childhood.
DonovanYou know, like, how do you separate those two things?
BlaineIt's a top tier exemplar of how science fiction can hold up a mirror to truths of our world.
BlaineAnd this one gets close enough to the real world that maybe it isn't even full blown science fiction.
BlaineNot sure what the genre here is.
BlaineThriller even.
Speaker BCall it science fiction.
Speaker BI mean thriller for sure.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BBut a thrilling.
Speaker BI think the premise is still science fiction, which is something we could fight about all day and it doesn't matter.
BlaineNo, it doesn't matter.
BlaineLet's take a break.
BlaineWhat you'll do is you'll hear from some of our podcasting friends and on the other side, it's spoiler time.
DonovanSeti Bimco R to the Revenge.
Speaker BWe create revenge sequels for movies that never had them.
DonovanMovies like Creature from Black Page, Hercules.
Speaker BIn New York, the Choppers, White Christmas.
DonovanPsychotronic Man Critters, Return to Pocket Killer Clowns from Outer Space, Road Tour, Mac and Me, Crypt of Dark Secrets.
DonovanGeorge, remember the time we made a revenge sequel to Equinox?
DonovanYou had to go to the hospital.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineSeti Pimco Part 2 the Revenge Every Wednesday.
DonovanAny place you listen to podcasts.
BlaineWell, let's try our damnedest to unpack some of severance if we remember the first season as a whole.
BlaineI think I do, though I really hat this is a funny statement to make.
BlaineI really had forgotten Big Chunks of the first season, like the whole Keir Egan plot idea, I totally had forgotten.
BlaineBut what I did is I pulled up the last two episodes of the first season and kind of skimmed them.
BlaineFast forward through them really quickly.
BlaineAnd then I watched, I think, like a 10 minute YouTube thing, and it solidified the.
Speaker BThe one thing that completely deleted from my brain.
Speaker BI don't know how, I don't know why.
Speaker BWhen I finished watching that first episode and it said directed by Ben Stiller, I was like, oh, yeah, that's.
Speaker BI kind of remember that.
Speaker BLike, just completely forgot.
DonovanYeah, it is weird that he's involved.
DonovanNot weird, but just like, he's good.
Speaker BHe did a good job.
Speaker BI thought.
DonovanHe just.
DonovanHe's very, very good.
BlaineHe directed and maybe even wrote all of Escape from Dannemora on Showtime.
BlaineAnd I love.
Speaker BOh, yeah, that's right.
BlaineI forgot about that earlier.
BlaineI said, I lay my worries to rest with the show because I think it's intelligently examining themes, big ideas, and it's quite aware that that's what it's doing and wants to do.
BlaineBut one of my favorites that it tries to unpack is that of identity and Persona.
BlaineIt's not one of those themes.
BlaineYou see a lot of TV looking at movies more so.
BlaineAnd I'm often brought back to the novel To Kill a Mockingbird, which could be one of the first examples of code switching in pop culture.
BlaineAnd that's when Scout's blown away by Calpurnia speaking differently at church versus anywhere else.
BlaineAnd all that does.
BlaineI know that's code switching a little different there, but it does remind me that we have.
BlaineI've got a work Persona, a home Persona, friend and family, and so on and so on.
BlaineI mean, as many people as you can interact with is that's how many Personas you could possibly have.
BlaineDo we have podcast identities?
Speaker BYeah, I'm the rowdy one.
BlaineOh, chill.
BlaineChill out now.
BlaineNo, but just the idea of Personas, I just love that.
BlaineI often talk to people about that at.
BlaineAt school, students.
BlaineI tell them, you know, you have a Persona, and that's part of your argument that you need to make.
Speaker BI like it.
Speaker BI think you're exactly right, Blaine, because it kind of like, it kind of starts to ask the question, who.
Speaker BWho are you?
Speaker BAnd, like, I think as far as the show has gone, at least there's sort of a.
Speaker BLike, it's not completely outside of the realm of possibility that the answer will be like, there is no self.
Speaker BThere's the you at work.
Speaker BThere's the you at home, there's not necessarily like a consistent unified personality.
Speaker BOr maybe there is a self and something.
BlaineWhat's his name as Buddha.
Speaker BIt's like Buddhist.
DonovanOkay.
Speaker BAlan Watts, that kind of thing.
DonovanI mean, we're right back to David lynch and old Harry Dean having a conversation.
Speaker BMan, I just was watching this episode because my pump was so primed, and I was like, how cool would it have been if they'd gotten David lynch in here for an episode or two?
DonovanSee, I don't think that this show works with lynch, at least in the same way, because there are rules in severance, and I don't think that he observes those at all.
Speaker BI just think like, not.
Speaker BNot him directing, but him as like a character I could see.
DonovanOh, he would have been great, right?
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BNot directing.
Speaker BNo.
DonovanThe man could wear the hell out of a suit.
Speaker BExactly.
Speaker BLike as like an executive or something.
Speaker BLike, he would be so good.
DonovanHis haircut's all ready for the kind of vintage look.
DonovanYeah.
DonovanWould have been great.
Speaker BYeah, that would have been hilarious.
BlaineYou want to talk about those sets, all those.
BlaineThe implementation of colors in this show.
DonovanI love it.
BlaineSomething about that red ball for the game of sharing just made me feel icky.
DonovanIt made a sound the ball did when it hit their hands.
DonovanThere was so, like, I thought about the way that they introduce tactile things in this world.
DonovanThe sound of the keyboards, the sound of things switching on and off, the ball hitting their hands.
DonovanIt felt like it had weight and substance.
Speaker BThey do such a good job with making it feel like laboratory setting with the like.
Speaker BLike it's all a maze, right.
Speaker BLike, like they're the rats in the maze.
DonovanRight.
Speaker BLike it's all the maze.
Speaker BAnd you know, if you've ever seen like these experiments they'll do for rats, right.
Speaker BLike sometimes you'll have.
Speaker BThey'll see like, oh, are you.
Speaker BYou know, how do they react in this area?
Speaker BHow do they react in that area?
Speaker BAnd it almost kind of feels like, like you get the green room to calm you down, you get the red.
Speaker BAnd it all feels very sterile and clinical, but in a way that is like, kind of gross.
Speaker BAlmost like hospital cafeteria food.
DonovanWell, in the in universe way of explaining that away is that, you know, this.
DonovanWe're into spoilers now.
DonovanRight.
BlaineFor sure.
DonovanSo it opens with them saying they're five months.
DonovanMarcus has been gone for five months.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanSo you could have, in that time, you tell Audi, Marcus, whatever's happening up there, when he finally comes back, that's plenty of time to do Reconstruction on things, to change the rooms up, to change the hallways, all of this.
DonovanSo that first frantic scene of him running around and trying, like what?
DonovanLooking for his co workers.
DonovanIs he disoriented?
DonovanBut to, to him, no time has passed at all.
BlaineHe's looking for the wellness place to find Gemma.
DonovanRight.
DonovanAnd it's not there.
BlaineRight.
DonovanWhich is just so genius because there's an explanation for it that's plausible, but also it's being experienced in this surreal kind of sci fi way.
DonovanI don't know.
DonovanThat was so clever.
DonovanAnd the, the way that they stayed with the Enies this whole episode and experience days as they experienced them.
DonovanYou know, I just have little questions like, what if.
DonovanWhat if your Audi drank too much the night before?
BlaineI think that all the time.
BlaineAnd I think it's even mentioned in the first season.
BlaineRight.
BlaineLike, oh, I must have drank too much last night because I'm tired today.
BlaineI love that.
DonovanOr like, what if they did a particularly hard leg workout and the guy is struggling to walk?
DonovanWhat?
DonovanHow you're sharing physicality with someone that you don't know.
DonovanIt's so interesting.
DonovanBut that, that series of them zoning out and then coming to, you know, like, how do you even know when it's four minutes till five and you're like, all right, I'm gonna knock off.
Speaker BYeah.
DonovanTo them you have to walk down this hallway that in their world they're gonna walk directly back down.
DonovanThese are the things that start when you're watching and you're like, this feels so profound in what it's saying, but then you say it out loud and it's kind of like, it's interesting, but it's not as you almost have to experience it in show to get the full feeling.
Speaker BThere's some point they keep focusing on the clock and also looking at watches and stuff.
Speaker BAnd I felt the same way, you know, where it's like you start to wonder like, what are you counting down to?
Speaker BThere's, you know, there's nothing.
DonovanWhy do you care?
Speaker BYeah, I think it, I'm probably gonna misuse this, this word.
Speaker BSomething that the.
Speaker BThe in and out and just the in and out and just focusing solely on them really encouraged at least me as a viewer to kind of experience this in like a phenomenological way.
DonovanRight.
Speaker BWhere I'm like, really?
Speaker BLike, what, what is it like to get behind these guys eyes and just kind of identify very closely with them?
Speaker BAnd I think keeping it up on the ennis the whole episode also really helped with that.
Speaker BYou're kind of stuck in there too.
BlaineAnd one of the things this episode did was use more close ups, I think than it ever has.
BlaineWe had.
BlaineEspecially in this environment, we.
BlaineWe have those close up.
BlaineYou did what you're talking about.
BlaineAnd also just made the containment feel worse.
BlaineBecause those close up also, they weren't just close ups of one person.
BlaineIt was a two shot, I guess is what you call them.
BlaineIt's where you would see the little bit of the other person they were talking to right there.
BlaineWhich in Milchick's case felt like he is the one that's containing them well.
DonovanAnd you're also.
DonovanThat's being used to pull back on season one's expansion of their universe.
DonovanYou know, as they go to talk to other departments and they seem to have some autonomy to run the halls and find this different, you know.
DonovanAnd then they wake up, you know, and they see the outside world and all of a sudden this is as small as it's felt since episode one of season one.
DonovanYou know, they only go.
DonovanThey're in their office and they go to the break room.
DonovanAnd that's pretty much it.
DonovanThere's some roaming the halls, but not a lot.
BlaineIt builds a lot of tension that way.
BlaineAnd so did the camera work of him running in the hall.
BlaineIt's like almost CGI kind of camera work.
BlaineNo, I don't think it was.
Speaker BI may be easily impressed, but I really like that beginning.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BFor me it set the tone very well for the rest of the episode.
BlaineBit of silence to build some tension too.
BlaineMs.
BlaineHwang, she was just staring at Mark after telling him she's not his friend.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BI really liked how long they stuck on Adam Scott's face there.
BlaineMe too.
BlaineThere's.
DonovanAnd then he says three friends.
Speaker BYeah.
BlaineYeah, she's good.
DonovanSo good.
Speaker BThe young woman they have playing Ms.
Speaker BWong, I found her manager face to be like, it's so good.
Speaker BThey have like a kid doing this because it's like she's.
Speaker BShe's doing such a good like supervisor face.
Speaker BBut you know, you're 13 or however old you are.
DonovanThat's what in that Variety interview they said they read a bunch of.
DonovanOf young people for that role.
DonovanBut this particular young actress just had such a camera.
DonovanWhat he said like a corporate face or come something like that.
DonovanThat was.
DonovanYeah, just.
DonovanIt's that kind of detached, like I'm smiling but I'm not really here kind of thing.
BlaineIn reality, the actor is 18, looks younger.
Speaker BWorked for me.
BlaineHelly kind of has a.
BlaineSome silence in that she doesn't tell what happens to her on the outside.
BlaineShe doesn't reveal she's one of the Egans.
BlaineShe chooses a lie.
DonovanWell, this is the question, right?
BlaineYeah.
DonovanLike, is the.
DonovanIt's either a bit on the nose or it's red herring material that, like, is that heli or has she been.
DonovanThat's actually her Audi come in to try to tamp down the.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanRevolution or whatever.
BlaineYep.
DonovanBut there's two reads, right.
DonovanLike she's either either that is the Annie that they've known and she's withholding that information out of shame.
BlaineUh huh.
DonovanYou know, or it's the Audi and she's.
DonovanThey talked about what.
DonovanWhat survives your subconscious.
DonovanLike some of her at times, she could have a shorter fuse than the others if things didn't go her way.
DonovanLike, maybe that's a life of privilege coming out subconsciously.
DonovanThese are YouTubers talking about season one.
DonovanThought that was a pretty astute observation.
DonovanBut does she say that there was a gardener there at night?
DonovanBecause she would have lived in a very fancy house where there were gardeners working on the grounds.
Speaker BI was wondering that too.
Speaker BLike, is this just in the back of her head how it should be?
DonovanRight.
DonovanSo either way, it's kind of incriminating about who she actually is.
DonovanEither she's a bad liar that came up with a.
DonovanA bad story at that moment, or it's seeping through her.
DonovanHer subconscious and it's very much like a.
DonovanIt's a banana.
DonovanWhat could it cost?
DonovanKind of.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BI like the.
Speaker BI'm curious to see where this one is going to go.
Speaker BI hope it goes well with Helly.
Speaker BJust because her, like, visceral hatred for herself, I thought was one of the best and most interesting parts of season one.
Speaker BAnd it makes sense, you know, kind of what you just said, Adam, makes sense.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BIf she's someone who's not used to being told what to do, to be captured, you know, imprisoned essentially by her own self, must completely drive.
Speaker BSo I'm.
Speaker BI'm curious.
Speaker BLike, is it.
Speaker BIs it shame?
Speaker BIs it.
Speaker BDoes she not want to reveal it?
Speaker BIs she.
Speaker BWhat's going on?
Speaker BI.
Speaker BI think it's interesting and I hope they play with it.
Speaker BWell.
DonovanShe had one of the most haunting lines when she.
DonovanThey videotape her out outside self telling her, annie, you are not a human being.
DonovanYou don't get to make this decision.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BYou're not whole and complete in the same way that I am.
DonovanRight.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineYou can also point to.
BlaineShe has just A second or two long of trouble to turn on her computer and her.
DonovanYep.
BlaineAnd her.
BlaineAny shouldn't have just reached and turned it on after the experience.
DonovanYeah.
BlaineDid you guys catch that?
BlaineLumen has brought in these three new micro data workers from.
BlaineThey did so from shutting down offices because it seems like there's not enough people that.
BlaineThat were interested in being severed.
BlaineThey had to shut those offices down.
DonovanIt's an interesting read.
Speaker BYeah.
DonovanAnd the.
DonovanThey allude to how many more, you know, in that video that they show them, they allude to how many like 200 something spaces worldwide.
DonovanRight.
DonovanBut does that imply that all of them have severed workers?
DonovanOr that in first replacement crew talks about like, you know, oh, we had animatronic.
DonovanWhat did they call that room where you go to see the house and the perpetuity room.
DonovanThey know.
DonovanThey must.
DonovanThey're just standing still.
DonovanThey must be like an older one or one of the guys had come from even an even poorer, older facility.
DonovanIt's just an interesting.
Speaker BThey were just mops for that guy.
DonovanYeah.
DonovanWhat?
Speaker BHis.
Speaker BHis perpetuity room was just mops.
DonovanWhat's going on here?
BlaineAnd his elevator was a rope.
DonovanHow.
BlaineHow can that be?
BlaineI don't get it.
BlaineAnd he also had a.
BlaineThey had awarded him the same thing that they had given Mark, which is a picture of your face.
BlaineAnd except his isn't in glass.
BlaineIt's just carved of wood.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BIt's just like a rock.
BlaineIt puts me on edge how their faces change in the elevator.
BlaineLike their expressions.
BlaineIt's almost uncanny.
BlaineValley or AI feeling.
BlaineIt's not.
BlaineI don't think.
BlaineBut it's probably just great acting, but makes you feel uneasy.
Speaker BI wouldn't be surprised if they jazzed it up a little just with like some of the camera tricks they do.
Speaker BI think.
Speaker BAdam, I think you said this, but I really did like the choice to be.
Speaker BThey're in the elevator and you get half a second of Allie them.
Speaker BAnd then I thought Adam Scott did a great job of this the first season.
Speaker BAnd then the face changes and now you're the.
Speaker BAnd I think that is unsettling.
BlaineIt is.
BlaineMs.
BlaineHuang's actor is actually 18.
BlaineAnother, by the way, is that the voice of the new training video, Lumen is Listening, is voiced by Keanu Reeves.
Speaker BOh, I didn't know.
Speaker BThat's awesome.
BlaineI didn't pick it up.
Speaker BI didn't pick up on that.
BlaineIt wouldn't surprise me if there's some connection to Gemma and Ms.
BlaineSwing.
DonovanThere's that room.
DonovanRemember when they're walking around and they see the.
DonovanThe livestock being cloned or something's going on there, and they say they're not ready.
DonovanThey showed that in the previously on.
DonovanRight.
Speaker BYes, they did.
DonovanGot to be a reason for that.
BlaineDo you not find it odd that the characters don't usually see themselves as having another side?
BlaineThat they're.
BlaineIt's almost like these characters are very strict about referencing the Audi and the Innie, as if it's a totally different person and not themselves.
BlaineLike Mark and Helly discussing his wife.
BlaineI think one of them, Mark says it, it's the same ish person, so I need to try to find her or I'm the same ish person.
BlaineIt's weird that they don't consider that.
BlaineI mean, that's a very probably natural feeling.
BlaineBut I do think it's kind of weird that they don't logically make the connection that.
BlaineNo, that's me still.
DonovanWell, I think they were playing with that in the.
DonovanWhen they're in the.
DonovanThe first meeting with Ms.
DonovanWong, it's.
DonovanAnd they're staring at each other.
DonovanYou know, there's that moment of like, I have four new friends and they just had that stare down.
DonovanAnd we talked about.
DonovanYou're kind of wondering, like, if she is the clone, maybe or possibly even like his child or something like that.
DonovanIs there some, like, subconscious thing happening here that transcends the severance procedure?
DonovanBut then, like, that conversation you're talking about Blaine, between him and Heli, has to be like the most layered conversation that's happened so far.
DonovanIf you're reading into it, that Heli is somehow either the Audi or has been conditioned in some different way than everyone else.
DonovanAnd obviously they have just made out and been hilariously.
DonovanIt's funny that this show can be comical when it's dealing with all these funny themes.
DonovanLike in the middle of that.
DonovanThat video, when they show them kissing, is it Dylan that says the fuck?
Speaker BYeah.
BlaineNo, this show can be funny.
BlaineAll good dramas can be funny.
DonovanAnd there's still office politics going on.
Speaker BYeah.
BlaineAnd then they had another one that got me was Mark W's calling him Mr.
BlaineMilkshake Shake.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BI also enjoyed.
Speaker BYeah.
Speaker BMark W.
Speaker BSaying what you like to Miss Wong.
Speaker BWhy.
Speaker BWhy are you a child?
DonovanYeah.
Speaker BShe's like, that's great.
Speaker BBecause of when I was born.
BlaineAnd we were all thinking it.
BlaineWhy is this a kid?
BlaineSpeaking of profundity, Irv's statement that the last time he was happy was when he was not trying to be happy.
BlaineJust floored me.
BlaineI almost had to reach and pause it and be like what?
BlaineWait, let me think about this.
BlaineAnd then you add that he was referring to working and not trying to be happy.
BlaineI'm sure it might make it less thoughtful, but I don't know.
BlaineIt struck me.
BlaineMilchick's really putting the mind games to them.
BlaineAnd I'll tell you this.
BlaineI don't believe a word he says.
BlaineI would not be surprised if Dylan doesn't even have a wife that he makes up this.
BlaineGretchen.
BlaineI know he's got a kid.
Speaker BRight?
Speaker BBecause we saw him in the closet or I think he was in the closet at his house when he came awake or whatever.
DonovanIf people talked about them treating them like children in the first one, you're starting to see maybe more adult levels of manipulation.
DonovanLike.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanIt seems so on the nose to create a divisive element with this crew of four who's caused you problems.
DonovanTo privilege one with information.
DonovanSet them apart and then send them back out.
DonovanThat's just a little crack opening that can turn into something significant.
Speaker BThat's just good management.
Speaker BDivide, divide and conquer.
DonovanRight there.
DonovanExactly.
Speaker BCan you.
Speaker BCan you imagine if they had brought.
Speaker BIf this universe.
Speaker BIf this workplace ran on Shogun rules.
BlaineGo on.
Speaker BThey'd be, I don't know, they'd be, you know, they'd be convincing seppuku every other episode.
DonovanYou know, who wouldn't have had an uprising if they'd been in charge.
Speaker BRight?
DonovanYeah.
DonovanBut she.
BlaineUh huh.
BlaineThe adult manipulation of having the corporation swallow up the rebellion or say we're on your side.
BlaineThat's always a way to kill dissent.
Speaker BOh for sure.
DonovanAnd it's such a genius thing to.
DonovanYou know, it immediately made me think of like being in US History class as a kid and like you learn all of these things that are these celebrated figures all along that were enemies of the state when they were alive.
DonovanLike even thinking back to like something that's probably going to be challenged with civil rights.
DonovanBasic things like that.
DonovanThese were all criminals at one point, you know.
DonovanAnd now they've been absorbed into a.
DonovanYou know, made tidy and thus defanged of any possibility of disruption.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineTake a look at which politicians celebrated Martin Luther King Jr.
BlaineS holiday right yesterday.
BlaineWhen it comes to milchick, it's so impressive what Tramel Tillman can do in making you scared shitless.
BlaineAnd then quite at ease just within the same millisecond.
BlaineAnd in the scene with Dylan and the blueprint for the visitation room, it's simultaneous.
BlaineIt's like, God damn, this is scary.
BlaineBut that, you know, of course, that would be nice for any to get to know.
BlaineOh, okay.
BlaineI do have a family, and I get to see them once a week or whatever they're planning on doing.
DonovanI do get the sense that he, at this point, is not completely motivated by cruelty.
DonovanHe's not a sadist, like he says.
DonovanI'm here to replace the sadist.
DonovanEssentially.
DonovanLike, he.
DonovanHe does seem just like he believes in the company and what they're trying to do and doesn't want to be cruel, but also believes in the company more than he believes in not being cruel.
BlaineHuh.
BlaineCould be the case with him.
BlaineMilkshake.
Speaker BMilkshake.
DonovanWell, there's all this, like, weird pseudo religious kind of stuff about the company.
DonovanRight.
DonovanThat, like, you.
BlaineYes.
DonovanIt's not just like, you can be a company man.
DonovanYou can be a true believer.
Speaker BYeah.
BlaineAnd I'm not trying to be cruel, but it.
BlaineBut it makes me think of some sort of weird hybrid of Mormonism and Scientology.
DonovanYeah.
Speaker BScientology.
Speaker BAt least for sure.
BlaineWell, I am being cruel to Scientology.
BlaineI'm not trying to be too cruel to the.
BlaineTo the Mormons of our.
BlaineOf our society.
DonovanWell, it's got to be something, too, that the.
DonovanThe company was founded in 1865.
DonovanRight.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineI think that's maybe what strikes me as Brigham Young kind of thing.
DonovanYeah.
BlaineI mean, this might be really general and humorous, but just thoughts on having.
BlaineOh, gosh, Ally.
BlaineWhat's her name?
BlaineActress who plays maybe on Arrested Development.
BlaineShe's part of the crew, or at least was temporarily.
BlaineWere y'all excited to see that?
BlaineShe's probably gonna be a part of the show.
Speaker BI saw it when she walked was on screen for the first time.
Speaker BAll I could think was, bumpy road ahead.
DonovanI saw some people online saying what a great bait and switch to.
DonovanYou know, because they were in a lot of promotional material being involved, and it's almost like a season two of House of Cards thing.
DonovanWe're like, well, this main actress is gone now.
DonovanThey have to come back.
DonovanRight.
DonovanLike, people.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanCan be hidden in the severed world and then be found again.
Speaker BOh, for sure.
BlaineAnd the Mark W.
BlaineActor is known kind of as a character actor.
BlaineYou would think he probably returns.
BlaineAnd then the award of having your face carved in that wood for the Italian actor, that's still in the time for it.
Speaker BYeah.
BlaineBut, yeah, Dylan didn't have time for it.
BlaineHe just swept it into his drawer, which is.
BlaineWhich is what we'll do.
BlaineWe'll sweep everything Into a drawer until what, Friday?
BlaineWatch Severance once more.
DonovanAnd can I say one?
DonovanOne thing that we didn't touch on that I thought was really moving was Dylan talking to Irving, begging him not to go out.
DonovanThis episode that was such a central part of it was you would have to essentially kill yourself on behalf of the Audi.
DonovanLike if you leave, you no longer exist.
BlaineBut would it feel like that would.
BlaineI mean, to me.
BlaineI see, that's.
BlaineThat's an argument.
DonovanIt's not.
DonovanIt's not a decision of suicide.
DonovanIt's like a decision of non existence, which.
BlaineYes.
DonovanDifferent.
DonovanThey would believe it serves the greater good of their own psyche.
DonovanFraming it only in from any's perspective this episode and having them confront that decision for the first time.
DonovanAnd for one of them to be like, I need you're my friend and I don't want to lose you.
DonovanLike, that's not just like a.
DonovanI've really enjoyed working with you and I don't want you to leave.
DonovanIt's a I'll never see you again.
BlaineYes.
DonovanKind of thing.
BlaineYes.
DonovanThat was so heavy.
BlaineYeah.
DonovanSo well done.
BlaineI suppose it's me not being as enveloped in the logic of the show, but I often will think, but you're not gonna die.
BlaineYou'll actually free in yourself.
BlaineYou'll be your Audi, you know.
BlaineBut they don't know that.
BlaineYeah.
Speaker BI think it's doing a great.
Speaker BAsking a really good question that is kind of like a feel like it is a philosophical question.
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BLike if I.
Speaker BIt can go into a matter transporter and my body is instantly disassembled and reassembled on Mars, am I the same person?
Speaker BRight.
Speaker BI have continuity of consciousness.
Speaker BBut did the personality survive?
Speaker BSame thing for these guys, Right?
Speaker BLike, what is their personality?
Speaker BIf it's deleted, would it go.
BlaineWould it be how much of your memories?
Speaker BWell, I mean, that's the question, Right?
BlaineInteresting.
BlaineYeah.
BlaineThat's why the show is good, is that it tackles these kinds of things.
BlaineIt gets you to question, but at the same time provides good characters, good direction, great cinematography, good sets.
BlaineYeah, it's.
BlaineIt's worth our time for sure.
BlaineWe'll probably return to it next week.
BlaineI don't see why not.
BlaineI don't know what the other topic will be or if we'll have one, but anyway, you can hear us on Tuesday morning.
BlaineMost of the time things got hectic.
BlaineI accidentally did not get the episode out until Tuesday afternoon recently.
BlaineBut Tuesdays count on us.
BlaineOkay.
BlaineAnd if you want to reach out to us by all means do.
BlaineWe'd love it.
BlaineFind us on thealabamatake.
BlaineCom.
BlaineYou can email thealabamatake@gmail.com if you have ideas, questions, thoughts, suggestions for Adam and Donovan.
BlaineI'm Blaine, and we'll be back into the world of severance next week.