Intensity Heats Up in 'Shōgun' and A Mystery in 'Sugar'

[00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to Taking It Down. If you're a first time listener, welcome. It's good to have you. Hope you enjoy it.

[00:00:08] We're the TV and streaming podcast in a part of the Alabama Takes Family of podcast. There are plenty to see and hear there.

[00:00:15] Before I get any deeper, let's hear from our friends over at Polyphonic Press.

[00:00:20] Hey, this is Jeremy from Polyphonic Press. Along with my co-host and best friend, John Van Dyke, we are exploring classic albums completely at random.

[00:00:30] At the top of each show, we have no idea what album we're going to be listening to. We have the patented random album generator to give us an album.

[00:00:38] Sometimes it's an album we're very familiar with and sometimes it's an artist we have never heard of. Either way, it gives us a chance to really listen to these classic releases

[00:00:47] and gives us insights that we may never have thought of before.

[00:00:51] For something to come out of them. Maybe he needed the other Beatles in the room at that time.

[00:00:56] Well, I think so. And I think if you watch that Peter Jackson documentary from a few years ago about the Let It Be sessions,

[00:01:07] I think it was kind of, the writing was on the wall. I mean they were breaking up.

[00:01:13] John Lennon didn't sign the papers to officially dissolve the Beatles until 1974.

[00:01:19] So if this sounds interesting, be sure to follow Polyphonic Press on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube and everywhere else podcasts are available.

[00:01:29] We upload every Tuesday morning and we strongly encourage you to listen along with us. Cheers!

[00:01:37] Yeah, I hope you're good. I'm great.

[00:01:43] The Alabama Take and I, being the editor in chief, have begun a new little endeavor. It's a newsletter.

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[00:03:21] The streamer that you would use on the site to play a podcast is really good, functional, user-friendly.

[00:03:29] Go check it out. I want to talk a little about something that's always been eating at me.

[00:03:35] You're not going to get any spoilers here at all. Not in the beginning.

[00:03:39] That's our biggest policy on this podcast lately. With this podcast, we do not get into spoilers until we get into the episodes more granularly.

[00:03:49] We want everyone to listen to see if they can find a show amongst so many that they might prefer.

[00:03:55] So we try to watch for you and tell you what we think.

[00:03:59] And if we really like it then we'll probably come back to it week to week and spoil whatever episode it is.

[00:04:04] That brings me to the show Sugar on Apple TV Plus.

[00:04:08] Again, I'm not going to spoil anything so don't worry.

[00:04:10] But there's been a bit of information that's in a few headlines that really takes away something from the show.

[00:04:18] I concede one of Matt Zoller site's points he makes often.

[00:04:23] A great show is a great show and a great movie is a great movie.

[00:04:26] Whether you know any spoilers about it or not, it shouldn't hinder anything.

[00:04:31] If you know one or two things going in that shouldn't hinder.

[00:04:34] Still, let me go into most things blind.

[00:04:38] I get the idea of stay off social media then.

[00:04:41] Come on.

[00:04:42] Seriously? That's the solution? Stay off social media?

[00:04:46] I run a website. That's going to be pretty hard for me to stay off social media.

[00:04:50] I'd love to stay off social media. I'd like to get off some of it.

[00:04:53] Other than having a very good record of some photos, I really would like to get off of it.

[00:04:58] If I want to know more about a show or movie, I'll click past the headline.

[00:05:02] I'll click on it.

[00:05:03] I'm speaking specifically here of Alan Sepinwall, but it happens to be on him.

[00:05:07] Stop putting big elements of your show in the headline. Stop it.

[00:05:12] It's why I do not follow him and a few other critics in social media anymore

[00:05:17] despite the fact that they are reputable extraordinary critics and writers.

[00:05:21] But that's been one of our mainstays here and we're really pushing it and we hope it works.

[00:05:26] We're putting a lot more determination into this idea of like, we'll merely tell you

[00:05:30] whether we like to show enough to recommend it to you, give you some vague reasons why.

[00:05:35] If we discuss anything about it, we'll stack those recommendations up front

[00:05:40] and then we'll get into each of those shows later.

[00:05:43] That's for you. I hope that you find it works.

[00:05:46] Let me know if you like that. We can change.

[00:05:49] That's a simple change to make. Let us know.

[00:05:51] We won't reveal anything till later.

[00:05:54] In your podcast app, there are timestamps in some podcast apps and like on YouTube,

[00:05:59] you can click on the time and go straight to that segment.

[00:06:02] Use the transcript as well. I had my doubts about transcripts about podcasts.

[00:06:07] I didn't see the point quite, but now that I use them in Apple Podcast,

[00:06:12] I got to be honest, I'm basic. That's the podcast app I use.

[00:06:15] I just love it. You can figure out exactly where you want to go

[00:06:19] or if you miss something, you can search keywords. Love it.

[00:06:22] I recommend it. If that's your thing, no spoiler to hear.

[00:06:27] I'm going to talk about the third episode of Sugar later in the podcast though with specifics.

[00:06:33] If you've seen it, join me there. Check your timestamps.

[00:06:37] I recommend this show a lot. I find it fascinating,

[00:06:40] but let's see if that changes this week.

[00:06:42] So let's get into this week's podcast.

[00:06:45] I love to take projection.

[00:06:53] Well, it's on my mind. Adam's not with us this week.

[00:06:58] It's me, my buddy Donovan. Adam is legit.

[00:07:02] He has gone mainstream.

[00:07:05] And we're praying for him.

[00:07:06] Send prayers. Adam's been really busy playing music with DeKett Johnston.

[00:07:12] This week and last week he was on the road.

[00:07:14] He was down in New Orleans. He and DeKett opened for Lo, one night in Birmingham.

[00:07:20] How about that?

[00:07:21] Like it's so cool that Adam just did this because there's actually a big New Yorker profile

[00:07:26] that just came out on Alan Sparhawk talking about these shows that he's just been doing.

[00:07:30] And it's just like...

[00:07:31] And he's releasing a new album, right?

[00:07:33] Yes. Yeah, him and his son.

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:36] And he opened for Adam and DeKett and the rest of the guys playing.

[00:07:41] Also open for Loose Cattle Band, which is Michael Severus.

[00:07:45] By the way, Michael, if you're listening. Hey.

[00:07:48] Mike, if you're listening, my dad really appreciated the shout out because he did love Fringe.

[00:07:52] That's amazing. Michael seems like a really dope guy.

[00:07:56] I really do.

[00:07:57] Can we all hang out together?

[00:08:00] Yeah, I hope he is listening.

[00:08:01] He sounds awesome.

[00:08:03] He does.

[00:08:05] Yeah. No, I mean that legitimately.

[00:08:07] Like he actually sounds like a really nice dude.

[00:08:09] No, he does.

[00:08:10] So yeah, give him a follow on Instagram.

[00:08:13] He seems cool.

[00:08:14] Give him a little shout.

[00:08:16] Yeah, you heard me in the cold open joining me now.

[00:08:19] You've heard him already.

[00:08:20] It's my friend, one of my great friends and Connecticut Southerner in King Arthur's Trumpian regime.

[00:08:26] It's Mr. Donovan Rynwald.

[00:08:28] Great to be talking to you, Blaine.

[00:08:30] There he is.

[00:08:31] Donovan, neither you nor I have seen the newly released three episodes of Franklin.

[00:08:36] Not yet.

[00:08:37] We're shooting from the key on the cat here.

[00:08:40] How pumped are you?

[00:08:41] Exactly.

[00:08:42] Oh man, like the more you learn about Ben Franklin,

[00:08:45] the more awesome he is.

[00:08:47] And like if the show gets like a tenth of how horny he was and how awesome he was in it, amazing.

[00:08:54] Like, and like he did all kinds of great shit during the Revolution of War.

[00:08:57] Like when the US invaded or the colonies invaded Canada and let's see, they took Montreal

[00:09:03] and then they couldn't take Quebec.

[00:09:05] They sent Franklin to Montreal to like help administer stuff.

[00:09:08] Like it's like who?

[00:09:10] We're doing something insane.

[00:09:12] Who can we get?

[00:09:13] Franklin.

[00:09:14] He's old, he's horny, he wants to go to Canada.

[00:09:17] It's awesome.

[00:09:18] This one is set in December of 1776.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Michael Douglas plays Ben Franklin.

[00:09:25] So if you want to cast a horny older guy, they nailed it.

[00:09:29] I actually like Michael Douglas.

[00:09:31] I've seen him in some stuff.

[00:09:32] I very much have enjoyed him.

[00:09:34] I don't know if I can get away from the Michael Douglas-ness of it with him as

[00:09:39] Franklin.

[00:09:40] Or is that going to be a perfect blend?

[00:09:42] I can't figure it out.

[00:09:43] I think I know what you mean, right?

[00:09:45] Where it's almost like you see the actor too much.

[00:09:48] Like my thing that I keep popping back to every time is when, you know, in the very

[00:09:54] good, Greta Gerwig's Little Women, when the dad comes home, right?

[00:09:58] And the dad opens the door and he's like, hey, I'm home and it's Bob Odenkirk.

[00:10:02] And it's Bob Odenkirk.

[00:10:03] I'm just like, I can't unsee that.

[00:10:06] It's like, really?

[00:10:08] Bob Odenkirk's the dad?

[00:10:10] I mean, I want him to get roles and he's not bad in it.

[00:10:13] I just know every Mr. Show episode I've ever seen flashes through my brain in that

[00:10:19] moment or even, you know, just Saul on Breaking Bad.

[00:10:24] Even if that's your reference point, right?

[00:10:27] He's going to come in and swindle you.

[00:10:29] He's just a dad, which is not like, which is not like fair to actors, but

[00:10:35] there are some actors I never feel that way about.

[00:10:37] Like I've been thinking about Jesse Plemons this week because he and his wife have that

[00:10:41] movie out and he looks terrifying.

[00:10:43] What movie?

[00:10:44] Wait, what?

[00:10:45] Civil War.

[00:10:46] Oh, they're in that?

[00:10:47] Kristen Dunce is the main character.

[00:10:50] She's a journalist reporting on something and then he is...

[00:10:55] I don't think this is a spoiler because he's in the trailers.

[00:10:59] He has a cameo as either like a militia member that stops.

[00:11:03] Plemons.

[00:11:04] And apparently he's terrifying.

[00:11:06] Like maybe I am just in love with him, but I feel like he just disappears in an insane

[00:11:11] way into every role.

[00:11:13] He's so good.

[00:11:14] He's just watchable.

[00:11:15] I don't know if I'd agree with your assessment that he disappears.

[00:11:19] He's just watchable to me.

[00:11:21] I just think about, you know, he's done everything from a...

[00:11:24] Is it Doug in Breaking Bad?

[00:11:26] Is that his character's name?

[00:11:27] Oh God.

[00:11:28] What is his name in Breaking Bad?

[00:11:29] Yeah, I'm completely blank.

[00:11:30] He's breaking bad character to, you know, like the kind of like kind-hearted buffoon he was

[00:11:37] in the love and death with Elizabeth Olsen to the sort of terrifying next door neighbor

[00:11:43] cop in Game Night.

[00:11:45] Like he's great.

[00:11:46] Yeah, and he's in so much poor.

[00:11:48] Oh, he's...

[00:11:49] And you know what?

[00:11:50] Somebody pointed this out about him.

[00:11:51] He was in Fargo.

[00:11:52] And I really, really...

[00:11:54] Oh, that's the best season of Fargo too.

[00:11:56] The one with him and Kristen Dunst.

[00:11:58] But somebody pointed out too that like he doesn't...

[00:12:01] As an actor, he doesn't seem to have a huge ego.

[00:12:03] Like he just seems to like want to work with cool directors and be in cool movies instead

[00:12:07] of being a star.

[00:12:08] So you're like, you know, he'll take the bit role in The Irishman, right?

[00:12:12] Just to work with Scorsese.

[00:12:13] Wow.

[00:12:14] I think that's cool.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] We are going to talk about that decisive eighth episode of Show Gun in a few seconds.

[00:12:21] But we do say general things about shows even if it's a show we've discussed in

[00:12:25] the past.

[00:12:26] Show Gun, we believe warrants a weekly talk.

[00:12:29] It's just a fun conversation.

[00:12:31] It is.

[00:12:32] But, Donovan, tell viewers something about Show Gun and maybe even the eighth episode,

[00:12:36] The Abyss of Life that will not ruin any of their viewing.

[00:12:40] No spoilers.

[00:12:41] There's some Japanese people in it.

[00:12:43] Uh-huh.

[00:12:44] Uh-huh.

[00:12:45] Deep.

[00:12:46] Can you add more?

[00:12:47] Yeah.

[00:12:48] Okay.

[00:12:49] So there's some Japanese people at it.

[00:12:50] And then I don't know if you guys remember, but the protagonist of the show,

[00:12:53] John Blackthorn, he's an Englishman and he wants his ship in his men.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] Okay.

[00:12:59] That pretty much sums it up really.

[00:13:01] We love this show.

[00:13:02] We love it.

[00:13:03] So yeah, moving forward that was just about all we really wanted to say that didn't

[00:13:07] involve spoilers that we haven't already said.

[00:13:09] You know, we love it.

[00:13:10] We recommend it.

[00:13:11] I would give it a big thumbs up.

[00:13:13] And to those of you who watched the first episode and were like,

[00:13:17] this might be a little too intense for me.

[00:13:19] It goes very, you know, they boil the guy alive

[00:13:22] and they kill the baby and all that.

[00:13:24] Oh, that kind of intensity?

[00:13:25] Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:26] They take their...it's good, but they take the foot off the gas there a little bit.

[00:13:30] A little...I thought you meant intense and keeping up with everything.

[00:13:33] Oh no, it's doing a fine job with that.

[00:13:36] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Some people are like, oh, I don't know.

[00:13:39] That looks a little bloody.

[00:13:40] It's not red wedding every single episode, right?

[00:13:43] There's a lot more going on.

[00:13:45] So we are going to spoil the Abyss of Life, both the Shogun episode

[00:13:49] and our own existential record.

[00:13:52] Our own existence.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:54] I joke last week that we were riding the horse into Ito,

[00:13:57] but that's how this episode actually opens.

[00:13:59] Yes.

[00:14:00] Literally riding the horses into Ito.

[00:14:03] Ito, which will become Tokyo.

[00:14:05] Yeah.

[00:14:06] I didn't know that.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:08] Being unwise to the history of Japan, I didn't know that.

[00:14:11] I mean, it's been around for a while.

[00:14:12] Things have more than one name, right?

[00:14:14] Yeah, for sure.

[00:14:15] That's Torinaga's vast land, his fiefdom, often muddy.

[00:14:22] At least in this episode it was raining quite a bit.

[00:14:24] Sure was.

[00:14:25] Match the mood of the piece.

[00:14:27] Oh no, sorry.

[00:14:28] This may be like I'm going too broad, but this episode was so frustrating.

[00:14:33] Like I liked it, but it was definitely like,

[00:14:36] I think I talked last week about how like for better or for worse,

[00:14:40] either of you were on Torinaga's side.

[00:14:43] And this episode you're just like, oh, do something.

[00:14:46] Just let, which is perfect, right?

[00:14:48] Because that's everybody else in the episode is having,

[00:14:51] it really puts you in there.

[00:14:53] Yes.

[00:14:54] And then so this episode was such like the mud, the rain,

[00:14:57] it felt like a slog.

[00:14:59] And I mean that in the best way,

[00:15:01] just in the sense that I thought they did a really good job

[00:15:03] of conveying the emotion and the frustration,

[00:15:05] it paid off at the end.

[00:15:07] It felt like a slog purposefully.

[00:15:09] Yeah, not in that it was unenjoyable viewing.

[00:15:12] Right.

[00:15:13] But in the sense that it was doing a really good job of conveying

[00:15:16] the attitudes of a bunch of people who just can't believe

[00:15:19] what's happening to them.

[00:15:21] Yeah, visually and the set being muddy.

[00:15:24] Yes.

[00:15:25] And then the rain of the visual fit perfectly.

[00:15:28] Torinaga's looking unwell.

[00:15:30] He's got that cough.

[00:15:32] So much so that he avoids his own son's funeral.

[00:15:35] Yeah, he watches the cremation from the roof of,

[00:15:38] I'm not going to assume his palace or his residence.

[00:15:41] Although this is something I meant to look up.

[00:15:43] It looks like they're building the castle.

[00:15:45] It did look like it was being built.

[00:15:47] And I was going to look up the history of that and completely

[00:15:49] forgot until this moment.

[00:15:51] Well, he'll get the 49 days of customary grievance

[00:15:54] that's allowed someone in this period of Japan

[00:15:56] before he must surrender to Ishido and in Osaka.

[00:16:00] Now, is it me or all these rules and customs

[00:16:03] really allowing for a man like Torinaga

[00:16:05] to work around some things?

[00:16:08] We've already seen it when he retired from the regents

[00:16:11] and forced their hand to have to figure out

[00:16:13] who's going to be a fifth regent.

[00:16:15] And we see he's getting a break for his morning in the burial.

[00:16:19] Look, I'm no military genius by any stretch,

[00:16:22] but someone in Japan needs to step up and say,

[00:16:24] my guys, if we're sincere about this Torinaga beheading,

[00:16:28] maybe we need to play a bit fast

[00:16:30] and loose with the policy manual this week.

[00:16:33] Maybe we can forego the Title IX training

[00:16:35] and just shorten up the morning time.

[00:16:38] Just an idea.

[00:16:39] I think it's so good because first off, yes.

[00:16:42] And I think the episode explicitly says

[00:16:46] he can work with this.

[00:16:48] But on the other hand too, right?

[00:16:50] It's about your legitimacy, right?

[00:16:52] Like if Ishido comes and beheads Torinaga,

[00:16:56] doesn't allow him to mourn, et cetera, et cetera,

[00:16:59] he's undercutting his own legitimacy to rule

[00:17:01] because he's ruling a recently divided,

[00:17:04] or until very recently divided Japan.

[00:17:07] Right?

[00:17:08] So a move he makes against Torinaga could unsettle

[00:17:11] his right to be on the Council of Regents

[00:17:14] and it could cause people to question.

[00:17:16] So it's a balancing act, right?

[00:17:19] If Ishido could have just killed Torinaga,

[00:17:21] he would have, right?

[00:17:23] But he has to play the game,

[00:17:25] especially so that it doesn't seem like he's trying to usurp power

[00:17:30] from the air.

[00:17:31] That makes a lot of sense.

[00:17:32] That's my interpretation.

[00:17:34] I may be completely wrong.

[00:17:35] That's perfect.

[00:17:36] You don't leave a staff meeting of Torinaga's thinking,

[00:17:38] this could have been an email.

[00:17:40] Oh man.

[00:17:43] Last week it was Torinaga's employee benefits program.

[00:17:48] This week it's his fucking staff meetings.

[00:17:50] I mean imagine like you're getting called in,

[00:17:52] you're debating policy,

[00:17:54] and then an old guy starts yelling,

[00:17:56] pulls out his knife and cuts his guts out.

[00:17:59] You can't do that in an email.

[00:18:01] And there was no PowerPoint too,

[00:18:03] he's a very effective communicator.

[00:18:05] That's right.

[00:18:06] He doesn't need PowerPoint.

[00:18:08] Any surprise to you that Yabusheshi,

[00:18:11] I just butchered the poor man's name,

[00:18:13] any surprise that he ranks deaths when it comes to dying?

[00:18:17] No.

[00:18:18] That's better than this.

[00:18:19] Everything about like he's such a scoundrel.

[00:18:22] I mean as Torinaga himself said, right,

[00:18:24] they're both Goss Hocks.

[00:18:26] They're completely predictable.

[00:18:28] Like everything that he does in this show,

[00:18:31] you're like of course that dude is doing that.

[00:18:34] Ranking deaths.

[00:18:37] Trying to figure out how best to sell out his,

[00:18:41] sell out his side.

[00:18:43] He's great.

[00:18:45] Yeah.

[00:18:46] He starts cozying up with a black thorn at the end of it.

[00:18:50] He was like oh no, we're,

[00:18:51] he's called him a dog before,

[00:18:53] but now he's like oh no, we're allies.

[00:18:55] No, it's just anything.

[00:18:56] It is about time that the Anjin and Yabusheshi are friends.

[00:19:01] They need to be pals and go on adventures,

[00:19:03] which could be happening.

[00:19:05] It seems like they're on a ship together headed toward Osaka at the very end.

[00:19:10] The T-scene between Butaro and Markio is very delicate.

[00:19:15] Yes.

[00:19:16] Delicate from the point of view of a director handling how to set it,

[00:19:22] pace it, and their actions.

[00:19:24] I agree.

[00:19:25] It was one of those moments that made me think like,

[00:19:28] first off the sets in this show are great.

[00:19:31] The setting establishes some of the mood,

[00:19:37] the feeling, right?

[00:19:39] The back and forth.

[00:19:40] You know it's usually pretty good directing if you don't really notice it,

[00:19:44] if that makes sense.

[00:19:45] The back and forth between him and Marko.

[00:19:49] Yeah, it was very delicate like you said.

[00:19:51] The emotion was at least for me.

[00:19:54] I may be reading too much into this,

[00:19:57] but for me it's like this dude's bearing his soul here essentially.

[00:20:01] Yes.

[00:20:02] And so you're like, that's a big thing for him.

[00:20:05] But also this is the same guy who pretty viciously beat her

[00:20:09] a couple episodes ago.

[00:20:11] So there's that tension with him and then there's her,

[00:20:14] what's behind the mask for her, right?

[00:20:16] And then she finally kind of lets it go

[00:20:18] and just rips him apart.

[00:20:20] He's ready to die at this point.

[00:20:22] It's great.

[00:20:23] You get her big reveal to him

[00:20:26] that her death wish was just to be out of his grasp.

[00:20:29] It's probably about as bad a way as a little tea time could go, right?

[00:20:36] It's probably like the worst ending.

[00:20:38] Fuck this, I'm going to Torinaga staff me.

[00:20:40] Yeah, I will kill myself.

[00:20:42] Rather than hang out with your dumb ass.

[00:20:45] Blackthorn fights one of his men who are now,

[00:20:48] to him the barbarians.

[00:20:50] Well, it's because he discovered bathing.

[00:20:52] Exactly.

[00:20:53] Once you've decided about.

[00:20:55] Now all he sees is a dirty degenerate Dutchman.

[00:20:59] Who doesn't?

[00:21:02] That fight between him and that crewman is so pivotal

[00:21:05] because it puts him in such a limbo existence

[00:21:09] and that not belonging anywhere and he admits it to Yabuseche

[00:21:14] is just tinged with sadness really.

[00:21:17] I mean, I'm not going to read Ursula K. Lugwin's classic novel,

[00:21:21] The Left Hand of Darkness.

[00:21:23] No.

[00:21:24] So it's kind of remembered and reminded me of the ending of this

[00:21:26] and I'll be brief because there's probably means nothing to anyone but me

[00:21:28] but it takes place on a planet where there are human beings, right?

[00:21:32] And then there's a visitor from Earth

[00:21:34] but the human beings or he's like an ambassador from Earth

[00:21:37] but the human beings on this planet do not have a fixed gender

[00:21:40] that go between male and female just depending on many things.

[00:21:43] They'll procreate as males, they'll bear children as women

[00:21:48] and at the end and they see fixed gender as something very upsetting

[00:21:52] and like wrong and unnatural.

[00:21:55] And at the end of the book, folks from Earth come back

[00:21:58] to basically pick up the ambassador

[00:22:00] and they seem strange to him, these people of fixed gender

[00:22:04] after he's gone through these experiences

[00:22:06] and it is that like that's got to be like the saddest place to be, right?

[00:22:11] Like you're somewhat of a monster to the people you live amongst

[00:22:15] and yet your own people now see monstrous to you.

[00:22:18] You're in the nation of one right there.

[00:22:20] Right. True loneliness.

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:23] Well, much like you I was really hoping Blackthorn would punch

[00:22:26] the smarmy priest Father Martin.

[00:22:28] I actually kind of like him

[00:22:30] and I like Torinaga's jokes with him. He's so good.

[00:22:33] Torinaga, like really if there's one thing we've learned from this episode

[00:22:37] is that he's a prankster and he can play the long game.

[00:22:40] Yeah.

[00:22:41] Yeah.

[00:22:42] Who's that? Oh, those are your neighbors.

[00:22:45] The courtesans. Huh.

[00:22:47] Torinaga says don't speak Japanese to me.

[00:22:51] It's like like that.

[00:22:54] That's a good moment too where it's like he makes like everything go for Marko, right?

[00:22:59] And the priest is somewhat bewildered.

[00:23:03] I actually kind of like that priest.

[00:23:04] Not as bad as the other ones.

[00:23:05] He seems a little bit more sincere.

[00:23:07] A little less ruthless, a little less bloodthirsty.

[00:23:10] His superior seemed a little bit more Game of Thrones-y I guess.

[00:23:14] Oh.

[00:23:15] Lady Ochi-ba, did she hasten the nun's death?

[00:23:19] The former wife of the dead leader?

[00:23:21] I don't know.

[00:23:22] Huh.

[00:23:23] I think that that so I was watching thinking the exact thing right like when

[00:23:27] she's like here we take this medicine right like maybe like we've seen

[00:23:31] that Ochi-ba is pretty willing to act.

[00:23:35] Yeah.

[00:23:36] But did she need to?

[00:23:37] I don't know.

[00:23:38] Yeah.

[00:23:39] That's I think it could have been a mercy killing even.

[00:23:43] Yeah.

[00:23:44] She was clearly not well right like she just had a horrible stroke.

[00:23:47] But this is also the lady who drugged Ochi-ba in order for her husband to

[00:23:50] rape her for an ear.

[00:23:51] Yes.

[00:23:52] Take it as you will I suppose.

[00:23:54] I don't know if anything, anything at all will come of this right but

[00:23:57] you know she's talking to Ochi-ba as like he's our son.

[00:24:01] You know like yes you bore him.

[00:24:03] But he's my son because I am the legitimate wife of the taiko and

[00:24:09] therefore and I wonder like does she maybe she does want to get rid of

[00:24:13] something like who drugged her and everything but she does have her

[00:24:16] quote unquote reward right which is that she's the mother of the air.

[00:24:19] But now she's the sole mother of the air there is only her left.

[00:24:24] I don't know that maybe, maybe not.

[00:24:27] I think that they wanted it to be interpreted one way or the you

[00:24:30] know.

[00:24:31] Yeah.

[00:24:32] And then it was put into interpretation.

[00:24:33] Yeah definitely.

[00:24:34] Got to ask a few questions as we wind it down was Tornaga just

[00:24:38] simply aware of his son's attack on his half brother did he order it

[00:24:43] in hopes to sacrifice his son in a way?

[00:24:47] So my thought is that it's a stroke of luck right and like

[00:24:51] whatever he was playing it fell into his lap as we see at the

[00:24:54] end of the episode right like he's going to take advantage

[00:24:57] like he's taken advantage of two great sacrifices one probably

[00:25:01] I think it's probably accidental.

[00:25:04] Okay for the son and then obviously for Buntaro's father

[00:25:09] killing himself in the middle of the meeting like that.

[00:25:11] You're a huge thanks could not think of his name a huge huge

[00:25:15] sacrifice.

[00:25:16] Okay so that was my next train of thought how much of the plan

[00:25:20] did Hiramatsu know?

[00:25:22] Was he acting on a plan or just out of emotion?

[00:25:25] Did he know he was supposed to do this and maybe not know

[00:25:29] it was going to go this far?

[00:25:31] I believe it was planned because nor Tornaga says basically he

[00:25:37] knew he needed to sell it to them.

[00:25:39] Yes.

[00:25:40] They had to truly believe and I mean that's a pretty good

[00:25:43] sell.

[00:25:44] And the other indication is that Hiramatsu tells the others

[00:25:48] no stop talking it's me only as if to say I can't let

[00:25:53] anything interrupt this.

[00:25:55] Yes.

[00:25:56] And like he stops Buntaro and it is kind of like the

[00:26:00] overarching it's good for one of like the overarching

[00:26:03] themes of the show right which has been like what is loyalty

[00:26:06] and what does it mean?

[00:26:07] Blackthorn believes that at least with him in Tornaga

[00:26:12] it's somewhat transactional right?

[00:26:15] Like he's done his part and Tornaga has done his

[00:26:19] part and now they're done and then someone the

[00:26:23] gardener who's executed for taking the peasant off

[00:26:28] this is a peasant sorry not peasant this is a couple

[00:26:31] episodes back right but like that kind of loyalty to

[00:26:33] like I've served the town but I've also done things

[00:26:37] correctly like that like ennobles his life and then

[00:26:40] there's Hiramatsu who sees that right like his life

[00:26:44] is almost kind of like meaningless if it's not

[00:26:47] serving his lord.

[00:26:48] It was intense it was a good scene.

[00:26:50] Yes.

[00:26:51] It was it was very good and very shocking I thought.

[00:26:54] Yeah I think we're to understand that he was in on

[00:26:57] it I think the only thing maybe the question would

[00:27:00] be was he supposed to follow through or yeah he

[00:27:03] was that was the sacrifice it was you know the

[00:27:05] total sacrifice of his life.

[00:27:07] Yeah I'm I read it and watched it as based on

[00:27:11] what Tornaga said yeah he knew what he was

[00:27:13] doing.

[00:27:14] Okay.

[00:27:15] You know it's like Abraham Lincoln said Blaine

[00:27:17] it's the last full measure of devotion.

[00:27:19] Life.

[00:27:20] I don't remember it's from the Gettysburg address.

[00:27:22] No I mean sacrificing your life.

[00:27:24] Yeah sacrificing your life.

[00:27:25] Yeah.

[00:27:26] Whereas the Bible put it greater love has no man

[00:27:29] than to lay down a life for his friend.

[00:27:31] And that's what Hiramatsu did.

[00:27:33] Pretty pretty pretty intense.

[00:27:35] And they go way.

[00:27:37] Pretty intense pretty unbelievable scene right

[00:27:39] because you are kind of like watching the whole

[00:27:41] to go back to what I kind of said at the

[00:27:43] beginning like watching this whole episode

[00:27:45] you're kind of like this can't be real can it

[00:27:47] like he's got to have a plan right and

[00:27:49] then like the answer is no until right at

[00:27:51] the end where you're like maybe he really

[00:27:53] like I don't know what's going to happen

[00:27:55] now and then it's like no actually he

[00:27:57] does have a plan.

[00:27:59] You knew the coughing and the sickness was

[00:28:01] fake.

[00:28:02] Yes I did know that.

[00:28:04] I mean he jumped up from one of his city

[00:28:06] positions pretty easily.

[00:28:08] Yeah he's not that sick.

[00:28:10] No if at all the very drawn out

[00:28:15] and the way that it was filmed of the

[00:28:17] sepicoot of Hiramatsu was so drawn

[00:28:21] out to it milked of all the

[00:28:25] tension that it could in a skilled way

[00:28:28] not no not in a way that belabored the

[00:28:30] point I mean you were on edge as a

[00:28:33] viewer.

[00:28:34] I was.

[00:28:35] Yeah and then even even through like

[00:28:37] the act itself you're just like there's

[00:28:39] almost a like a level like this can't

[00:28:41] be happening right.

[00:28:42] Yeah you keep thinking somebody's

[00:28:44] gonna stop this or Tornauga's going to

[00:28:46] stop this.

[00:28:47] Yeah you're really playing chicken.

[00:28:50] Yes.

[00:28:51] You know.

[00:28:52] Yeah.

[00:28:53] The episode as a whole was good the

[00:28:55] meeting is for me the standout moment

[00:28:58] just because you know like when is

[00:29:00] Tornauga going to say okay that's

[00:29:03] enough and he never dies.

[00:29:05] Good thing Blackthorn wasn't at the

[00:29:07] meeting.

[00:29:08] He would have been like he can't kill

[00:29:10] himself he needs his shit.

[00:29:12] He probably would have approached

[00:29:14] Tornauga right after Miller I know this

[00:29:16] is a bad time.

[00:29:18] But just giving up.

[00:29:20] Can I have my ship and just

[00:29:23] this episode was actually pretty

[00:29:25] pretty light on Blackthorn I mean we

[00:29:27] did have a big moment where he's in

[00:29:29] limbo now.

[00:29:30] Yeah big moment with him confronting

[00:29:32] the crew member a couple other little

[00:29:36] you know moments with Mariko and

[00:29:39] some of the other you know going to

[00:29:41] Yabashiki all that stuff but you

[00:29:43] know they really weren't they're like

[00:29:45] yeah this is this is happening to set

[00:29:47] up what's going to happen but it was

[00:29:49] really Tornauga's episode I thought.

[00:29:51] The priest gets him a little with the

[00:29:53] are you gonna go see your man dressed

[00:29:54] like that?

[00:29:55] Yes.

[00:29:56] Just a little oh man I would have

[00:29:57] punched him.

[00:29:58] That was great because it's like

[00:29:59] he's like I guess I will take off

[00:30:01] those skirts.

[00:30:03] Yeah I think I'm just super annoyed

[00:30:05] how the priest shaved their head but

[00:30:07] leave the little ring around.

[00:30:09] It's Taunsher right isn't that what it's

[00:30:11] called?

[00:30:12] You got me.

[00:30:13] I think that's what it's called Taunsher.

[00:30:14] There's a reason for it I can't remember.

[00:30:16] Really?

[00:30:17] There's a practical reason?

[00:30:19] No like a religious reason.

[00:30:21] Oh like the top of the head to get

[00:30:23] you closer to God or something kind of.

[00:30:25] I honestly don't recall I'll have to

[00:30:27] look at I'll have to look that up.

[00:30:29] I do like how this is just

[00:30:31] you know 21st century perspective

[00:30:33] but you do have a little bit of

[00:30:35] like the English think that the

[00:30:37] Japanese are barbarous and the Portuguese

[00:30:39] think you know everyone thinks everyone else is a barbarian

[00:30:41] but to me the 21st century

[00:30:43] viewer it's like you're all just wearing cool

[00:30:45] hats all the time.

[00:30:47] A cool hat for every different occasion.

[00:30:49] What's to complain about?

[00:30:51] Right.

[00:30:53] Next week's episode

[00:30:55] is called Crimson Sky.

[00:30:57] I have my hopes.

[00:30:59] We're getting close to the end here

[00:31:01] I'm not ready to let this one go.

[00:31:03] I'm still questioning whether or not

[00:31:05] they can pack it all in the last two episodes.

[00:31:07] I don't know. We'll see.

[00:31:09] Endings are hard. You know I do think

[00:31:11] there's a lot of shows. There are some

[00:31:13] shows that had such a bad ending in last season

[00:31:15] that it essentially broke the show. I'm looking at you Game of Thrones.

[00:31:17] But then there are other shows

[00:31:19] or even like mini series right?

[00:31:21] Like the first season of Hill House

[00:31:23] I loved a lot.

[00:31:25] But the last 30 minutes it did stick to

[00:31:27] landing and didn't feel like it fit with the rest of it

[00:31:29] but it's like you know okay I'm weighing

[00:31:31] you know nine and a half hours

[00:31:33] of this is really good versus 30 minutes of that was alright.

[00:31:36] Ending is hard.

[00:31:38] This one has a book in a

[00:31:40] previous mini series

[00:31:42] to figure out

[00:31:44] what works, what doesn't.

[00:31:46] Yeah. You gotta be more hopeful I think

[00:31:48] for this one. They've been pretty

[00:31:50] deft so far.

[00:31:52] I just love how I think I said this

[00:31:54] last week too. But I just love the

[00:31:56] aesthetics of it are like you know we're

[00:31:58] gonna take big swings. We're gonna

[00:32:00] have luscious costuming or sets are

[00:32:02] gonna be great. We're just

[00:32:04] gonna go big and

[00:32:06] I'm hope I'm cautiously

[00:32:08] optimistic for the last two episodes

[00:32:10] based on that. Crimson Scouts

[00:32:12] gotta be a visual masterpiece

[00:32:14] you'd think. I hope so

[00:32:16] if they are doing that Game of Thrones

[00:32:18] thing you know where it's like the

[00:32:20] penultimate episode of the season

[00:32:22] was where you get something real good

[00:32:24] and then the last episode is kind of wrap up

[00:32:26] and set up. Sure. Could be

[00:32:28] that kind of episode. I haven't seen

[00:32:30] anything on a second season it is

[00:32:32] a one and done.

[00:32:34] As far as the book goes

[00:32:36] there's what could they do with the

[00:32:38] second season? I don't know yet

[00:32:40] if that's even. Number one it's not

[00:32:42] on the table as far as I know and number two

[00:32:44] I don't know what they even could do yet

[00:32:46] because of the last two episodes.

[00:32:48] Yeah. And I'm not looking into it.

[00:32:50] I've never read the book so I'm just like

[00:32:52] I'll just let it. Do you think

[00:32:54] you're gonna read the book? Probably not.

[00:32:56] Yeah. Kind of got it now.

[00:32:58] Yeah. I mean maybe.

[00:33:00] But probably not.

[00:33:02] As Alabama fans we're certainly

[00:33:04] looking forward to Crimson Sky.

[00:33:06] That's...

[00:33:08] I'll bring my shaker.

[00:33:10] Every time someone gets beheaded

[00:33:12] I'll whisper to myself

[00:33:14] Roll Tide.

[00:33:16] First down Alabama. First down

[00:33:18] Someone gets an arrow right through the eye

[00:33:20] First down.

[00:33:22] And with that

[00:33:24] let's take a break for Station

[00:33:26] identification.

[00:33:28] That's pretty good

[00:33:30] E-Lagol right there. Wow.

[00:33:38] So I only have a few brief

[00:33:40] ideas about the Apple TV Plus show

[00:33:42] Sugar and it's third episode that dropped

[00:33:44] Friday. It's called Shibuya

[00:33:46] Crossing. It's a Japanese term.

[00:33:48] It's the crossing there

[00:33:50] in Japan in Tokyo, right?

[00:33:52] One thing this episode managed to do successfully

[00:33:54] is really leave me wanting more

[00:33:56] these polyglots

[00:33:58] of John Sugar's party who are not

[00:34:00] who they say they are.

[00:34:02] Or at least they're more

[00:34:04] than what they say they are.

[00:34:06] So who are they? I gotta be honest

[00:34:08] they're aliens I guess, right?

[00:34:10] Spies. Alien spies.

[00:34:12] CIA seems too easy as Davey

[00:34:14] figured that out.

[00:34:16] The spoiled nutcase son

[00:34:18] of producer

[00:34:20] Bernie Siegel. Also Ruby

[00:34:22] who seemed to be John Sugar's

[00:34:24] handler in the first two episodes. Now

[00:34:26] it looks more like she's a

[00:34:28] I don't know commander boss.

[00:34:30] Ruby's upstairs room

[00:34:32] looks way too much like a police

[00:34:34] station questioning room. It does not

[00:34:36] look like a house at all. It looks like it could have been built

[00:34:38] with concrete or steel

[00:34:40] rather than just a house

[00:34:42] look. If they are aliens though

[00:34:44] that's a wild turn

[00:34:46] no doubt that's bold

[00:34:48] I do hope

[00:34:50] it's something else. Ruby's line

[00:34:52] that we're just here to observe

[00:34:54] her line about that to

[00:34:56] Sugar, it's just

[00:34:58] too easy to make it's too obvious that was

[00:35:00] one of the worst bits

[00:35:02] of dialogue the show's had so far

[00:35:04] if you want to do a big surprise I would

[00:35:06] think you'd put more effort in how you

[00:35:08] trickle out the clues that one was just on

[00:35:10] the nose. It also

[00:35:12] would make it obvious that Stallings

[00:35:14] this bad guy this thug

[00:35:16] is another alien

[00:35:18] all that said this is why I can't stand a

[00:35:20] headline that leads you in any

[00:35:22] sort of direction to recognize a surprise

[00:35:24] see I was looking for a surprise and here

[00:35:26] here it was

[00:35:28] I had it figured out I'm guessing I've got

[00:35:30] it figured out pretty easily

[00:35:32] I think maybe I should give Alan Sipham

[00:35:34] a bit of a break

[00:35:36] maybe he gets off the hook here because I think Apple

[00:35:38] had announced this show a couple of years

[00:35:40] ago as a sci-fi

[00:35:42] and then it comes out as a

[00:35:44] detective noir in a way

[00:35:46] what a bummer

[00:35:48] alas we'll see if there's any more to this

[00:35:50] maybe I'm wrong you know I do not

[00:35:52] have the fourth episode

[00:35:54] so we'll see

[00:35:56] anyway that's it for this week

[00:35:58] follow the podcast in your

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[00:36:20] YouTube channel taking it down

[00:36:22] on video will be there this Wednesday

[00:36:24] where Raz and I

[00:36:26] discuss the pilot of Twin Peaks

[00:36:28] way back when

[00:36:30] 1990 if you like us let us know

[00:36:32] I'm not asking for a review I don't think

[00:36:34] those do that much good you can do

[00:36:36] that for sure just let us know

[00:36:38] just email us

[00:36:40] hey do the message thing on the website

[00:36:42] where you can leave a voice message that

[00:36:44] be cool that would be a lot of fun actually

[00:36:46] give us some let's play around with that

[00:36:48] I'll talk to everybody next week

[00:36:50] have a great week